Best build for Bm now - aps or not?

shuix0

Hi

I didnt play Pwi for like a year now and feel like a noob lol.
I just started fresh again as BM.
I only read up that hyper fc isnt working anymore and a friend explained me how to get to lv 95 with that item.
Now Im lv 95. I actualy wanted to make a fist/axe aps BM.
But my friend told me APS wont work anymore in BHs and other inis and dmg gets decreased with high aps.
He told me I should rather go full str but I still want my old school aps.


Sooo is aps actually totally useless now for BMs? Will I still do fine with fist/axe aps build?

Fail_BM - Raging Tide

300+ str/200 dex.

APS is useless for many things, but you can still get chi fast using fist. Axe path is a must have, Glacial Spike (pole) is also a must have, Star Smite (sword skill, you have to be reborn) is now a factor. There is no useless weapon path nowadays.

You are limiting yourself if you decide to skip any path.

shuix0

Fail_BM - Raging Tide wrote: »

300+ str/200 dex.

APS is useless for many things, but you can still get chi fast using fist. Axe path is a must have, Glacial Spike (pole) is also a must have, Star Smite (sword skill, you have to be reborn) is now a factor. There is no useless weapon path nowadays.

You are limiting yourself if you decide to skip any path.

This is pretty awesome because I didnt liked that blades and pole were obsolete for BMs before and nobody used those.
I still always had a blade with me on my bm years ago but rarely used it. Just for harpies in fc lol.

Salari - Raging Tide

yes, aps is not dead, just not needed as much anymore outside of chi gain and farming TT.

Sel_Darkmore - Dreamweaver

We are Warriors we are Blademasters, All weapons are usefull to us for we are the class thats ment to switch up given the situation.

I still have my aps set tho im using more of the Pole/Sword/Axe paths but fist/claws to be thrown out the window is a no no.

We still Got BoT very usefull if you can switch fast enough, SKill interupts (shadow Kicks) good for both pve and pvp if you got good timing, The Vicious Palm however is the most BS skill in the game dont even place it in a quickslot b:angry

Aps is not really useless its just depends, most new bosses got a "anti Aps buff" which i still want to throw my mouse at the screen when i see bms or sins still apsing on them bosses. or even go bow action for DD and not for the purge. In Pvp there has been few times it still can catch someone off guard. The main problem with Aps now is the pvp side of things when ur opponet is on the offensive, you will be too squishy vs the common gear of today, We dont have tidal to help negate alot of the status effects so trying to tank thru the incoming onslaught in aps gear is just gonna be painful.

When i doing a dailiy with mob count I will use aps just to save my mp food lol. cause damn atm i spending alot of my damn coins and divines for mp food b:surrender

Joshcja - Sanctuary

Its the cheapest gear set but ya claws are pretty useless, your just using it for bh/tt/lunar/chi/alts/abba/seat

Blades and poles are so great NOW there was never a time when these paths had damage output and utility ever. So I Looooooove that they now have skills that deal lots and lots and lots of damage can be acced into skill chain and can be cced and generate slightly less chi and damage than just punching on interval protected bosses and purify casters!!!!!

I mean the bm class is so varied and versatile now, I can use my axe macro and swap to pole for chi or I can use my axe macro and swap to swords for chi!!!!! And And And sometimes I swap to a pole for purge!!!!

WorryEasykil - Dreamweaver

Glad this thread is here. saves me starting a new one.

I take it, since all posts listed TT, that APS is still the way to go for farming it? if so, could someone please post the least expensive/ easiest to obtain APS build to solo to TT 3-3?

I always meant to make a tt farming BM, but with all the other toons I made, never had the time. I idd, however, pill one up and took it down the demon path. Still have a way to go getting skills and such, but I would like to start working on the gear. much appreciated b:pleased

WannaBM - Archosaur

WorryEasykil - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I take it, since all posts listed TT, that APS is still the way to go for farming it? if so, could someone please post the least expensive/ easiest to obtain APS build to solo to TT 3-3?

Basically it goes like this. You start with the cheap basic aps setup
2x lionheart TT99 & 2x ashura TT99 (ornies, sleevs and boots)
G15 pants
-int TM lunar cape
-int fist/claw

That makes 4 aps, for the 5th you need one of the expensive -int list. (in order of cost:)
-int r8r cheast (although there is a big random factor, so it could turn out to be not the cheapest)
-double int weapon
-int tome.
I would advise to get the weapon first because you dont want to be swapping out weapons after refining. With a little patience you should find a good priced double int weapon on the player market, usually in advertised in world chat. 250 - 300m or so.

That however is not really enough for 3-3. It is enough to do 2-3 if a bit refined.

To do 3-3 you probably want at least 1, prossibly both the other items from the expensive list. The first one you add allows you to swap your TT99 sleeves for G16 HA ones as well as the the boots. The second one allows you to swap the ornies for cube/warsong ones.

Note that the first swap will add some G16 to your setup (which you refine ofc) and thus greatly increase your pdef and HPs.
The second swap allows you to use a proper mdef ornaments. pdef is much more important in TT than mdef. You might even prefer not to use mdef ornies in TT, but using pdef ones would make you the laughingstock of the server as soon as you exit TT. And having both is ofcrouse kind of expensive. You could borrow pdef ones from an arcane toon if you have one though.

All that should be upgraded to at least +10 if you are not rebirthed with passives and war avatars etc, or +7 or so if you are.

Finaly there are the ultra epensive -int options: (in order of cost again)
-int r8r boots
-double int r8r chest

These are overkill, they will allow you to use a warsoul weapon and be special.

So to make a long story short:
Double int weapon +10
R8r -int chest +7
R8r boots no int (for set bonus) +7
G16 Sleeves and Helmet (set bonus) +8
-int cape +6
lionheart belt and amulet +6

optional, swap belt and amu with cube and warsongs and add pangu tome for the lost int.
optional, swap r8r armor for G16 and add pan gu tome instead because it is tradable.

2x rebirth with passives and 5x A cards + 1 S.

WorryEasykil - Dreamweaver

thanks for the reply. now I know what to aim for. I take it I am doing cirtine shards, what min level on those?

WannaBM - Archosaur

Shards are pretty bad in cost effectiveness. Id go for imaculates and if you have this all done and feel you need more HPs, spend your money on higher refines instead.

WorryEasykil - Dreamweaver

refines are going to be my achillies heal in all that. i have terrible luck. i once failed to +1 17 times in a rowb:shocked still, thanks for the advise. I think I can go ahead and do the boots and bracers and g15 pants. already have the lionheart necklace and belt.

WannaBM - Archosaur

And i should warn that this is really a bare minimum for 3-3. You will need practice, skills, the full spectrum of apoth and a good low latency connection.

I and my BM buddy still prefered to duo it when we were equiped like that, espescially steelation. It was kinda possible to kill everything solo, but there was the risk of dying, and that really sucks.
It really became easy when i got my R9 (barbs can 5aps in r9) and he got everything +10 with R9 belt from then on we soloed everything with 1 finger in our nose.

If you are looking to make money, i would also advise you to think about TM luner. BMs are they key toon to make it easy to duo. You just need a reliable partner. (An APS barb or a second BM is prefered). You can watch my youtube vid to see how it goes. This requires a similar value of gear, but more focussed on the HA and axe instead of APS. So that better fits the BMs general purpose. Eventually of course you want to be an allround BM that can do anything

shuix0

What endgame armor to get for aps BM if cant afford r9?


My plan was to make a mix with aps and g16;
aps ornaments, cape, NV int legs, tt99 int bracers+ tt99 feet,
G16 just helmet + Top for HP bonus.
And g16 claws which I think have no int but lots of atk lvl.

WannaBM - Archosaur

read my previous post about the aps gear. Normally BMs have 2 sets of gear (or at least a part of the gearset), one for APSing and one for axe tasks. You put them on buttonbars to swap in a second or 2.

If you are using cheap aps gear (what you listed) this is pretty much a must. If you are using what i listed as expensive aps gear that allows you to swap out the TT99, you could use that gear all the time in PvE if you dont want to afford double items.

For HA, if you dont afford R9, you get full G16 set.

G16 claws can have -int. Single -int comes about 1 in 7 rerolls on average. Double -int comes about 1 in 130 rerolls.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

Why would you bother with full g16 vana ever on a bm

Do you just sit down, look at gear sets, take a drink, and another, and another, and then wake up beside a full g16 set with a ring on your finger and spend the rest of your life either in mexico or trying to convince yourself it was a good plan?

WannaBM - Archosaur

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

Why would you bother with full g16 vana ever on a bm

Because he sais he cant afford R9 and thus should go for the second best ?

Joshcja - Sanctuary

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

Because he sais he cant afford R9 and thus should go for the second best ?

So what your saying is....

You have 2 choices.

A) Eat this delicious cake.
Eat broken glass

You can only pick B.

Strong logic.

Frankly for the cost of g16 you may as well just upgrade to full HA hybrid and pick up a nice tome. The bulk difference is completely negligible with full candleflame cards and both interval alt gear and candleflame's are still useable on your bm when you either reroll a better class or actually suck it up and get some dervishes.

"man I'm poor"

"Ok go refine 2 sets of armor"

Are you **** or ****....

WannaBM - Archosaur

are you an **** or an **** ?

You clearly are a stupid little ***** who resorts to calling people **** for no reason other than to think that will help you strengthen your argumentation. It doesnt.
Or maybe you just want to show how leet you are with your R9 by making a cake to broken glass comparison ?

A set of G16 and refining it to +7 costs less than a pan gu tome alone. and about 20% of the cost of R9. If its lunar G16, its tradable and nothing is lost if in the future he can spend R9 after all.
On top of that, he probably intends using 2 pieces of G16 anyway or up to 4 if he improves his APS set to swap out the TT99. So thats around half the cost there.

Now grow up boy and learn some manners.

QueNa - Sanctuary

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

Frankly for the cost of g16 you may as well just upgrade to full HA hybrid and pick up a nice tome. The bulk difference is completely negligible with full candleflame cards and both interval alt gear and candleflame's are still useable on your bm when you either reroll a better class or actually suck it up and get some dervishes.

You do realise that cards are random, right? One can farm FSP an entire year and still not get the set, or spend lots of coin/money and still not get the set.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

are you an **** or an ****? Yes, I thought that was an established fact by now. Now show me your belly in submission.


A set of self farmed untradeable tt99 G16 costs slightly less than a pan gu tome and refining it to +7 will cost you another pan GU but who cares because your still completely irrelevant in pvp with +7 g16. If its lunar G16 expect to dump even more coin into it at base cost, its tradeable and he can sell it for 1/2 its refine/shard value later on if he's really really patient.

Fixed. The only selling point of full g16 is you can share it with a seeker alt so its probably worth if you make one of those, but even then you get a raw deal compared to simply upgrading ye olde int set. Lets face it you'd rather stick the cheap barb alt, archer alt, and sin alt in interval.

@ whatsyourface: Card sets are random, I had no idea, I thought the boxes I got were just mixed with love.

DemonAsh - Archosaur

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

Why would you bother with full g16 vana ever on a bm

Do you just sit down, look at gear sets, take a drink, and another, and another, and then wake up beside a full g16 set with a ring on your finger and spend the rest of your life either in mexico or trying to convince yourself it was a good plan?

so u basically saying full g16 set not worth for bm ? well i think u did not had seen full g16 bm or old school 5 aps bm soloing every thing like tm luner , 3-3 or such and also rolling good in pvp too with full g16 set.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

DemonAsh - Archosaur wrote: »

so u basically saying full g16 set not worth for bm ? well i think u did not had seen full g16 bm or old school 5 aps bm soloing every thing like tm luner , 3-3 or such and also rolling good in pvp too with full g16 set.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH

Archasaur barbs are adorable in a super down syndromy way.

DemonAsh - Archosaur

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH

Archasaur barbs are adorable in a super down syndromy way.

i guess u never had seen good g16 bm or play one.. talk with exp not ego lol..i dont have to prove wt full g16 can do.. u might take a good look around or sanctuary server just dead as i had heard b:laugh

WannaBM - Archosaur

If its lunar G16 expect to dump even more coin into it at base cost, its tradeable and he can sell it for 1/2 its refine/shard value later on if he's really really patient.

And this proves more ignorance. I make a profit refining lunar gear with tisha and tienkangs and then selling it to other ignorant people who only can think in terms of dragon orbs.

And besides the matter what a BM can do with G16 in itself. (of course it is not as strong as R9 and im sure noone will deny that) It is about what those 2 or 4 swap parts do in comparison to the BM using APS gear to pull lunar,warsong,PV and more as well as do PvP. And that difference is big for a small extra cost, that he will be able to gain back later.

Kniraven - Lost City

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH

Archasaur barbs are adorable in a super down syndromy way.

Your private server play doesn't amount to anything in the real game.
I'm sorry you couldn't make the cut, got bitter, and left. I'm sorry your idealized glory days are over and the BM class evolved and is no longer what you thought that it should be.

Private servers have different gear availability, which changes the entire meta of the game. Even making the assumption that a private server had the same gears, the availability is much different. Costs dictate what is common and the average builds you will face on a server which in turn changes what is better here or there.

Obtaining any decent card set is expensive, and much more difficult than farming NV3 (which is very easy to farm by the way).

Tome prices have also shot through the roof.

Attack and Defense levels make a big difference.

I have 3 sets of gear. (Full NV3+10), (Full R9.3 +10&11), (NV2,NV3,&R8R APS Hybrid Set +10). The Aps set is great for killing archers 1v1, and thats about it.

In PvE the DPS of the interval is much better than the NV3 set, but it is only useful when solo'ing older instances that don't have bosses with anti-aps buffs and when killing a single mob at a time.

The R9.3 set has much better DPS with an Axe, than the interval set has even with +12 fists. The difference in attack levels and strength is astounding.

In PvP, The Interval set is the most pathetic by far. Sure, you can cc a single opponent in like a duel or something and aps them down fast, but in any form of group pvp whatsoever you are a 1 shot to just about the entire populous.

In terms of any form of PvP and in group PvE, full NV3 is far better than a hybrid set in just about every way.

Colum - Raging Tide

Lol people claiming g16 is bad gear have probably never tried it...

WannaBM - Archosaur

In PvE the DPS of the interval is much better than the NV3 set, but it is only useful when solo'ing older instances that don't have bosses with anti-aps buffs and when killing a single mob at a time.

The R9.3 set has much better DPS with an Axe, than the interval set has even with +12 fists. The difference in attack levels and strength is astounding.

I hate to go and disagree with you while we are all happilly debasing all of Joshcja`s bollocks, but in the light of new players asking about gears, i think they shouldnt be mislead by wrong information. In this day and age there is a lot of APS bashing and people saying it grew useless. While there surely are arguments to back that up to some degree ,the damage output is not one of those.

My BM buddy and i both have R9.3 +12 axes and G16+10 fists. Not considering HF, the barbs damage output is slightly higher with both (in the case of exes due to the onslaught crit bonus, in the case of fists due to the 100str for the barb who can wear R9 apsing), but that aint that great a difference and all in all, the toons are very similar.

I tested my R9.3+12 axes in comparison with my G16+10 fists on several TT3-3 bosses. The fists do nearly twice the damage per second. When i say nearly, i really mean nearly. 190% or so. At equal refines, it will be 200% or more. And for that testing i did use CE and sparked as much as i could while using my axes.

As for these anti aps arguments: I would absolutely not advocate to forget about APS all together. Certainly not on a BM, but also not on a barb. However while in the old days it would make sense to first focus on your APS set (so you can do FC and TT for experience and income), i think it would now make more sense to first focus on your HA. Certainly before going for the vast expenses of the advanced APS set that is needed for TT3-3. There is no more FC, value of TT mats keeps dropping, you can do 2-3 with a cheap set of aps gear and it makes the same money per hour as 3-3, there are other options to generate income with your HA, you will want to rebirth soon and for the new instances clearly you want a full set of HA.

Kniraven - Lost City

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

My BM buddy and i both have R9.3 +12 axes and G16+10 fists. the barbs damage output is slightly higher with both (in the case of exes due to the onslaught crit bonus, in the case of fists due to the 100str for the barb who can wear R9 apsing), but that aint that great a difference and all in all, the toons are very similar.

I tested my R9.3+12 axes in comparison with my G16+10 fists on several TT3-3 bosses. The fists do nearly twice the damage per second. When i say nearly, i really mean nearly. 190% or so. At equal refines, it will be 200% or more. And for that testing i did use CE and sparked as much as i could while using my axes.

The commonly solo'd bosses which require you to spark more than 2 times can be counted on 1 hand. I can kill just about any Boss in the game with +12 R9.3 Axes much faster than fists.

Every single Twilight Temple Boss up until 3-2 can be killed in a single spark.
Every single boss in frost can be killed in a single spark.
All of the older FB99 Bosses can be killed in a single spark.
The majority of lunar bosses can be killed in a single spark.
3/6 WS Bosses can be solo'd in 2 sparks.

If you have full end game gear on a BM, you will pretty much always kill things faster with axes than with fists, because the gear and skills made available to us are not focused on aps. The new passive damage buffs don't work with auto-attacks, we don't have interval rank 9 gear like barbs, and we don't have a wood damage buff.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

Oh look, the failures have formed a support group, daaaw its ok you'll be real bm's someday. Or not and will remain laughingstocks. Either way its a win for quality.

But I digress.

tome on sanctuary server = 400-500 mill
Dervish axes = 1.2 billion
g16 = 50-80 mill per peice x6
+7 = 40-70 mill per if your not lucky enough to have a massive tisha/tienkang stash
Immaculate shard = 1 mill

Low end cost of g16 +7 with x3 immaculates per = 558 mill
High end cost of g16 +7 with x3 immacs per = 918 mill

Buying absolute low end on sanc your looking at that g16 costing as much as a pan gu, and at high end you have a set of real endgame axes and can deal actual damage in pvp. Or a full set of really really really good interval gear. Aka the kind you actually solo 3-3 in.

But hey lets pretend farming g16 has no opportunity cost and every single bit of investment can be reimbursed at a profit later (ahahahahaha). Then lets pretend any of you are half competent (your not but we'll pretend).

And then lets talk game mechanics.

A blademaster will deal 91% of the damage he would deal in full g16 with only jones + unicorns
A blademaster will take 15% less damage than he would in full g16 with a def level axe

A blademaster is functional in interval for pve and has a better matchup against g16 in pvp.

Any group pvp large or small on an older server involves r999 and then your flat out ****ed regardless.

For the same price as g16 HA that you will use half the time on 1 char buy a GOOD interval set with comperable base def, a tome, and a r8r def level wep, then if you really want a set of g16 buy AA and share that + your interval and have a full stable of alts all of whom get much much much more bang for your buck than a bm in g16 vana.

TL:DR: Nothing under r999 has enough of a stat gap to justify buying 2 full sets much less the cost of competitive shards, and refines. With good money management and with intelligent gear choice + actual skill with the class g16 provides less damage and def per coin spent vs other players below the tier of r999 than a good interval set. The amount of coin required to catch g16 up to intervals efficiency on a bm is such that you may as well just buy r999.

TL:DR:DR: G16 is garbage, and dumb, dumber, and sage are really bad at this game.

Kniraven - Lost City

NV3 can be farmed easily for free in less than a week.
It has better stats, defense, bonuses, damage, you name it than any APS set.

In current PvP meta, high aps is trash against everybody but archers.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

NV3 can be farmed easily for free in less than a week.
It has better stats, defense, bonuses, damage, you name it than any APS set.

In current PvP meta, high aps is trash against everybody but archers.

Learn to read.

But hey lets pretend farming g16 has no opportunity cost and every single bit of investment can be reimbursed at a profit later (ahahahahaha). Then lets pretend any of you are half competent (your not but we'll pretend).

The current pvp meta is r999 or your garbage so, yes. Interval simply has more bulk per coin spent and the ability to threaten a wider range of other nonfactors within the non r999 submeta. (read, drop everyone not packing NW ornies + high refines, full buffs including SB mele buff, or purify like they're made of wet paper) "But primal and skills and stuff" you say, Nope non dervish axe damage is still completely pitiful

To explain g16 vana is basically r9 first cast, for casters this is great and a cost efficient way to get ok gear. For bm's your trying to pvp other r9 first casts with no GOF and man does that not ****ing work. Hell in first cast era how many bm's even did small group/1v1 pvp in full r9. Nobody good thats for certain.

TL:DR: Opportunity cost is a real thing. Playing under r999, r8r interval gains more bulk per coin than dual set g16/interval and gains the ability to pick off targets of opportunity in small group. G16 split set gains 9% mroe axe damage in full g16.