Fake TW Bidding Abounds on PWI
s3r4ph
Posts: 5 Arc User
The once great guild from the Archosaur server has been resorting to fake bidding on themselves the past 3 weeks to try and space out their real battles. It was just a few guilds at first, but now they're up to 5 fake bids... They're also outbidding the valid guilds to keep them from even getting a TW.. This is getting out of hand and something needs to be done about it.
Edited to change the title to a more generic one. ~Sylen
Edited to change the title to a more generic one. ~Sylen
Post edited by sylenthunder on
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Comments
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1. Submit a ticket.
2. Pray.
3. Silence.
It's been happening on for so long on all the servers it's not even funny. Sometimes the big 4 factions will even rally some smaller factions to do it for them. All of it is a complete violation, and it's been ruining TW for years. No matter how many times I report it, nothing happens.
PWE cares more about making money.
If they actually banned the leaders of the offending factions, they couldn't TW, would cease to exist, and PWE won't make money.
inbeforeclose0 -
This is getting beyond ridiculous. The simple fix would be to manually monitor if attacks were serious afterwards and not refund anything if they werent. Losing few hundred mil/week might put a stop to this. This wouldnt even require proving who is behind these alt factions, despite everybody knowing who are behind them in reality.0
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Even if it was just not allowing off map guilds to overbid on map guilds. The timing aspect of spacing out real TWs with fake bids is annoying, but can be dealt with. This "unnamed guild" has managed to overbid real guilds twice and I'm not sure how many times they've been unsuccessful.Post edited by s3r4ph on0
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Pretty much this ^^tiageros said:1. Submit a ticket.
2. Pray.
3. Silence.
It's been happening on for so long on all the servers it's not even funny. Sometimes the big 4 factions will even rally some smaller factions to do it for them. All of it is a complete violation, and it's been ruining TW for years. No matter how many times I report it, nothing happens.
PWE cares more about making money.
If they actually banned the leaders of the offending factions, they couldn't TW, would cease to exist, and PWE won't make money.
inbeforeclose
I predict this thread will be closed soon due the OP naming and shaming Faction with a lot of $$$$ players
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There once was a time when it was monitored. They would even make last-minute changes to the schedule sometimes.
Currently, I don't believe there are any violations with this thread, but I'll double check. It stays open for now, if only so that Domino might see it. We do really need for PWE to start cracking down on this.0 -
I am just curious, what is the process of this fake bidding? how does it affect tw experience for the faction doing the fake bids? how does fake bidding affect other factions?0
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I'll give a basic description below. We're kinda walking the line on the forum rules here with it though...What is the process of this fake bidding?
Well, they don't have battles. On purpose. That's the point of the fake bidding. To make it so that they don't lose land by preventing an actual battle.How does it affect tw experience for the faction doing the fake bids?
It prevents them from attacking. They are denied a meaningful battle.How does fake bidding affect other factions?
Ok, I'll try to lay this out without naming names. (I wanted to give the factions silly names, but I didn't come up with anything that wouldn't give away who I was thinking of when I wrote it.)
Faction A has 6 lands.
Faction B has 8 lands.
Faction C has 5 lands.
All three are big-name factions.
Faction D is a medium-sized TW faction with 2 lands.
Faction A is in the middle of B and C. They (Faction A) determine that they could likely win a battle against Faction B, but don't stand a chance against Faction C.
So what happens is that Faction A uses an alt faction, (or coerces another faction), to bid on the land that Faction C would be able to attack. That way they prevent from having a double-defense and don't lose land. They might even do the same for the other side so they don't have to defend anything, and then bid an attack on Faction D to expand their land even further.
This process would be a violation of the TW Bidding Rules.0 -
Yes I will vouch for this. I'm just another Etherblade player that has noticed this trend with said faction.0
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Please, just because little guilds are bidding on TW to try to gank you think it is a conspiracy. If u want to TW, just make a high bid. No fake bid would be high since if you lose the TW you do not get any of it back. So a flood of fake bids would cost more than the income from the lands you save, so probably not happening.0
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Well it only cost 1 ten mil note to bid and you get 90% of the bid money back ( or at least you used to). So a bunch of fake bids right before bidding ends makes sense to me if you are trying to prevent attackers.
Even if the 90% refund doesn't exist anymore, 10 mil isn't that big of a deal.0 -
Yeah well.... tell us something new, this is old news and nothing will be done just keep putting in your money .......0
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For the big factions who only care about winning, not about how, dropping a bunch of big notes on a fake bid probably doesn't matter much to them.sunnycali said:Please, just because little guilds are bidding on TW to try to gank you think it is a conspiracy. If u want to TW, just make a high bid. No fake bid would be high since if you lose the TW you do not get any of it back. So a flood of fake bids would cost more than the income from the lands you save, so probably not happening.
ellany is right. It's not like they'll ever do anything about it. Just like all the other TW rule violations that get ignored.0 -
there is something called max bid.....0
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It used to be 200 mil. That may have changed though, it's been forever since I led a TW faction.there is something called max bid.....
Considering that people will drop way more than 200m on one piece of gear, I can totally see a faction dropping that for a fake bid.0 -
real faction bids first max bid?0
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sylenthunder wrote: »
Ok, I'll try to lay this out without naming names. (I wanted to give the factions silly names, but I didn't come up with anything that wouldn't give away who I was thinking of when I wrote it.)
Faction A has 6 lands.
Faction B has 8 lands.
Faction C has 5 lands.
All three are big-name factions.
Faction D is a medium-sized TW faction with 2 lands.
Faction A is in the middle of B and C. They (Faction A) determine that they could likely win a battle against Faction B, but don't stand a chance against Faction C.
So what happens is that Faction A uses an alt faction, (or coerces another faction), to bid on the land that Faction C would be able to attack. That way they prevent from having a double-defense and don't lose land. They might even do the same for the other side so they don't have to defend anything, and then bid an attack on Faction D to expand their land even further.
This process would be a violation of the TW Bidding Rules.
Thank you for the explanation. Would it make sense to pick one of the bids at random to be the attacker? Rules can be devised to make sure no one gets left out. Just like how having more nightspike crystal increases the chance to make skycover, having more bid increases the weight of a faction winning the bid.
Or have people suggested better solutions to this? I stopped doing tw a couple of years ago, and back than i just showed up for pew pew, didn't look into the mechanics of tw.0 -
Ah... You know what i'm going to sort out the Info I was working on for this.0
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I am not from said faction, but is it true that naming and shaming is against the rules, you were smart enough to edit your first post, deleting the name of the faction.s3r4ph said:
Your comment would pull a lot more weight if you weren't from that guild....
Now on the subject of fake biding. On the old Archosaur server I remember very clearly people not only Fake biding to prevent attacks but also doing it at start of the season just to allow their Big TW faction to grab easy lands, If you add to that organized gankings and even the creation of some alt factions full of of the big ones alts just to **** the mid and small size TW factions, I can say that almost none of the current players from the old Archosaur server that still play this game are clean enough to talk about this issue.
Or everyone from old archo have already forgotten incidents like when some reaally known player did a fake bid gank attack on that same faction this thread is making allusion, heck I even remember the name of his factions, it was something like: --playername-- --is coming-- --for you--
Not exactly the same player and faction names but I will not name and shame the guy since is against the rules and also I dont have anything against him.
There was also this incident that I remember very clear that happened just before server merge.
During that time, 2 or 3 factions were trying to multi gank what you can call the allied of the faction you are referring.
This 2 or 3 faction tried to add another now defunct faction to the gank, but one of the Marshalls from that last faction did not like the idea and not only he told to his faction mates but also I think he WC about it.
The result was some big drama and of course one of the gankers taking retaliation against that last faction that did not wanted to be part of the gank.
I will not talk about the OHT people since I was not from that server, but I can guess that it was no so different there.
The more easy solution could be to ban the people doing the fake bids, but again good luck on that if those are actually the people who I think they are, I see it hard pwe baning their cash players
An idea that came to my mind is: Why not make it a bit more hard for people to fake bid. What I mean is and correct me if Im wrong. What this people are doing is:
- making alt factions with almost non toons on it.
- then they use that faction lead to bid on a land with a few million coins
Now I could be wrong here but if this wiki is correct:
http://pwi-wiki.perfectworld.com/index.php/Territory_Wars
I don't see a system based way to prevent this, the only thing that prevent the fake bids are the rules here:
http://pwi-wiki.perfectworld.com/index.php/Rules
And we all know that players on this game ignore the rules like 90% of the time.
So why not make it a bit more hard to bid system based?
- maybe put a minimum number of active people needed to do TW
- increase the cost per bid
- or maybe even the time after the faction was created.
I honestly find really lame that any troll can make a faction and bid for no reason.
Don't get me wrong on this, I am not saying that some small faction can't be allowed to do TW. But the way this whole biding system was created, allow to cheat really easy for someone who have a lot of in game coin, and most of the Big TW leaders are not poor in game 0 -
This is completely false. You will be refunded 90% of your bid, period. It doesnt matter if you even lose the bidding for said land.sunnycali said:Please, just because little guilds are bidding on TW to try to gank you think it is a conspiracy. If u want to TW, just make a high bid. No fake bid would be high since if you lose the TW you do not get any of it back. So a flood of fake bids would cost more than the income from the lands you save, so probably not happening.
@eeepsilon There is no group from old archo major factions where nobody has no connection to fake bidding. Mr. Wallace fakebidding is quite different from every other fake bidding, it was a complete joke and it interfered with nobodys legit bids. In essence there were no victims or gain from the fake bidding, which makes it quite unique. Sure, it was still against ToS but in its essence I dont consider it real fake bidding.
Old Nemesis group did fake bid for TW times. Aka forcing their attack/defense to main TW slot, which specially early season when there is plethora of bids on map and TW times are pretty random is likely preferable for all parties concerned. But yes, breach of ToS, I wont deny that.
The group in question here though. They have history of fake bidding to its truest meaning, preventing factions from attacking them. Outbidding legit bids and so on. Simple fix really is just not refunding fake bids and fake bids alone. If they want to spend 200m+ per land per week to keep them, so be it. I seriously doubt even their landcentrik ego is quite that large.0 -
All this sounds like to me is ppl in lesser factions who can only win tw by ganking other factions, and are QQing over being out bid on land. Merge your lesser factions into one factions then bid on the faction, its obvious you guys cant win alone so merge lol0
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Agree on this, In fact I had the feeling that his gank was just a troll and that is why I put it as an example, becasuse it show how easy is to make a fake bid, also the way it was put it in action to make a phrase would be hard to forget for any old archo player.saxroll said:
@eeepsilon There is no group from old archo major factions where nobody has no connection to fake bidding. Mr. Wallace fakebidding is quite different from every other fake bidding, it was a complete joke and it interfered with nobodys legit bids. In essence there were no victims or gain from the fake bidding, which makes it quite unique. Sure, it was still against ToS but in its essence I dont consider it real fake bidding.
Old Nemesis group did fake bid for TW times. Aka forcing their attack/defense to main TW slot, which specially early season when there is plethora of bids on map and TW times are pretty random is likely preferable for all parties concerned. But yes, breach of ToS, I wont deny that.
The group in question here though. They have history of fake bidding to its truest meaning, preventing factions from attacking them. Outbidding legit bids and so on. Simple fix really is just not refunding fake bids and fake bids alone. If they want to spend 200m+ per land per week to keep them, so be it. I seriously doubt even their landcentrik ego is quite that large.
I can not deny how much I laughed about it that day.
I actually think that what you are saying about no refunding is a really good idea, that would definitely discourage them about this matter, I mean they would have to be really desperate to fake bid almost billion or so per week.0 -
when a guild has to defend 3-5 lands on a multi attack, why not any other time slot activates? Why we have multiple time slots and only 2 barely activates on these situations? Sunday time slot when supposed to be? on PVE TW on the season start ?
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This sounds like someone who can only hold their land by fake bidding their lands with alt factions to avoid defending them.raidsreign said:All this sounds like to me is ppl in lesser factions who can only win tw by ganking other factions, and are QQing over being out bid on land. Merge your lesser factions into one factions then bid on the faction, its obvious you guys cant win alone so merge lol
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i guess you can tell who doesnt TW by the comments. fake bidding is a very real thing. on sanctuary it is exactly as it was described. there really is no upper tier faction that can honestly say has not participated in what is defined as fake-bidding, there is no clear worst offender or person who started it. ppl do it because there is no penalty and if glitches and exploits are not moderated and punished then you MUST also use them to stay competitive. simple facts.
PWE can monitor factions membership, and login activity for toons. they can write scripts to flag bidders who have less than 50 members in faction, based on tw-eligiblity, and toon level of activity (i.e, how much playtime the toon gets, ip logged in from, etc...) and monitor the next few months to see how many ppl are dual-boxing, sharing accounts, and populating auxiliary factions for the purpose of fake bidding. jr factions of main factions were not really a big problem before since it allowed a top tier faction to operate in the lower tiers with alts, but with the mergers there really is no use for them as there are enough viable factions for activity on all levels.
bottom line, it will take some effort and know-how in order for PWE to address this issue but since ppl are still spending 1200 gold to get free S cards, why should they? nothing domino or anyone says will motivate them to deal with this because they will have to ban a ton of toons and players. i think it might make the game a bit more fair but a business doesn't just throw away paying customers without knowing for a fact they can replace them.0 -
dagoddominator wrote: »i guess you can tell who doesnt TW by the comments. fake bidding is a very real thing. on sanctuary it is exactly as it was described. there really is no upper tier faction that can honestly say has not participated in what is defined as fake-bidding, there is no clear worst offender or person who started it. ppl do it because there is no penalty and if glitches and exploits are not moderated and punished then you MUST also use them to stay competitive. simple facts.
PWE can monitor factions membership, and login activity for toons. they can write scripts to flag bidders who have less than 50 members in faction, based on tw-eligiblity, and toon level of activity (i.e, how much playtime the toon gets, ip logged in from, etc...) and monitor the next few months to see how many ppl are dual-boxing, sharing accounts, and populating auxiliary factions for the purpose of fake bidding. jr factions of main factions were not really a big problem before since it allowed a top tier faction to operate in the lower tiers with alts, but with the mergers there really is no use for them as there are enough viable factions for activity on all levels.
bottom line, it will take some effort and know-how in order for PWE to address this issue but since ppl are still spending 1200 gold to get free S cards, why should they? nothing domino or anyone says will motivate them to deal with this because they will have to ban a ton of toons and players. i think it might make the game a bit more fair but a business doesn't just throw away paying customers without knowing for a fact they can replace them.
Yep, pretty much this. tiageros said basically the same thing earlier with less detail. Maybe a minimum limit of 100 instead of 50. I know they figure on a minimum valid attendance of about 25 people, but how many factions with 50 people could actually validly participate?
I think the biggest problem is the effort that would be required from the support team. It's pretty common knowledge atm that the support team is hugely under-staffed/trained for what they are supporting.0 -
No one from said faction has EVER outbid a land that has already been bid on since the ganks started. Two factions a few weeks ago were simply outbid because they couldn't communicate and orchestrate the gank well enough. This week the land next to Etherblade was already bid on, and the owner of Etherblade took a risk by trying to outbid. If people are assuming said faction are bidding for a bigger ego or to prevent more bids, that's pathetic. Anyone can outbid any area if they please.0
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Or you can wait until near last minute and bid minimal bid. That is what I notice. Not people outbiding each other on the same lands. ..0
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Making it so that landed factions can't be outbid by non-landed factions would do well to eliminate the worst fake bidding. Other than that, the only other way is for GMs to actually poke their heads in and monitor the bids. It doesn't take much to spot suspicious bids, most are plainly obvious.
I'd be very leary of enforcing strict penalties for offenders though. It would be all too easy to frame a faction by doing a fake bid on their behalf. I can think of several factions that would stoop to such a level to eliminate an opponent.0 -
How do you frame somebody when PWE keeps IP logs who logs what toons and when? Just because some faction is being bid on in suspicious manner doesnt mean staff would just ban them w/o investigating said logs. Well they might, this is PWE after all. I imagine it would be fairly easy to locate the real main of whoever is behind fake bids trough IP logs and following where the money came from. But obviously this is beyond our staff.perrion said:Making it so that landed factions can't be outbid by non-landed factions would do well to eliminate the worst fake bidding. Other than that, the only other way is for GMs to actually poke their heads in and monitor the bids. It doesn't take much to spot suspicious bids, most are plainly obvious.
I'd be very leary of enforcing strict penalties for offenders though. It would be all too easy to frame a faction by doing a fake bid on their behalf. I can think of several factions that would stoop to such a level to eliminate an opponent.
Suggestion PWE could take and work with easy enough with minimal manpower. Create a way for players to report fake bids, be it trough ticketing system/whatever. Then investigate the bids, you got 4 servers, refunds are paid on Friday iirc. There is plenty of time for people to report issue on weekend it happens and for you to investigate and act if there is reason for it. And my suggestion for penalty is simply not refunding fake bids. I imagine this would take less than 1 hour of manpower weekly for staff and it would most likely stop fake bidding more or less completely. Oh yea, throw that red chat message bout you now monitoring fake bidding and ask people to report them trough your desired forum. This will A) make people think twice bout fake bidding (Less cases to investigate = less manpower required) B ) Activate people to report the ones who wont take it seriously.
idesire17 Actually, there are rules in place for TW bidding. You cant just bid anywhere you please if certain criteria arent met. If these criteria arent met and you bid anyway you would be penalized for breaching TW rules by staff if they did their job.0
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