The Name quality thread

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  • junk
    junk Posts: 209 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    Instead of having huge baww threads complaining about translations, take a second to think why the names are what they are. Why did they come up with such ludicrous, nonsensical names, when they could have went for either a complete westernization or kept the chinese feel.

    And this is why: THIS IS NOT A TRANSLATION. THIS IS A ******N REWRITE.
    Yes. The 'translators' can't ****ing speak chinese. What they did, was go the other way about it. Most f2p ports have translators that can speak koreanchinesewhatever but couldn't spell English to save their lives. Here, we had translators that can speak English, but whoop-de-doo, can't even remotely comprehend Chinese.

    So the names are /random'd. They put in whatever they came up with, based on guesswork. It might be hard to pick up at first, but if you look through all the quest text/skill names/mob names/loot descriptions, you can tell that's not translating work. Have you ever read a doujin (japanese porno cartoon) that just didn't sound right, and you could tell something was amiss? That's the same deal. Peole who can't translate, or who have a limited vocabulary putting in what feels 'right' to them. And here, they did it particularly bad.

    Another reason, is to make their statement that zomg we're totally different from My-en. We're liek completely profesionul n srsbiz. But haha, look at the mob names. Eldergoth Detector instead of Eldergoth Defector (gee what a coincidence, two words that have completely different meanings being coincidentally chosen by two different translators for the same mob name. It's also a coincidence that they differ by a single letter. And while defector makes sense, I doubt there is a Chinese mythical creature called a 'detector'. Unless this is Starcraft or something. But as I said, it's a coincidence. It's not like someone copypasted names from a different version of the game and made a typo because the original had poor fonts. No sir, we're proffesionals here). Pyrogoth instead of Pyrogotholoc. Midnight Jackaleopardite instead of Midnight Jackal. Feel free to find some for yourself. Names that googled yeld nil to none results yet just happened to coincide between the two versions (with minor coincidental differences), when both are translated independently, amirite?

    Quest text is obviously rewritten from My-en because they have the same errors (west instead of east for a particular quest). And they make no sense. They're just spelled properly. We get skill names that have been flipped around (Thunder Wield -> Wield Thunder, Feather Razors -> Razor Feathers), had bits of them changed (Celestial Guard -> Celestial Guardian's Seal). Some of them are /random'd too. Soon, the light? What the hell, is that an ability name? A COMMA IN AN ABILITY NAME? THIS IS NOT POETRY. ABILITY NAMES ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE SENTENCES OR PHRASES.

    And to cover up the fact that they've had their fun and plagiarised another version, they've chosen the most ****tabulous names for cities/classes to make it seem original. It reminds me of those people in my highschool cs class that c/p'd code from eachother and changed variable names, expecting teachers not to pick up on it. Way to treat your userbase like a bunch of ****. Acheivement unlocked: most despicable break of customer trust in f2p history.
  • rev
    rev Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    That is a VERY nasty thing to say about the official USA branch of the company that made the original chinese version. I'm sure they have someone who can translate, cause I've noticed quest text makes a lot more damn sense than in MY-EN. You sir need to get off these forums if all you are going to do is ***** about everything, we aren't really complaining here, we are TRYING to suggest new names for the things in the game that don't sound good or feel right for the rest of the title. Oh and congrats, you just insulted PWE, have a nice day explaining it to them. Anyway let's get back on topic.
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  • junk
    junk Posts: 209 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    rev wrote: »
    That is a VERY nasty thing to say about the official USA branch of the company that made the original chinese version. I'm sure they have someone who can translate, cause I've noticed quest text makes a lot more damn sense than in MY-EN. You sir need to get off these forums if all you are going to do is ***** about everything, we aren't really complaining here, we are TRYING to suggest new names for the things in the game that don't sound good or feel right for the rest of the title. Oh and congrats, you just insulted PWE, have a nice day explaining it to them. Anyway let's get back on topic.

    Yes, it is a VERY nasty thing to say. Because they just did a VERY nasty thing, by all ethical standards.

    As I said, let's take that particular mob: Eldergoth Detector. You might say I'm fixated with it and it's just a name, but it was the first thing that caught my eye. I started playing and I could tell those translations were somehow wrong. They were well written and coherent but something was definately wrong. When I saw that mob, it hit me. They were rewrites.

    Give me answers to these questions:
    1. What is an Eldergoth? How is a gorilla related to the elder of an European nomadic tribe?
    2. How does the original Chinese mob name translate to Eldergoth?
    3. Why is it a Detector?
    4. How did the amazing coincidence happen with Detector versus Defector? Is the fact that the My-en fonts were bad, and you could easily mistake f for t just a coincidence? It happened to me, at first I thought it was Detector. I flew over the newbie zone sometime in my later levels and realised I read it wrong. Could they have made the same mistake as me when plagiarising My-en text, or is it just a coincidence of cosmical proportions?

    And about your quests, yes they make a bit of sense sometimes. Because they've been rewritten. It takes some effort but you can parse the engrishy text and figure out what they want. They just had to figure out what you had to kill, what you had to loot, and where that would happen. The rest is just fluff.

    You know, I would be fine with a rewrite. If they had told us they want to westernize the mmo and will change names to suit western audiences, I would have been fine. But lying about it when it's blatantly obvious to anyone with a 2 digit IQ is despicable. Yes, I will get off these forums. There's no arguing with a company that pulls something like that. Have fun making suggestions nobody will care about. Also, enjoy your CS prices. This company is just as bad as any other. Much worse, even.
  • blueparrot
    blueparrot Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    junk wrote: »
    Give me answers to these questions:
    1. What is an Eldergoth? How is a gorilla related to the elder of an European nomadic tribe?
    2. How does the original Chinese mob name translate to Eldergoth?
    3. Why is it a Detector?
    4. How did the amazing coincidence happen with Detector versus Defector? Is the fact that the My-en fonts were bad, and you could easily mistake f for t just a coincidence? It happened to me, at first I thought it was Detector. I flew over the newbie zone sometime in my later levels and realised I read it wrong. Could they have made the same mistake as me when plagiarising My-en text, or is it just a coincidence of cosmical proportions?

    This is the original Chinese name for eldergoth detector:

    長蠻探子

    Literal meaning: old savage explorer

    So eldergoth detector is actually a fairly straightfoward translation of the original name: old -> elder, savage -> goth (remember that gothic races were considered barbaric), explorer -> detector.
  • ragingwind
    ragingwind Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    blueparrot wrote: »
    This is the original Chinese name for eldergoth detector:

    長蠻探子

    Literal meaning: old savage explorer

    So eldergoth detector is actually a fairly straightfoward translation of the original name: old -> elder, savage -> goth (remember that gothic races were considered barbaric), explorer -> detector.
    I agree with your logic until "explorer -> detector." Nope, that one doesn't make much sense. It's like someone who doesn't know English very well looked it up in a dictionary. "Detector" could be seen as having similarities to "explorer," but it's a very vague comparison. Other words would have been much better matches for it (like explorer >_>). This kind of poor translation is a good example of the other kinds of quirky things in the game. They did a good job with the text but a poor job with names. I'm left scratching my head trying to figure out how they decided to use most of them.
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  • blueparrot
    blueparrot Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    ragingwind wrote: »
    I agree with your logic until "explorer -> detector." Nope, that one doesn't make much sense. It's like someone who doesn't know English very well looked it up in a dictionary. "Detector" could be seen as having similarities to "explorer," but it's a very vague comparison. Other words would have been much better matches for it (like explorer >_>). This kind of poor translation is a good example of the other kinds of quirky things in the game. They did a good job with the text but a poor job with names. I'm left scratching my head trying to figure out how they decided to use most of them.


    Hmm.... actually the explorer -> detector thing was not bad IMO. When I said 'explorer' I was trying to find the closest English equivalent to the Chinese word, but as you probably know, there's no such thing as an exact equivalent. The original word actually does have the nuance of 'detecting' things - the same character used in a different context can mean detective.

    But I agree with most people here that the translations suck. They're done by people who can write grammatical English but not idiomatic English (i.e. the translations don't sound natural). And 'Archosaur' is about the craziest thing I've heard. I personally prefer Ancestral Dragon City, which would be a pretty close match to the original name.
  • ragingwind
    ragingwind Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    blueparrot wrote: »
    Hmm.... actually the explorer -> detector thing was not bad IMO. When I said 'explorer' I was trying to find the closest English equivalent to the Chinese word, but as you probably know, there's no such thing as an exact equivalent. The original word actually does have the nuance of 'detecting' things - the same character used in a different context can mean detective.

    But I agree with most people here that the translations suck. They're done by people who can write grammatical English but not idiomatic English (i.e. the translations don't sound natural). And 'Archosaur' is about the craziest thing I've heard. I personally prefer Ancestral Dragon City, which would be a pretty close match to the original name.

    Okay, I think we're on the same page, now. I don't actually know any Asian languages, so I was just going on what you wrote. My perspective is from knowing English really well. When I see Eldergoth Detector on the screen, I simply wonder how they possibly thought that was a good name to use. It's like you said, they know grammatical English but not idiomatic English. Do they simply not have any pop-culture writers on the translation team? How did they overlook the importance of that?
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  • junk
    junk Posts: 209 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    Ok, so I was wrong. Back on My-en I thought Detector was actually Defector. Why, because it made more sense. Detector belongs in Starcraft, not in a fantasy mmo.

    So what do you know, both My-en and PW:I have the same translation: Eldergoth Detector. And as the mods made it oh-so-obvious, they've been translated independetly. I guess it's just a vast coincidence.
    What about Perfect World Philippines. There, that mob is called a Savage Scout. IMO, that makes tons more sense. And it's the consensus among people who played both My and Ph that Ph has the better translations. I find hard to believe that two translators working independently translated Old Savage Explorer as Eldergoth Detector. Goth and barbarian aren't the same. The huns were barbarians. The vandals were barbarians. The franks were barbarians. Why not an Elderhun Detector? Or why not an Eldergoth Scout or an Eldergoth Explorer or an Eldergoth Sentry or Lookout or Watchman or something that made a bit more sense from a fantasy perspective.
    It's because this version is a My-en rewrite. They rewrote ADC as Archosaur because they figured, well ancient dragon could mean ancient reptile which is what the meaning of archosaur is so let's rewrite it that way. They rewrote Werefox as Venomancer, because it used dots and poison elemental attacks, so that made sense from their point of view. But Eldergoth Detector was nonsensical. Without knowdelege of the original text, they couldn't figure out what the hell that meant. So they left it as it was.

    Take other names: Ph - Thuder Rite, My - Thunder Wield, PWI: Wield Thunder. Do you see a pattern here yet? How about that snake called 'squama'. Let's google 'squama':

    # an area of membrane at the base of the wing, adjacent to the thorax.
    www.wildguideuk.com/glossary_diptera.htm

    # A part arranged like a scale
    www.nio.org/prawns/Gif/GLOSSARY/S.HTM

    # a protective structure resembling a scale
    wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

    So it's a structure somehow like a scale. They got the bright ideea to name a snake exactly that. Let's look at the Ph database. Nope, no squama. Let's look at the My database. What do you know, there's a squama in there. Again, both versions decided on a absurdly inappropriate name, which happens to be the same even though they were worked on separately.

    I could go on like this all day. The pattern is there and anyone that takes up the monster databases from both versions and compares it with ours will find it.

    And they went and claimed they were a better version. Those My-en folks at least put a bit of effort into their work. They took google translate, or whatever they did and tried to translate on their own. They didn't rip off Pw-Ph. PWE went straight in and ninjad their work, changed bits and pieces and claimed it as their own. Well played.

    As for ragingwind's coment, of course they seem out of place, as if they only know gramatical English. Because they're patched up versions of things that didn't make sense to begin with. If you take 'teh bl00 d0g angererly wafflesss bababaloonzz' and fix it to ' The blue dog angrily waffles baloons', you fixed the gramar but it still doesn't make sense. This is what we're dealing with.

    PWE has reached a level of douchebaggery never acheived by any scrub f2p company up to date.

    inb4 ipb&, delete ****ing everything, etc
  • shizo
    shizo Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    Archosaur comes from the Philipino version.... I saw it on a world map.
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  • karmelia
    karmelia Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    ragingwind wrote: »
    . When I see Eldergoth Detector on the screen, I simply wonder how they possibly thought that was a good name to use.

    Scout would probably be more appropriate. You must always do some adaptation when you translate things. A littleral translation can frequently be worthless.
    Frankieraye said : "we can promise that we will work to improve all facets of community, engineering, and customer service to ensure that something like this doesn't happen again."


    (We are still waiting to see any improvements or changes beign implemented. More empty promises from PWI?)
  • bictor
    bictor Posts: 45 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    since junk is so good, how did ling yun become named misty forest ?:confused::confused:
    79 WR - Oracle
  • lyterz
    lyterz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    how about Draco Sivitus? It means City of Dragons in Latin.I figured, since Archosaur is derived from archaic languages, why not use archaics that sound more... imperial? Sane? not like Barney the dinosaur might move next door?
    Marketing your game means reworking all aspects ;)
  • blueparrot
    blueparrot Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    I think the people who did the translations for International *do* speak Chinese... or some language other than English anyway. If you read the text from quests etc, you'll find that their grammar is nearly perfect, but it still sounds horrible. It sounds like the sort of thing you get when an 8-year-old stuffs their school assignment with big, long words picked from a thesaurus :rolleyes: I really don't think a native (adult) English speaker could have come up with translations like that.

    And I don't think there should be any Latin in the game... it's meant to be an oriental fantasy after all.

    EDIT: I like the 'scout' translation for eldergoth detector. Sounds much better than the clumsy 'explorer' that I came up with.
  • lyterz
    lyterz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    you know what, I agree completely. I would not want to detract from the essence of the game. But, yes, the flaws in style of word choice are, shall we say, prevalent?
  • kuailiang
    kuailiang Posts: 119 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    Eldergoth Detector? Seriously? That sounds...odd. I portray a robotic Eldergoth screaming 'Warning! Warning! PC character detected!'. Eldergoth Scout sounds way better, I agree.

    The Gothloc also became Kobolds. It find it strangely appropriate, little peons walking around with torches trying to burn you to the ground at slugpace.

    Lynxus. Lynxes. Squama. They should have stick with more normal names. Viper. Serpents. Whatever lol
  • blueparrot
    blueparrot Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    kuailiang wrote: »
    Eldergoth Detector? Seriously? That sounds...odd. I portray a robotic Eldergoth screaming 'Warning! Warning! PC character detected!'. Eldergoth Scout sounds way better, I agree.

    Really? I saw an old, hagged vampire sniffing the ground. :D:D:D:D
  • lyterz
    lyterz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    Honestly, I thought about it, as I'm sure the Develpoing team did. And I decided something. I like Archosaur. It might not be noble or grand, but it retains the games essence and refers to exactly what it should (ie. BIG LIZARDS). Perhaps we are used to big flowery names like "Eternal City of the Immortal Dragon Lords of Zephiroth Nine (ps. good name suggestion here ;) ", But the other suggestions out there dont fit. Face it, even Scout does not make for a title part of a Metropolis. At least Archosaur sounds big :)
  • kinetikop
    kinetikop Posts: 219 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    lyterz wrote: »
    Honestly, I thought about it, as I'm sure the Develpoing team did. And I decided something. I like Archosaur. It might not be noble or grand, but it retains the games essence and refers to exactly what it should (ie. BIG LIZARDS). Perhaps we are used to big flowery names like "Eternal City of the Immortal Dragon Lords of Zephiroth Nine (ps. good name suggestion here ;) ", But the other suggestions out there dont fit. Face it, even Scout does not make for a title part of a Metropolis. At least Archosaur sounds big :)

    Agreed 100% very nicely put.
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  • kuailiang
    kuailiang Posts: 119 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    lyterz wrote: »
    Honestly, I thought about it, as I'm sure the Develpoing team did. And I decided something. I like Archosaur. It might not be noble or grand, but it retains the games essence and refers to exactly what it should (ie. BIG LIZARDS). Perhaps we are used to big flowery names like "Eternal City of the Immortal Dragon Lords of Zephiroth Nine (ps. good name suggestion here ;) ", But the other suggestions out there dont fit. Face it, even Scout does not make for a title part of a Metropolis. At least Archosaur sounds big :)

    ECIDLZN? Would be such a bother compared to ADC xD

    The problem I have with Archosaur is that it reminds me a lot of the Power Rangers and their 'zords' and dinosaurs as a whole. I just doesn't sound right to mine ears ^^
  • ragingwind
    ragingwind Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    kuailiang wrote: »
    ECIDLZN? Would be such a bother compared to ADC xD

    The problem I have with Archosaur is that it reminds me a lot of the Power Rangers and their 'zords' and dinosaurs as a whole. I just doesn't sound right to mine ears ^^
    ROFLMFAO!!!

    The key to coming up with good names is to have a combination of things:
    1. Good meaning
    2. Good sound

    The people who decided which names to use seem to be a group of Chinese people looking at Chinese/English dictionaries who had several years of classes on the English language. They don't seem to have a clue how the words from that dictionary are commonly (or not commonly) used nor which combinations of words sound good as names. Great job, Flawed World (Perfect World), at localizing the game. Ha!
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  • quynh
    quynh Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    PW-MY-EN = failure due to engrish translation; lots of spelling, grammar mistakes

    PW-US = failure due to lack of common sense translation; good grammar/spelling overall, but context does not fit MMORPG world

    PW-EU(MS) = ???

    Can we say 3rd time is a charm?
  • cheianah
    cheianah Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    Personally I dont mind the names in the game, at least they are creative unlike most of the character names I have seen running around....
  • lockhart
    lockhart Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    The names are a rather small annoyance to me, the game itself is more important. But I have to say...Archosaur o.O? At first I thought they added a new city to the game when I looked the world map, just to see its yer good ol'ancient dragon city =P
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  • shizo
    shizo Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    I saw in a quest discribtion that : Go to bla bla ASAP! lolz
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    Quitted trolling the forums. PM me ingame, if want something

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  • ren
    ren Posts: 662 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    quynh wrote: »
    PW-MY-EN = failure due to engrish translation; lots of spelling, grammar mistakes

    PW-US = failure due to lack of common sense translation; good grammar/spelling overall, but context does not fit MMORPG world

    PW-EU(MS) = ???

    Can we say 3rd time is a charm?

    Hopefully they will get rid of venomancer, archosaur, barbarian, faction, squad before this happens.....

    Then again, all my hopes for Rohan and various other games were wasted so probably will be here too.
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  • zezix
    zezix Posts: 337 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    Suggested names:
    Dragonian City
    City of Dragons

    C'mon devs, this name NEEDS to be changed.

    You should probably give credit to the people who suggest these names because I am the one who suggested "City of Dragons" =]
  • lipe124
    lipe124 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    Its a bit harsh to say we'll leave the game cos the language sux. I'm pretty sure I speak for most of us when I say we're not about to quit just yet, ping is great and sofar everything works pretty much ok.

    We would be a LOT happier tho if the translation team at LEAST fly some ideas by the comunity before just going with something that looks like google translator. It makes the overall game experience seem cheap and halfwit. Its not that hard to patch these things while the game is under way and no one is going to be seriousley affected if something would change in the next 1-2 weeks. However if they ignore the issue and wait to long then its impossible to change it - even if they saw the err of their ways.
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  • espionis
    espionis Posts: 90 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    You know, I can understand that the names might not please everyone, and of course, there is a possibility it will be changed. But to flame the devs/translators is absolutely ridiculous. I agree, the names do stick out a bit, and I have "joked" to many saying that the MY names were better, but it's not horrible enough to start a war over.

    All the names have some Chinese root, or at the very least, a "literal" meaning. For example, Archosaur. Yes, it fails, but it fits what it is meant for well enough to be considered "okay". (Wiki it, or there's a post on page 1 that links to the word). Even "Barbarian" is understandable at the least. Not the greatest choice, but they can't just keep "werebeast" can they?

    As for the names sounding similar. This is still PW. They are trying to keep the same taste of the game, without blatantly copying everything. Eldergoth Detector? Fair enough, considering the Chinese root words. Granted, once again, there can be better translations, but at least it works.

    Now, I'm not saying there shouldn't be some changes for names, (I wouldn't mind too much if they stayed the same though), but to completely fly off the handle is a bit....silly to say the least.
  • ragingwind
    ragingwind Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    lipe124 wrote: »
    Its a bit harsh to say we'll leave the game cos the language sux. I'm pretty sure I speak for most of us when I say we're not about to quit just yet, ping is great and sofar everything works pretty much ok.

    We would be a LOT happier tho if the translation team at LEAST fly some ideas by the comunity before just going with something that looks like google translator. It makes the overall game experience seem cheap and halfwit. Its not that hard to patch these things while the game is under way and no one is going to be seriousley affected if something would change in the next 1-2 weeks. However if they ignore the issue and wait to long then its impossible to change it - even if they saw the err of their ways.

    +1. I agree.
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  • haiz
    haiz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
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    This thread fails because I already did it long ago, with a better rant.

    http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=21251

    And to the people who say Archosaur is an appropriate name. LEARN YOUR PLACE FOO! This game is about Chinese mythology, not a damned Greek word for lizards. Lizard isn't even on the Chinese Zodiac. Hell a rat would be better, at least its on there.

    Dragons = Chinese
    Lizards = fail
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