Valuless pots???

Eirghan - Sanctuary

Toliman - Raging Tide wrote: »

Sorry, but I say about facts.



If he had farmed 4000 pots during one day (chance of drop - 25%), then he could farm 4000/25=160 Lucky Star (if chance of drop is 1%).

May be it not worth to mention though.

This is my last post in this thread.

Well you wont see this but your logic fails me.
Not only are the drop rates drastically different for lucky stars vs pots (here is an example of a mob that drops both in a "bottable" area) but lucky stars don't stack so the most he could get while botting is, technically, 64, or however many inventory slots he has free.

Since they have decreased the cost of pots to null (though why they would do this when they decreased DQ to 1 coin i will never know) We are suggesting NOW they make them stackable (not before) so lucky stars as a drop are simple to pick up in instances (think farming nuema). Now that they are worth nothing (not even 0 coins) and cannot be exploited for coin worth (there are other lucky stars that do not offer shards, for example: http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/quest/3469) They are actually a HASSLE to pick up if they are not of an HP or MP quantity that your level can actually make use of.

But thanks for letting us in on an "exploit" so we can still make money botting. b:chuckle Going to bot for all of the lucky stars now to make flawless shards to pay for my repairs.

Jadsia - Lost City

Just completed my bot experiment. 5 hours 38 min - after repairs I profit 331.7K and I saved the valueless pots to sell in a catshop. Not much of an issue for me considering I bot for exp.

Eirghan - Sanctuary

Jadsia - Lost City wrote: »

Just completed my bot experiment. 5 hours 38 min - after repairs I profit 331.7K and I saved the valueless pots to sell in a catshop. Not much of an issue for me considering I bot for exp.

I will do another one for fun as well (i dont have reason to bot but i like knowledge) , as i assume (feel free to correct me if i am wrong) you were botting on an aa toon and my ha r9 toon consistantly has larger repair fees than my la and aa friends. But i believe with coin drops i will still come out slightly ahead.

Thanks for the info!

orangeladey

Jadsia - Lost City wrote: »

Just completed my bot experiment. 5 hours 38 min - after repairs I profit 331.7K and I saved the valueless pots to sell in a catshop. Not much of an issue for me considering I bot for exp.

Good to know. Thanks for telling us how it went. I always figured picking up coin was One of the most profitable way to make it. Pots and weapons were a nice bonus, but the real money is (surprize!) in coins. Unless you are starting out, then picking up ammo drops at 1coin ea were worth more, unless you feed those to your archer >_>.

kenshin151 wrote: »

It's the truth and the truth hurts, does not it?

The game may not be dying to you and others, but for many people, is already dead and buried. Different opinions, different views.

And I also prefer to play solo, so even think BH rewards should be better.

The company can profit more if you know please everyone, but they prefer to please only a small privileged group of people. This is called elitism.

Well, how you seem to condone what the devs do, you should be part of the group of people that helps the game be what it is today.

Hmm? Hurts? I'm not hurting, not even my fingers though I've been typing so much lately. But to whom do you refer? My post, or the post I refer to, or are you think the readers should hurt?

Don't answer please. It's irrelevant. Just do better elsewhere.

Perhaps you are right about the rewards for bh, since I never thought it was worth doing them, a larger prize might change that. But I prefer other things to boss fights, so, like you say, to each there own.

Condone the 'devs'. I neither condone nor castigate them. I criticize the management. But everyone says 'devs' as if they are god.

Software development is not a simple process.

Take the example of the original topic of this thread,

(I'm still hoping for an quoted explanation of the change, why it wasn't documented, on the price change and the change to the NPCs)


In this example the Boss, (they might not even be the top boss, just a boss) gets report there is an ongoing problem with the game (bots, surplus coin, whatever) tells next level down to do something about it.

They look into it, depending on how good they are, they trace the source of the problem, if they aren't good, they Assume the source of the problem. (Still too much created coin after dq nerf or something)

They figure out what they, the company, are going to do about it. (Nerf price of next most common drops)

They check with the boss that it is okay to proceed, presenting pros, cons, etc.

Boss gives the go ahead.

For pots, it likely went to who ever is in charge of game variables.
To remove the list prices from NPC is a position that affects game layout, text boxes. Probably the same position as does the variables.


Different problems have different paths, and different people to whom they will be assigned.

People cry 'Devs!' at so many problems. But Dev should be short for 'Developer'. As in a person who creates code and or resources (art, music). The Developers ARE NOT IN CHARGE! Not unless they are working alongside everyone else.


Yes there are bugs in the programming. The 'devs' should fix those.

Yes there are bugs in how a server is set up. The server operators should fix those.

Yes there may be overlap. More often there is than isn't. BUT IT IS ALWAYS IMPORTANT TO KNOW THAT YOU ARE ADDRESSING PEOPLE WHO CAN MAKE CHANGES! That also includes making a dialog where they are present. If any actual 'dev' has ever visited these forums, I'd be greatly surprized.

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

orangeladey wrote: »

Yes there are bugs in the programming. The 'devs' should fix those.

Yes there are bugs in how a server is set up. The server operators should fix those.

Yes there may be overlap. More often there is than isn't. BUT IT IS ALWAYS IMPORTANT TO KNOW THAT YOU ARE ADDRESSING PEOPLE WHO CAN MAKE CHANGES! That also includes making a dialog where they are present. If any actual 'dev' has ever visited these forums, I'd be greatly surprized.

The server is set up by the developers.

The developers are in China, and work for Wanmei.

PWE is just a publisher, and aside from hosting the hardware, does no development or server management for the game. (Same can be said for just about every title PWE has currently published. In some cases they don't even have their hands on the hardware.)

You are correct, it's very unlikely that the China developers have ever visited our forums. Most of them don't even speak English.

The developers will only work on what Wanmei management directs them to. Usually that is new content for making money in front of fixing bugs.

Mayfly - Dreamweaver

Very few if any actual devs could read this forum, even if they visited. They're Chinese, you see, and I don't mean Chinese-Americans or or any other sort of overseas Chinese, but actual mainland Chinese.

gabrielgrey

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

The server is set up by the developers.

The developers are in China, and work for Wanmei.

PWE is just a publisher, and aside from hosting the hardware, does no development or server management for the game. (Same can be said for just about every title PWE has currently published. In some cases they don't even have their hands on the hardware.)

You are correct, it's very unlikely that the China developers have ever visited our forums. Most of them don't even speak English.

The developers will only work on what Wanmei management directs them to. Usually that is new content for making money in front of fixing bugs.

So ... we're really off topic now and I'm not certain whether the above (from post 36) is actually true, this might be some speculation. Since I don't have any knowledge of their business model or set up, let's put all that off to the side.

Like the original poster, all I really want is an explanation for the undocumented change, maybe in 1 or 2 sentences to say what the plan was (is this still part of gold price rebalancing because tonight it was at or over 3mil in auction house for sellers). It was working for while, now the price is way up again because coin is harder to come by. As an IT person the whole purpose of a documented change log is well, to document changes. Hidden changes only cause confusion (sorta like this thread).

And the apothacary bug because of it, that needs an immediate fix.

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

gabrielgrey wrote: »

So ... we're really off topic now and I'm not certain whether the above (from post 36) is actually true, this might be some speculation. Since I don't have any knowledge of their business model or set up, let's put all that off to the side.

Like the original poster, all I really want is an explanation for the undocumented change, maybe in 1 or 2 sentences to say what the plan was (is this still part of gold price rebalancing because tonight it was at or over 3mil in auction house for sellers). It was working for while, now the price is way up again because coin is harder to come by. As an IT person the whole purpose of a documented change log is well, to document changes. Hidden changes only cause confusion (sorta like this thread).

And the apothacary bug because of it, that needs an immediate fix.

That's just it though. The change was made by the developers in China. PWE very likely does not know anything about it. (Too often it's us users that find these things out first.)

It was most likely done by China in an effort to further combat the severe botting issue that they have there. Since our version is a modified copy of theirs, we end up getting the shaft as well. That's what happened with the nerf to re-sale prices to NPC's, then the DQ Nerf, then the next DQ nerf, then the complete DQ nerf and nerfed gear drop prices, and so on.

The patch notes are simply a list of changes that China tells PWE to post. They are almost never complete.

orangeladey

SylenThunder - you say a lot. But a lot of what you state as fact is speculation at best.

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

The server is set up by the developers.
...

PWE is just a publisher, and aside from hosting the hardware, does no development or server management for the game.
...

There are several mistakes right there. A server is both the running software instance of an online program (the game) AND the hardware platform that instance is run on. The closest a software developer gets to running an instance is beta/bug testing unless the whole company/group is just a few people and you need all hands.

PWE is a publisher in that they distrube software. They are also a server host. They DO develop parts of the game. I believe China has absolutely zero PvE servers, that is unique to PWE and developed by them. Presumably by mucking with server configs. Since the server instance are here, they are also entirely responsible for server management. WANMEI has asked them to align their servers to match things in China - which should simplify troubleshooting in the future. But that is again working through legacy code and settings (I'd be surprised if any original programmer is still around.)


AND since translations and thus TEXTUAL DISPLAYS are entirely in the care of PWE, they are responsible for explaining where our Price field went from the Apothecary NPCs.


b:byeOPKossy or other Mod - is there any chance of us getting answers? I'm not seeing anything new on the original topics, so if no answers are forth coming, I'd ask this be closed.

b:surrender Sorry everyone, I just don't want this going further off topic.

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

orangeladey wrote: »

SylenThunder - you say a lot. But a lot of what you state as fact is speculation at best.

There are several mistakes right there. A server is both the running software instance of an online program (the game) AND the hardware platform that instance is run on. The closest a software developer gets to running an instance is beta/bug testing unless the whole company/group is just a few people and you need all hands.

PWE is a publisher in that they distrube software. They are also a server host. They DO develop parts of the game. I believe China has absolutely zero PvE servers, that is unique to PWE and developed by them. Presumably by mucking with server configs. Since the server instance are here, they are also entirely responsible for server management. WANMEI has asked them to align their servers to match things in China - which should simplify troubleshooting in the future. But that is again working through legacy code and settings (I'd be surprised if any original programmer is still around.)

Actually, it's not speculation. It's facts based on my experience in working directly with PWE and the developers in China. If you weren't aware, I have developed my own PW servers, as well as working out code fixes with the developers for the servers we play on.

Server hardware and server software are both technically server, but two separate things. The developers write the software code, it just runs on the hardware. PWE maintains the hardware only.

PWE does not make any changes or development for the game code at all. It is all done by Wanmei in China. PWE will send submissions for changes, but the actual changes are done by China. PWE does not have the access to touch the files on the server, and they only have limited access to make changes via a web console or GM accounts. (i.e. turning on 2x and manually starting events.)

As for the original developers, Archosaur Group was brought back into Wanmei to work on PW again, and that is who brought us the latest expansions with the new classes. They've been back for about a year and a half now. Archosaur Group is the original creator of the game that Wanmei purchased from them before it was fully completed.

While it's true that none of the China servers are PvE, the code has always been in the server for the function. It's merely flipping one bit in the server config file.

Hope that clears up some of your misconceptions.

cornflakes2014

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

Actually, it's not speculation. It's facts based on my experience in working directly with PWE and the developers in China. If you weren't aware, I have developed my own PW servers, as well as working out code fixes with the developers for the servers we play on.

Hi Sylen. Were you part of PWE or Wanmei/PWCN at one point? Or perhaps a contractor hired on to do something for them? It would seem unusual that you would be able to work directly with them and the devs, especially with code fixes because that would mean you have access to their code ... unless you were either an employee or contractor/consultant working for them. Software companies are usually very protective of their code as it is pretty much their bread and butter.

When you said you developed your own PW servers, do you mean you wrote it from scratch or you adapted their code for private use? Again, this is strange that a company would allow this if it was the latter. If it was the former, then wouldn't it be a major undertaking? If you have the know-how and time to develop a server of PW's complexity, why wouldn't you just develop your own game and team up with some client devs and either sell or run the game yourself?

This is something I've always wondered about as I know there are other games that have private servers running and I often wonder where the code comes from.

Not doubting you, just curious.

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

cornflakes2014 wrote: »

Hi Sylen. Were you part of PWE or Wanmei/PWCN at one point? Or perhaps a contractor hired on to do something for them? It would seem unusual that you would be able to work directly with them and the devs, especially with code fixes because that would mean you have access to their code ... unless you were either an employee or contractor/consultant working for them. Software companies are usually very protective of their code as it is pretty much their bread and butter.

When you said you developed your own PW servers, do you mean you wrote it from scratch or you adapted their code for private use? Again, this is strange that a company would allow this if it was the latter. If it was the former, then wouldn't it be a major undertaking? If you have the know-how and time to develop a server of PW's complexity, why wouldn't you just develop your own game and team up with some client devs and either sell or run the game yourself?

This is something I've always wondered about as I know there are other games that have private servers running and I often wonder where the code comes from.

Not doubting you, just curious.

A few years ago I worked with the test servers that PWE has, and also submitted code fixes for our version of the game to the Dev team in China. Most of the interactions were managed by the PWE CM for PWI and PWE management. It was mostly just on-the-side testing on a volunteer basis. I never got direct access to the PWI server, but the private builds I work with have the exact same source code.
It was quite a major undertaking, and simple things that required only minor changes to the code would still take a couple of months to fully test and implement. (Some changes are just too simple though, and one wonders why it would take them nearly 6 months to flip one character in a config file.)

They don't like me talking about my own server much, because technically it's not a legit thing, but as long as I'm not making money or selling services I keep well enough within rights to not get in trouble. I maintained private servers and worked on mods and code fixes primarily for myself and a few friends to play on. Largely we used it for TW training purposes.

As for the code, it's easy enough to get if you look around. Kossy or Venus would definitely pound me with the banhammer if I went further on that subject. b:surrender

I don't play with it anymore, but just before the new classes came out, I was able to run my server code at the same version as the live client if I wanted.


Back on-topic though, the change is just another DQ-Nerf to combat bots f-ing the economy up. You're not going to see it reverted.

orangeladey

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

Actually, it's not speculation. It's facts based on my experience in working directly with PWE and the developers in China.

You have spoken with both PWE and WANMEI personally in the past? Then could you aquire the answer to the topic of the forum you continue to ignoring? From their hand can you get word as to why the change to pot prices were made and the change in the NPC listing of them? If you don't address these question or the forum topic I warn that post erasure may occur for being off topic.


EDITed in Note: Okay, this took me too long to edit properly, so the post above this was written after I started, this. Still, do you have a reference to this being a continuation of the DQ nerf. THAT is one thing I am looking for. Anything else IS Speculation, as it is unsupoorted by evidence. I'd even count a 'someone official said xxxx' -just, specifics!

EDIT 2: Wiped away a bunch of comments of mine that only prolong the off topic-ness.

SylenThunder. Gratz on your servers. I figured out why I kept debating with you. It is because this is NOT a technical thread. I find the tech stuff interesting. As well as many other things. But we started nitpicking the hows of Perfect World and its implementation, but not the WHYs of those implementations.


MODS if we can get no officail word, or pointers toward official word, please close this thread.

bloodedone87

This is the first time that PW does changes to the game without anouncing them ...oh sheet.
OP what answer do you want them to give to you?
I can give their answer for you:
Yes now pots have 0 value and it will remain this way.Have a nice day.

opkossy

0 value is intentional because China.

The lack of text display at the Apothecaries is not intentional but rather, a side effect of removing the price display from the item entirely. A fix for it would be bringing back the price display with the redundancy of putting a zero on the price for selling.

And with that, I'm closing this.