Spirit vs other stats on star chart

suggestionman#1119
suggestionman#1119 Posts: 39 Arc User
in General Discussion
So I hear a lot of ppl claiming everywhere spirit is not a good stat to put on fate star. But when I do the maths it appears spirit is still good for achievable endgame. Here's why :

A fate star with patk or matk at 20 aptitude is 700 ish patk/matk
An endgame character with +12 weapon, AEU set RB2 and no star chart equipped has around 7000 attack from gear (well not sins but the patk from chart gives less too so it's the same ratio)
So a fate star with attack is about +10% more damage.

A fate star with spirit at 20 aptitude is 200 ish spirit.
TS10 + AEU set RB2 + max nuema + ink = about 2000 spirit
According to spirit formula 2200 spirit has 6.7% more damage AND survival over 2000 spirit.

I understand PVE ppl prefering attack if they only care about damage. But in PVP where both damage and survival matter, 6.7% more damage + 6.7% more survival is kinda better than 10% more damage.

The same comparison can be done for spirit vs pdef and mdef. Spirit comes out on top when both damage and survival are taken into account.

Comments

  • dingo488
    dingo488 Posts: 936 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    The amount of people I see pick physical attack/magic attack fatestars over spirit but then run around with JOSD is incredible. ''It depends on playstyle'' they claim, but it just straight up makes no sense. I think in terms of physical/magic defense it's a bit different since some classes don't do damage so it makes sense to not value that at all.

    Its like someone offered u either 1 dollar or 3 cookies. And then later that same person offers you 2 dollars or 4 cookies. There's 4 different paths you can take. You can take the dollars both times and have 3 dollars, if you really value the dollars. You can take the cookies both times and have 7 cookies, if you really value the cookies. You can take the cookies first and the dollars second, since it seems to give the most overall value, giving you 3 cookies and 2 dollars. But the 4th option to take the dollar first and the cookies after makes no sense, giving you 4 cookies and 1 dollar, and that's basically what they are doing. In no scenario is that the correct option no matter what you consider the exchange rate from cookie to dollar to be for your class, there's ALWAYS a better path to take.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXi45uIrOt0

    IGN: Madskillz
  • blazerboy
    blazerboy Posts: 1,673 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    @dingo488 your first sentence makes me laugh considering I literally do that and get quite a bit done lmfao xD. So are you saying if say you're a sin db DD based arcane and you want damage and choose phy/mag atk dates you should be attack shards? Ok cool glad glass cannon life working so well when any form of gank even by two ppl means deletion. If you say happens anyways in atk fates with Jsod it's really doesn't necessarily happen. I'm Serenity and can tank a excess amount of punishment check my damage log if I'm bsing even from sins compared to most and while with that being said can purge a target and easily hit it 20k+ LA/Arcane/HA. Even when I'm purged I can take quite a bit aswell with a still good steady amount of damage. To say having atk fates and def lvl doesn't work is far from the truth I can also name others who do the same.

    Moreover I personally don't care for spirit I rock 1957 spirit and after a purge even w.o debuffs can hit most ppl for a steady amount of damage where I feel I'm being effective. With one spirit stat which isn't on fate on charge no spirit in orns I think it works fine for me full def/atk level gems in gear and pretty much ignoring spirit on chart provided you get a powerful enough charge to make up the slack imo
    Post edited by blazerboy on
    105/105/105 Seeking ScallyMode
    http://mypers.pw/5/#258958
  • dingo488
    dingo488 Posts: 936 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    blazerboy wrote: »
    @dingo488 your first sentence makes me laugh considering I literally do that and get quite a bit done lmfao xD.
    ''quite a bit done'' 10/10 math.
    blazerboy wrote: »
    So are you saying if say you're a sin db DD based arcane and you want damage and choose phy/mag atk dates you should be attack shards? Ok cool glad glass cannon life working so well when any form of gank even by two ppl means deletion.
    I was following until you said ''and choose''. My exact point is that choice is terrible. If you're a sin/DB/DD based arcane and you want damage then the most efficient way to get that is to switch any number of JOSD into Deity. If you have literally no JOSD left to turn into Deity, that's when you want to cuz phy/mag attack on fatestars instead of Spirit.

    blazerboy wrote: »
    I'm Serenity and can tank a excess amount of punishment check my damage log...
    Again, none of this is math. It's just how you're feeling.
    blazerboy wrote: »
    I feel I'm being effective
    But what if you can be more effective, without having to pay for anything you don't currently have.


    For the sake of properly furthering this conversation I've hijacked your mypers and adjusted the relevant numbers to match what you have now. I've also given you a star chart with double spirit and double physical attack. And on the opposite side I've put a random opponent that happens to also be you, except Twilight Sky 10 and +400 spirit on the ring, giving him 2071 spirit. I'll be touching your gear, but leave the opponent untouched. And I'll use the same skill in all examples. Skill I'll use is Lvl 10 Ion Spike (Picked at random)

    2 Physical Attack Fatestars:
    https://mypers.pw/13/#643173/521202 (apparently the link shows the unadjusted dummy, thats a bit unfortunate)

    Dummy takes 2863-3126 damage. Critical hit 5726-6252 damage.
    Dummy deals 2578-2861 damage. Critical hit 5156-5722 damage.

    2 Spirit Fatestars:
    https://mypers.pw/13/#643177/521202 (same as before, the dummy is the same though)

    Dummy takes 2752-3032 damage. Critical hit 5504-6064 damage.
    Dummy deals 2422-2687 damage. Critical hit 4844-5374 damage.

    Your motivation for taking Physical Attack fatestars was because you wanted a bit more damage, and my counter was to switch JOSD into Deity to get that damage. So let's see how much Deity we'd need to bump this 2752-3032 (5504-6064) to what the damage was when you had Physical Attack. 2863-3126 (5726-6252)

    Obviously it's impossible to get the EXACT same damage number with just JOSD/Deity so I'll give you the benefit of having to find the amount of Deities that makes me deal more damage than Physical Attack fatestars would. Which has brought me to the following build

    2 Spirit Fatestars (2 Deities in the Wrists):
    https://mypers.pw/13/#643179/521202 (same as I been saying, the dummy was untouched)

    Dummy takes 2862-3154 damage. Critical hit 5724-6308 damage.
    Dummy deals 2519-2795 damage. Critical hit 5038-5590 damage.

    If you compare this to the ''2 Physical Attack Fatestars'' build, you deal more damage AND you take less damage. So you are more powerful with the exact same gear, just a different choice. And it's not a playstyle-thing, there's no playstyle where you want to take more damage and deal less damage, that's just stupid.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXi45uIrOt0

    IGN: Madskillz
  • blazerboy
    blazerboy Posts: 1,673 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    @dingo488 honestly in terms of the damage calculator I tend not to trust it when I saw it said certain ppl would hit on average 20k+ but when tested on me nowhere near that so something felt off on that. Understand the importance of math but when I damage tested numbers didn't add up. Moreover you're stating a feel isn't accurate because here's no specific math but I'm saying in terms of damage testing with ppl for hours and the same ppl flipping your gems (Ik Ik waste of money but science req sacrifice) the numbers didn't correspond to mypers at all then some ppl told me that mypers aren't exactly on point but it's still a tool to use.
    105/105/105 Seeking ScallyMode
    http://mypers.pw/5/#258958
  • suggestionman#1119
    suggestionman#1119 Posts: 39 Arc User
    blazerboy wrote: »
    @dingo488 honestly in terms of the damage calculator I tend not to trust it when I saw it said certain ppl would hit on average 20k+ but when tested on me nowhere near that so something felt off on that. Understand the importance of math but when I damage tested numbers didn't add up. Moreover you're stating a feel isn't accurate because here's no specific math but I'm saying in terms of damage testing with ppl for hours and the same ppl flipping your gems (Ik Ik waste of money but science req sacrifice) the numbers didn't correspond to mypers at all then some ppl told me that mypers aren't exactly on point but it's still a tool to use.

    Mypers calculator is quite accurate. You can always do the maths yourself too if you don't trust it.
    Min and max of patk is also a thing to consider when testing in game.

    Chosing fate patk over spirit makes you deal a tiny bit more damage but makes you quite a lot squishier.
  • beast21g
    beast21g Posts: 631 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    suggestionman#1119 wrote: »

    A fate star with spirit at 20 aptitude is 200 ish spirit.
    TS10 + AEU set RB2 + max nuema + ink = about 2000 spirit
    According to spirit formula 2200 spirit has 6.7% more damage AND survival over 2000 spirit.

    I understand PVE ppl prefering attack if they only care about damage. But in PVP where both damage and survival matter, 6.7% more damage + 6.7% more survival is kinda better than 10% more damage.

    Really?
    In PVP roughly 10 spirit is 1% more damage and 1% less damage taken.
    PVP Spirit Damage = (1,000 + Attacker Spirit) / (1,000 + Target Spirit)
    damage dealt = raw damage dealt * (PVP Spirit Damage Amplification)

    with your numbers if the attacker has 2200 spirit the amplify damage is 1.06

    and these numbers are only if we are talking about spirit difference, cause if we put differences on atck/def lvls and physical/mag def plus level diference and if someone use a debuff or or or or..... and ping diference you will see that numbers are just numbers
  • suggestionman#1119
    suggestionman#1119 Posts: 39 Arc User
    beast21g wrote: »
    Really?
    In PVP roughly 10 spirit is 1% more damage and 1% less damage taken.
    wrong
    beast21g wrote: »
    PVP Spirit Damage = (1,000 + Attacker Spirit) / (1,000 + Target Spirit)
    damage dealt = raw damage dealt * (PVP Spirit Damage Amplification)
    true
    beast21g wrote: »
    with your numbers if the attacker has 2200 spirit the amplify damage is 1.06
    1.067 rounded actually. That's exactly what I said : 6.7% more damage and survival.
    beast21g wrote: »
    and these numbers are only if we are talking about spirit difference, cause if we put differences on atck/def lvls and physical/mag def plus level diference and if someone use a debuff or or or or..... and ping diference you will see that numbers are just numbers
    Not sure why you bring up atk/def lvls, pdef, mdef or even ping since all these variables are independant from spirit...
  • axel320
    axel320 Posts: 66 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    While we're correcting every tiny piece of other peoples' posts and generally acting like ****:
    suggestionman wrote: »
    beast21g wrote: »
    with your numbers if the attacker has 2200 spirit the amplify damage is 1.06
    1.067 rounded actually. That's exactly what I said : 6.7% more damage and survival.

    And exactly what you said was wrong. A 2200 spirit attacker has a ( 200/3000 = ) ~6.7% damage boost against a 2000-spirit defender, but a 2200 spirit defender has a ( 200/3200 = ) 6.25% damage reduction against a 2000-spirit attacker.

    Jarkhen | Archer PvP videos | Current Gear
    image
  • suggestionman#1119
    suggestionman#1119 Posts: 39 Arc User
    axel320 wrote: »
    While we're correcting every tiny piece of other peoples' posts and generally acting like ****:
    suggestionman wrote: »
    beast21g wrote: »
    with your numbers if the attacker has 2200 spirit the amplify damage is 1.06
    1.067 rounded actually. That's exactly what I said : 6.7% more damage and survival.

    And exactly what you said was wrong. A 2200 spirit attacker has a ( 200/3000 = ) ~6.7% damage boost against a 2000-spirit defender, but a 2200 spirit defender has a ( 200/3200 = ) 6.25% damage reduction against a 2000-spirit attacker.

    Well I said 6.7% more survival, not 6.7% damage reduction.
    It's true that damage reduction in that case is 6.25% which is about 6.7% (rounded) more effective hp (= 6.7% more survival)...
  • kokoot
    kokoot Posts: 55 Arc User
    Imho starchart is almost only one source of penetration phy/mag the question should be 2 times pemetration plus spirits or phy dmg.
  • jsxshadow
    jsxshadow Posts: 1,414 Arc User
    If only it was all that easy.

    Spirit stacks and correlated to Attack and Def level which in turn correlate to Base stats.

    I've tested spirit way too many times with nearly perfect equal stats and a dif of 200-300 spirit and starting from 1500 base spirit it is far below any increase of 6.x%. I mean, look at some people, the normal gameplay is proof enough for that. Some people with 2500+ spirit should obliterate others with 1700 spirit or less. That is not the case. Why?

    Because most Spirit-Hype guys tend to go for purely spirit and ignore anything else. I've seen people with vit stones/Drakeflames, garbage stats on their charts but 20 apt/lvl50 with double spirit fates and ofc 25 spirit stones in Ornaments. Low Def lvl, low attack level, low base stats but high Spirit. That is the only pointless option you could ever go for. Attack level, Def Level and Spirit all are alot more effective if the base stats are quite a bit higher. Add to that the fact that spirit gets less and less effective the higher the stat gets (from 1700-1900 it's already only ~70% of what you get from 1500-1700 and it gets worse the more you have) you see that adding spirit as anything but the last step in gear cultivation is unwise.

    I mean, anyone is free to test it out. Create 2 calcs from chars you have/people you play with. Now put them against each other with the exact same skills as in the mypers and compare the results. You will be astounded as to how massive the differences are in some scenarios. Granted, I tested this myself around 19 months ago and alot has happened to mypers so it could be more accurate now..but I somehow doubt it :D
    Mains:
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  • keihan007#7641
    keihan007#7641 Posts: 1,190 Arc User
    The value of spirit has gone down and will continue to go down when more boundary levels are introduced. This has likely affected peoples opinions on spirit not being great but the fact is it was incredibly powerful in the past and is still pretty damn powerful currently.

    I think the main issue with charts however is the fact you cant exactly choose what you get. You have been bound to get something decent at this point however and with how much certain ppl dislike spirit, I wouldnt be surprised if they threw those away cause it wasnt "double attack" chart.

    At current state, ppl who jaded themselves should logically go for spirit as their main star chart stat but as I said, there are other good stats and you could get a monster which isnt double something desirable but compensates for it in other ways. There is always the looming boundary level increase - Knowing how CN likes to throw those in, we likely see one in next CN expansion as its been a while since Twilight sky.
    BlackList vs Frenzied 3/17

    https://youtu.be/RkkWkigYd3k
  • suggestionman#1119
    suggestionman#1119 Posts: 39 Arc User
    jsxshadow wrote: »
    If only it was all that easy.

    Spirit stacks and correlated to Attack and Def level which in turn correlate to Base stats.

    I've tested spirit way too many times with nearly perfect equal stats and a dif of 200-300 spirit and starting from 1500 base spirit it is far below any increase of 6.x%.

    Perhaps you tested on pservers or didn't have every other stat as constant ? I just tested and it seems to work like the formula on wiki.

    jsxshadow wrote: »
    I mean, anyone is free to test it out. Create 2 calcs from chars you have/people you play with. Now put them against each other with the exact same skills as in the mypers and compare the results. You will be astounded as to how massive the differences are in some scenarios. Granted, I tested this myself around 19 months ago and alot has happened to mypers so it could be more accurate now..but I somehow doubt it :D

    There you go :
    https://mypers.pw/13/#643762/643764

    Both characters are the same except the stats on the 2 fate stars.
    The spirit character hits the attack character harder than it gets hit.
  • fury85
    fury85 Posts: 277 Arc User
    Imho i going to switch my chart with 2x spirit on fatestar for 2x attack + 2x penetration on fatestar. I play full offensive so i don't care much about the more survivability i can get with spirit since i'm already an easy kill. Changing to attack will give more boost and effect to my build.

    I think that spirit or attack depend much on gears, build and class.
    Roar_King
    Level 105 Barbarian with Deity Stone
  • fury85
    fury85 Posts: 277 Arc User
    Sorry for the double post but it wont let me edit...

    I did a little test on my pers.pw with my barb https://mypers.pw/13/#211281 (you can find both chart in inventory)

    Spirit Chart VS Spirit Chart takes 2610-3194 damage. Critical hit 5220-6388 damage.
    Spirit Chart VS Attack Chart deals 2979-3646 damage. Critical hit 5958-7292 damage.
    Attack Chart VS Spirit Chart takes 3096-3728 damage. Critical hit 6192-7456 damage.
    Roar_King
    Level 105 Barbarian with Deity Stone
  • dingo488
    dingo488 Posts: 936 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    fury85 wrote: »
    Sorry for the double post but it wont let me edit...

    I did a little test on my pers.pw with my barb https://mypers.pw/13/#211281 (you can find both chart in inventory)

    Spirit Chart VS Spirit Chart takes 2610-3194 damage. Critical hit 5220-6388 damage.
    Spirit Chart VS Attack Chart deals 2979-3646 damage. Critical hit 5958-7292 damage.
    Attack Chart VS Spirit Chart takes 3096-3728 damage. Critical hit 6192-7456 damage.

    It's bad to do the example like this. You are comparing 2 fatestars to 4 fatestars, since you compare 2 Spirit stats vs 2x Phys Att + 2x Phys Pen. Instead of looking at ''Spirit vs Attack'' I would suggest you look at:

    Spirit + Phys att dmg
    Spirit + Phys pen dmg
    Phys att + Phys pen dmg

    And then look at what has the better performance.
    Comparing 2 fatestars to 4 fatestars isn't exactly a fair :P
    Unless of course you have both these exact star charts right now, in which case just go with what's better of course!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXi45uIrOt0

    IGN: Madskillz
  • fury85
    fury85 Posts: 277 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    dingo488 wrote: »
    Comparing 2 fatestars to 4 fatestars isn't exactly a fair :P

    I agree. I just shared my test because is the chart i got.
    Probably a 4x fatestar with attack and spirit will be the top hehe
    Roar_King
    Level 105 Barbarian with Deity Stone
  • dregenfox
    dregenfox Posts: 713 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    I think I'm going to go start a thread proving that potatoes are not meat. I'll post a picture of a meat next to a potato, and conclude that the potato is not the same as the meat. Then watch as people come into that thread and say that I'm wrong and potatoes are actually meat.
  • dingo488
    dingo488 Posts: 936 Arc User
    dregenfox wrote: »
    I think I'm going to go start a thread proving that potatoes are not meat. I'll post a picture of a meat next to a potato, and conclude that the potato is not the same as the meat. Then watch as people come into that thread and say that I'm wrong and potatoes are actually meat.

    I've tested it in game, it took me 29 hours. I feel potatoes are meat actually, just my personal experience of course.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXi45uIrOt0

    IGN: Madskillz
  • wettstyle
    wettstyle Posts: 236 Arc User
    Ya, put some fur on that Potato and I get it Dingo hehe

  • aphrodita
    aphrodita Posts: 228 Arc User
    jsxshadow wrote: »
    If only it was all that easy.

    Spirit stacks and correlated to Attack and Def level which in turn correlate to Base stats.

    I've tested spirit way too many times with nearly perfect equal stats and a dif of 200-300 spirit and starting from 1500 base spirit it is far below any increase of 6.x%. I mean, look at some people, the normal gameplay is proof enough for that. Some people with 2500+ spirit should obliterate others with 1700 spirit or less. That is not the case. Why?

    Because most Spirit-Hype guys tend to go for purely spirit and ignore anything else. I've seen people with vit stones/Drakeflames, garbage stats on their charts but 20 apt/lvl50 with double spirit fates and ofc 25 spirit stones in Ornaments. Low Def lvl, low attack level, low base stats but high Spirit. That is the only pointless option you could ever go for. Attack level, Def Level and Spirit all are alot more effective if the base stats are quite a bit higher. Add to that the fact that spirit gets less and less effective the higher the stat gets (from 1700-1900 it's already only ~70% of what you get from 1500-1700 and it gets worse the more you have) you see that adding spirit as anything but the last step in gear cultivation is unwise.

    I mean, anyone is free to test it out. Create 2 calcs from chars you have/people you play with. Now put them against each other with the exact same skills as in the mypers and compare the results. You will be astounded as to how massive the differences are in some scenarios. Granted, I tested this myself around 19 months ago and alot has happened to mypers so it could be more accurate now..but I somehow doubt it :D

    thats exactly what i did and even at 2500 spirit its far more superior than the other stats.

    also, the people that "outgear" you in the arena, as you claim in every battles normal chat most likely focused on spirit and jades instead of your pdeff in ornaments and deitys in armor. at least i did that and accidently 3 hit you while making chi.
  • cosmosia1989
    cosmosia1989 Posts: 165 Arc User
    aphrodita wrote: »
    jsxshadow wrote: »
    If only it was all that easy.

    Spirit stacks and correlated to Attack and Def level which in turn correlate to Base stats.

    I've tested spirit way too many times with nearly perfect equal stats and a dif of 200-300 spirit and starting from 1500 base spirit it is far below any increase of 6.x%. I mean, look at some people, the normal gameplay is proof enough for that. Some people with 2500+ spirit should obliterate others with 1700 spirit or less. That is not the case. Why?

    Because most Spirit-Hype guys tend to go for purely spirit and ignore anything else. I've seen people with vit stones/Drakeflames, garbage stats on their charts but 20 apt/lvl50 with double spirit fates and ofc 25 spirit stones in Ornaments. Low Def lvl, low attack level, low base stats but high Spirit. That is the only pointless option you could ever go for. Attack level, Def Level and Spirit all are alot more effective if the base stats are quite a bit higher. Add to that the fact that spirit gets less and less effective the higher the stat gets (from 1700-1900 it's already only ~70% of what you get from 1500-1700 and it gets worse the more you have) you see that adding spirit as anything but the last step in gear cultivation is unwise.

    I mean, anyone is free to test it out. Create 2 calcs from chars you have/people you play with. Now put them against each other with the exact same skills as in the mypers and compare the results. You will be astounded as to how massive the differences are in some scenarios. Granted, I tested this myself around 19 months ago and alot has happened to mypers so it could be more accurate now..but I somehow doubt it :D

    thats exactly what i did and even at 2500 spirit its far more superior than the other stats.

    also, the people that "outgear" you in the arena, as you claim in every battles normal chat most likely focused on spirit and jades instead of your pdeff in ornaments and deitys in armor. at least i did that and accidently 3 hit you while making chi.

    Isn't it sad that, with that gigantic gear difference, you still need 3 hits to kill a deity caster?

    I've had enough discussions recently explaining in vain how imbalanced 3v3 is and how certain classes/shardings are hopelessly inefficient in contrast to other classes. I just say this much: Take SB as an example. In mass PvP, you have alot of chaos and only rarely can SBs consistantely be focused and thus they can roam and use their vortex/AOE damage to be effective. OK. IN 1v1, you have your counter-CC and can control the fight and thus the class is pretty strong (not so much vs tanky purify spell classes since CC won't work that well, but welp).

    In 3v3 tho...Too many targets to effectively counter-CC, only 1 save skill (lunar blessing, 3 minutes CD) hence when you use your genie as an SB, and lunar blessing and there are still 2 people chasing you then you are pretty much dead 100%. In terms of survival-power SBs are the end of the line of all classes. They can move and have singletarget-CC and have powerfull AOEs/Debuffs..but they are nothing but a piece of paper. Every other class has means to get away/shield/damage reductions with far lower cooldowns. I can't even chain IG + Lunar into the next genie skill...cause that's all I've got when pressured.

    Then you have psychics...SoS nearly blocks 50% of any damage or even more, white voodoo drastically reduces damage, psy will and a heal skill...don't even mention the Cooldowns...same goes for every other caster class. They can either heal or have several saves with low CD. SBs are EXTEMELY vulnerable which makes them extremely uneffective in squad setups with no Heal and CC support. SB + Cleric + BM, all defensively built are decent and very viable.

    Some people are just not tryhards and need to move together with the most effective setups possible and just go with friends. as it should be. That a majority of people still cannot tell how imbalanced 3v3 is and how well and not well certain classes do compared to others is disappointing cause it shows how little thought people actually put into this. No reason to think when you win, eh?

    As for the Topic: Spirit scales very well with Attack and Def level, so ofc, if you have both to the brim, increasing Spirit is more effective. However, especially when your current attack level are below a defenders defense Level you will see a massively superior gain in damage if you increase your attack level above the targets def lvl compared to just increasing spirit. Just saying.
  • aphrodita
    aphrodita Posts: 228 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    wall of text, gear difference, class difference bla bla bla bla bla
    arent you the master of all classes? stop playing SB and play DB then.
    maybe you will use antistun before ironguard this time.

    meanwhile i will keep beating NP squads on my alts, together with my friends.
  • keihan007#7641
    keihan007#7641 Posts: 1,190 Arc User
    cosmosia1989 wrote: »
    As for the Topic: Spirit scales very well with Attack and Def level, so ofc, if you have both to the brim, increasing Spirit is more effective. However, especially when your current attack level are below a defenders defense Level you will see a massively superior gain in damage if you increase your attack level above the targets def lvl compared to just increasing spirit. Just saying.

    Attack/Defense levels have like zero to do with spirit. Those are two independent multipliers - Only place where this becomes remotely relevant is ornament sharding and if you prefer attack or defense, go with attack/defense shards over spirit. Spirit if you want most for your buck and arent afraid of new boundary levels.
    BlackList vs Frenzied 3/17

    https://youtu.be/RkkWkigYd3k
  • jsxshadow
    jsxshadow Posts: 1,414 Arc User
    @aphrodita This ignorance is exactly what makes the biggest difference in terms of skill in this game. If you don't understand the weaknesses and strengths of all classes in all possible situations/setups this game has to offer and also don't nnow what each and every class can do at any given point in time then why even bother trying to argue with my about anything?

    Do you honestly believe that you would do better with a squad lile mine vs a squad with a BM, cleric and seeker, all with better gears? Nope. You would die the instant youe genie comes off as a SB as it should be. DB is exactly the same. Get caught in a CC lock without genie + add some AA and the db is dead.

    Arena is determined by whom is the tankiest. By whom can outlive the cooldowns of the enemy squad to strike back. I don't play purely for 3v3. If I would I would tryhard NP my barb, slap serenity on, and roll around with equally geared BM and cleric and roll the entire game. That is tryharding and would pose 0 challenge hence even thinking about spending such money for it can be considered ****-level stupidity.

    Ofc it's hard to accept imbalance if you tryhard yourself. BRB Ima try that too..gonna fight lower geared people only from now on with my DB in 1v1, mainly caster, so I can upload it and enjoy their helplessness in 10000 fights without losing a single one. Will I be OP then?

    Or rather...I log your psy, you log my sb. Selfbuffed 1v1. If you win a single fight in 100 tries I send you 10k, instantely. Not. Gonna. Happen. Why? Odds :) Don't even need to start a fight cause I know the outcome beforehabd and the only way a fight could turn out differentely than expected is if someone fails massively.

    Ah enough ranting, hopefully I could at least clear up some misconceptions about arena balance.

    @saxroll spirit indeed has nothing to do with att/def lvl but the relation between att and def level of your enemy to your own and their scaling is what can decide between att/def lvl being massively more effective than spirit or vice versa.
    Mains:
    Joe - Barb, Reapa - Stormbringer,
    xJosey - Mystic, lceDream - Cleric, Sanctan - Duskblade,
    xFynn - Blademaster, xZireael - Assassin
    Youtube!
  • suggestionman#1119
    suggestionman#1119 Posts: 39 Arc User
    This new concept of "let's exchange our characters and 1v1" instead of just "1v1 with our own characters" is rather funny.

    For shards on ornaments, I believe 1 genie + 1 sovereign have more damage and survival than 2 +25 spirit or even +32 spirit stones. Except when debuffed by sacrificial slash or against edge blur and absorb soul, but +16 vit stones would be better there.
  • blazerboy
    blazerboy Posts: 1,673 Arc User
    Can we keep this post on track
    105/105/105 Seeking ScallyMode
    http://mypers.pw/5/#258958

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