0def for venos needs to be removed

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  • blazerboy
    blazerboy Posts: 1,673 Arc User
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    Many of those same classes must give up a massive amount of survivability to push those high benchmark gear wise. With the exception of sin,tech,ER because ofc new classes must be appealing and sin is pwi favorite child no class should have so much viable options to set up kills for near no risk. So if you’re going by other class damage outputs remember this none of them can do it from full vit build and def stones. While it’s true many of the kills veno don’t get themselves from 0 def, they still have the same option some DD classes as in atk stones. While this isn’t a preferred build it’s still an option as opposed to having such utility myriad which yea it’s luck based but if proced deadly, 0 def ,chi combo, nova and 2 decent damage absorption shields. I don’t agree with atk based venos for obvious reasons however it’s not like those other dd classes didn’t give up a great degree of mortality to be able to push those damage marks.
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  • mistressmuerta
    mistressmuerta Posts: 152 Arc User
    edited December 2019
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    Full vit/def you lose out on damage and your only way to kill is a very predictable and easily countered combo. A veno going full attack loses survivabilitiy just like the other classes. Those shields don't matter if you get ported onto by a para/stunlock or nuked by other magic classes from a distance before you can attack which balances it out. The other classes can keep constant damage which the veno does not have. The problem is not the debuff. Counters exist for the debuff. There is no counter for the attack level damage scaling. It doesn't matter how many times you attempt to use my points against me 0 proc is not being removed because it is not a single class getting an advantage over all the other classes.
  • dingo488
    dingo488 Posts: 936 Arc User
    edited December 2019
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    It's tragic to see how many people think that 0 pdef is designed to help the Venomancer solo kill people. If you're a Venomancer that does PvP (except 1v1s) and you have EVER casted Demon Ironwood (or the new 0 pdef) on a target that YOU intended to kill by yourself through the debuff then you fail at understanding the very basics of this game. And you're a trash tier player (spoiler warning: it's almost all of you)

    It actually blows my mind how poorly people on this game actually understand this game. I get that it's P2W which really just encourages only the bad players to stay, since all the good players can have more fun in other games where the bad players would just get farmed, but still the fact people are this dumb blows my mind. And this is about more than just 0pdef, it's about so many things I see people do in PWI that just absolutely baffles me.

    ''0 proc is not being removed because it is not a single class...''

    Holy **** dude. What's next? Blademasters can now cast an AoE debuff, 8 meter radius. If the players debuffed are hit by anyone that's not the BM their game will crash and they won't be able to relog for 30 minutes. Balanced skill right? Cuz it's not 1 class getting the advantage since other people actually have to land the hit that crashed the game. Y'all are a special breed.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXi45uIrOt0

    IGN: Madskillz
  • mistressmuerta
    mistressmuerta Posts: 152 Arc User
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    So much cherry picking. You are throwing a bunch of insults and exaggerating the situation out of context without making any valid points. I already explained that there are counters and the only reason people die to 0 proc is because of the attack level multipliers scaling.
  • hoshichan
    hoshichan Posts: 175 Arc User
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    anyseek wrote: »

    my best score was 2100+ ,but...do you guys talking about 0 def,or...just another e peen measuring contest? its funny how no name haters came up as fast as i mention who i am LOL ... whatever im out of this ,keep up with gj :)

    1) i havent seen you at 2100 for the past 2+ years, usually around 1900 and when we fought you, you were basically a 2 shot
    2) you started talking about arena score
    3) a triple arcane class combo should not play around 2300¬ and beat top tier squads, right? thanks to 0 proc we did. how is that balanced?
  • blazerboy
    blazerboy Posts: 1,673 Arc User
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    mistressmuerta wrote: »
    Full vit/def you lose out on damage and your only way to kill is a very predictable and easily countered combo. A veno going full attack loses survivabilitiy just like the other classes. Those shields don't matter if you get ported onto by a para/stunlock or nuked by other magic classes from a distance before you can attack which balances it out. The other classes can keep constant damage which the veno does not have. The problem is not the debuff. Counters exist for the debuff. There is no counter for the attack level damage scaling. It doesn't matter how many times you attempt to use my points against me 0 proc is not being removed because it is not a single class getting an advantage over all the other classes.
    If I recall correctly if the veno has that genie chi siphon skill than between the multiple ways a veno can deplete your chi, unless you have 300-400 chi from the time you’re getting cced and chi combo’d all that chi will be gone in a heartbeat. Idk about you but even with a paramount I hardly have consistently over 200 chi at almost any given moment. Unless I’m perhaps getting mixed up and there’s actually just 1 plus the 89 skill but that’s just 50 chi not too bad and the genie one. Never the less you still have the viable option of attempting that if it fails and assuming you’re using it on a target someone else is ccing, than they can still use an expel which you can purge and gg. However if they have AD they can avoid it but that’s a major save gone and dead overall it’s still a massive utility and although yes the veno hardly ever gets the kill, let’s be real it’s not damage that usually gets you it’s the overwhelming amount of debuffs and we all can agree the utility from one class is staggering. I can understand if nova and 0 def is melee range therefore making it high risk high reward like a bm but for nova, 0 def to be useable from a large distance makes it extremely hard to counter. Often you won’t see 0 def set up even though it’s “very predictable” even though there are couple diff skills a veno can run in to do melee that can make a player hesitant or use chi chant when he didn’t need. Most of the time I’ve died to chi combo my chi was gone and sparks poof and immediately die. Not sure from others experience but this has been mine.
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  • mistressmuerta
    mistressmuerta Posts: 152 Arc User
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    3) a triple arcane class combo should not play around 2300¬ and beat top tier squads, right? thanks to 0 proc we did. how is that balanced?[/quote]
    Re outfit your team in g16 and see if you still beat the top tier squads thanks to 0 proc.

    @blazerboy Veno is the status class. They don't have nukes because of the their debuffs. These scenarios where you die all seem to result from a free roaming veno. In a 1v2 or more the odds of you surviving drop anyway. What is the rest of your squad doing while you are being ganked? When you have full chi or next to full chi the chi combo can't kill you. It just leaves you without chi. If you die to the chi combo it's because your chi was in range. I also would like to reiterate even with paramount that veno offensive/defensive skills also consume large amounts of chi which they can not maintain while pressured. A veno is not regenerating chi if they have to cast expel/domain and use hood/barrier with offensive skills. This also disables the use of chi siphon since it cost 166 energy to cast along with its own risks. If you miss time siphon or fail to purge it off the target is given 3 sparks over 30 seconds.

    "a veno can run in to do melee that can make a player hesitant or use chi chant when he didn’t need"

    This is what you call tactics, which anyone can do. For example wizards channel Mountain siege anticipating you to cast some type of AD/anti stun so they can cast cancel and follow up with FOW into a fire combo. All of the mele classes aside from barbs have gap closers. Mystic thicket can also do the same thing as nova. Mystic also have ranged cast aoe puri plant that is also very effective in mass. If the counter support classes do their jobs venos will be less of an issue.

  • blazerboy
    blazerboy Posts: 1,673 Arc User
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    fuseekayme wrote: »
    @mistressmuerta mystic's are a rare species, there's more edge than there are mystics in game

    I honestly gave up discussing because the examples this individual gives are perfect scenarios such as having a mystic always and trying to spam Chance puri just in time. Or a enemy squad will let a db/sin babysit a veno a class ppl want ready to throw 0 def at their call. None of this is practical whereas getting ganked and a 0 def throw in the middle of a gank so you can’t see it before you die or a max range nova can pretty much be done whenever. Or somehow we must maintain over 300 chi at all times in pvp Incase a veno there looool.
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  • fury85
    fury85 Posts: 277 Arc User
    edited January 2020
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    I repeat.... is not a question of 1v1 or 3v3.. is a question of mass pvp. Try to counter 0 def in 60 vs 60.
    And btw... 3v3 if veno has sin + db in squad is pretty easy kill with 0 def cause of genie nerf. Wait someone to use genie, or force to use genie with ulti or chi combo, then coord with sin, 0 def boom target dead. Just watch kitashi's video and you will see how broken it is.
    Roar_King
    Level 105 Barbarian with Deity Stone
  • datsang
    datsang Posts: 163 Arc User
    edited January 2020
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    Man this was a wild ride, please continue by all means, just doing some fact checking here.
    mistressmuerta wrote: »
    Glyph on SB magic debuff and combining the 3 skills is -241-248 mdef. A character would have 0 water or metal def depending on which orbs you use. Have u tried it cuz its the same principle for when wiz had fire combo. 0 def is 0 def whether its magical or physical. Its going to hit hard.

    This is a common mistake ppl make. The difference is, though I cant for the life of mine remember checking how 0 p.def works stat wise or if its just that, 0 p.def. The thing with magic one, even if you were to stack debuffs like that, will never hit 0. Why you might ask? The mag gives stats and those stats will not be lost, same might be true with vit though we didnt do proper testing regarding that. Either way, casters are very hard to actually blow up with "0 m.def".
    mistressmuerta wrote: »
    Kitashi also tanks so much because she is flying low to the ground half the time for a free -50% dmg to compliment the def build. People are just foolish enough to fight her from air to ground.

    This just isnt true, lol. You get dmg reduction from hitting to ground from air but not the other way around. You are free to test it yourself.

    Edit; missread the point, not editing it out and putting on donkey hat

    -Your friendly neighborhood keyboardwarrior
  • hoshichan
    hoshichan Posts: 175 Arc User
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    mistressmuerta wrote: »
    3) a triple arcane class combo should not play around 2300¬ and beat top tier squads, right? thanks to 0 proc we did. how is that balanced?
    Re outfit your team in g16 and see if you still beat the top tier squads thanks to 0 proc.

    [/quote]
    you must be the new forum troll. or playing a different game.

    I was pointing out the fact that even 3 arcanes, which are considered the weakest possible setup can beat fully decked out perfect combo squads thanks to a broken physical debuff (hint: magic classes winning by abusing physical debuff, got it?).

    doing arena in g16 gear seems like brilliant idea, might remove cards as well, right? to make sure we all get 1 Shot by knife throws on def charms for triple our HP's. you are either someone that never actively pvped or you are Joe on an LSD overdose, trying to prank us.
  • alphadevil1991
    alphadevil1991 Posts: 99 Arc User
    edited January 2020
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    some ppl dont seem to get the meaning of percentage reduce of defense...
    100% means it get divided by 2, so u stay 50% of ur normal defense, 200% divides by 3 and so on...
    litterally you can do the math like
    nerfed-def = (def x100%) : (100x reduce%)
    xou cant hit a real 0 def except with the new green glyphed worm. some just might get close to 0 proc while SB are one of the most broken classes in 1v1 and pvp overall.
  • anyseek
    anyseek Posts: 7 Arc User
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    still cryin?eeewww :( if you guys keep cryin ,they remove it ,just like pwi removed hood from PK...0 def is stupid not balanced,but...1min arma,consta faith on gunner ,edges reflect skill,9 sec para ,skills/ulti reset on db,etc is very balanced and not stupid ? no need to mention tidal?!? yea...just give us back the old ez kill venos ,right? o/ whatever...keep cryin :smiley:

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