Final Nail in the Archer Coffin

I actually remember when joe said mystics are strong in his thread http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/pwi#/discussion/1203961/jsxshadows-derailed-pvp-discussion/p1
Mystics are one of the strongest classes in both 1v1 and mass pvp. Not at the very top but its up there.

jsxshadow wrote: »

No, learn to actually play your class decently. I had tons of 1v1s now and even fought max geared, full josd sins and managed to survive and nearly kill the sin. Why nearly? Cause of the gear difference I am able to survive using my skills decently but I lack the damage to kill a sin through tidal, genie, apo, deaden. It was very close tho. Very close while being outgeared vs the strongest class in this game and you are telling me archer are dead? Either you are dumb, ignorant or just a fool.

I also fought the so OP Stormbringer class on equal gears and I habe won 90% of the fights EASILY with my archer and this was using a genie only with AD (since the genie is not to fight storms, its vs HA) and no magic ornaments..so I could've increased the gap even more. If you wanna watch the fights type in Joe PWI in youtube and look for it (also have a link in my signature). Also fought mystics (again no mag ornas, no specific genie) and a BM (no specific genie either) and won all but 1 of those fights as well. Mind you that it was equal in terms of gears.

Tell me again how dead the archer class is mate. So dead. I can only rek most classes with it now. Yup, dead. Dead as sht.

Archers potential is huge now. Grab the right genie and you have the chance to beat any class (altho duskblades are still very hard if you chose to fight selfbuffed, same as sins cause they CC you once when ur genie isnt ready and you are dead (fair much? gg)) so please stop that QQing. I showed you how it can be. If you cannot do the same then the problem obviously lays within yourself. Archer are fine.

If you can survive a maxed sin on what I assume is a +11 archer, its not because you are good but because said sin is garbage. The moment your anti stun is off a good sin will force genie out of you. Afterwards you have to preemptively use your apoth or you are done as your genie is on CD. Does this mean its impossible to win vs sin? No but you have to get lucky and drop them quickly by getting sht trough tidal, which is fun times. I did some 1vs1s with a friend, I could get few rounds but when he damn nearly CZ oneshots my +11-12 archer, there is snowballs chance in hell I could win most of them. These fights were vs maxed sin who did take his star chart off to balance gear difference and I suspect I had slight gear advantage all things considered.

From what I have seen you fight complete garbage players, I am not saying its an intentional choice but at endgame archer dmg just is not enough to drop people if you arent deity and even so its bit close call. +10-11 vit stone BM is still killable if the BM isnt great, I have basically 123d such players just recently but whenever I get to fight a BM who knows wtf they are doing, its not exactly that easy.

As for fighting SBs, you have to again be heavily better player than SB to win it. I have only played SB on a private server that does not resemble retail all that closely but the difference to an archer, which there is a lot stronger due no passives, is still massive. Of course if you go for full buff fight with quick purge you got a shot but I dislike buffed 1vs1s personally.

@Post afterwards: I havent fought seekers in 1vs1 recently but last time I did I pretty much dumpstered one on pretty even gears where they had buff advantage (I was only cleric buffed cause I couldnt be bothered to SoD), This was after they got their ultimate and other annoying **** and I personally, unlike you, would rank seekers very low on the class rankings. I have not fought them since the latest expansion but I dont think the buffs did THAT much, sure they must of helped some.

Archer has no advantage against any class `cept maybe psy, you claiming they do only says how little experience you got fighting at endgame level. The higher the gear, the more apparent lack of dmg archers got becomes. Things like mystics just win by default as you cant kill one, they are too tanky with heals. Wizzies are ridiculously tanky too and even if you proc perfect purge they just leap with their stealth leap giving them time to survive and reset the fight. SBs hit harder, faster and have more survivals than archer - Even crapstatic SBs are such a painful thing to deal with. As for venos, I would imagine even anythefox would wreck your archer and I am surprised they have managed muster the required brain functions to install the game in the first place.

All in all, I would rank archer in the bottom 3 classes when it comes to 1vs1s with psys and maybe seekers(Need to get more experience with em since the update), I am in a weird place with my gear though where finding equal fights is difficult at best as I have likely highest physical attack on server behind NP archers but I am still missing some +12s and only my cape is sharded with endgame shards atm.

Lastly, you, unlike most archers, are sage, which is stronger path currently in 1vs1 environment. This gives you false sense of power on what most archers have due culti choice in 1vs1s. Demon is simply so much better at fulfilling its role in mass, which is why demon is by far more popular culti path.

jsxshadow wrote: »

I will tell you guys the most important statement about archer again:

"Archer are awesome if you have enough damage to put preassure on your target. When you dont have that damage its nearly impossible to kill people."

This even got slightly better with the latest update since you can sometimes just airglitch people for a little extra damage time.

Now stop QQing about the archer class when you know exactly where to real problem lies. Within yourself or within your delusions.."meh meh QQ I wanna be able to oneshot engame people on my lvl 1 archer meh meh QQ" why do I even habe to explain that shet to you guys...you are playing archer for sooooo long and yet are full dumbo mode. GG WP.

What you clearly dont realize is archer does not deal much dmg to even robes. Why dont you go and try 1vs1ing your bffl Ruby, have him not wear blessing(Will even shard differential pretty nicely) and see how it goes? Assuming they have such gear, using them as an example as its widely known you consider them capable. +12 robes have 25kish hp nowdays, even if you were to crit your 7ks, which you wont, on purged robe, it would take 5 hits after charm tick for robe to die. This assuming you dont hit def charms. And all this is best case scenario, in reality robe fights back, kites, has survivals and so on.

I can promise you I have drastically higher dmg than your archer and I am telling you its not as much as you claim it to be. The gap from +10/+11, which is what you been fighting(?) and full +12 with up to date stuff is just absolutely massive. I dont need full deities to tell archer dmg really isnt enough for what I`d call kill pressure. When ppl can just ignore and facetank QS proc something is seriously wrong. I am not asking to be 1shotting targets but really, archer just does not deal enough dmg for constant kill pressure pretty much every other class can pull of. I would be quite satisfied with a change where ranged auto-attacks got Endless Breeze passive effect on them. If and when we are "forced" to auto to maximize our potential, it would only be fair it wasnt nerfed to the ground because of what other classes broke.

Lets use an example of wizzie as you ranked them under archer on your list. Archers have very little kill pressure on a selfbuffed wizzie and if you happen to purge the earth shield they got stealth teleport to buy time to reset the fight. This results in a very onesided fight for wizzie as they can spam their genie offensively and have constant and real kill pressure on archer while archer has to pray for rng to get, on demons case, QS proc + purge and chain it with a stun. And that really does not guarantee kill even if wizzies genie were down. Of course archers still beat wizzies in 1vs1s, be it rng or being heavily better than than their wizzie counterpart or having the gear advantage but that hardly makes archer the stronger class in the match up.

jsxshadow wrote: »

Vit stones are cheap and good. Yes, but the difference between vit stones and Attack/Defense level with he amount of spirit we currently have is not compareable anymore. Just look at your own archer. If you would max your refines and go for full deity..you most likely end up having the same or nearly the same survivability that you had before. What you lose in def/HP from changing to deity you can make up with refine for the most part. Same goes for my Barb/Archer as well. If max refine they would stay on the survivability level they are now (Which is more than enough) but deal extremely more Damage. So you tell me whats the better choice.

Please dont compare full g13+ sharded people to you when you dont have the same gear level. Please. Cause the difference in shards is massive when you come from being vit stone sharded (I know, I am vit sharded on nearly all my chars).

PS: I wanna see a full devil stone, nuema portal archer. That has to be broken as ****

Eh, I started sharding deities, then they came out with NP spend promos I had been waiting for, not a week after I had burned my gold into JoSD promo and missed the Astrid card. This means I need 2nd round of promos, which doesnt really bother me, I would of wanted RA1 set anyways. But I dont think I will ever finish my deities, I will go jades when NP set is done and I can lvl 20 aptitude my chart. This is because I will reach 70k+ - 80k+ dmg range, which should be enough for all intents and purposes in mass. I have wanted genie stones for my orns for a while now but Yakshas are just ridiculously rare on Et currently and I rather took 100% profits on the ones I managed to buy earlier from ppl who really wanted em.

G13 shards are massive but specifically on Deities case you can balance fight by taking away some gear. Its not quite as easy with jades but saying you cant compare the gears is silly, of course you can. My gear currently misses 4 +12 refines, rest of it is +12 already and so we are talking bout 1,5k hp differential to max gear. But I got a ridiculous star chart(Double p.att and spirit on fatestars) at 15 aptitude currently, which compensates against vast majority of the G13 sharded ppl. I am not saying I outgear G13 shards but I am starting to be close enough to estimate classes strength at endgame level - the sin fight I did with a friend who happens to be deity was pretty balanced gear wise as he took his star chart off. I havent done actual math on those fight numbers as it feels like complete waste of energy to prove a point.

I dont quite see a point in devil stone NP archer. Sure, it would hurt badly and you would have kill pressure on pretty much anybody but its so heavily a 1vs1 build I have little interest in it. In mass you dont need them attack level stones if you are NP gear level all around and extra survivebility is simply better to maximize your effectiveness by staying up longer.

@saxroll from a seekers perspective we got decent upgrades. As in not as op as wizard but not as **** as bm (well, imo their roar is amazing but that ult sucks anyway) basically got an extra escape which is pretty nice for 1v1s or even mass, the rest seem kind of mediocre at best. I would agree with you on their placement on the awesome scale still as i think even after skill updates seekers kind of held the same position. Decent upgrades while every other class got decent upgrades.

As for the rest of you why you guys so angry all the time x) plus you guys keep using examples of past gameplay to bolster your arguments but the thread was created with the knowledge of future updates. No one has full crit and def level passives yet so still hard to judge where archers stand.

eirghan wrote: »

@saxroll from a seekers perspective we got decent upgrades. As in not as op as wizard but not as **** as bm (well, imo their roar is amazing but that ult sucks anyway) basically got an extra escape which is pretty nice for 1v1s or even mass, the rest seem kind of mediocre at best. I would agree with you on their placement on the awesome scale still as i think even after skill updates seekers kind of held the same position. Decent upgrades while every other class got decent upgrades.

As for the rest of you why you guys so angry all the time x) plus you guys keep using examples of past gameplay to bolster your arguments but the thread was created with the knowledge of future updates. No one has full crit and def level passives yet so still hard to judge where archers stand.

Why is everyone saying that BMs ulti is bad? It's pretty damn nice when you use ti at the right timing. As it has shorter channeling now you can use it through several layers of CC and the last 2-3 hits will end up being double damage...for a zerkcrit class with avg of 45k-50k base damage at endgame thats friggin huge. Just saying...

asterelle wrote: »

eirghan wrote: »

No one has full crit and def level passives yet so still hard to judge where archers stand.

I wouldn't say no one
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Hot mother of damn...did you gather 2000 Conch over the time? xDD Just thinking about how excruciating it must have been spamming all that conch + doing all that primal culti stuff on Ancient gifts xD

But can you tell us, what are your thoughts about those passives? How much spirit does Twilight Sky 1-10 give us accumulated?

You guys keep analyzing this based on equal gears, but thats not always the case. theres still some to alot of players who arent equally geared and or refined. so theyre the most likely to quit due to this being a massive game breaker. like lets say an archer was like +6 refined on armor but +10 on weap. Any other player who was like +10 geared with +12 weap would do 2-6x the dmg based on the difference in refinement. so enlighten some of us on how can ones who arent equally geared vs those that are can survive this game breaker by reducing crit dmg and adding more def lvls. The ones who arent equally geared will more than likely quit their class and go to alts for pve only or quit the game entirely and move to another game that is better balanced regardless of having friends here or how much money one has put into the game. Plus putting money into a game is like rewarding pw for their bad choices/behavior. So less pw can get a grip (which they wont do) they'll just become the laughing stock of the game world.

jsxshadow wrote: »

Find yourself a MMORPG game in which you can compete in the PvP meta without doing any dailies whatsoever or without investing hours and hours on end to get better gears. GL, there are none.

A certain title about guilds being at war part deux.


And don't give me the "BUT IT's <insert opinion here>", it's an MMO and you don't have to do a lot for pvp on even footing.​​

jsxshadow wrote: »

@notanyfox#3644 welp, if you dont have nullify nor evil ward on you genie then mystics will walk over most classes easily. Thats why I said that my post is based on real experience, not your stupidity. If a class is easily countered then it cant be the strongest.

Then how could mystic be the "strongest class in the game" a year ago if it was easily countered by a genie skill ?
And if you are losing to a mystic on a DB or BM just because you don't have nullify poison or evil ward, you are doing something wrong.

More contradictions. More stupidity. More Joe talk.

jsxshadow wrote: »

notanyfox#3644 wrote: »

Then how could mystic be the "strongest class in the game" a year ago if it was easily countered by a genie skill ?
And if you are losing to a mystic on a DB or BM just because you don't have nullify poison or evil ward, you are doing something wrong.

More contradictions. More stupidity. More Joe talk.

Sigh, when do you ever learn...man. It's pointless talking to you. The delusions are way too strong in you. Weird tho...you are still like a shadow. Unknown. You are a no-factor through and through. I have not seen anyone in the forums ever taking you seriously. What else do I or could I say? Nothing, there is no need. You get rekt by design man. Stop for your own sake.

As for your ridiculously low minded remarks:

A game changes. The Meta changes. Ofc people that just do Mass-PvP in Overpowered Squads with Overpowered gears wouldnt know but yeah, things changed in PWI and the Power shifted quite a bit over the years. Also, my statement about Mystics still isnt wrong. It's by far the strongest class in terms of survivability. That's for sure. They can also dish out ridiculous amounts of damage in a very short time, bypassing loads of defense mechanisms.

However, it is very easy to counter that OP stuff and a mystic has to work alot to get certain classes to a point in which they can perform a kill. The recent updates also havn't helped mystics to become stronger offensive wise. They also have the weakest Ultimate skill of all classes by far. So much so that it can be considered pretty useless unless you just wanna Transfuse it. That's literally the only purpose at endgame. Mystics became even tankier tho. I didn't rate the classes in terms of survivability, I did it in terms of overall power, strength and ability to outplay that class with everything at the disposal of every class. Not a facile thing such as you would list.

With the next update Mystics could become a little stronger on the offensive so I would have to reevaluate the power of all classes by then. Mystic also still suffers from the same pet bug that existed forever. Spawn devil (or any other myst pet) when you are too close to the target and it wont attack immidiatly, also Devils stun won't work when ur too close to the target. A fix for that alone would make Mystics alot stronger but meh.

This thread shows exactly why you lack basic logic.

Joe, a year ago : "mystic is the strongest class in the game"
Joe now : "mystic is the weakest class in the game"
Me : "why ? what has changed ?"
Joe : "if you can use nullify poison or evil ward you can counter them and they aren't the strongest"
Me : "nullify poison and evil ward already existed a year ago"
Joe : "muuuuh I don't know what I'm talking about so I'll make a wall of text to confuse everyone and try to get away with it".

@ your last post, mystics didn't really gain much survival and other classes offense got buffed a lot. Sins do a lot more damage, BMs got disarm on roar, DBs got op ulti, ... . Other classes getting better ways to kill is the real reason mystic got weaker not the fact they got a bad 5 min cd ulti.

In the end you thought that class was good. You played it. You got rekt. But it couldn't be the great clown Joe's fault so it had to be because the class is the weakest, right

jsxshadow wrote: »

notanyfox#3644 wrote: »

jsxshadow wrote: »

notanyfox#3644 wrote: »

Then how could mystic be the "strongest class in the game" a year ago if it was easily countered by a genie skill ?
And if you are losing to a mystic on a DB or BM just because you don't have nullify poison or evil ward, you are doing something wrong.

More contradictions. More stupidity. More Joe talk.

Sigh, when do you ever learn...man. It's pointless talking to you. The delusions are way too strong in you. Weird tho...you are still like a shadow. Unknown. You are a no-factor through and through. I have not seen anyone in the forums ever taking you seriously. What else do I or could I say? Nothing, there is no need. You get rekt by design man. Stop for your own sake.

As for your ridiculously low minded remarks:

A game changes. The Meta changes. Ofc people that just do Mass-PvP in Overpowered Squads with Overpowered gears wouldnt know but yeah, things changed in PWI and the Power shifted quite a bit over the years. Also, my statement about Mystics still isnt wrong. It's by far the strongest class in terms of survivability. That's for sure. They can also dish out ridiculous amounts of damage in a very short time, bypassing loads of defense mechanisms.

However, it is very easy to counter that OP stuff and a mystic has to work alot to get certain classes to a point in which they can perform a kill. The recent updates also havn't helped mystics to become stronger offensive wise. They also have the weakest Ultimate skill of all classes by far. So much so that it can be considered pretty useless unless you just wanna Transfuse it. That's literally the only purpose at endgame. Mystics became even tankier tho. I didn't rate the classes in terms of survivability, I did it in terms of overall power, strength and ability to outplay that class with everything at the disposal of every class. Not a facile thing such as you would list.

With the next update Mystics could become a little stronger on the offensive so I would have to reevaluate the power of all classes by then. Mystic also still suffers from the same pet bug that existed forever. Spawn devil (or any other myst pet) when you are too close to the target and it wont attack immidiatly, also Devils stun won't work when ur too close to the target. A fix for that alone would make Mystics alot stronger but meh.

This thread shows exactly why you lack basic logic.

Joe, a year ago : "mystic is the strongest class in the game"
Joe now : "mystic is the weakest class in the game"
Me : "why ? what has changed ?"
Joe : "if you can use nullify poison or evil ward you can counter them and they aren't the strongest"
Me : "nullify poison and evil ward already existed a year ago"
Joe : "muuuuh I don't know what I'm talking about so I'll make a wall of text to confuse everyone and try to get away with it".

@ your last post, mystics didn't really gain much survival and other classes offense got buffed a lot. Sins do a lot more damage, BMs got disarm on roar, DBs got op ulti, ... . Other classes getting better ways to kill is the real reason mystic got weaker not the fact they got a bad 5 min cd ulti.

In the end you thought that class was good. You played it. You got rekt. But it couldn't be the great clown Joe's fault so it had to be because the class is the weakest, right

Oh, sry. I forgot you are ****, that's why I have to state every single change in an update (I even hinted that wtf). Sorry, next time I make sure to tell you every detail my little foxyboy

You stated specifically nullify poison and evil ward as reason for mystic being weak, nothing else. If there are other reasons you have to say it. You didn't mention anything else because for you that was the only reason.

You're too easy.

At least I'm glad to see you took my advice and use stunning blast to air glitch instead of the pitiful combo you mentionned.