[Maintenance Discussion] 2/24/15 COMPLETE

sondok

I would tell anyone who is spending money or planning on spending anymore on this game not to. Unless we are misconstruing it, sparkie says he doubts anything will be fixed anytime soon. And he's not a mod..he works for the company. To have a worker say that(one who does try their best) is a bad sign.

RankNine - Momaganon

dont worry guys, at least we got another diamond ring promo.

XXHotXx - Morai

lol

i am pretty sure i could do a better job managing the PWI department in just my spare time than what its being done right now, if still there is even a staff to manage.... because at this point i really doubt it

Joe - Morai

I believe that you guys are doing a major misinterpretation of sparkies post. Do you really think he means that the game will be gone for good? Heck have you looked around on some servers (I did on sanct and Morai)...the amount of new r9rr people is redicolous. People have charged the ***** outta this game. Why should they close it down? that just doesnt make sense.

Ok granted...it also doesnt make sense that they let the support lack that much considering how much they earn with this title. Sry, maybe I'm unrealistic...but never ever do they earn more money with a game like Neverwinter...especially considering how much they needed to invest to get it to the point it is atm.

The only logical way would be to merge servers. 1 PvP and 1 PvE server each region, morai stays the same.

On the other hand...there are loads of other MMOs currently out that I would play instead, so it wouldnt really hurt me that much. Just saying that besides PWI, PWE has nothing to offer that is interesting even in the slightest.

I could understand them shutting it down if things would actually go downsides in China. That isn't the case...its actualyl the opposite. PWE would only harm themselves if they shut PWI down. Zero supporting costs and the only thing they really need to do is localize already finished updates from CN.

Considering all of the above...the management really needs to be friggin **** to shut PWI down but in all honesty...I wouldn't be THAT surprised.

A game like "the felder mowls online" is going F2P soon or rather the same payment model as "Milk laws 2". I have absolutely no problem if they really do it under that aspect. Still those 6 months of farming for my SB will never come back...that sucks. Really.

RankNine - Momaganon

the people that charged a few hundred dollar for their new classes rank9 should consider this as fraud.

pwiyahoo

RankNine - Momaganon wrote: »

the people that charged a few hundred dollar for their new classes rank9 should consider this as fraud.

Isnt fruad, not even close.
PWE was only required to give what people bought. They bought in game gold. So the deal at that point was done and complete.
What a player uses that gold for is up to them. PWE met the requirements of the transaction.
It is how they get around when things dont come out on time , if at all.
If PWE said "here is r9rr on sale for $200" and you charge the $200, and dont receive it, then ya fraud. But they never said that anywhere.

iperen

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

lol

i am pretty sure i could do a better job managing the PWI department in just my spare time than what its being done right now, if still there is even a staff to manage.... because at this point i really doubt it

Same problem as usual imo : nobody around with the power+knowledge to actually decide something. PWI isn't the only place with this problem b:surrender

@ Joe : I couldn't go to the bakery this morning, ty for giving me my morning giggle anyway b:chuckle

XXHotXx - Morai

pwiyahoo wrote: »

Isnt fruad, not even close.
PWE was only required to give what people bought. They bought in game gold. So the deal at that point was done and complete.
What a player uses that gold for is up to them. PWE met the requirements of the transaction.
It is how they get around when things dont come out on time , if at all.
If PWE said "here is r9rr on sale for $200" and you charge the $200, and dont receive it, then ya fraud. But they never said that anywhere.

Not a fraud\embezzlement, but see it this way,

PWI took money in exchange for a service,
said service had a vexatious clause in his terms (service shutdown @ anytime at their will)
said vexatious clause requires a particular contract form that cannot be executed trough a web form
said contract is invalid and it will give rise to an invalid contract
invalid contract will give rise to full refund of the sums paid from the counterparts (costumers)

not to mention if the service is being shutted down without any before-hand action or any compensation of a conspicuos economic value, it will give rise to a breach of contract -> refund + interests

and not to mention in USA, class actions are pretty common, if all PWI customers will take part to a class civil action, we will talk about hundreds thousand+ lawsuit

and at last but not the least, if we discover\manage to prove somehow that the money income coming from PWI customers, had been used by the company for other purposes rather than pay PWI Staff\Support\Hardware w.e.
i am pretty sure there is the margin to charge PWE for crimes such embezzlement or other fraudolent behaviours\malicious administration which i dont really know the technical terms in english language

@pwiyahoo: i think USA, it's the only country yet that regulated the virtual currency transactions, if you purchase virtual currency such as ZHEN (as bitcoins), then that currency is plain being taken away from you, you are taking several risks (as a company based in the US)

P.S.: it takes less than the price of a dragon orb flame for a letter rogatory to go after PWE from any part of the world

Zoldi - Morai

RankNine - Momaganon wrote: »

dont worry guys, at least we got another diamond ring promo.

We don't need anything else than that.
b:thanks

iperen

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

Not a fraud\embezzlement, but see it this way,

PWI took money in exchange for a service,
said service had a vexatious clause in his terms (service shutdown @ anytime at their will)
said vexatious clause requires a particular contract form that cannot be executed trough a web form
said contract is invalid and it will give rise to an invalid contract
invalid contract will give rise to full refund of the sums paid from the counterparts (costumers)

not to mention if the service is being shutted down without any before-hand action or any compensation of a conspicuos economic value, it will give rise to a breach of contract -> refund + interests

and not to mention in USA, class actions are pretty common, if all PWI customers will take part to a class civil action, we will talk about hundreds thousand+ lawsuit

and at last but not the least, if we discover\manage to prove somehow that the money income coming from PWI customers, had been used by the company for other purposes rather than pay PWI Staff\Support\Hardware w.e.
i am pretty sure there is the margin to charge PWE for crimes such embezzlement or other fraudolent behaviours\malicious administration which i dont really know the technical terms in english language

@pwiyahoo: i think USA, it's the only country yet that regulated the virtual currency transactions, if you purchase virtual currency such as ZHEN (as bitcoins), then that currency is plain being taken away from you, you are taking several risks (as a company based in the US)

P.S.: it takes less than the price of a dragon orb flame for a letter rogatory to go after PWE from any part of the world

Even if it's not totally related in what you reply too, you should also add the pure business side of things. You can be certain that PWE will, in case of closing PWI, proceed to a compensation purely to keep the paying customers by redirecting them to another game of theirs. Same probably even for simply long-term f2p players.

But overall, ToS are like scarecrows. They create a wall that fends of a multitude of minor issues so as not to waste time on any tiny thing that pops up, but has no real use when it comes to big issues.

BTW, where does this fright of "PWI servers getting closed" come from ?

Zoldi - Morai

iperen wrote: »

BTW, where does this fright of "PWI servers getting closed" come from ?

From Joe's mind ?

More seriously, sparkie's post only confirms what we have all already noticed. PWE cares less and less about the game. They don't add the new content (new classes' skills and gears) as it could be expected, they don't fix bugs, even the one about TW times that they were used to fix quite fast in the past.
This doesn't mean that the servers will get closed though, just that they are really neglected.

XXHotXx - Morai

iperen wrote: »

Even if it's not totally related in what you reply too, you should also add the pure business side of things. You can be certain that PWE will, in case of closing PWI, proceed to a compensation purely to keep the paying customers by redirecting them to another game of theirs. Same probably even for simply long-term f2p players.

But overall, ToS are like scarecrows. They create a wall that fends of a multitude of minor issues so as not to waste time on any tiny thing that pops up, but has no real use when it comes to big issues.

BTW, where does this fright of "PWI servers getting closed" come from ?

a compensation for the interruption of a service you paid for, can only be in the terms of a monetary value,
no compensation in other forms will ever be approved by costumers either by a court



that has already happened for other games\titles


it's not a unlegitimate fright doe,
if the admin comes here and basically tells us that the game company isn't giving a sh.it at their "flag" title
means that things are going very very very downside


they are going to shutdown, or replace the staff or eventually let the community fade and migrate cause of lack of anything support-related

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver

Zoldi - Morai wrote: »

From Joe's mind ?

More seriously, sparkie's post only confirms what we have all already noticed. PWE cares less and less about the game. They don't add the new content (new classes' skills and gears) as it could be expected, they don't fix bugs, even the one about TW times that they were used to fix quite fast in the past.
This doesn't mean that the servers will get closed though, just that they are really neglected.

Obviously PWE is at fault for various reasons, but we should look at the wider picture too. PWE is struggling to get timely localisation of patches from PWCN, which is the real driving factor in why we are experiencing such delays in getting what we want. This is what I interpret from Sparkies frustration.

I think the underlying reason why this is apparent more so now than in the past is because we localised the initial expansion earlier than perhaps PWCN wanted and so there is a much bigger delay in localising the patch/update for new class culti skills and r9rr and PWCN is wanting to group up the patch for TW times fix with this, which according to Sylens post in another thread (which he did state to not quote him on) is expected mid March.

So there is still room for some optimism.

iperen

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

a compensation for the interruption of a service you paid for, can only be in the terms of a monetary value,
no compensation in other forms will ever be approved by costumers either by a court



that has already happened for other games\titles

Well, I think you missunderstood. PWE has all interest in getting out an accepted compensation, no matter what their legal position is. Agreeing while being illegal > court decision anytime for anyone. As long as people agree, nobody gives a **** about court or laws.

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

it's not a unlegitimate fright doe,
if the admin comes here and basically tells us that the game company isn't giving a sh.it at their "flag" title
means that things are going very very very downside


they are going to shutdown, or replace the staff or eventually let the community fade and migrate cause of lack of anything support-related

An employee that doesn't like the company he/she works for after being squished between customer and employer ... Where did I hear that before ? b:surrender Things like that should be taken with a few pounds of salt obviously.

Desdi - Sanctuary

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Obviously PWE is at fault for various reasons, but we should look at the wider picture too. PWE is struggling to get timely localisation of patches from PWCN, which is the real driving factor in why we are experiencing such delays in getting what we want. This is what I interpret from Sparkies frustration.

I think the underlying reason why this is apparent more so now than in the past is because we localised the initial expansion earlier than perhaps PWCN wanted and so there is a much bigger delay in localising the patch/update for new class culti skills and r9rr and PWCN is wanting to group up the patch for TW times fix with this, which according to Sylens post in another thread (which he did state to not quote him on) is expected mid March.

So there is still room for some optimism.

This is what I interpret from Sparkie's post as well, coupled with the knowledge of PWE and Wanmei/PWCN having poor communication between them, along with PWCN often making decisions for PWI that don't necessarily reflect what we actually need over here.

I think someone mentioned in a post once that the leveling pace in PWCN is different. If this is true, it makes sense that PWCN is fine with releasing the new race's skills later. It doesn't make sense for PWI though. Even a lot of casual players probably got to 100 within a month or less. And then there's that detail about PWE releasing the update sooner than intended. I, myself, was a little surprised at how soon we got it.

So I believe part of it is PWE's fault, but part of it is also Wanmei's neglect. I am also under the impression that Wanmei has been trying to get PWI closer to PWCN so that they can avoid making too many modifications to the patches. Latest updates seem to suggest this.

This situation isn't anything new, unfortunately, but it feels like it's worse than before with the severe lack of communication and updates. Like it's been said, in the past we would at least get a couple of patches with minor fixes (TW times for example).

It's best to just go with the flow I believe. Don't worry too much and just enjoy whatever the game has to offer. If it gets better, good. If it doesn't, oh well.

Asterelle - Sanctuary

It took PWCN 6 weeks to get the patch that added the Sage/Demon skills for the new class. Meanwhile we've had 2 and a half months of server restarts. Surely PWI is still capable of releasing the stuff that comes from China.

Evryn - Morai

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

Even a lot of casual players probably got to 100 within a month or less.

Or within a second or two, thanks to that double pill grant. That was an instant lvl 101 grant - of course, gear, culti and other grindable bonuses don't get added to the level, so you end up hugely underpowered for your level.

eirghan

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

This is what I interpret from Sparkie's post as well, coupled with the knowledge of PWE and Wanmei/PWCN having poor communication between them, along with PWCN often making decisions for PWI that don't necessarily reflect what we actually need over here.

I think someone mentioned in a post once that the leveling pace in PWCN is different. If this is true, it makes sense that PWCN is fine with releasing the new race's skills later. It doesn't make sense for PWI though. Even a lot of casual players probably got to 100 within a month or less. And then there's that detail about PWE releasing the update sooner than intended. I, myself, was a little surprised at how soon we got it.

So I believe part of it is PWE's fault, but part of it is also Wanmei's neglect. I am also under the impression that Wanmei has been trying to get PWI closer to PWCN so that they can avoid making too many modifications to the patches. Latest updates seem to suggest this.

This situation isn't anything new, unfortunately, but it feels like it's worse than before with the severe lack of communication and updates. Like it's been said, in the past we would at least get a couple of patches with minor fixes (TW times for example).

It's best to just go with the flow I believe. Don't worry too much and just enjoy whatever the game has to offer. If it gets better, good. If it doesn't, oh well.

Ill have to agree with this.

And also did anyone think to thank sparkie?

So many months (years?) of asking for an answer on dq items and we got one. Yes it's not the one we wanted, and the one we expected. But at least sparkie (frustrated as sparkie is) made an effort to shed a little bit of light for us.

I hope the sudden communication with the community on these difficult issues isn't endangering sparkies employment because i do start to wonder if PWE as a company really ever intends to communicate bad news with the playerbase (since they seem unable to communicate the good news as it stands).

And we are getting codes again which may not be DQ points, but it is something. So thank you Sparkie.

In any case it's nice to get a feeling for where things are at. Even if its fuel for more "pw is dying/dead" preachers on the corner b:laugh

GreenLegend - Archosaur

http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Perfect-World-Entertainment-Reviews-E285012.htm

That right there is worth the read. Explains a lot within the company from some posts...

Employee wrote:

Posted March 5th, 2014

...If a game is profitable, that is good enough. Text bugs are easy to fix, but all other issues are tossed in the database and left to rot indefinitely unless they have a direct effect on the game's cash flow. Emails to the overseas developers regarding issues are often ignored. If a game earns little money but has potential to be a really good game, there are few attempts to improve it; it instead receives less and less attention, causing it to perform even more poorly....

Zoldi - Morai

Evryn - Morai wrote: »

Or within a second or two, thanks to that double pill grant. That was an instant lvl 101 grant - of course, gear, culti and other grindable bonuses don't get added to the level, so you end up hugely underpowered for your level.

Kinda irrelevant in this situation because the pill couldn't be used on new classes.

So Desdi got a point while talking about the time needed to level up, but as Asterelle said, Chinese players got skills after 6 weeks anyway. Maybe this is because the expansion has been rushed in the first place, but PWE could put pressure on China once again.

Anyway, what surprises me the most is TW times. Because we know (they said it) they have the patcg, and this has happened already several times in the past and was fixed really faster

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Obviously PWE is at fault for various reasons, but we should look at the wider picture too. PWE is struggling to get timely localisation of patches from PWCN, which is the real driving factor in why we are experiencing such delays in getting what we want. This is what I interpret from Sparkies frustration.

I think the underlying reason why this is apparent more so now than in the past is because we localised the initial expansion earlier than perhaps PWCN wanted and so there is a much bigger delay in localising the patch/update for new class culti skills and r9rr and PWCN is wanting to group up the patch for TW times fix with this, which according to Sylens post in another thread (which he did state to not quote him on) is expected mid March.

So there is still room for some optimism.

Read this from the ToS

25. Interruption of Service

25.1 _ We reserve the right to interrupt the Service or any part thereof from time to time on a regularly scheduled basis or otherwise with or without prior notice in order to perform maintenance. You agree that we will not be liable for any interruption of the Service or any part thereof, delay or failure to perform resulting from any causes whatsoever.
25.2 _ You acknowledge that the Service or any part thereof may be interrupted for reasons beyond our control, and we cannot guarantee that you will be able to access the Service whenever you may wish to do so. We shall not be liable for any interruption of the Services, delay or failure to perform resulting from any causes whatsoever.
25.3 _ We have the right at any time with or without reason to change and/or eliminate any aspect(s) of the Service as we see fit in our sole discretion.
25.4 _ We are not obligated to refund all or any portion of any Account fee (if any), by reason of any interruption of the Service by reason of any of the circumstances described in paragraphs 25.1, 25.2.

Pay particular attention to 25.4.....

Zoldi - Morai

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

Read this from the ToS

Pay particular attention to 25.4.....

You're right regarding ToS. That being said, the fact thas us players agreed to the TOS by playing doesn't mean that the ToS are legit. This is important to know that.
What I'm writing is an overall statement though, I don't know US laws enough to claim that this particular point is not legit.

Asterelle - Sanctuary

Zoldi - Morai wrote: »

You're right regarding ToS. That being said, the fact thas us players agreed to the TOS by playing doesn't mean that the ToS are legit. This is important to know that.
What I'm writing is an overall statement though, I don't know US laws enough to claim that this particular point is not legit.

Consumer protections trump ToS. Once you pay real money for something a lot of laws kick in that can't be nullified by any contract.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

Asterelle - Sanctuary

sontzu wrote: »

Asterelle, is there any chance of you tweaking SweetieBot so that it can simulate gear forging multiple times, for example making a g16 gear 100 times, to see what addys you get?

You can make up to 5 forge requests in a single post on separate lines. Keep Sweetiebot requests in the appropriate discussion thread.

XXHotXx - Morai

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

Read this from the ToS

Pay particular attention to 25.4.....

it would've been better for pwi to not have that clauses in their ToS ( prolly the most vexatious clauses i've ever seen)
cause that clauses in a legal "environment", make the ToS "contract" invalid which brought to court will give rise to full refunds

In common law for instance when a clause completely moves the balance from one part to another in a contract,

the obliged part needs to accept every single vexatious cause with another different contract for each one of them clauses,
which contracts need to have the mandatory written form with an authenticated sign and most likely has to be registered if a conspicuous monetary value is involved (class action-> hundreds thousands bucks involved -> conspicuos monetary value)

now did anyone of us signed contracts for vexatious clauses here?
did anyone of us accepted them at any point?
would anyone of us have invested money in this service if we were aware of such clauses? (since we didnt sign them for acceptance we were juridically unaware of them)

3 questions that if brought to court will tear PWE apart

@Zoldi: in case CA laws do not have a tutelage against vexatious clause (which is a thing that i really doubt since its a pillar of contract law), you can always get an european court proceed trough letter rogatory and enforce your rights trough any worldwide court

c44102

sparkiesoft wrote: »

Wish I could tell you when anything, ranging from DQ points to this patch, will actually go live, but I can't. Not because I don't want to, and not because I don't care, but because I don't really know. The demon/sage skills were supposed to be in one of these patches, but the way things are going, I can't even say that will happen.

As for DQ points, as sad as this is to say, I really doubt that will ever come to fruition. The idea was to have this implemented in Arc, but with how that was taken over and is currently being run, I really doubt they care enough to implement it.

Why woudnt the demon and sage skills be in a part of our next patch? Sorry but that doesnt make any since. Its been months we should have been had them. Hell they should have been a part of the release when we got the classes.Same with the gear it should have all been there.Why are we not getting this stuff. We seen there has been HUGE updates for the other games before ours was even finished. What is really going on? Honestly its time to be honest with us!!!

bloodedone87

c44102 wrote: »

Why woudnt the demon and sage skills be in a part of our next patch? Sorry but that doesnt make any since. Its been months we should have been had them. Hell they should have been a part of the release when we got the classes.Same with the gear it should have all been there.Why are we not getting this stuff. We seen there has been HUGE updates for the other games before ours was even finished. What is really going on? Honestly its time to be honest with us!!!

They should have been a part of the release when we got the new classes if we were to get the new classes when wanmei wanted us to get new classes, not when PWE pushed the new classes to us.

Toliman - Raging Tide

c44102 wrote: »

...What is really going on? Honestly its time to be honest with us!!!

Read again. He had said to you already:

sparkiesoft wrote: »

...I don't really know. The demon/sage skills were supposed to be in one of these patches, but the way things are going, I can't even say that will happen.
...

bloodedone87

Toliman - Raging Tide wrote: »

Read again. He had said to you already:

He said he doesnt know that will happen reffering to these patches.
He doesnt said we will never get the skills for new classes.

Its just PW moving in slow motion like always.