Cayeon's Guide on Full Attack Clerics

cayeon
cayeon Posts: 27 Arc User
edited December 2008 in Cleric
I've recently released my guide on Full Attack Clerics over at MY-EN, but I'll cross-post it here for a larger audience:

Note: Because the guide is just too large to incorporate it into a forum post, I put it into a .pdf file and uploaded it to my site. Rest assured that it is totally free of any viruses or spyware.

EDIT: I'm happy to present the new PW-INT version! The names have been changed accordingly, in addition to some minor revisions:
>>> Click here for the PW-INT version <<<

Thanks everyone for your support =)

The old PW-MY-EN version can be seen here:
>>> Click here for the PW-MY-EN version <<<

Enjoy!

Andra-edit: This guide is down. Here's a link where you can download the original file: http://rapidshare.com/files/207657457/FA_EP_Guide_v3.4.PW-INT.pdf
Post edited by cayeon on
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Comments

  • russel
    russel Posts: 78 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    Nice guide.
    Very useful. Even for ppl who don't want to do a full attack Priest.
  • kammie
    kammie Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    very nicely written, 10/10
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • jamsan
    jamsan Posts: 73 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    One of the few priest guides in this forum. Certainly one of the only ones focused on pvp, useful info and PoV for everyone.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Surprise Bear says: "Look for the prize with every surprise!"
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  • moonbeam
    moonbeam Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    nice work :):D
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  • zarexiz
    zarexiz Posts: 65 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    very useful, btw is there an non-cash item for reseting skills, cuz if there is you can use the attack build for leveling and when your done you reskill for an healing build in TW
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • tdrkzs
    tdrkzs Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    You have inspired.

    Since you want as much int as possible the only choice of weapon is wand right? As smexy as sword looks...
  • russel
    russel Posts: 78 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    tdrkzs wrote: »
    You have inspired.

    Since you want as much int as possible the only choice of weapon is wand right? As smexy as sword looks...

    As I recall he said that weapon is your personal preferation.

    Wand has highest min damage but also lowest max damage. Wand is hsarder to spike an enemy down.
    Sword is more ustable, lower min damage but higher max damage. With sword easier to spike, but rely on luck since gap is higher between min and max damage.
  • cayeon
    cayeon Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    very useful, btw is there an non-cash item for reseting skills, cuz if there is you can use the attack build for leveling and when your done you reskill for an healing build in TW

    No, there is currently no reskill item available, neither cash shop nor non-cash shop. Unless they implement one in the future, you'll be stuck forever with the skills you already bought. There is a restat though, in case you've messed up your stats (STR, CON, AGI, INT).

    But I don't think a pure healing build would be all that good in TW. Even some support priests I know are practically acting as damage dealers there most of the time. Only a werebeast or catapult puller is really worth being healed there, the rest of the people just die too fast before you can efficiently heal them anyway. So just create the build you like best, and stick to it.

    You have inspired.

    Since you want as much int as possible the only choice of weapon is wand right? As smexy as sword looks...

    As the former poster already said, the weapon solely depends on your personal preference. Even though the damage range of each one is different, the average damage is still more or less the same. Just pick the weapon you feel most comfortable with, it doesn't matter if you're hitting a mob for 3000 and 5000 or for 3500 and 4500. Personally I've always just picked the latest weapon available, and from level 70, when I started to get many options of HH weapons, I've always made my decision based on its bonus stats (mostly +INT, magic attack or critical rate).
  • senovit
    senovit Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    I love you cay.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • kaeriin
    kaeriin Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    Great guide, I read all of it the other day and immediatly tried making a priest up to 20 just to check it out and its definitely gonna be one of my main chars on International

    Kills VERY fast and is there for healing whenever anyone needs it - doesnt get any better
  • steadfast
    steadfast Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    very nice guide and nicely put... I was reading and searching for a class to play around with. On the 1st CB I played archer, and now I wanted to see if I can try something else new. So I was considering playing around with priest. After reading you post I m very much interested in getting it a try at your buid, and test out some of my own.
    THNX for sharing!!!:D
  • asirae
    asirae Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    Nice work! I was thinking of making a DPS Cleric, this is a good one.
  • hapz
    hapz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    thx for the guide.
    I noticed though, the names in game for the skills are bit different from your guide.
    Like the hierograms are seals, I think.
  • greystok
    greystok Posts: 62
    edited August 2008
    Great Guide Cayeon,

    Nice to see someone take my favorite job down a untraveled path.I would loved to have partied with you as my back up Cleric:D Truly though Grats on what is the most unique build I have seen in PW.Looks very interesting.
  • spammo
    spammo Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    Really great guide!

    I have a noobish question, if you don't mind .... (I confess up front that I am new to PW and have not seen the high-end gear to know how much or what kinds of bonuses they give.)

    I understand your point about going full int/robe over light armor- even with its added crit%, but after reading your suggestions about looking for %crit and +pdef items, I was wondering if it is possible to go full int build and later focus on enough +str/agi gear to be able to equip light armor? Are there enough points from +stat items to satisfy light armor requirements? Or maybe putting just enough points in str/agi while building the character to get close enough for items to be able to top it off? I guess what I am aiming at would be like a full int/robe hybrid, with the light armor defense and crit, but more base int for an optimal damage between the 2. Then again, maybe +50-100 str and agi through gear isn't even feasible.
  • senovit
    senovit Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    There really isn't enough. A level 90 full int priest would have 406 int, 49 str. To use level 90 light armor, you'd need 94 agi 94 str, meaning you'd have to scratch up 134 stat points. Rare accessories can give you +15 stats, and the level 90 hh cloak can give +9 str and +9 agi. The gold 89 sword can net you 11 agility. With 4 slots for accessories, you can get 60 str/agi points, and with the cloak and sword, the total comes to 89 points. You'd be about 45 points short. If you put those points in, you'd be down to 361 int, while a normal light armor priest would have 270 int and, with the same accessories, a ton more health. I'm not entirely sure this would be feasible either, as all those accessories I listed above can be replaced by +con and +hp rather than +str/agi and give even the full int priest a lot more survivability than the 0 con higher int/light armor hybrid.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • cayeon
    cayeon Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    Spammo, as Senovit already correctly pointed out, stats from equipment alone can't meet the high STR/AGI requirements for light armor. It's an interesting idea, but even if it were possible, it would be very ineffective. That's because there is no difference between getting stats from equipment or by statting them yourself (except that HP is easier to get on equipment). The AGI/STR would be much better replaced by INT, critical rate or maybe HP/p.def.

    As for survivability: A pure INT with 134 CON equipment would have almost double the HP as a pure INT light armor with 134 AGI/STR equip. To compensate for that, light armor would have to take only half the damage than a pure INT robe user does. That's clearly not the case.

    As for damage: If these 134 AGI/STR were invested into 134 INT, you'd do about 15% more damage at level 90. (calculated with cyclone)

    So you see, no matter how you put it, light armor is not an option for any mage class, be it for survivability or damage.

    The reason I advised to get some physical defense in the later levels is that usually you'll have upgraded your equipment high enough to not have to rely on HP soulstones anymore. You could then replace some of them with +physical defense soulstones for the additional damage reduction. But this goes only to a certain threshold. Due to the diminishing returns, adding too much physical defense will not be effective either. Where exactly that threshold is depends on your HP and your damage reduction per X physical defense.

    For example,
    If you had 1000 HP and 1% damage reduction per 30 p.def/mdef, 10+ HP would be needed to add more survivability than 30 p.def/m.def.
    If you had 5000 HP and 1% damage reduction per 30 p.def/m.def, 50+ HP would be needed to add more survivability than 30 p.def/m.def.

    It's all relative. You just need to find the perfect balance.

    To sum it up: If you want survivability, get more HP/p.def equip - if you want damage, get more INT/m.attack/critical rate equip (depending on what is most effective for you). AGI/STR for light armor is the loser in both aspects.
  • jette
    jette Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    I have to say I love this guide, and when we go to the open beta (where we keep our characters) I am going to try this build. I am fan of the game guild wars also and the monk (specifically an offensive one) is one of my favorite classes only eclipsed by the elementalist and assassin. So just nice work, well written, and I can't wait to try it.
  • doll
    doll Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    ahah aw i love this<3 thanks tons.
  • scantraxx
    scantraxx Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    thanks for this great guide gonna try this one out when OB comes out.
    jette wrote: »
    I have to say I love this guide, and when we go to the open beta (where we keep our characters) I am going to try this build. I am fan of the game guild wars also and the monk (specifically an offensive one) is one of my favorite classes only eclipsed by the elementalist and assassin. So just nice work, well written, and I can't wait to try it.

    we dont keep our characters..? there's gonna be a reset
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  • box
    box Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    Everywhere in the guide it says you should do pure int, but all the robes require some str to use?

    Edit: nvm I just read in the guide that it said to keep your str at a minimum for the equipment reqs
  • spawnlqx
    spawnlqx Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    What I don't understand....is what's the point if you can get every skill by 90 anyhow?

    The guide says not to get any healing or res whatsoever for others, even later when there's nothing else to spend skill points on...why? If your attacks are maxed, you could now add versatility to your full attack priest...and make it the same full attack **** kickin priest that can play support and healer too! Just ignore those people "halfway across the world" asking for res if you don't want to help them. You'll get bugged for it anyways, at least you'll have it to help your friends and groups.

    I commend you for taking the time to actually build your toon up and play through the criticism. I've played so many MMOs, and I've known many, MANY people like you, myself included, learning formulas and algorithms to make their unique builds the best....and some of them did develop what I call "One Shot Wonders". Sounds like what you did.

    Now I have one question: Would it be worth making a full attack cleric now? Most games will nerf overpowered classes and builds if they're as good as this guide makes it sound. I'm just curious if there's enough griping or something's already been done to nerf attack clerics, or if it's bound to happen. I'm just skeptical with how many advantages attack clerics seem to have over others, and would hate to put time into a build that gets nerfed.
  • scantraxx
    scantraxx Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    spawnlqx wrote: »
    What I don't understand....is what's the point if you can get every skill by 90 anyhow?

    The guide says not to get any healing or res whatsoever for others, even later when there's nothing else to spend skill points on...why? If your attacks are maxed, you could now add versatility to your full attack priest...and make it the same full attack **** kickin priest that can play support and healer too! Just ignore those people "halfway across the world" asking for res if you don't want to help them. You'll get bugged for it anyways, at least you'll have it to help your friends and groups.

    hmm thats a good point i wanna know to whats up with that. that means i can train my healing skill right away .. right? i have made a full attack priest and im lv 15 now but on this lvl i dont think its as good in pvp as it sounds in the guide (maybe it changes on higher lvl) i find it really hard to win from other players even on the same lvl as me.. but great guide when ob begins im still gonna try this build till higher lvl:D
    No one can compete with the boys from the hood
    Bringing you the finest of the Scantraxx Rootz
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    1st char IGN : Infectious
    Class : Venomancer

    2nd char IGN : Scantraxx
    Class : Babarian

    Server : Heavens tear
  • box
    box Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    scantraxx wrote: »
    hmm thats a good point i wanna know to whats up with that. that means i can train my healing skill right away .. right? i have made a full attack priest and im lv 15 now but on this lvl i dont think its as good in pvp as it sounds in the guide (maybe it changes on higher lvl) i find it really hard to win from other players even on the same lvl as me.. but great guide when ob begins im still gonna try this build till higher lvl:D

    That's because you don't get many of your useful PvP skills until mid to late 40s. At level 44 you get thunder wield (which is supposed to be amazing) and at level 49 you get the sleep debuff and stream of rejuvenation which can heal like mad. You do, however, get a lot of buffs/debuffs from 30-50.
  • cayeon
    cayeon Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    spawnlqx,

    The reason I don't recommend skilling heals even at 90+ is that you just won't be full attack anymore. As soon as you can heal, people want you to play the supporter role in parties - no way you'll be allowed to deal damage. Maybe some of you can live with that, but as for me, and many others going for this build I imagine, don't want to be forced to play a role contrary to the purpose of their build. What's the point in being full INT, increase your damage like mad, and then letting your potential come to waste?

    As I explained on the MY-EN forums, I don't see the point in leveling ress either. When you're in a party, there is always at least 1 other cleric, who can easily take care of ressing. And there is hardly anyone over 90 who doesn't have a doll anyway. But well, it's up to you. If you think you can find some use in heals/ress despite of their downsides, by all means go for it. Just make sure you don't regret it after; once you learned a skill, you'll be stuck with it forever.

    Of course it's worth making an attack cleric. If I remember correctly, Perfect World CN has been out for over 2 years now, and there is no nerfing planned. It's true that clerics (not only full attack, but also in general) are a very strong class, exactly because they have so many offensive capabilities here, which they lack in other games. Still, I don't think they're overpowered; actually they can be very weak if built/played incorrectly. It all comes down to each individual player's skill whether or not they'll be able to create a successful cleric.


    scantraxx,

    Don't worry, the levels 1-20 are always very hard for a pure INT. The benefits of INT don't really start showing until 40-50+, and your full PvP potential won't be reached until 60+. At least the sleeping debuff, the magic defense debuff, plume barrier, and thunder wield (all at level 5-10) are required to PvP efficiently.
  • kaeriin
    kaeriin Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    Wow... Way to go, I reply in a thread on the general discussion, and my reply shows up here!
  • cayeon
    cayeon Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    Update: New version for PW-INT released! Check my first post for the link.
  • spawnlqx
    spawnlqx Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    Cayeon,

    I'm not trying to bash you in any way for your success on your build....the only thing I don't understand is if you have the opportunity to get the rest of your skills WITHOUT hurting your offensive capability...then why not?

    It's all a matter of choices. You choose not to get those skills so you don't feel obligated to ever play a support role. Personally, I would pick them up just to have them in case they're needed. What happens if you gotta run that dungeon with friends and can't happen to find another priest for support? Now you have versatility without suffering any offensive capability or just wasting those skill points. If I didn't feel like playing support if I had the skills...I would simply tell any who ask "no". Perhaps you might have a tough time telling people no and that's why you refuse those skills?

    Either way, my point is your build is unaffected by picking up the other skills in the end game, as there's nothing to spend them on anyhow. Besides, a support cleric that goes full magic could easily pick up the rest of the skills in the end game, and be stronger than your build just because they have their full range of skills, and all your skills plus the heals and buffs as well (and can easily gear up to match yours). The only downside is they would now have a late start getting used to an offensive build, in which yours would have the advantage of experience through leveling with it.

    Now I'm not trying to change your mind, I'm just trying to see if you understand what my point is? It almost seems pointless to endure the mid game "crisis" i call it, dealing with people that reject your build, when you can go the standard, level faster, and beef up full offensive in the end game just as effectively. Unless of course you like PvPing a lot in mid game. There's just so many more advantages to getting those support spells as opposed to just refusing them on principle. Now if this game had some limitations to where you COULDN'T get all the skills available...then that would make your specific outline so much more viable, but that's not the case.
  • cerefear
    cerefear Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    cayeon wrote: »
    spawnlqx,

    The reason I don't recommend skilling heals even at 90+ is that you just won't be full attack anymore. As soon as you can heal, people want you to play the supporter role in parties - no way you'll be allowed to deal damage. Maybe some of you can live with that, but as for me, and many others going for this build I imagine, don't want to be forced to play a role contrary to the purpose of their build. What's the point in being full INT, increase your damage like mad, and then letting your potential come to waste?

    Spawniqx, Think you should read that. Cayeon didn't say getting the heal skills affects the build in anyway just his choice like you said.
    "The pursuit of Perfection leads to Madness, but the pursuit of Destiny leads to Triumph."
  • cayeon
    cayeon Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited September 2008
    spawnlqx,

    Don't worry, I do understand your point. After all, I was thinking exactly like you before I reached the higher levels. I'll explain this in more detail, but first, I need you to understand the whole concept behind the full attack cleric. They aren't clerics, they're metal mages. And so is their playing style, be it in or outside parties.

    That being said, let me reply to each of your points specifically.
    the only thing I don't understand is if you have the opportunity to get the rest of your skills WITHOUT hurting your offensive capability...then why not?

    If you ask ''why not'', I'll ask ''why?''. Aside that they're not needed at all for any of your purposes, they will completely change your playing style.
    What happens if you gotta run that dungeon with friends and can't happen to find another priest for support?

    Then you don't run that dungeon. I prefer not being able to help my friends over being forced to play a role I don't like.
    If I didn't feel like playing support if I had the skills...I would simply tell any who ask "no".

    There are only 3 possible solutions to this scenario. If you don't want to heal, you can:

    1. Just not skill heals at all
    2. Skill the heals but don't heal anyway
    3. Heal

    If you pick number 2, then I wonder, why would you get the heals in the first place? A full attack cleric never plays the support role in a party, so there is absolutely no use in the heals even if you skilled them. If of course you want to use them and play the supporter, that's different. But then I don't see why you'd like to make a full attack cleric if you like to support anyway.
    Perhaps you might have a tough time telling people no and that's why you refuse those skills?

    Although I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, I feel a little offended by this. Please direct your arguments at my statements, not at my personality. But to answer your question, no, I do have a very strong character, and I'm known for being very frank when it comes to expressing my opinion. Not skilling the heals is just a rational conclusion I made by evaluating the advantages and disadvantages.
    and be stronger than your build just because they have their full range of skills, and all your skills plus the heals and buffs as well (and can easily gear up to match yours)

    I'm not sure where you read anything about not skilling the buffs. That'd be nonsense, since they can indeed make you a lot stronger. That's not the case for the heals, though. The only heals that are used outside of parties (no matter which type of cleric you are) are Whisht Heart (Ironheart Blessing) and Sapience Pour (Wellspring Surge) - and those are exactly the 2 heals that I recommend to eventually max out. None of them is truly needed for a full attack cleric, but I can see the benefits in skilling them if you have all your offensive skills already. Ironheart Blessing is convenient to save pots and gives you the advantage of being able to regenerate yourself while attacking. Wellspring Surge is great as a quick heal in PvP to save you from emergency situations. So on these 2, I agree that they make you ''stronger''.

    The rest of the heals has no purpose other than improving your healing capabilities in parties. They can't be used in any situation requiring offense, so they don't make you ''stronger''. Maybe you misunderstood me. The only useless skills for a full attack cleric are:

    Blessing of the Purehearted, Revive, Soon the Light, Stream of Rejuvenation, Regeneration Aura, and Heaven's Wrath.

    You -can- skill them, but they don't give you any benefits over Ironheart Blessing and Wellspring Surge in the purposes a full attack cleric is using them for.
    The only downside is they would now have a late start getting used to an offensive build, in which yours would have the advantage of experience through leveling with it.

    And not only that. If you're a healer for your whole life and suddenly get the opportunity to attack, you won't grasp it. After being treated like a slave with no other goal than being good at healing for months, only the fewest truly realize their offensive potential. That's exactly why most clerics, including those over 90, do very bad at PvP - they follow the common dogma that healers should not expand their attacking power and only concentrate on healing. Their equipment, their playing style, -everything-, is arranged to be a good healer, while completely ignoring their attack power. Not saying that you can't ''reorient'' your character, but there is more difference between a healer and a damage dealer than just the skills and build they use.
    almost seems pointless to endure the mid game "crisis''

    ''Crisis''? Playing a full attack cleric is very fun; you can hardly call that a crisis. If you mind that people don't like your build, you're playing with the wrong people. I would never want to play with such people even if I was a support cleric; if they can't accept my ways of enjoying this game, then they're not good friends to begin with.
    when you can go the standard, level faster, and beef up full offensive in the end game just as effectively

    But then you miss the whole point of playing an MMORPG. It should be fun -while- you play, and not to see the mid-levels as 'a necessary pain' and go hardcore to reach the late levels as fast and effectively as possible. If somebody doesn't enjoy being a healer, he should not become one only because of these reasons you stated above. You also need to consider that most people never even make it to the point where they'll have enough SP to be able to skill everything. Perfect World is getting too repetitive after level 70-80 for almost everyone, hence people usually quit during that time.

    That being said, a full attack cleric actually levels faster than a support cleric. They do more damage and therefore kill more mobs in a given time. If by slower leveling you mean that full attack clerics can't AoE, that's true, but most support clerics can't either. Unless they spend real money on this game, they have to farm HH all the time to get enough gold for their hieros (seals) to be able to AoE. The time they waste in HH contributes to slower leveling again, which in turn makes the purpose of AoE obsolete.
    There's just so many more advantages to getting those support spells as opposed to just refusing them on principle.

    Okay, then let's sum them up. I'll explain why the advantages you've mentioned really aren't advantages for me.

    Advantages:
    - ''You can heal in parties when needed''. ---> I don't enjoy playing the supporter role, so the ability to heal will not affect me in any way.
    - ''You become stronger by having your full skill array to your disposition.'' ---> The specific healing skills I don't recommend to max have no benefits whatsoever for your offensive capabilities, i.e. PvE or PvP.

    Disadvantages:
    - You will play the supporter role.
    - Don't forget that buying skills doesn't only cost SP, but money as well.

    You see that for me, the disadvantages clearly outweigh the advantages; in fact, they are not advantages at all.

    In the end, it all comes down to if you're okay with playing the supporter in parties. If you're going to skill these heals, you must see a purpose in them, which is pure supporting. If that's how you like to play, sure, by all means go for it. You can be an 'attack-oriented' cleric who mainly concentrates on damage, and also likes to heal. This will not be full attack anymore though, since you also take support into consideration. Personally, I don't see the point in making a damage-oriented build when you're being the supporter in parties, but it's completely up to you how you'd like to build your cleric.

    But as for your suggestion: having the healing skills, not ever using them, and telling everyone you don't like to heal despite having skilled them - makes just no sense to me. Imagine this situation:

    Player 1: ''Hey, we need a healer for our party, wanna come?''
    Player 2: ''No, sorry, I'm a full attack cleric, but I've skilled my heals; nevertheless I don't want to heal, so I won't join you.''

    Now that sounds awkward, doesn't it? It's a total contradiction. Skilling your heals means that you're ready to use them.

    I hope that makes things more clear for you, despite my not-so-perfect use of English. In theory, your points are absolutely valid, but not so when it really comes to applying them.

    Again, the bottom line is that this is only my opinion. It's an opinion I formed by carefully thinking about this subject and evaluating all my experiences from the many months I was playing. However, it is not absolute. Feel free to disagree at any time; my way of playing is not everyone's way of playing.
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