End of the "Which Golem has better stats" Debate

bron
bron Posts: 0 Arc User
edited March 2010 in Venomancer
Seriously, I'm tired of people dissing Crystals, saying they are weaker. I'm here to say to those people very simply, you are wrong, and I have undeniable proof. This is an experiment I conducted on MY-EN.

The following screens were with a Guildie (When I was still in a guild), Kayler. I decided to post them up after I came back after a night of vending Crystal eggs, and scrolled through the text while I was afk. DJ_bunny was asking which is the Elite Golem, and nobody answered. I asked her, and she told me she got a Rime. I explained to her that just because monster is elite when caught doesn't mean it will be elite when a a PetEgg/Pet. Costs totaled 14,800 for Oils to max Loyalty on both. Also 200g to make a Rime out of an egg, then egg it again afterwards. So 15k to conduct this experiment yourself, not counting travel fees and if you wanna buy eggs or catch them yourself.

I'm pretty sure that losing Loyalty on the Crystal down to 1 is the same as having a Rime at 1 when newly caught, but Kayler said it wold be better to have them at max, so I did.

Both are at level 18. Conveniently, my Fox was 18 at the time too.

pic1mq1.jpg
Crystal stats at 999 Loyalty.

pic2ip5.jpg
Crystal proving it has 999 Loyalty. There is sometimes a 1 point difference in Detail stats and Portrait stats. If you think this is fake, by all means, conduct this experiment yourself.

pic3ny3.jpg
Rime stats at 999 Loyalty.

pic4ee3.jpg
Rime proving it has 999 Loyalty. There is sometimes a 1 point difference in Detail stats and Portrait stats. If you think this is fake, by all means, conduct this experiment yourself.

It costs less to buy Crystal at first because it's lower level with less skills, but more to get it the Crustaceous skill. It has better stats than Rime, but costs more eventually to have the same skills. Rime is for people who want to be cheap. They still come out weaker at the end.

So to conclude, good luck, have fun, and don't get weak pets if you don't have to. :D

Notes:
Source, as you can see it's mine.

The Golems might not have the same names here. Since I can't play yet, I will need people to tell me the names of them.

wabbit gives nice directions on where to find these:
wabbitt wrote: »
You need t go to etherblade and then what used to be called "ground of logging" in PW-MY. This is the small village to the NE of ethersword.
You take the eastern entrace out of ethersword, then follow the path NE (dont cross the bridge) and then north.
You will come across a path heading east. Follow that and you will find the village, and the golems spawn all around there.

They are level 17, so dont waste tyour time going up there before that.
There are also "elite" golems that wander around further to the west. These have similar stats when they are tamed (they lose their elite status when tamed). Of course taming an elite pet is much harder.
Proud Pre-Launch CO and Pre-Launch STO Lifetime Subscriber.
Post edited by bron on
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Comments

  • nafal
    nafal Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    good for you?
  • kosmos
    kosmos Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    bron wrote: »
    Seriously, I'm tired of people dissing Crystals, saying they are weaker. I'm here to say to those people very simply, you are wrong, and I have undeniable proof. This is an experiment I conducted on MY-EN.

    The following screens were with a Guildie (When I was still in a guild), Kayler. I decided to post them up after I came back after a night of vending Crystal eggs, and scrolled through the text while I was afk. DJ_bunny was asking which is the Elite Golem, and nobody answered. I asked her, and she told me she got a Rime. I explained to her that just because monster is elite when caught doesn't mean it will be elite when a a PetEgg/Pet. Costs totaled 14,800 for Oils to max Loyalty on both. Also 200g to make a Rime out of an egg, then egg it again afterwards. So 15k to conduct this experiment yourself, not counting travel fees and if you wanna buy eggs or catch them yourself.

    I'm pretty sure that losing Loyalty on the Crystal down to 1 is the same as having a Rime at 1 when newly caught, but Kayler said it wold be better to have them at max, so I did.

    Both are at level 18. Conveniently, my Fox was 18 at the time too.

    pic1mq1.jpg
    Crystal stats at 999 Loyalty.

    pic2ip5.jpg
    Crystal proving it has 999 Loyalty. There is sometimes a 1 point difference in Detail stats and Portrait stats. If you think this is fake, by all means, conduct this experiment yourself.

    pic3ny3.jpg
    Rime stats at 999 Loyalty.

    pic4ee3.jpg
    Rime proving it has 999 Loyalty. There is sometimes a 1 point difference in Detail stats and Portrait stats. If you think this is fake, by all means, conduct this experiment yourself.

    It costs less to buy Crystal at first because it's lower level with less skills, but more to get it the Crustaceous skill. It has better stats than Rime, but costs more eventually to have the same skills. Rime is for people who want to be cheap. They still come out weaker at the end.

    So to conclude, good luck, have fun, and don't get weak pets if you don't have to. :D

    Notes:
    Source, as you can see it's mine.

    The Golems might not have the same names here. As I don't have a Key, I will need people to tell me the names of them. Crystals are found north of EtherBlade somewhere (Forgot exactly, but Humans encounter them on their leveling route to 20 something), and Rimes (Elite, not easy to fight solo) are outside the Human FB 19 dungeon.

    cool, 1 question tho, where can i tame 1 of these? :confused:
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • bron
    bron Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    Did you read the whole post? Read the whole post from top to bottom please. Those are all the directions I can give, because I don't know the name changes. Ask somebody ingame if these are too vague.

    [offtopic]Wow, you take Xenosaga fandom to another level, using it as your forum name. And I thought I was obcessed.[/offtopic]
    Proud Pre-Launch CO and Pre-Launch STO Lifetime Subscriber.
  • matthew
    matthew Posts: 135 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    kosmos wrote: »
    cool, 1 question tho, where can i tame 1 of these? :confused:

    Timberfield, northeast of Etherblade.
  • senovit
    senovit Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    There was a debate? I thought everyone always knew the lower level version of the same pet has better battle stats, while the higher level versions have more speed/skills >.>
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • bron
    bron Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    Yea there was, and I always saw people on MY telling others to get a Rime. People blindly insist that Rime is better so I made this test to prove them wrong.
    Proud Pre-Launch CO and Pre-Launch STO Lifetime Subscriber.
  • lady69
    lady69 Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    bron wrote: »
    Seriously, I'm tired of people dissing Crystals, saying they are weaker. I'm here to say to those people very simply, you are wrong, and I have undeniable proof. This is an experiment I conducted on MY-EN.

    The following screens were with a Guildie (When I was still in a guild), Kayler. I decided to post them up after I came back after a night of vending Crystal eggs, and scrolled through the text while I was afk. DJ_bunny was asking which is the Elite Golem, and nobody answered. I asked her, and she told me she got a Rime. I explained to her that just because monster is elite when caught doesn't mean it will be elite when a a PetEgg/Pet. Costs totaled 14,800 for Oils to max Loyalty on both. Also 200g to make a Rime out of an egg, then egg it again afterwards. So 15k to conduct this experiment yourself, not counting travel fees and if you wanna buy eggs or catch them yourself.

    I'm pretty sure that losing Loyalty on the Crystal down to 1 is the same as having a Rime at 1 when newly caught, but Kayler said it wold be better to have them at max, so I did.

    Both are at level 18. Conveniently, my Fox was 18 at the time too.

    pic1mq1.jpg
    Crystal stats at 999 Loyalty.

    pic2ip5.jpg
    Crystal proving it has 999 Loyalty. There is sometimes a 1 point difference in Detail stats and Portrait stats. If you think this is fake, by all means, conduct this experiment yourself.

    pic3ny3.jpg
    Rime stats at 999 Loyalty.

    pic4ee3.jpg
    Rime proving it has 999 Loyalty. There is sometimes a 1 point difference in Detail stats and Portrait stats. If you think this is fake, by all means, conduct this experiment yourself.

    It costs less to buy Crystal at first because it's lower level with less skills, but more to get it the Crustaceous skill. It has better stats than Rime, but costs more eventually to have the same skills. Rime is for people who want to be cheap. They still come out weaker at the end.

    So to conclude, good luck, have fun, and don't get weak pets if you don't have to. :D

    Notes:
    Source, as you can see it's mine.

    The Golems might not have the same names here. Since I can't play yet, I will need people to tell me the names of them. Crystals are found north of EtherBlade somewhere (Forgot exactly, but Humans encounter them on their leveling route to 20 something), and Rimes (Elite, not easy to fight solo) are outside the Human FB 19 dungeon.


    i leveled them to the same lvl and and i look the carateristics christaline magmite is 1000 better!!!
  • bron
    bron Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    Another satisfied player. Yay.
    Proud Pre-Launch CO and Pre-Launch STO Lifetime Subscriber.
  • wabbitt
    wabbitt Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    Level 1 beetle > all, but it doesn't come with bash.
  • bron
    bron Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    It doesan't tank as well, or you'd be seeing everybody with a beetle. Mind if put your golem directions into this thread from the other one, wabbit? Credit given of course.

    I can't give less vague directions, because the names here are different, and your's are for MY also, but eh.
    Proud Pre-Launch CO and Pre-Launch STO Lifetime Subscriber.
  • senovit
    senovit Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    Beetle tanks just as well as the golem, and slightly better against magic bosses. However, its attack sucks, and no one wants to spend that long on bosses or be unable to hold aggro.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • wabbitt
    wabbitt Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    I levelled a lvl 2 beetle up to 17 and compared it against the golem in MY-EN.
    Its attack was lower, but factoring the .8 attackspeed against the golems .6, and its higher accuracy, I judged the beetle to probably be higher dps.
    One thing which might mess that up is the decreased damage of bash, since that is calculated off the attack, which may put the beetle slightly below. Im not sure.

    As to physical defense, the beetle wasnt quite as high, but it had significantly more hit points, and significantly higher dodge, so I suspect it is the better tank. Its magic resist is a lot higher than the golem.

    The beetle is slightly slower, so maybe not quite so good for pulling.

    However this is the level 2 beelte im talking about. I tamed a level 1 beetle yesterday and levelled him up to 2, and compared to the level 2 beetle, and it was quite a lot better. Unfortunately it didnt have bash, and I couldnt find (or afford) the bash skillbook, so I didnt continue with it. Usually the granny in ADC sells them, but they dont seem to be there in this version (?).

    Judging how much better the level 1 beetle was than the 2, I would say its likely to be a lot better than the golem. I intend to run a proper test when OB starts.

    One assumption Im making, and I could be wrong, is that a if pet A is better than pet B at level X, then it will also be better at level Y.
  • senovit
    senovit Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    Do be sure that the beetles are the same types. There are 2 or 3 different kinds of beetles, all with different growth charts. The one I'm thinking of has something like 5 hp growth, 5 pdef growth, 4 mdef growth and 3 attack growth. Golem has I think 5 hp growth, 7 pdef, 2 mdef and 6 attack. These are all off the top of my head so I could be wrong >.>
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • bron
    bron Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    wabbit I went ahead and borrowed your directions. I hope that's ok. I'd like this thread to be a comprehensive Golem comparison, so having directions is a good idea. Since you didn't say no, I guessed it was ok. I could just reformat it myself if you don't want me to use word for word what you said.
    Proud Pre-Launch CO and Pre-Launch STO Lifetime Subscriber.
  • wabbitt
    wabbitt Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    No worries. My works are free of copyright restrictions :)
  • baifang
    baifang Posts: 32 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    Just a quick note Bron to say thank you for the research and picture statistics. Its much appreciated and helped me quite a bit Veno wise.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • aramath
    aramath Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    There doesn't seem to be much of a difference in either of them, with the major exception that one is metal and one is water. I would say get both and use the elemental vulnerabilities to your advantage.
    I are animaniac :D

    mowerman69.deviantart.com
  • kiataro
    kiataro Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    can u tame any animal/monster?
    friend are not meant to be used or tortured,friend are people u share happiness and sadness with


    friends never part, maybe by distance but not by heart

    hope u like what i drew!! (may not come out well cause i have a bad camera if so i am sorry)
  • senovit
    senovit Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    aramath wrote: »
    There doesn't seem to be much of a difference in either of them, with the major exception that one is metal and one is water. I would say get both and use the elemental vulnerabilities to your advantage.
    Elemental properties don't carry over, once it's tamed the pet will have equal magic defense in all elements.
    kiataro wrote: »
    can u tame any animal/monster?
    Only some of them. You'll know if you can tame them if you can see a little green/yellow face next to their name. If they have a red face, they are tameable but are too high level for you to get.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • siari
    siari Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    So is it a safe assumption to say... get a beetle until level 17 and then go golem or whatever? All of these posts have confused me on the matter =\
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • zoefox
    zoefox Posts: 225
    edited September 2008
    I'm not sure which golem is which in this version.
  • senovit
    senovit Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    Just look for the level 17 one rather than the 18.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • zoefox
    zoefox Posts: 225
    edited September 2008
    Maybe if I knew where it is.
  • senovit
    senovit Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    Dunno the name of it in this version, but they're just north of the town northeast of Etherblade. Might be called something related to Logging. It's just east of the giant mountain north of Etherblade, in any case.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • zoefox
    zoefox Posts: 225
    edited September 2008
    I found it before I came back here to check. I remembed where it was in PW-MY.
  • akassa
    akassa Posts: 93 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    Nice info i guess i'll stick with the volcanic one tho
    Thara - Level 32 - Venomancer - Lost City Server
  • adrian
    adrian Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    We made Pet vs. Pet battle of Lavarime vs. lvl 17 Emerald Beetle (no healing, pets only fight each other. Beetle won (thought it could be by a chance). It has lower attack and hp, true. It has no usefull skills, true. However, it has better attack speed, evasion and magic defense. Skills, as opposed to stats, can be learned from books.

    Here are stats of lvl 100 beetle and crystal:
    http://img58.imageshack.us/my.php?image=eieg4.jpg
    http://img58.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gcsa1.jpg

    I'd say they're quite comparable. With additional skills IMO beetle has potential to be a slighty better tank. However, main difference is: you HAVE to buy beetle Flesh Rend or Bash and level this skill up. Otherwise it won't keep aggro. Cash factor is what makes people prefer golem.
  • kailii
    kailii Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    Very interesting discussion so far, not only because i hit level 17 today. ;)

    I was never too fond about getting that golem (whichever!) because the practical problems of using it are not new to me. You can't see past that darn thing blocking your vision, you can't click on anything but your pet because it fills the entire screen - did i mention i played Anarchy Online as an Engineer?

    Anyway, back to business. I took a Quadrastral Beetle for a stroll today. Tamed at level 2 as i could not find a level 1, i leveled it up to to level 10 just now.

    Here are the stats. First the skill name, followed by the level 2 value, followed by the estimated gain per level (in paranthesis). Gain per level is off at times, as it seems to be a rounded value.

    HP 123 (+32-33)
    PDef 123 (+86-87)
    PAtt 76 (+20)
    Hit Speed 0.8
    Damage 17 (+5-6)
    MDef 114 (+80)
    Evade 46 (+12-13)
    Speed 5.6, 5.7 at level 7

    Damage is off a little as i fed my pet too well, the change from 100% to 120% happened somewhere between level 5 and 6 and to my shame i didn't notice it.
    Compared to my favourite pet so far, the Bucktooth Lynxus which i tamed at level 10, the beetle is superior in any way but speed.

    I will post the beetle skills at level 17 here once i get them. From what i experienced today i would say the beetle could rival the golem. At least close enough to get this discussion going. ;)

    See ya in one or two days! :)
  • kailii
    kailii Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    Here we go, level 18 beetle:

    HP 643
    PDef 1510
    PAtt 395
    Hit Speed 0.8
    Damage 166
    MDef 1393
    Evade 241
    Speed 5.8
    (999 Loyalty)

    The golem hits harder and has slightly better physical resistance, while all other stats favor the beetle. As a pure tank the beetle seems the better choice with 10% more HP, 30% more MDef. and 20% higher evades.
    The low DPS limits its use as an all around pet, but when the going gets tough, the beetle should get going instead of the golem. :)

    EDIT: After some more testing today which envolved leveling up all the tamable creatures in the newbie zones i still believe the beetle is the best choice for a tank pet. There is enough room to have a second pet like the bee for DPS without having to grind for pet XP, so i am using both.
    Even if you object the advantages of the beetle, going with one pet only restricts one too much. At "boss breakout" today i only saw golems and nothing but golems, while i pulled out my bee for maximum DPS. I believe we still have a long way to go in any terms.
  • siari
    siari Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    well I guess if the stats say beetle works better as a tank.. why wouldn't more people use it?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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