Morai server unplayable

Joe - Morai

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The lack of network knowledge is strong with this one.
It takes only 1 node to **** out and you're done.
Not every client, oddly enough, connects through the same path for as far as I can recall.

I had times where I was playing with 2 characters on the same computer, 1 of them kept having 23k+ ping
the other was stable at +/- 100.

Just because a lot of people DC doesn't mean it's on PWE's server end still.

Never thought I'd be ding this...but:

+1

Zoldi - Morai

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Just because a lot of people DC doesn't mean it's on PWE's server end still.

You're right (even though you also can't be sure that it's not on the servers end).
Anyway even if the problem is not on the servers and is due to a problem on a specific node, PWE should investigate it as much as they can, and communicate

iperen

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Just because a lot of people DC doesn't mean it's on PWE's server end still.

Just because it isn't on PWE's server side doesn't mean that PWE can't or shouldn't do anything.

I'll gladly assume that you are right about the technical part. However, whether it's you, kossy or sylen, you all seem to live in some secluded environment. Big scale lag and dc issues should be exceptional. When they are recurrent, frequent and becoming systematic, it is PWE's issue and they should be able to do something about it for the zone they promote their server to be for.

The "not being able to do anything because it's in between" part applies to you as private person. This is not about technical knowledge. It's about knowing how to get things done by others and using your weight. Zoe's last post also indicates they can. They are either not very skilled or very poor at the management of this problem.

RankNine - Momaganon

SneakyZoe - Morai wrote: »

Don`t feed trolls like him Rank.

I received a qualified answer from my support ticket.
On my point of view it was a very good answer and I closed the ticket.
I wish, this full ticket answer would be also published in a general forum from official side.

My tracert from NW day sunday showed another routing through internet as I had on Monday.
On Monday I didnt had any issues anymore.
Most probably most of the people are still routed via the instable route at the moment.

Most responsibility about routings for the internet have the ISPs and not the end-users or PWI.
I am glad that PWI confirmed that they also talk with their ISP to avoid such issues.

But its also a fact that working speed of ISPs are not really brillant. Therefore, only way for a fast solution is to increase the pressure on them. But this only could happen, if we feed our technical contacts with more and more provided information about these issues in a polite way.

Respect to Hot, he bring up a smile onto my face with his video ... with a general direct managed communication we would may reduce the communication traffic between the technical contacts and end-users to have a lessons learned from his video.

so they actually talk to the whatever instance thats responsible for the "node" or whatever it even is? good news then.

marque20

This is not the place I know but I have no button that I can see to start a new thread. Trying to submit a new bug report and not sure where to go. Since main update my rb 100 veno has been dropped in culti to Aware of Principle. Tried everything the GM suggested including complete uninstall of game and arc with fresh install of arc and install of the game through arc. GM said they reported the bug and that's the last I heard, so can someone please help with this? Can't even get into seat anymore or in either the blue or red door for quests.

XXHotXx - Morai

@ demduchesin

whatever the problem it could be,

if it affects only this game,

if it affects the majority of the playerbase

it HAS to be a concern that needs to be addressed and solved by this game Company staff

the majority of the end users cannot run tracerts to find the rotten gateways then investigate and contact the ISP of such, to open a complaint or ask manteinance,

so what are we supposed to do now,
we pay for a service and then we also need to care and cure its actual (in)efficiency?

also servers are experiencing slight rollbacks, i bet thats not a server side thing right? Kappa

Evryn - Morai

It doesn't affect just this game Hot. Do a search for the buggy node on google - PWI isn't the only game with lag issues due to the pnap/bbnet peering acting up.

This cannot be solved by PWI. This is an issue at their hoster (or the ISP their hoster has contracted - not sure if InterNap is the actual hoster of the server). PWI should be complaining about service interruptions to them so that actions can be taken.


What do you mean with "slight rollbacks" by the way? That you upon logging back in after a DC end up a little back from where you were? That's normal, you freeze in place where your connection was dropped.

[Edit] I investigated this a bit further, it appears that Internap and BBNet are actually part of the same company - and is in fact the hoster of PWI. So this would fall fully on the hoster of PWI Inc. - and PWI should complain to them citing performance issues.

KrittyCat - Dreamweaver

Evryn - Morai wrote: »

It doesn't affect just this game Hot. Do a search for the buggy node on google - PWI isn't the only game with lag issues due to the pnap/bbnet peering acting up.

This cannot be solved by PWI. This is an issue at their hoster (or the ISP their hoster has contracted - not sure if InterNap is the actual hoster of the server). PWI should be complaining about service interruptions to them so that actions can be taken.

Technically, by what you just said, it kinda IS PWE's fault. They should be complaining to their hosts to let them know that there are connection interruptions with their service.

Now, we have no way of knowing if they've done so or are doing so, as that is on the business side of things, something they really don't discuss to the public.

XXHotXx - Morai

Evryn - Morai wrote: »

PWI should be complaining about service interruptions to them so that actions can be taken.

basically this^

this can't be done by the end users, this has to be done by the company!!!

some servers had rollbacks i read about dreamweaver, and sunday during NWs i believe we had a little one on morai aswell, thats a database problem, not sure if still caused by corrupted data being sent by the wrong node, but still

the end user cannot fix this problem!
company should take actions!

Evryn - Morai

To my knowledge Morai has not experienced any rollbacks of late. Rollbacks occur when the servers themselves crash - not when the connection between server and client gets interrupted.

KrittyCat - Dreamweaver

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

basically this^

this can't be done by the end users, this has to be done by the company!!!

some servers had rollbacks i read about dreamweaver, and sunday during NWs i believe we had a little one on morai aswell, thats a database problem, not sure if still caused by corrupted data being sent by the wrong node, but still

the end user cannot fix this problem!
company should take actions!

The rollbacks, from what I've read, have been mostly 30 minutes to an hour. That's more than likely just time from last database save, causing the last save to be loaded on reload. Character position is saved on the world map, which is saved fairly frequently.

That's why you might find yourself in the same spot you logged off in, but with various things not completed that you finished before the server went down.

opkossy

iperen wrote: »

Just because it isn't on PWE's server side doesn't mean that PWE can't or shouldn't do anything.

I'll gladly assume that you are right about the technical part. However, whether it's you, kossy or sylen, you all seem to live in some secluded environment. Big scale lag and dc issues should be exceptional. When they are recurrent, frequent and becoming systematic, it is PWE's issue and they should be able to do something about it for the zone they promote their server to be for.

The "not being able to do anything because it's in between" part applies to you as private person. This is not about technical knowledge. It's about knowing how to get things done by others and using your weight. Zoe's last post also indicates they can. They are either not very skilled or very poor at the management of this problem.

What you're failing to understand that the more technologically inclined have been saying is thus:

Screaming and ranting about lag, DCs, how it's not on your end, and so on and so forth without giving any real information helps all of absolutely nobody. More people putting in some effort like Zoe, Evryn, and others have done to get actually useful information means that for anything PWE can put some pressure on (this won't always be the case and people can be slow) they have that much more weight to use for it. On the other hand, the more people that behave like Hot and RankNine have in this thread, the less PWE (and everyone else for that matter) has to actually work with towards getting any hope of having anything done.


It's the difference between going into a store screaming about a defective product and getting kicked out because you're making a fool of yourself... and going into the same store, calmly asking to speak with a manager, and explaining/demonstrating what's wrong with your product so that they can deal with it to the best of their abilities. Most people here are, in essence, doing the former. The latter is what you'd want to do to get anything done though.



Edit: And screaming about compensation is just clutter. If they planned on it they'd do it and if not they wouldn't... and having people constantly screaming about it usually makes them more inclined to go for the latter.

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

OPKossy wrote: »

What you're failing to understand that the more technologically inclined have been saying is thus:

Screaming and ranting about lag, DCs, how it's not on your end, and so on and so forth without giving any real information helps all of absolutely nobody. More people putting in some effort like Zoe, Evryn, and others have done to get actually useful information means that for anything PWE can put some pressure on (this won't always be the case and people can be slow) they have that much more weight to use for it. On the other hand, the more people that behave like Hot and RankNine have in this thread, the less PWE (and everyone else for that matter) has to actually work with towards getting any hope of having anything done.


It's the difference between going into a store screaming about a defective product and getting kicked out because you're making a fool of yourself... and going into the same store, calmly asking to speak with a manager, and explaining/demonstrating what's wrong with your product so that they can deal with it to the best of their abilities. Most people here are, in essence, doing the former. The latter is what you'd want to do to get anything done though.



Edit: And screaming about compensation is just clutter. If they planned on it they'd do it and if not they wouldn't... and having people constantly screaming about it usually makes them more inclined to go for the latter.

To add to the store analogy...

What do you expect the store to do when there's a winter storm and their line to the sole supplier has been cut off due to delivery issues?
They can't switch to another supplier because the product only comes from the one location.
They can't get the product because there is an issue with the delivery system in between the store and the supplier.

That's basically the same thing happening to your packets. The store doesn't own the roads, and neither does the supplier. The issue happens to be with conditions on the roads between the two.

Evryn - Morai

Not entirely in this case, Sylen.

In this case the store (PWI) has contracted a delivery service (Internap) to deliver those packets to and from their consumers (you). Some of the roads are actually owned by the delivery service. It's like having a private access road to a major depot being full of potholes in them which causes trucks to break down. And that -is- the responsibility of said delivery service (Internap).

If the hoster has issues with some of their own routers, then PWI can hold them responsible for service interruptions. I'm sure there are service level agreements in place for this.

iperen

OPKossy wrote: »

What you're failing to understand that the more technologically inclined have been saying is thus:

Screaming and ranting about lag, DCs, how it's not on your end, and so on and so forth without giving any real information helps all of absolutely nobody. More people putting in some effort like Zoe, Evryn, and others have done to get actually useful information means that for anything PWE can put some pressure on (this won't always be the case and people can be slow) they have that much more weight to use for it. On the other hand, the more people that behave like Hot and RankNine have in this thread, the less PWE (and everyone else for that matter) has to actually work with towards getting any hope of having anything done.


It's the difference between going into a store screaming about a defective product and getting kicked out because you're making a fool of yourself... and going into the same store, calmly asking to speak with a manager, and explaining/demonstrating what's wrong with your product so that they can deal with it to the best of their abilities. Most people here are, in essence, doing the former. The latter is what you'd want to do to get anything done though.

You're comparaison is totally off, nor do you seem to understand that PWE doesn't really need those trace-thingies to get their service providers to move.

I'll make a real comparaison, since I'm very capable of seeing the issue considering I also run a company. If I sell something and have it delivered by a third party delivery company, and the customer only gets delivered half the stuff and with big delay, that's up to me to solve. Period. I should and will solve it as efficiently as possible, whether they yell at me or stay calm. That's of no importance.

If the customer can contribute because they have knowledge of where it could have gone wrong, that's nice. If I need specific information, I'll ask and they will provide if it doesn't take them to much effort. However, this kind of issue should always be exceptional. But in this case, it would be similar to delivery problems over and over again. That should never have happened to start with.

In your example it would be like you've been to the manager explaining/demonstrating what's wrong every time you need the product (which is pretty much dailly over the past 2+ months). Do you seriously expect that to just go on ethernally ? The stage you mentionned was 05 november 2014 (see french thread). It's time to move on. They are the professionals in this story. It's funny how on the French forum there is some baby steps going on. To bad most don't know French, because it also makes you contradict yourself because PWE doesn't really seem to know how to handle this.

So yeah, I expect PWE to be a little more professional then a group of 12 yo that offer to do my garden for a few bucks.

Zoldi - Morai

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

To add to the store analogy...
What do you expect the store to do when there's a winter storm and their line to the sole supplier has been cut off due to delivery issues?
They can't switch to another supplier because the product only comes from the one location.
They can't get the product because there is an issue with the delivery system in between the store and the supplier.

That's basically the same thing happening to your packets. The store doesn't own the roads, and neither does the supplier. The issue happens to be with conditions on the roads between the two.

I find a lot of your posts very useful, but I beg to differ on this one...
The store will have to communicate to its customers if the owner doesn't want people to get else where.

As an applications manager in a multinational company in my real life, if my end-users can't access to the applications because of the network, they will complain to me, not to the IT ressources in charge of the network. I will have to communicate and I will have to put some pressure on the network teams (even if they are tierce companies). And, even if this can be useful in some cases, I won't ask to those end users to perform some trace routes, I will ask to one of my ressource to do that.
If I don't do that, I will get fired... So I would expect the same from PWE. Test on their side, communication and so on... If Evryn found the information thanks to Google, I don't know why PWE couldn't... So yeah they can't do anything technically speaking but they can do some actions (they totally have to do that to satisfy their clients)

And I'm not complaining nor asking for any compensation. I'm just surprised to read they can't do anything (or don't have to)

Evryn - Morai

I doubt PWE has the resources (manpower) to permanently monitor their servers and the connectivity thereto. 'Though it is easily possible to put in some automatic monitoring of connection quality serverside. Just a small app that pings a few servers of ISPs across the globe could show when there's connectivity problems somewhere... There's plenty of freeware tools for that. Problem is that it takes time to implement and analyze the results when there has been a (partial) outage.

... and dedicating manhours to what used to be their flagship game isn't something PWI has been doing of late.

Zoldi - Morai

Evryn - Morai wrote: »

I doubt PWE has the resources (manpower) to permanently monitor their servers and the connectivity thereto.

I can understand that, and I'm not shocked when they asked for some trace routes to the players. But then they still have to analyze that, do the research you did, and COMMUNICATE.
What I find kinda surprising is considering that if the problem comes from the node then they can't do anything (even communicate about it) and that people just have to wait...

Evryn - Morai

To my knowledge PWI haven't asked the players anything (either that or I missed such a question). A couple of players, myself included, have started to analyze the lag issues - probably to try and do the work for PWI so that there's at least a chance that they will get it resolved. That chance being dependant on wether or not an admin reads this thread and thinks there's enough techy info here to make a case with their hosting company.

But given server outage threads usually spiral down into whining and demands for fixes/compensation, I doubt this is being read by the euro server admins and/or PWI tech support.

Jadsia - Lost City

Evryn - Morai wrote: »

Not entirely in this case, Sylen.

In this case the store (PWI) has contracted a delivery service (Internap) to deliver those packets to and from their consumers (you). Some of the roads are actually owned by the delivery service. It's like having a private access road to a major depot being full of potholes in them which causes trucks to break down. And that -is- the responsibility of said delivery service (Internap).

If the hoster has issues with some of their own routers, then PWI can hold them responsible for service interruptions. I'm sure there are service level agreements in place for this.

I'll be on Sylen's side on this issue due to the sole reason that those leased lines are public access. The service PWE is paying for is access to public lines which a lot of other people/industries have access to at the same time. It's like Sylen's road to the store analogy. Those roads are public and everyone else uses them too. Same with the power company's power lines. A main line is tapped to deliver power to all the customers. PWE cannot control the congestion to and from their leased lines when so many others have access to it. Just like a store cannot control other drivers on a road which services it. Sure the department of transportation is obligated to maintain the roads but neither they nor the store can prevent users from causing accidents/incidents which disrupts the flow of traffic on the road. Some people get stuck while others can take extra time to get to their destination by finding an alternate route. Would some people here demand that the store compensate potential customers because they are invonvenienced by the fact that they are stuck in traffic and can't get to the store and buy the things they want? LOL! I can come up with similar analogies with the power lines et al but I made my point.

Zoldi - Morai

I thought some people created tickets with trace route files following Ranknine's thread last month, but I'm not sure.
But I also read the french forum (since the Morai GM is french and so do I) and there is a thread there, were people gave those information and she said she transferred that to PWE IT team. It started more than one month ago but I didn't see anyone on PWE side communicating about this node that seems not to work correctly.

Edit : for non french speaking people I must add that she (the Morai GM) said that the IT team fixed some issues that occured on sunday night (which is the only day when I got issues on my side).

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

Evryn - Morai wrote: »

Not entirely in this case, Sylen.

In this case the store (PWI) has contracted a delivery service (Internap) to deliver those packets to and from their consumers (you). Some of the roads are actually owned by the delivery service. It's like having a private access road to a major depot being full of potholes in them which causes trucks to break down. And that -is- the responsibility of said delivery service (Internap).

If the hoster has issues with some of their own routers, then PWI can hold them responsible for service interruptions. I'm sure there are service level agreements in place for this.

Agreed, and when it's an issue with the Internap hosting, then I will always point the finger at PWE and their provider as is due.

In relation to the west coast connection issues, it's a problem before it hits the internap routers. PWE cannot control that. It's an international hub affected to boot, so we usually end up seeing some kind of issues there, but they typically don't last as long. California has had some really crappy conditions with the power grid the past year or so and that's compounded our issues there.

For Morai, I don't play on it and I haven't done any testing to the servers themselves, but it was posted earlier from testing that showed a similar issue with a large hub that was outside of PWE and it's network host.

The thing that no one seems to understand about the internet is that it isn't One Company, or One Path. You don't always know what roads your data will take, or what carrier will be trafficking the data. Some days you'll get Swift, and some days you'll get Two Men and a Truck.

Zoldi - Morai wrote: »

I find a lot of your posts very useful, but I beg to differ on this one...
The store will have to communicate to its customers if the owner doesn't want people to get else where.

As an applications manager in a multinational company in my real life, if my end-users can't access to the applications because of the network, they will complain to me, not to the IT ressources in charge of the network. I will have to communicate and I will have to put some pressure on the network teams (even if they are tierce companies). And, even if this can be useful in some cases, I won't ask to those end users to perform some trace routes, I will ask to one of my ressource to do that.
If I don't do that, I will get fired... So I would expect the same from PWE. Test on their side, communication and so on... If Evryn found the information thanks to Google, I don't know why PWE couldn't... So yeah they can't do anything technically speaking but they can do some actions (they totally have to do that to satisfy their clients)

And I'm not complaining nor asking for any compensation. I'm just surprised to read they can't do anything (or don't have to)

You're talking about an internal network though. If you have a user working remotely halfway across the globe, and they are having an issue with connecting, what do you do after you verify that everything in the local network and WAN is working like it should?

part of the problem is getting PWE to acknowledge anything, but it's also an issue with a majority of the end users just assume that there is this magical connection between their PC and the server.

laurahun

My problem same...i can't play during 1 months!!! Always 12k 24k more ping...today i needed to wait 6h only cause if i log in my char was totally useless...dont see mobs hp...ect...
I dont know what happening but admins see that fu cking server status maybe too much player????
Need expand server pc????
pr maybe need fix this problems???
Cause this before never was this problem for me....and i wanted to play...some firends stoped the game cause off game is useless and not internet problem was....only ping....soo...better if do anything or i need to finish this game...b:bye

Hisiala - Morai

But, Sylen, wasn't the problem localized on an ISP just outside PWI? In this case I would think they'd phone these people and at least ASK what was going on since it affected so many people at the same time all over europe rather than a few people in a localized zone.