More randomness to BH100s

kittyempressa
kittyempressa Posts: 268 Arc User
edited September 2015 in Suggestion Box
Having the same 4 BH bosses from day to day is kinda boring, Kitty thinks, even if they change them about once a year.

So, Kitty thought: how about we had any boss from any lvl 100 instance as BH boss? That way we'd get an actual bounty hunting-feel when Head Hunter wants a different head almost every day.

We could have...

Lunar Glade-bosses(8)
Warsong City-bosses(6)
Palace of Nirvana-bosses(13)
Abaddon-bosses(incl. weekly bosses)(11)
Seat of Torment-bosses(incl. weekly bosses)(12?)
Advanced Endless Universe-bosses(4)
Endless Universe-bosses(3)
Flowsilver Palace-bosses(incl. Judgment mode's Belle Leun)(6)
Undercurrent Hall(yush, in all the painfulness it has)(3)
Twilight Temple 2-3/3-1/3-2/3-3 bosses(7+6+8+9=30)
Valley of Reciprocity: Delta bosses(10)
Card bosses(16)(available by farming Mystical Page Fragments from Delta and turning them to cards)
Old Heaven's Tear/Old Unicorn Forest/Old Valley of the Scarred/Old Moonshade Desert bosses(14)
Quicksand Maze(according to PW-database there's 11 possible end-bosses)
Total: 147 possible BH-bosses
And bonus:
Hidden Dragon Den-bosses(2)('cause Burial Inferno and Yelling to the Sky just would be so lovely)

BH II-bosses could be next bosses from BH I-bosses, maybe in another difficulty(for. ex. BH I: Illusion Nemen: Doom -> BH II: Twilight Emperor: Vacuity or BH I: Monoblat Dracoboa -> BH II: Mask of Grief)

Harder-to-reach/more difficult bosses could have a coin/item reward attached(Astrolabe leveling orbs perhaps?), like Delta wave 10 boss, Borobudur Lord, weekly Seat of Torment-bosses, card bosses, Twilight Minister, Emperor and Illusion Lord: Armageddon, Belle Leun, Undercurrent Hall bosses and Quicksand Maze bosses(some good reward for killing these!).

Pros:
-BHs wouldn't really be such a routine but an adventure instead when people would need to face bosses they've likely never faced before(about half of those bosses would be probably unknown to most at first) and they'd become familiar with creating lots of forgotten stuff like chrono worlds
-Even some dead instances would become appealing with enough BHs stacked for them
-BH would encourage squadplay more. Many people can currently solo BH Snakefist Guardian and BH Illusion Nemen: Null.
-if lazy, one could do 5 BHs at once by stacking(but that needs lots of quest slots and no active points from those days of not doing BH on the day it comes)
-though some BHs would be easier/faster than those we currently have, the harder/taking longer to reach-bosses would balance it out.
-PWE would make monnehs from Quest Expansion stones that people would buy to be able to stack dem BHs (and even more monnehs if they made quest list expandable to 50 slots with Quest Expansion Stone for every 10 slots)
-it would make it a bit harder for soloers to get high amount of coins from soloing BHs for alts as most of these BHs require squad to be done in any meaningful time(unlike BH Illusion Nemen: Null which can be easily solo'd in 15 mins when opened)->reduced coin income ->reduced inflation
-as opening card bosses requires MPFs from Delta, Delta would become profitable for many

Cons:
-Everyone would need to buy Quest Expansion Stones soon to fit in all the new BHs if too lazy to do them as they come
-many of the bosses can be hard at first because your average player hasn't ever fought card bosses, chrono bosses, majority of Lunar-bosses, higher TT-bosses...but that just makes them a challenge. So not really a con.
-Active points wasted if stacking BHs to do many on one run
-Very high-gear players could still solo many BHs (but not as easily as before)
-some of these BHs are unavailable to non-reawakened characters/those who haven't done chrono culti/can't survive the bosses
-some BHs would take a lot longer than current BHs. But stacking and added coin reward for later bosses solves this.

It would be a couple days' work for a developer, true. But it's not probably anything more than thinking about possible BH1+BH2-combos, suitable rewards for harder to reach-bosses, maybe little backstore for what crimes the bosses have committed to earn a killing warrant and then creating the Head Hunter-NPCs(there seems to be one per BH I atm), attaching the BH-quests to them and adding the NPCs to randomizer.

This could also be extended to including early Valley of Reciprocity-bosses and some Frostcovered City bosses to lower lvl BHs. Very few of current lowbies have ever done those and reawakened characters might also have fun trying them.

Kitty thinks this happening might lure lots of quitted-out-of-boredom players back to the game and make this game a lot more interesting in general.

E: Kitty forgot to add that to avoid instances with fewer bosses becoming much less common as BHs, they could adjust the BH rates so that EU, AEU and UCH-bosses would have 2 or 3 times higher chance of being BH-boss(a.k.a. their Head Hunter-NPC having more chances to spawn) than most, and BH-TT bosses would have half or 2/3 the chance of others.

If PWI's Head Hunter spawning randomizer is based on RNG giving values between a pre-determined interval and certain interval between values spawning certain boss(a.k.a. your basic randomizer-build), adjusting those intervals makes bosses(Head Hunter-NPCs) having different chances possible.​​
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Post edited by kittyempressa on

Comments

  • keihan007#7641
    keihan007#7641 Posts: 1,190 Arc User
    Luckily these kind of idiotic suggestions arent going trough, least for now. This game has too many dailies as it is and you people want to increase the time it takes to complete your main source of active points...

    3-1 is getting changed to Mushi, considering FSP is actually farmed daily by players its actually shortening the time it takes to do your dailies. This assuming you arent mass alting 3-1 BH like so many do, which again is good for economy, less "free" coin to alt hoarders.
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  • heerohex#3018
    heerohex#3018 Posts: 4,880 Community Moderator
    saxroll said:

    Luckily these kind of idiotic suggestions arent going trough, least for now. This game has too many dailies as it is and you people want to increase the time it takes to complete your main source of active points...

    3-1 is getting changed to Mushi, considering FSP is actually farmed daily by players its actually shortening the time it takes to do your dailies. This assuming you arent mass alting 3-1 BH like so many do, which again is good for economy, less "free" coin to alt hoarders.

    Where has that info come from?

    I put in a suggestion about Dynamic BHs a few months ago. The system cant hold any more Bosses to kill in the list which is the Downside of this.

    Feel this needs more input before its called.

    Thanks.
  • sylenthunder
    sylenthunder Posts: 3,061 Community Moderator
    heero200 wrote: »
    Where has that info come from?
    There is a rumor that they have done this on PW-CN, and since that's where our source code comes from, we'll typically see the change eventually.

    Personally, making any BH in an area that non-RB'ed toons cannot access is stupid.​​
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  • heerohex#3018
    heerohex#3018 Posts: 4,880 Community Moderator
    edited September 2015



    heero200 wrote: »

    Where has that info come from?

    There is a rumor that they have done this on PW-CN, and since that's where our source code comes from, we'll typically see the change eventually.



    Personally, making any BH in an area that non-RB'ed toons cannot access is stupid.​​

    Yes and so I normally Block Any Suggestions going in like that. Do we not have any patch notes? Nirvana However...

    Well one could hope 3k worth of keys to get into...
  • aeternusdoleo
    aeternusdoleo Posts: 180 Arc User
    Please keep in mind that the BH100's need to be do-able by characters that aren't R9+10 or higher. The current BHs all match that profile. I wouldn't mind if they brought back BH Lunar... EOD prices are getting a little ridiculous on Dawnglory at least.

    Lunar Glade-bosses(8)
    - Wouldn't do the first boss. Just too nearby.

    Warsong City-bosses(6)
    - Wouldn't do Incarcerate. Forcing players to do a successful FWS to do a BH is silly. The 5 pav bosses are fair game however.

    Palace of Nirvana-bosses(13)
    - Good thought, but the path is chosen randomly. Only the last boss is suitable for the BH.

    Abaddon-bosses
    - Puppeteer is too close by and Borobudur is too much. Horned Thunderclap will confuse many players. Other bosses should be okay.

    Seat of Torment-bosses
    - Weekly bosses are a bit much, especially Xipher and Hellfire abomination. Demontorch Marauder will confuse many players.

    Advanced Endless Universe-bosses(4)
    - Since the path is chosen randomly, only Aurugon is suitable. We already have that BH.

    Endless Universe-bosses(3)
    - Can be done, but what's the point of doing Gorath (would be annoying with his slam kicking folk off of the platform) or Mistress of the Night (could instakilling it fail the BH?). Would just leave it as is with Ghost Wing as the BH boss for EU. This instance is annoying enough as is, since if someone is forced out due to a disconnect or glitch, you can't re-enter.

    Flowsilver Palace-bosses(incl. Judgment mode's Belle Leun)(6)
    - Requires rebirth, would exclude a number of players from being able to do the BH. Not a good idea.

    Undercurrent Hall(yush, in all the painfulness it has)(3)
    - Requires 2x rebirth, would exclude an even larger number of players from being able to do the BH. Not a good idea.

    Twilight Temple 2-3/3-1/3-2/3-3 bosses(7+6+8+9=30)
    - A number of these bosses require Ultimate Substance to access. Until now, PWI has kept the BH boss paths clear of subs requirements. Since subs can't be obtained from turning in the BH rewards anymore, I'd say any boss that requires subs doesn't qualify. All others could - though I wouldn't do Fataliqua or Coredash.
    This leaves General Feng and General Wulord in 2-3, and Djinnscream, Deathflow and Illusion Nemen for 3-x (it's a bit of a walk to Nemen in 3-2 and 3-3).

    Valley of Reciprocity: Delta bosses(10)
    - Do you really want BH100's that last over an hour, with most of the time spent waiting for the next mob wave to spawn? I don't...

    Card bosses(16)(available by farming Mystical Page Fragments from Delta and turning them to cards)
    - Most players probably don't even know about these. It'd be costly to open the BH100 if the fragments aren't reimbursed.

    Old Heaven's Tear/Old Unicorn Forest/Old Valley of the Scarred/Old Moonshade Desert bosses(14)
    - These are worldmap bosses, not instance bosses. These don't qualify for the BH - they'd not respawn fast enough to service the entire server.

    Quicksand Maze(according to PW-database there's 11 possible end-bosses)
    - Don't know this instance, never been there. But again, it'd need to be a boss that you get on EVERY completed run, or could elect to specifically go to.

    Hidden Dragon Den-bosses(2)('cause Burial Inferno and Yelling to the Sky just would be so lovely)
    - Hidden Dragon Den has been removed from the game, please, don't bring em on the idea to put a BH100 in a nonexistant instance...
    ... forget your fears. And want no more...

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  • columrt
    columrt Posts: 15 Arc User
    Please keep in mind that the BH100's need to be do-able by characters that aren't R9+10 or higher. The current BHs all match that profile. I wouldn't mind if they brought back BH Lunar... EOD prices are getting a little ridiculous on Dawnglory at least.

    Lunar Glade-bosses(8)
    - Wouldn't do the first boss. Just too nearby.

    What's wrong with this? Or are people so lazy they do not want to go to the end of instance for EOD and extra badges?
    Warsong City-bosses(6)
    - Wouldn't do Incarcerate. Forcing players to do a successful FWS to do a BH is silly. The 5 pav bosses are fair game however.

    Meh, FWS is doable in TT 90, I wouldn't much mind Incacerate but can see how it would bother some.
    Palace of Nirvana-bosses(13)
    - Good thought, but the path is chosen randomly. Only the last boss is suitable for the BH.

    Abaddon-bosses
    - Puppeteer is too close by and Borobudur is too much. Horned Thunderclap will confuse many players. Other bosses should be okay.

    Having some easy BHs in the cycle is rather rewarding than a bad thing, at least if we're considering the BHs include also some longer ones. Weekly Abaddon is also quite fast to do, and not too hard to learn. However you can get the weekly reward only once a week so it might lack motivation to do long Abaddon runs possibly many times.
    Seat of Torment-bosses
    - Weekly bosses are a bit much, especially Xipher and Hellfire abomination. Demontorch Marauder will confuse many players.

    I can solo each of the weekly bosses, and my gears aren't anything too awesome. Queen is bound to cause some confusion/wipes but it's not like people also had trouble understanding BH EU and AEU when they came out.
    Advanced Endless Universe-bosses(4)
    - Since the path is chosen randomly, only Aurugon is suitable. We already have that BH.

    Endless Universe-bosses(3)
    - Can be done, but what's the point of doing Gorath (would be annoying with his slam kicking folk off of the platform) or Mistress of the Night (could instakilling it fail the BH?). Would just leave it as is with Ghost Wing as the BH boss for EU. This instance is annoying enough as is, since if someone is forced out due to a disconnect or glitch, you can't re-enter.

    I don't really see the problem with first or second boss, and nuking the boss should still count for kill if it also counts for the quest that you get from Morai for EU. I don't remember last time anyone got knocked off the cliff by Gorath. There's lots of cover and the boss itself is ridiculously easy. However I personally hate the once-a-day -**** EU has.
    Flowsilver Palace-bosses(incl. Judgment mode's Belle Leun)(6)
    - Requires rebirth, would exclude a number of players from being able to do the BH. Not a good idea.

    Undercurrent Hall(yush, in all the painfulness it has)(3)
    - Requires 2x rebirth, would exclude an even larger number of players from being able to do the BH. Not a good idea.

    Twilight Temple 2-3/3-1/3-2/3-3 bosses(7+6+8+9=30)
    - A number of these bosses require Ultimate Substance to access. Until now, PWI has kept the BH boss paths clear of subs requirements. Since subs can't be obtained from turning in the BH rewards anymore, I'd say any boss that requires subs doesn't qualify. All others could - though I wouldn't do Fataliqua or Coredash.
    This leaves General Feng and General Wulord in 2-3, and Djinnscream, Deathflow and Illusion Nemen for 3-x (it's a bit of a walk to Nemen in 3-2 and 3-3).

    Warsong requires 12 mirages, and BH Lunar requires 3 mil coin. Some other BHs would require other items. Subs are more expensive now, but not a huge deal. Even now I open BH TT 3-1 in high mode and clear out all the bosses for drops since others don't seem to want them. Plus, Coredash makes no real difference to Illusion Nemen, not at least if you were on Tideswell and knew how people tend to do that boss cause theyre lazy...
    Valley of Reciprocity: Delta bosses(10)
    - Do you really want BH100's that last over an hour, with most of the time spent waiting for the next mob wave to spawn? I don't...

    I'm sure people would love some chests of coins right now...
    Card bosses(16)(available by farming Mystical Page Fragments from Delta and turning them to cards)
    - Most players probably don't even know about these. It'd be costly to open the BH100 if the fragments aren't reimbursed.

    Imagine the perfect stone market...
    Old Heaven's Tear/Old Unicorn Forest/Old Valley of the Scarred/Old Moonshade Desert bosses(14)
    - These are worldmap bosses, not instance bosses. These don't qualify for the BH - they'd not respawn fast enough to service the entire server.

    Quicksand Maze(according to PW-database there's 11 possible end-bosses)
    - Don't know this instance, never been there. But again, it'd need to be a boss that you get on EVERY completed run, or could elect to specifically go to.

    QSM is random and tough instance. I'd think it'd be fair for any QSM end boss to qualify for the BH, rather than a specific one. It'd prove enough of a challenge and probably be fun too. I just wish they had some other than r8rr mat rewards.
    Hidden Dragon Den-bosses(2)('cause Burial Inferno and Yelling to the Sky just would be so lovely)
    - Hidden Dragon Den has been removed from the game, please, don't bring em on the idea to put a BH100 in a nonexistant instance...

    HDD was fun though. Wish they'd bring it back.​​
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  • kittyempressa
    kittyempressa Posts: 268 Arc User
    Please keep in mind that the BH100's need to be do-able by characters that aren't R9+10 or higher. The current BHs all match that profile. I wouldn't mind if they brought back BH Lunar... EOD prices are getting a little ridiculous on Dawnglory at least.

    Lunar Glade-bosses(8)
    - Wouldn't do the first boss. Just too nearby.

    Days with Lunar final bosses balances that out, and actually makes average Lunar BH a bit longer than it used to be.

    Warsong City-bosses(6)
    - Wouldn't do Incarcerate. Forcing players to do a successful FWS to do a BH is silly. The 5 pav bosses are fair game however.

    That's why people could leave Incacerate stacked until they have more BHs in Warsong City if they don't want to run FWS(and running a FWS doesn't really take that super-much longer than BH Snake). At least Kitty usually saves her BH Snakes for full Warsongs o.o Doing 2 runs in an instance and 3 less dailies or one run(due to stacking and thus wasting active points) and 3 more dailies...choices, choices. (btw, opening WSC costs more than opening TT)

    Palace of Nirvana-bosses(13)
    - Good thought, but the path is chosen randomly. Only the last boss is suitable for the BH.

    The randomness could be dealt with by adjusting BH appearance rates to boss appearance rates. So 2 paths(40% chance for each) have 40% of usual BH-boss's appearance rate as BH and third(20% chance) has 20%. By stacking a bit it will be very likely to meet at least one BH-boss. And stacking is why Kitty suggested those expanded Quest Log Stones further. True, sucks for those with many alts, but people already complain about people being able to do BH TT 20 times a day by soloing on main. Kitty's one of those with such character army so she'd lose a lot here.


    Abaddon-bosses
    - Puppeteer is too close by and Borobudur is too much. Horned Thunderclap will confuse many players. Other bosses should be okay.

    Borobudur would balance our Puppeteer's closeness.

    Seat of Torment-bosses
    - Weekly bosses are a bit much, especially Xipher and Hellfire abomination. Demontorch Marauder will confuse many players.

    Routes to weekly bosses aren't long though they hurt like hell. But even now we have squishies that get their weeklies done so it shouldn't really be that much of an issue. And Demontorch Marauder would be one of these "bosses you've never faced before".

    Advanced Endless Universe-bosses(4)
    - Since the path is chosen randomly, only Aurugon is suitable. We already have that BH.

    Stacking comes to play here, too. And if people run their weekly AEU's, chance they'd fight against BH boss would be high. And given how many possible BHs there would be, chance for being unable to do enough AEUs to get BH boss would be very low as it'd be unlikely to have AEU twice a week.

    Endless Universe-bosses(3)
    - Can be done, but what's the point of doing Gorath (would be annoying with his slam kicking folk off of the platform) or Mistress of the Night (could instakilling it fail the BH?). Would just leave it as is with Ghost Wing as the BH boss for EU. This instance is annoying enough as is, since if someone is forced out due to a disconnect or glitch, you can't re-enter.

    That why you position yourself so that you don't get slammed. And insta-killing Mistress wouldn't fail BH. At least Kitty's got her for quest everytime despite insta-kill(and "everytime" 'cause Kitty's done EU-quest on at least 15 chars).

    Flowsilver Palace-bosses(incl. Judgment mode's Belle Leun)(6)
    - Requires rebirth, would exclude a number of players from being able to do the BH. Not a good idea.

    Some smart people rather save Morai-quests for RBs so they can't do current EU and AEU-BHs as non-rb. Choices, choices...RBs don't take long, Kitty said.

    Undercurrent Hall(yush, in all the painfulness it has)(3)
    - Requires 2x rebirth, would exclude an even larger number of players from being able to do the BH. Not a good idea.

    (the same as above)

    Twilight Temple 2-3/3-1/3-2/3-3 bosses(7+6+8+9=30)
    - A number of these bosses require Ultimate Substance to access. Until now, PWI has kept the BH boss paths clear of subs requirements. Since subs can't be obtained from turning in the BH rewards anymore, I'd say any boss that requires subs doesn't qualify. All others could - though I wouldn't do Fataliqua or Coredash.
    This leaves General Feng and General Wulord in 2-3, and Djinnscream, Deathflow and Illusion Nemen for 3-x (it's a bit of a walk to Nemen in 3-2 and 3-3).

    Lunar Glade opening cost, mirages for Warsong City, subs for ancient BH TT 3-2 Emperor?

    Valley of Reciprocity: Delta bosses(10)
    - Do you really want BH100's that last over an hour, with most of the time spent waiting for the next mob wave to spawn? I don't...

    Stacking! And you'd want those Mystical Tome Fragments for opening card bosses <.< >.>

    Card bosses(16)(available by farming Mystical Tome Fragments from Delta and turning them to cards)
    - Most players probably don't even know about these. It'd be costly to open the BH100 if the fragments aren't reimbursed.

    Thus they'd get introduced to that aspect of this game. And with more people running BH Delta there would be more MTFs in the market and thus MTF-prices would fall down and it won't be that costy to open. And opener can claim the stamina/power mats as reimbursement.

    Old Heaven's Tear/Old Unicorn Forest/Old Valley of the Scarred/Old Moonshade Desert bosses(14)
    - These are worldmap bosses, not instance bosses. These don't qualify for the BH - they'd not respawn fast enough to service the entire server.

    Well, if their respawn times were adjusted shorter(most of them don't drop anything), they might be suitable for BH. And they wouldn't really be any easier BH than our current ones. Almost every OHT-boss hits about twice harder than Illusion Nemen and finding them(remember: you can't see your location in chrono worlds) would do for longy path to them.

    Quicksand Maze(according to PW-database there's 11 possible end-bosses)
    - Don't know this instance, never been there. But again, it'd need to be a boss that you get on EVERY completed run, or could elect to specifically go to.

    For QSM-bosses there would be an extra-high reward due to their difficulty. So if you're strong enough to face them, stacking would be worth it.

    Hidden Dragon Den-bosses(2)('cause Burial Inferno and Yelling to the Sky just would be so lovely)
    - Hidden Dragon Den has been removed from the game, please, don't bring em on the idea to put a BH100 in a nonexistant instance...

    But...but...tongue-in-cheek bonus instance ._. (no, HDD wasn't serious suggestion)

    Kitty's replies in her usual colour.

    Btw, if some BH I felt too hard to do, one could save it to complete with active points later when BH I is in the "Spend your active points"-section. That's what Kitty does to BH AEU currently ('cause she's too effin lazy to do the chain/saving requisite quest for RBs for easy leveling)
    ​​
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  • mai0
    mai0 Posts: 7 Arc User
    how about they add a bh3 for bh 100 and those are only the instances in primal or maybe some of the unused instances like nirvana? That way those that have RBed can get a little extra for being rb..but it wouldn't really effect those that do bh for the coin or whatever b/c bh3 will give you say 10fsp coins, 10bloods (of either type you want), 5 astrospira pearls, or 15 c war avatar packs. (number of items can be changed) Just make the reward something that is more useful to a rb person, but something they'd still be willing to run the instance for.
  • aeternusdoleo
    aeternusdoleo Posts: 180 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    @Kitty:
    - OHT bosses hard to find? Coordinate Assistant, set waypoint, navigate to that waypoint by the arrow, or by doubleclicking on the coords in the assistant for autonav. Not difficult.
    - Opening costs for TT bosses: When Lunar was the active BH, you got 500k coin for completing the BH, so the opening cost (divided by 6) was compensated. 60 Mirages are a random reward for any BH, so the opening cost for Warsong is also compensated. There is no way to regain Subs from doing TT bosses at present. Wouldn't be a bad idea if they allow the conversion of unwanted TT99 greens to subs... that'd solve the problem.
    - Morai opening issues for rebirth: The only Morai quests you need to do to be able to open EU and AEU are the the ones you get on entering Morai (up to and including the explanation of the orders that Glory gives you), and the quest chain that starts at Syfron (called Time and Illusion) that sends you to gather the essences of the Perfect World cities. This quest eventually gives you the Morai 95 weapon and a good bit of XP, and unlocks the miniquest to open EU. If you've done this quest and are lvl 100+, it will give you the popup for the (short) AEU opening quest chain.
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  • kittyempressa
    kittyempressa Posts: 268 Arc User
    They say that we'll be having FSP as BH soonish.

    So, with that change some of the comments about "unfair RB-requirement" became irrelevant. Current opinions on this suggestion?tiger-37.gif
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  • sylenthunder
    sylenthunder Posts: 3,061 Community Moderator
    Holy Necro​​
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