Cayeon's Guide on Full Attack Clerics

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  • coriolis
    coriolis Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    Nice guide cayeon. This guide has more of an indepth discussion of game mechanics and formulas then any I've seen yet, thanks for that.

    Do you know of a good website/guide for this game that has more generic info on game formulas/mechanics? I've seen alot of databases but they tend to be shallow when it comes to actually giving out that kind of info.

    thanks
  • oie
    oie Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    awesome guide I just started playing so I didnt really know all these things
    i am planning to make a full attack cleric but until lvl 10 i am going to put all the stat pts in magicalness! (i forget the name for it o.o) lol and nothing else >< and when i have enough moniez and get armor then i add stat pts in something else ... maybe str or dex either one

    i was also thinking about a build with full on magick
    like... an armorless build on pve server
    i dont think that will survive at all most of the time! lol and is probably really expensive but its for fun tee hee
    You seem rather,,, Enthusiastic...
  • spawnlqx
    spawnlqx Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    Well said Cayeon. I understand completely where you're coming from, and no, I didn't mean to offend you with that statement. I asked that because I've known MANY healers that have that problem (they think they always HAVE to help their friends, whether they want to or not). I'm actually questioning my own reasoning behind getting those skills in end game, even if there's nothing else to spend points on. As you said, once you're used to playing a certain style, changing it up that late can be difficult.

    Personally, if I was still around that late, obviously I'm enjoying the build I have, and getting more skills to alter that style wouldn't seem fun. My point though, isn't that it alters the style (build), but merely gives you the option for another. To me, it could be fun to be able to say "I don't feel like nuking things today, I'm gonna go hang out and heal some people in the dungeon". That change of pace could be the difference of early retirement, and exploring another avenue of options.

    Just my personal take and what I would want to do. However, you do have me really wanting to make a cleric now lol. Started with a venomancer instead. I think I want to lvl up an easier class first, so I can fund my cleric to make it easier to level later on =)
  • elsyan2
    elsyan2 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    I guess my only question about this "build" is,that, in the end, won't you be able to max out all skills anyways? If so, to me it seems like your only playing half the class by concentrating only on DD and not botherng with healing or playing support... it'd be like a veno who doesn't bother to use pets.

    If you can't max all skills, well this is a serious mistake and the PWI team, I don't recall any place in game where it told me I can't get everything in my skill tree, it would kinda suck at lvl 100 or so to find out that i cant get this freakin awesome skill b/c i wasted too many points on so low lvl stuff i dont even use.
  • cayeon
    cayeon Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    Good point, spawnlqx. It's entirely up to you if you'd like to skill these heals at 90+, and it's not like you'd have to make the decision right away. Just level up slowly with the build you like, explore the game, talk to other people, PvP - once you reached the higher levels, I'm sure you'll have enough experience to be able to make the right decision that's best for you.

    Oh, and in my opinion, having started out as a venomancer was a good choice. They're very easy to level and usually don't have so much trouble making money as the other classes (they don't really use pots and can solo HH at level 6x). Having them as a back-up is always a good idea, since clerics are rather hard to level at first. Plus, a second character will very much broaden your view of the game, and automatically makes you develop strategies against the various classes in PvP and see where exactly your weaknesses are.

    Good luck, I'm sure you'll enjoy playing as a full attack cleric.


    Coriolis, I'm afraid I can't provide you any guides with explanations of game mechanics and formulas. No one really knows them, let alone use them. There are some posts about it over at the forum of PW-PH (Philippine version), but they're quite difficult to find, and none of them is really all that great. Actually, except for a few ambitious PvPers, most people don't care about them. I think you will eventually find out a lot by yourself as you level, since that's pretty much the only way to really get the hang of things. But if you have any specific questions, don't hesitate to ask me.

    Elsyan2, the answer you're looking for can be found just 4 posts above yours. Maybe you should also re-read the guide itself.
  • levelup
    levelup Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    Thanks for the guide :D. But I have a few questions before I decide to start one. You said leveling will be hard in the beginning. Is it because you have low HP? And are there anymore of these "hell levels"? Second, I'm starting to think that a full attack EP is very similar to a mage. So is a full attack EP stronger than a mage? And finally, you said that you didn't get accepted in a lot of the parties. So is it very difficult to get into a party? Because I don't enjoy grinding alone.Oh and also, am I expected to run into any financial issues? I only have another level 12 WR and I don't think he can provide much assistance. By the way, Im posting this on the MY-EN board also. So just answer on one of them.
  • thundercrash
    thundercrash Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    I am brand new to this game and have started playing with my friends about a day ago, and was pretty bummed to find out the only class we were lacking out of our group for that time was cleric, and of course, I wanted to be different but the supporting role isn't my style either. So, I was very much enthralled to find your guide, and have become truly inspired to become a Full Attack Cleric.

    I am not very familiar with the game, but my question is, why would you max the single buffs if the group buffs do the same exact thing but can also help out your allies as well as yourself? Unless I'm mistaken that the effect of the single buffs is actually greater than the group buffs, and also probably has a lower level requirement?

    Also, I'm unclear from reading the guide on what my equipment should focus on, +hp or +MAG, or Critical percentage? From what I understand, Hp is recommended for early levels until the higher MAG increases the damage greatly. But, the critical percentage is better than the MAG until much, much later because the percentage outweighs any amount of MAG you'll be able to find in one piece of equip.
  • cayeon
    cayeon Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    In the beginning, leveling will always be very hard for a cleric. Not necessarily because of your HP, but rather because of your low physical defense and your rather short attack range. At level 1, Plume Shot goes over 18.4 meters, while at level 10, you can stand 26.5 meters away, which makes a huge difference. In the higher levels, you'll be standing far enough to kill, or almost kill, the mob before it can reach you, but in the lower levels, you'll take a few more hits, especially at ranged physical mobs like Werewolven Marksmen and the Quillhogs (no idea what they're called in PW-INT). Many people get desperate in these levels and put some VIT, but that won't make any difference at all.

    Once you passed this early stage (level 1-30), you will see that you won't have any difficulties to survive. Clerics get better over time, so no, there won't be any such 'hell levels' anymore.

    I think you can compare a cleric to a wizard in terms of raw damage. It's about the same, except that a wizard has a wider offensive skill array to choose from. Other than that, wizards are inferior to clerics in pretty much every aspect. Clerics can buff, heal, debuff (sleep, paralyze, defense debuffs), decrease their physical damage taken to only 20% by putting up plume shell, and attack physically instead of only magically - all of which wizards are not capable of. Hence wizards are one of the weakest classes in the game, with the smallest overall usability, and generally the worst PvP capabilities. So yes, clerics are much 'stronger' than wizards.

    Until level 60+ maybe, you're almost always going to grind alone, no matter which build or class you are. Except for AoE, the real grinding parties don't start until 75+ at the butterflies west of Dream Weaver Port. Before that, parties are only for FB and HH really. I did indeed have some difficulties getting into them, but not more so than any archer or wizard. That's just because there is always a lack of healers and tanks, and a surplus of damage dealers. But don't worry, if you have a good guild or some friends, you'll have no problem getting into the parties.

    Financial issues, yes. Clerics are the most expensive class to level, but luckily you're not going to heal, so it should not be exactly as bad as support clerics. Still, be prepared to sometimes consume 100k + worth of pots if you're going to FB/HH. For this, you can refer to the MP management section of my guide. Other than for MP, you won't spend any more money than other classes.

    About your questions, thundercrash: To unlock the party buffs, you'll have to max its corresponding single buff first. They don't have any different effects, except that they affect the whole party of course, and they max already at level 1. But since you already have the single buffs, there is no need to get the party buffs anymore.

    You've understood correctly that HP is more recommended in the lower levels, and will be switched to + MAG / + critical later. This is because critical and MAG almost don't make a difference until 40+, but they're getting more effective over the levels. VIT/HP in contrast, always add the same value. But in the end, those are just recommendations based on these facts - it's still your choice when to go with which bonus stat. While you're playing, you'll easily find out what you need most.
  • tbbp
    tbbp Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    Have my babies.

    I deleted and remade my Level 20 cleric just to do this.
    So you better have them ;)
  • levelup
    levelup Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    Thanks cayeon for your answers. I now know what to expect. I made a cleric just now and I realized that when I am casting an attack and a monster hits me, sometimes it will say "Your attack has been intercepted" and my attack just stops. So does that mean I have to kite in order to not get hit?
  • andyboi
    andyboi Posts: 83 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    thanks for the great guide, im going to be one of these. but anyway, i looked through your skills section and didn't see anything on plume shell. since its a life-saving ability i thought I would invest a little in it. However, looking through your experiences section, it says you maxed plume shell at level 5x. So does that mean you recommend getting plume shell all the way? (ie: plume shell is spell that partially converts the damage you receive to mana instead of hp)

    another question, what did you do for your armors/jewelry between level 20-40? Im not doing so well trying to solo my quests at lv19. I can't get spirit's gift yet and my tailor/blacksmith skills are minimal. should i spend some time crafting better gear?

    and also, do you happen to know the formula for correlating physical resist and damage reduction? ie: 3000 physical resist = 30% dmg reduction. but another 1000 physical resist would not give you another 10% dmg reduction.

    Thanks for your help!
  • logestics
    logestics Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    Plume Shell is an ineffective use of SP since the idea is to kill things BEFORE they hit you.
  • cayeon
    cayeon Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    Plume Shell is one of the first skills you should max, preferably in your 50s. Not so much for PvE, but for PvP. It's the skill that makes you so strong against physical characters, because you're pretty much invincible for them during its uptime. Even in PvE, it has some use; mainly to escape death if you pull aggro during an FB, which will happen a lot since you're the highest damage dealer. But you're right, looks like I didn't mention it in the skill section itself. Thanks for pointing that out, I guess I'll add some notes about it in the next days.

    The only way to never get hit in the lower levels is, as levelup said, by kiting. It takes some time to do, but that's your only option if you want to be 100% safe. At least, that's how I got through the horror levels of 16-20. Slow the mob by using cyclone, run a few meters, and attack with cyclone again. Once cyclone/plume shot approaches level 10 and INT really starts kicking in, your cleric will very soon become one of the best soloers. The ''attack has been intercepted'' message is indeed annoying, but you'll get it less in the higher levels, because you just get hit less.

    Crafting in Perfect World is, in my opinion, a waste. The stars and bonus stats on your crafted equipment will be random, so you'll need many tries before getting anything useful. Looking at how much the mats cost in MY-EN, simply buying your desired equipment will be much cheaper. In the levels 20-40, I spent most of my money on good +HP equip with grade 4 HP soulstones. Jewelry was always physical, also HP enhanced.

    If I took the time, I'd probably find out the formula for the defense reduction, but right now, I'm overloaded with work. I can only tell you that it has diminishing returns, and the defense value itself is not the only factor for it. I'm quite sure your level also plays a role in there. Still, as of now, I can't confirm anything. The best way to decide between HP and physical defense is just to see which one would hold off more hits. As I stated earlier in this thread:

    For example, if you have 1000 HP, 1% reduction will be just as effective as 10 HP.
  • onycho14
    onycho14 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    First off, I would love to say GREAT guide.

    I started off as a blademaster but saw your guide and immediately made a cleric. This is the kind of toon that I'm always looking for. Buffing/Debuffing/Healing/ATTACK. A well rounded toon that takes thought to play and not just button spamming in PvP.

    With all the said, I'm running into the same problems you've described. "What? You're a cleric..you heal." or "Just heal and you can restat when you get to 90". People trying to tell me how to play my toon and what I should be doing. I've told them flat out, think of me as a Metal Mage, NOT a cleric. Funny thing, even though I outdamage HM my level, I was told by someone that if they wanted a mage they'd take a mage not me. I give that pass cause the person has a 72 HM on PW-MY....BIAS! :p

    Earlier levels passed easier due to using Heiros/charms. They made life a LOT easier. Especially since at this early point in the server's life there's not a lot of equipment to buy from. I'm glad about the information about plume shell cause there wasn't information about it in the guide and it's very useful to have.

    Also, there are quite a lot of people trying to half-**** follow your guide because they're doing 1/2 healer 1/2 damage dealer and when parties complain they can't heal worth a damn, they say "But I'm a DD not a healer" and they're not even close to being full-attack clerics. For those of you that are full-attack..make VERY sure that people know you are NOT a healer. If your guild asks for a EP for a FB, don't respond. You're not an EP, your an MM. Period.

    It's a hard road to follow, you get **** from everyone, but I have to say this class is one of the most fun that I've played in...forever. It's great watching people be surprised when I 3 and 4 shot mobs my level (33 atm) or do 2.6K crits. Gotta love it! :D
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Onychomys - Level 3x Metal Mage
  • andyboi
    andyboi Posts: 83 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    Thanks for the great tips! I messed up here and there with the skills but more or less I'm on track! It is really a pain though for FB. People recruit me into the group and find out im not a healing cleric and I get kicked..."Why would we want an attacking cleric when we could get a mage or blademaster?" On that note, anyone wanna help me out for FB19?
  • onycho14
    onycho14 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    andyboi wrote: »
    Thanks for the great tips! I messed up here and there with the skills but more or less I'm on track! It is really a pain though for FB. People recruit me into the group and find out im not a healing cleric and I get kicked..."Why would we want an attacking cleric when we could get a mage or blademaster?" On that note, anyone wanna help me out for FB19?

    Why an attacking cleric instead of a mage or blademaster? Because, if you truly are a full attack cleric..not a 1/2 assed one...you outdamage BOTH mage and blademaster, you also have the added ability to play secondary heal to save someone's bacon, you can res the other priest if he/she fooks up and heals too soon and takes aggro. You can also pull aggro with your damage and spam heal yourself/tank the mob until the tank can come get it. Noone else can do this. Later levels you can save groups from wiping by sealing/sleeping extra mobs that were pulled by accident.

    But...to do all of these things, YOU have to know what you're doing. You have to prove yourself. You're an odd build and people will always count it against you until you prove yourself over and over again. How have I proved myself...**** a healer cleric (she thought she was better), **** a HM (he thought he was better), defeated a blademaster (he's my friend but had to prove a point). And likely I will have to keep proving myself..not to myself, but to the people that are going to keep trying to "teach" me that I've made a mistake.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Onychomys - Level 3x Metal Mage
  • livejamie
    livejamie Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    HA: (Rather Hard) Either the pet or the venomancer is going to hit you really hard here. Try healing
    yourself to endure long enough to dish out a few blows, but I doubt you can win here.

    So you're saying, a Heavy Armor Mage Venomancer will likely win in PVP?
  • mudeater
    mudeater Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    Sorry wrong topic
  • cayeon
    cayeon Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    livejamie, it looks like you misunderstood the PvP descriptions. The builds I listed are your own, not the ones of your PvP partner.

    So, the line you quoted meant to say: A heavy armor cleric will likely lose against a mage type WF of no matter which armor. This is just because the WF can always hit you at your weak point, be it physical damage (with her pet) or magical damage (with her own attacks). As heavy armor build, you're defenseless against magic attacks, while as magic robe build you can make up for your weakness against physical attacks by putting up plume shell. If you're interested in more detailed PvP tactics of a Full Attack Cleric against a venomancer, just PM me and I'll gladly answer your questions.

    Oh, and onycho14, I couldn't have said it better. It makes me so proud to see more 100% Full Attack Clerics here, instead of like you said, all the ''1/2 assed ones''. When you're no good healer, it's easy to say you're Full Attack as an excuse, but Full Attack is so much more than not being able to heal. I think it's pretty much from these 'failed healers' where the bad reputation of Full Attack comes from, and that's why everybody immediately thinks a non-healing cleric doesn't know what he's doing. Due to this bias, it's always very hard at the beginning to explain your build to people, but once they see what you're made of, they wish they made a Full Attack Cleric themselves. It's just so much more satisfying to play a very special class and then even beating everyone else with it, than just follow the standard path and become a copy of thousands of other people. Keep up the good work, onycho14 =)
  • delta101
    delta101 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    Im a full attack cleric, i love my class but, im heading towards the harder levels, I'm lvl 27 and i cant find any good places to solo, i do my quests but sometimes its just not enough. Does anyone think they could help me out with a quick monster leveling guide? =] would be muchly appricated :)

    Thanks!!
  • aetherius
    aetherius Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    Check your PMs when you have a chance Cayeon :D.

    Thanks for all of the work you put into this ~
  • cayeon
    cayeon Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    At level 27, you normally don't have to rely on grinding yet. Your quests should run out somewhere in your late 30s, and from then on, grinding will gradually take over. As you can see, chapter 6 ''Where and how to level'' in my guide indicates the specific mobs at which you can level after your quests don't give you 100% anymore.

    But, in case you really have to grind before then, I suggest you take a look at these sites to help you find a good place:

    http://www.pwdatabase.com/

    http://pw.rob-soft.com/m1in.php

    You can search the mobs by specific criteria, and check the coordinates where you can find them ingame.


    PS: Thank you dvorak for the sticky!
  • Fisyr - Heavens Tear
    Fisyr - Heavens Tear Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    I made a Cleric when I started about a week ago, and have been making it pure MAG with enough STR for my armor and weapons, however I messed up a little. I have Blessing of the Purehearted at the highest I can for my level. I think it is at Level 4 or 5, And I do not have Ironheart Blessing. I have Thunderball Level 1, Plume Shot and Cyclone at the highest I can for my level, and Vanguard Spirit and Plume Shell at the highest I can for my level.

    I'm new, only Level 17, but I don't want to re-make my character. So, my plan is to just go on the way I have, and follow your guide and reserve SP for the skills you recommend.

    I just want an opinion. Would this be a good idea? Or did I completely mess up my Full Attack Cleric by leveling Blessing of the Purehearted? Also, should I get Ironheart Blessing now or wait till a higher level?

    I PM'ed this to you, Cayeon, but I figured I'd post it also =) Hopefully you can get back to me, I would appreciate it!
  • heaven123
    heaven123 Posts: 55 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    Well, I'm going to try this out, I don't have much time to play a whole bunch so I'd end up soloing most of the time anyway, I was just curious since you do have ironheart healing whatever leveled out, would it be easier to level it a bit quicker to solo better and play as a secondary healer tad bit earlier? or do the skill points not work out?

    btw, what you think about the skill to make you fly faster?


    Just some food for thought though:

    1. I like this concept, but it also made me think also what I'm thinking is that this is a fatal flaw by the developers, because logic says, clerics shouldn't out-damage when it comes to ranged magical attacks.

    2. My logic might be wrong, but I'm still new to the game.... wouldn't a "support cleric" be able to do this in the very end? Since all clerics can max out all their skills, they're going to end up having the same skills and possibly the same stats (or restated).

    3. Also I've been told a vit cleric is hard to kill in pvp due to 8K life and the spell that reduces 80% damage. But that's a completely different concept and I wont get into that.
  • heaven123
    heaven123 Posts: 55 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    I made a Cleric when I started about a week ago, and have been making it pure MAG with enough STR for my armor and weapons, however I messed up a little. I have Blessing of the Purehearted at the highest I can for my level. I think it is at Level 4 or 5, And I do not have Ironheart Blessing. I have Thunderball Level 1, Plume Shot and Cyclone at the highest I can for my level, and Vanguard Spirit and Plume Shell at the highest I can for my level.

    I'm new, only Level 17, but I don't want to re-make my character. So, my plan is to just go on the way I have, and follow your guide and reserve SP for the skills you recommend.

    I just want an opinion. Would this be a good idea? Or did I completely mess up my Full Attack Cleric by leveling Blessing of the Purehearted? Also, should I get Ironheart Blessing now or wait till a higher level?

    I PM'ed this to you, Cayeon, but I figured I'd post it also =) Hopefully you can get back to me, I would appreciate it!

    Isn't that first heal spell worthless, even to support clerics?
  • cayeon
    cayeon Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    Fisyr, personally, I'd start over. Even though it may hurt, a Full Attack Cleric should not level his heals, especially not Blessing of the Purehearted. Leveling to 17 again usually won't take more than a day, if you already know what to do.

    But well, if that's really not an option for you, let Blessing of the Purehearted at the level it is now, and concentrate on your offensive skills. Thunderball isn't needed until 60+, but the rest of your skills look fine. Make sure you keep Cyclone and Plume Shot at the maximum, and if possible, Vanguard Spirit and Plume Shell as well.

    Ironheart Blessing is the only heal that a Full Attack Cleric could consider leveling. Until level 60 or so, you can heal yourself just fine with pots and Wellspring Surge level 1 (required for Purify), but once you maxed your offensive spells and have some surplus SP, Ironheart Blessing can be a pretty useful skill to have. In it can save you lots of HP pots and enables you to regenerate yourself while attacking.


    heaven123,
    If you're really looking forward to play as secondary healer in parties, I'm not very sure if a Full Attack Cleric is the right class to play for you.

    A Full Attack Cleric will always act as damage dealer in the parties, except when they see that the other clerics' heals can't keep up - then they may throw in some Ironheart Blessing once in a while, but that's it. Leveling Ironheart Blessing as Full Attack is only for convenience in PvP/PvE so you don't have to use HP pots, and can solo some bosses where a hiero might otherwise be required.

    The skills points sure do work out, but the earlier you level support skills, the more focus you draw away from your Full Attack build. Even in the later levels, I'd recommend to stay away from all heals except Ironheart Blessing (and maybe Wellspring Surge as quick emergency heal in PvP), so you don't end up being a supporter.

    The flight mastery skill isn't worth leveling, in my opinion. As you know, it only works with the white wings, which you won't use forever. As soon as you can afford it, you'll probably buy some of the faster cash shop wings, so all SP you put into flight mastery will be wasted.

    About your food for thought:
    1. I like this concept, but it also made me think also what I'm thinking is that this is a fatal flaw by the developers, because logic says, clerics shouldn't out-damage when it comes to ranged magical attacks.
    Indeed. Clerics are, compared to the other classes, much more powerful here than in most games. In my opinion though, the developers wanted to enable the players to make a Full Attack build as well, instead of just the possibility of support. This game lacks a ''monk''-like class; and that's probably why clerics are so versatile in all aspects. Another to point to consider is that wizards are seriously underpowered here. They're pretty much the worst class overall, and can be replaced by any other class in all circumstances. Maybe it's this comparison with the wizards that makes clerics appear so strong.
    2. My logic might be wrong, but I'm still new to the game.... wouldn't a "support cleric" be able to do this in the very end? Since all clerics can max out all their skills, they're going to end up having the same skills and possibly the same stats (or restated).

    Theoretically, yes. Practically, almost impossible. There are several reasons for this:

    1. Lack of experience: If you've always supported, you have no idea how to play Full Attack. It may sound easy, but very few people can actually handle such a build appropriately. The experience through all the earlier levels in PvP as well as PvE is invaluable if you truly want to succeed in this game. Imagine it like this: Converting a support cleric into an attack cleric, and vice versa, is like buying a high level character from another player and expect to be equally good at it.

    2. Your heals: As support cleric, you still have all your heals from the earlier levels, including the useless ones; or rather, in my opinion, detrimental ones. As long as you can heal, you're expected to do it. It will be very difficult to deny the healer role and try to get into a party as DPS once you have those heals.

    3. Your mentality: If you've been a healing slave for so many levels, a fundamental change in mentality would have to happen to be able to go Full Attack. Everyone you know will still always beg you for resurrection, ask to heal in parties, help with whatever FB/HH, etc. Would you really decline these offers all of a sudden? Would you really be able to think away from the ''cleric = healer'' dogma? Would you really go for equipment that might increase your attacking capabilities, but lower your healing capabilities?

    4. Play the class you like: If you like to support, go for it, a Full Attack build isn't for everyone. You should enjoy your build over all levels, not just go for one particular build for reasons like faster leveling or more opportunities to get into parties and then try to reach the high level as soon as possible to finally be able to fully play your desired build.

    As you can see, a Full Attack build is so much more than just skills and stats.
    3. Also I've been told a vit cleric is hard to kill in pvp due to 8K life and the spell that reduces 80% damage. But that's a completely different concept and I wont get into that.

    Reaching 8k HP is almost impossible for a cleric, no matter which build you are. Even if you were Pure VIT, you'd barely have 2k HP more than a Pure MAG at level 105, which is, at that level, pretty much irrelevant compared to what you can get from your equipment. To get 8k HP, you'd have to upgrade your equip like mad, and add ultra high grade HP soulstones wherever you can. I wouldn't get my hopes up for this unless I planned to invest a great deal of real money into this game.

    Since they don't die so easily, VIT clerics are quite good in parties as healers, but in PvP, their lack of damage will be a burden to them. Especially in the higher levels, due to the exponential increase of m.attack you get from MAG, a pure MAG build should probably defeat the pure VIT builds in duels. VIT builds might only have an advantage in Territorial Wars, when you get attacked by multiple people from all sides.
  • Caiyue - Heavens Tear
    Caiyue - Heavens Tear Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    The skills points sure do work out, but the earlier you level support skills, the more focus you draw away from your Full Attack build. Even in the later levels, I'd recommend to stay away from all heals except Ironheart Blessing (and maybe Wellspring Surge as quick emergency heal in PvP), so you don't end up being a supporter.
    I'm usually soloing, so I doubt there's much chance of me becoming a supporter. Should I level my heals then, and if so at what level could I do so without sacrificing any offensive power? I find that I am still doing fairly well at the moment (level 32) with just level 1 Ironheart Blessing and level 2 Wellspring Surge, except when I accidentally draw too much aggro, but I don't know if they would still be enough as I get to higher levels.
  • heaven123
    heaven123 Posts: 55 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    cayeon wrote: »
    heaven123,
    If you're really looking forward to play as secondary healer in parties, I'm not very sure if a Full Attack Cleric is the right class to play for you.

    A Full Attack Cleric will always act as damage dealer in the parties, except when they see that the other clerics' heals can't keep up - then they may throw in some Ironheart Blessing once in a while, but that's it. Leveling Ironheart Blessing as Full Attack is only for convenience in PvP/PvE so you don't have to use HP pots, and can solo some bosses where a hiero might otherwise be required.

    The skills points sure do work out, but the earlier you level support skills, the more focus you draw away from your Full Attack build. Even in the later levels, I'd recommend to stay away from all heals except Ironheart Blessing (and maybe Wellspring Surge as quick emergency heal in PvP), so you don't end up being a supporter.

    Let me rephrase what I meant. All I was going to get was Ironheart Blessing, and Wellspring Surge, that's underleveled, (only enough to keep myself alive while soloing and pvping).

    I'm following your guild because it seems optimal for soloing (my main reason for choosing this build) My mentality is, if it's not used for soloing purposes, I'm not getting it. Single target heals (for me) falls under "helps me solo" category. Wouldn't these two skills be enough to be a secondary healer, or am I missing something?
  • cayeon
    cayeon Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    It's a quite complicated issue. Let me explain.

    Not in all cases can you be a secondary supporter with only Ironheart Blessing or Wellspring Surge. I've been in numerous dungeons where it was just required that both clerics had a party heal / blue bubble / maxed purify, which I had not. This ''secondary supporter'' thing goes only to a certain extent, and in many cases, 2 real ''support clerics'' are needed. Secondary supporter means, in many cases, playing the healer, and then people want you to skill all other heals as well.

    As long as the ''helps you solo'' heals like Ironheart Blessing doesn't take away offensive power or PvP potential, I guess it's alright to level it a bit earlier, but it's not going to help much in regard of getting into parties.

    Personally, I feel that 60+ was the right time to start leveling Ironheart Blessing (because of the level 60+ metal mobs), and at level 83, I still haven't touched Wellspring Surge. Instead, I kept the debuffs at a much higher priority, for optimal PvP performance. But yes, that might not be the case for everyone. This guide is just meant as a general guideline, so if you like to skill Ironheart Blessing or Wellspring Surge earlier, by all means, go for it. The only danger is, as I said, to go into parties as ''secondary supporter'', and then end up having people ask you to skill all the other heals as well, for better performance in your supporter role.

    I found that grinding in the lower levels was much harder than in the higher levels actually. Even as pure MAG, you'll have so much HP in the higher levels, that you rarely get into situations where you get below 1/2 of your health. Still, it's absolutely true that single heals are convenient. So, just level them when you feel okay with them, you'll probably eventually max Ironheart Blessing anyway. Just make sure you don't touch these: Blessing of the Purehearted, Revive, Soon the Light, Stream of Rejuvenation, Regeneration Aura and Heaven's Wrath.

    Hope that clears it up a little.
  • riyuko
    riyuko Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    Very nice guide. I looked it over a bit and I think an attack cleric might work for what I want in a character, yet I still need to ask...

    In my MMORPG's, I like several different kinds of character archetypes (and play most of them rather well). However, one of the most fun things for me to do is find a build that acts as a decent-good supporter in PvE, while still being highly effective at PvP play.

    Lemme give an example: In Rappelz Epic 4, the Druid was my favorite class. (Not gonna touch on the other epics since they're irrelevant to my point). I enjoyed that class a lot, because I was able to train decent HoT spells and debuffs/stuns to protect my dungeon parties (not as primary healer obviously), as well as good buffs for myself and others. That was the PvE side. Once I shifted my mindset for PvP, I was able to take on almost any class with great success in a 1v1 fight, by learning to time my holds/stuns, learning when to heal myself, and when to dish out the damage. That being said, I could shift my mindset from PvE to PvP in an instant because I was a good player at both.

    ~Back to PW~
    Anyways, the reason I bother mentioning all that is this: I like being able to support in PvE (at least decently, if not well), while still being fearful in PvP fights. So my question comes down to this: If I'm attempting to be a decent supporter for PvE and a strong PvPer, how well will this build work for me? I'm brand new to PW so I don't have nearly enough experience to be able to adequately judge this for myself yet.

    ~Don't misunderstand; I love PvP, and am not in any way opposed to being a full DPS cleric, however if possible I'd still like to be able to support decently. I guess I may be asking if there's a sufficient way to have the PvP'ing ability of your full attack build (or close to it) without sacrificing every last ounce of support power.
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