The Truth about Def and Att Levels.

Joe - Morai
Joe - Morai Posts: 1,299 Arc User
edited December 2014 in Arigora Colosseum
So, I guess it's time to finally clear that game from the distorted view most people have about Att and def Levels. Here goes:

First off, what I'm about to write is most effective in 1on1-scenarios and one should always take into consideration as to what he/she wants to do with the char.

"Any difference above 100 between Attack and Def levels and vice versa is absolutely useless and a waste of potential."

As easy examples I'd like to take the classes with Att-Level buffs (sins and psys). Why is it absolutely stupid to shard them either full deity or full josd? Because it's a massive waste of potential that will only play out in the least of cases.

A full deity, end-game geared sin with jones bles got ~230 Attack Level. Now which class can get 130 def lvl or more? Only seeker (ya psys too, but in that mode they are no threat). I'm also not counting in def lvl weapons as they are only a kind of decoy. The average fully josd-sharded player got ~110 def lvls with the omallies.

So why do you need to have 230 attack level? While leaving yourself totally open with only ~45 def level. Each and every endgame geared player got ~140 Att levels with a jones bles. Try using 8 josd/16 deities instead. That way you'll have ~214 Att lvl and 61 def level which already significantly decreases the dmg you reveive from non-deity sharded people while still have the 100 att-lvl edge over most players. You lose nearly no dmg while increasing your dmg by far. Furthermore, while not fighting josd geared people you can also switch to omallies to have ~76 def lvl and still 200 att lvl. Anything above 200 att lvl is sufficient and does only slightly differ with further increase.

Personally as a sin I'd go 12 josd/12 deity. That way you'd still have over 200 att lvl with jones and a huge survivability against anything non-deity. Would it be a disadvantage if you'd fight with a deity sharded player then? no. because those would have the 100 att-lvl edge over your def lvls anyways and vice versa.

See, no disadvantage at all. Cept if you wanna get the max outta PvE dmg.

xD It's even more amazing with psys and their voodoos. The combinations you can do with that are amazing. Personally as a psy, I'D go 16 deity/8 josd. That naturally would require absolute control over voodoos where your standard (all time) voodoo would definitly be white voodoo.

That would get you basic stats of (jones/omallies) ~170/61 - 155/76. In white voodoo that would be 71/132 - 56/147 and in black voodoo 195/50 - 180/65.

The numbers speak for themselves. The advantage over pure deity or pure josd sharding is that depending on your strategic use of the voodoos you'll have the edge in most fights. 147 def lvl are enough to withstand even deity sharded players and 195 att lvl are enough to blast through even josd sharded players.

It is really disappointing that I've NEVER seen anyone doing that. Sure the advantage as psy/sins would be the greatest due to their buffs but any class gains from mixture sharding. Full deity/full josd are only effective in the least of cases leaving you wide open or unable to kill your enemy or both. IMHO the only class that should stick to pure josd are seeker. Def lvl are seekers edge in any way and maybe as BM/sin/veno/cleric if you wanna be pure supporters without the need to kill that much.

Anything I wrote can be proven by anyone interested in it and with a little bit of testing.

I just wanted to clear up that myth that there is a steady increase in dmg/dmg reduction with the increase of Att/Def lvls to no limit. That is simply not true. The cap of the dif is 100 (the dmg does increase after that but only very slightly and in no comparision to the dmg reduction you'd gain with extra def lvls or vice versa)
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Post edited by Joe - Morai on

Comments

  • DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver
    DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,355 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Asterelle made a thread back in 2010 explaining this, and as for the mix of deities/josd perhaps it's just your server or you haven't seen that many builds as I'm 16/8 and it's not exactly a rare build on my server.

    Link to Asterelle's thread
    Attack level exactly cancels out defense level but attack level has diminishing returns while defense level has constant returns.

    Not entirely sure whether all of the statements you made in your post are true but I don't have time to check the math now.
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  • Joe - Morai
    Joe - Morai Posts: 1,299 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Asterelle made a thread back in 2010 explaining this, and as for the mix of deities/josd perhaps it's just your server or you haven't seen that many builds as I'm 16/8 and it's not exactly a rare build on my server.

    Link to Asterelle's thread



    Not entirely sure whether all of the statements you made in your post are true but I don't have time to check the math now.

    Oh ok, ya especially cause of this thread I always wondered why people don't take the full potential outta def and att levels.

    And ya, none on my server and none on any other server I've ever played on (not even those where everything is free xD)

    It's pretty hard to tell if Def lvls have deminishing returns simply because there is no possibility of getting more than 100 def lvl over the att lvl of your opponent endgame-wise.
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  • DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver
    DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,355 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Oh ok, ya especially cause of this thread I always wondered why people don't take the full potential outta def and att levels.

    And ya, none on my server and none on any other server I've ever played on (not even those where everything is free xD)

    It's pretty hard to tell if Def lvls have deminishing returns simply because there is no possibility of getting more than 100 def lvl over the att lvl of your opponent endgame-wise.

    Well you have three options:

    Full Deity (FD)
    Full JoSD (FJ)
    Hybrid (xD/yJ)

    Which option is best for you depends on your class and it's role strengths and weaknesses and also your play-style and build if applicable. It also depends on your main and common opposition on your server.

    I'm from the school of thought where balance is everything, I'd rather have a balanced attack and defence, glass cannons don't survive as well as tanks but tanks don't deal as much damage as glass cannons so being in between is ideal for most situations although in specific situations it may have been better to be one or the other.

    From my Archer's perspective I have pretty OP cards and spirit last I checked, so sharding full deity wouldn't really be the best option as I get plenty of attack power from cards and would haven't got issues in mass PvP taking out most targets, so stuck with my JOSD build and switched 8 to Deity. If people start catching up then I'll consider switching more to deity. Archer's have only a few defensive options when compared to other classes, but have moderate/decent attack on something that isn't fully endgame or equal geared so going higher with JoSD makes more sense for my toon atm.

    When we TW I usually lead the TW and also lead a squad within it, so being extra tanky really helps to maintain presence in enemy territory and have eyes on to direct squads and being able to kite back and regroup without dying is also a major asset.

    From a str barb's perspective having all those natural defensive skills having more deities to capitalise on the zcrits is clearly the favoured option.
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  • Joe - Morai
    Joe - Morai Posts: 1,299 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Well you have three options:

    Full Deity (FD)
    Full JoSD (FJ)
    Hybrid (xD/yJ)

    Which option is best for you depends on your class and it's role strengths and weaknesses and also your play-style and build if applicable. It also depends on your main and common opposition on your server.

    I'm from the school of thought where balance is everything, I'd rather have a balanced attack and defence, glass cannons don't survive as well as tanks but tanks don't deal as much damage as glass cannons so being in between is ideal for most situations although in specific situations it may have been better to be one or the other.

    From my Archer's perspective I have pretty OP cards and spirit last I checked, so sharding full deity wouldn't really be the best option as I get plenty of attack power from cards and would haven't got issues in mass PvP taking out most targets, so stuck with my JOSD build and switched 8 to Deity. If people start catching up then I'll consider switching more to deity. Archer's have only a few defensive options when compared to other classes, but have moderate/decent attack on something that isn't fully endgame or equal geared so going higher with JoSD makes more sense for my toon atm.

    When we TW I usually lead the TW and also lead a squad within it, so being extra tanky really helps to maintain presence in enemy territory and have eyes on to direct squads and being able to kite back and regroup without dying is also a major asset.

    From a str barb's perspective having all those natural defensive skills having more deities to capitalise on the zcrits is clearly the favoured option.

    Agreed and thank you. You seem to be a respectable person. Neat.
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  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Attack levels do not give diminishing returns, it's the other way around. Everything else in that post says otherwise, and Asterelle is just too lazy to correct a many years old post.

    The reason some choose all attack levels is because they play in mass PvP settings where they are always fully buffed and personal defense is less of an issue. For example, one wizard's consideration for Deity was whether he would be able to one shot people with certain level of gear and below with BT, and that's efficiency in TW.

    So some do make calculated decisions like that.
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  • Evryn - Morai
    Evryn - Morai Posts: 1,437 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Diminishing returns was prolly a bad word here. The difference between attacker attlvl and defender deflvl just has a cap, where fewer deflvls or higher attlvls no longer matter. That's what Joe was getting at I think.

    Personally, I think it'd have made more sense to give att/deflvl differences diminishing returns as well. Wouldn't be a bad idea to -still- implement that. It'd, at least partially, solve the gear gap between endgame and sub-endgame, and force people to consider sharding in phys/mag/vit/hp again if JOSD's just don't cut it. More variety. Good thing.
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  • Joe - Morai
    Joe - Morai Posts: 1,299 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Attack levels do not give diminishing returns, it's the other way around. Everything else in that post says otherwise, and Asterelle is just too lazy to correct a many years old post.

    The reason some choose all attack levels is because they play in mass PvP settings where they are always fully buffed and personal defense is less of an issue. For example, one wizard's consideration for Deity was whether he would be able to one shot people with certain level of gear and below with BT, and that's efficiency in TW.

    So some do make calculated decisions like that.

    There are quite heavy diminishing returns, at least on the att lvl side. Try it ijs. Take a clean g16 fist and hit on someone whose dif to your att lvl is 100, then add att lvls to it. 40 more att lvl result in ~8% more dmg. That can be ignored.

    That is why I said that any att lvl value above the dif of 100 is a waste. That is a fact.

    Besides that, surely, I'm not saying being full deity or full josd is a waste. It just depends on what you wanna do with your char. If you always wanna be far above the def lvl of your opponents or if you know you're fighting a full josd guild then ofc deities would be the best choice.

    But I wrote that too xD
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  • zenmonkeyzzz
    zenmonkeyzzz Posts: 48 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I think the game is a lot to blame. Everything about levelling encourages you that the more damage you do the quicker the mob/boss goes down etc.

    Bloodpaint means seeker / BMs / sins will favour damage output over defence concerns. Arcanes are encouraged ( bullied even ) into going full MAG.

    Everyone gets the G16 weapon before armour and refines it higher etc.
    People rely on buffs / genies / apos / squad heals for survival.

    As you say some situations call for balance. I imagine even farming things like TT or lunar would be easier with a 'balanced' toon, as attack levels will become less useful even quicker there.

    But you make a well-argued point and some of those addicted to really big numbers would do well to learn from it.
  • opkossy
    opkossy Posts: 11,177 Community Moderator
    edited December 2014
    There are quite heavy diminishing returns, at least on the att lvl side. Try it ijs. Take a clean g16 fist and hit on someone whose dif to your att lvl is 100, then add att lvls to it. 40 more att lvl result in ~8% more dmg. That can be ignored.

    That is why I said that any att lvl value above the dif of 100 is a waste. That is a fact.

    Besides that, surely, I'm not saying being full deity or full josd is a waste. It just depends on what you wanna do with your char. If you always wanna be far above the def lvl of your opponents or if you know you're fighting a full josd guild then ofc deities would be the best choice.

    But I wrote that too xD
    It's not that the returns diminish. It's that it's a constant based on a set base. Take someone with 100 attack levels against someone with 0 defense levels and if that person deals 1k base to them then they're now dealing 2k. Give that person another 100 attack levels and they now deal 3k. It's only a 50% damage boost compared to what they had with 100 attack levels, sure... but each attack level is still adding the same amount of extra damage.

    Defense levels is the opposite where the more defense levels you have above your opponent's attack levels, the less each defense level adds to that. So unlike attack levels where your 101st will give the same extra damage as your 1st, with defense levels, the 1st will give a bigger reduction than the 101st. Reason for that is the same as the reason why we have defense caps: to prevent total immunity to attacks outside of special effects.




    Want an easy test? Have a sin (or psy) hit you unarmed and unbuffed with 0 attack levels and record the damage since you'll always deal the same damage without a weapon on. Next have them do it with an o'malley. Then a Jones. Then Jones + an attack level buff. Note the exact amount the damage is altered by at each point and you'll realize it corresponds to 1 attack level = 1% of the base amount they hit you for gets added when you have no defense levels. If you DO have more defense levels than their attack levels (or any defense levels at all, for that matter), then you can calculate the change based on the diminishing returns defense levels provide to see that each attack level added cancelled out a defense level.







    While the general point you're saying about not needing to go for pure deity is mostly accurate from purely a 1v1 standpoint.... not many people who make the choice do it for 1v1s and you can't discount the efficiency it provides in situations outside of 1v1s.
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  • Keisari - Raging Tide
    Keisari - Raging Tide Posts: 384 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Guess Kitty could clear it a bit.

    In general the more attack levels you have over the target's defence level, less effective every new attack level ish. The relative effectiveness of certain attack level ish totally dependent on target's defence level.
    If defence level ish higher than attack level, every defence level over attacker's attack level ish 1,2x as effective compared to case where attack lvl=def. lvl or attack lvl>def. lvl.

    From PWpedia:

    if ( attack level > defense level ) then:
    damage taken = damage delivered * ( 1 + ( attack level - defense level ) / 100 )
    if ( attack level < defense level ) then:
    damage taken = damage delivered / ( 1 + ( 1.2 * ( defense level - attack level ) / 100 ) )

    If attacker had 100 attack levels and defender had 0 defence levels, attacker does 100% more damage and next attack level, 101, would increase damage by 0,5%.

    If attacker still had 100 attack levels, but defender had 70 def. levels this time, attacker does just 30% more damage and next attack level, 101, would increase damage by 0,77%, which ish 56% more effective than a new attack level against enemy without any.

    If attacker had 100 attack levels, but defender had 140 defence levels, attacker does just 67% of the damage compared to attacking defender with defence levels equal to attacker's attack levels. Next attack level, 101, would increase damage by 0,82%. Why so little? 'Cause att. lvl<def. lvl and thus defender gains 1.2*boost.

    *To be continuad*
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  • JennyBlazes - Harshlands
    JennyBlazes - Harshlands Posts: 48 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    well, here is what I think is broken, PVE wise, but suppose you had to do it to make pvp more interesting. This is fact too..as i have both of these toons i am about to describe.

    First R9rr psy, HP sharded ( i know rare) +10 weap jones bless, black voodoo, 189 attack lvls with cards and 720 spirit, this is my pvp toon true, but, you will see in a min what is broken.

    Second, g-12 to g-16 cookie cutter 5 aps sin with +10 g-16 daggers and HP sharded. 70 attack lvls at 5 aps or in deep chill 2.22 at 100 attack lvls, also only 105 spirit with spirit coin gblessign cause toon is not reborn, and 4 c-cards. this is my farming toon, true, but again, you will see in a min what is broken.


    ok, so I did a test, full out demon sparked on a ? boss in TT, with my psy, and did 15 secs of dammage, hit cloud erupt, chi pot, spark again, hit macro, switch to sin.

    wolfe emblem, no spark, run in , attack, just auto attack, 5 secs..... I have agro....

    Keep in mind this is WHILE my caster is still in spark.

    Now I love it, don't get me wrong, the fact that if done right, you can very cheaply gear a toon to farm great endgame PVP gear for another...but let's please beef up the pve capabilities of these end game casters, something with over 100 more attack lvls, reborn 2x, with an endgame +10 2x saph gem weapon should out DD that g-16 +10 one soc perfect garnett shard weap any day of the week!
  • _BIackRose_ - Raging Tide
    _BIackRose_ - Raging Tide Posts: 91 Arc User
    edited December 2014

    A full deity, end-game geared sin with jones bles got ~230 Attack Level. Now which class can get 130 def lvl or more? Only seeker (ya psys too, but in that mode they are no threat). I'm also not counting in def lvl weapons as they are only a kind of decoy. The average fully josd-sharded player got ~110 def lvls with the omallies.

    So why do you need to have 230 attack level? While leaving yourself totally open with only ~45 def level. Each and every endgame geared player got ~140 Att levels with a jones bles. Try using 8 josd/16 deities instead. That way you'll have ~214 Att lvl and 61 def level which already significantly decreases the dmg you reveive from non-deity sharded people while still have the 100 att-lvl edge over most players. You lose nearly no dmg while increasing your dmg by far. Furthermore, while not fighting josd geared people you can also switch to omallies to have ~76 def lvl and still 200 att lvl. Anything above 200 att lvl is sufficient and does only slightly differ with further increase.

    lol you severely under estimated seekers here xD i'm only DoD sharded still working on my jades. but i can get up to 140 def lvls on my own. with r8 and full JoSD i can push up to 170+ def lvsl pretty easily. tho R8 serves the same effect white voodoo does in most cases. its to help increase your survivability. however seekers in particular have another bennifit going full jades.

    as i am sure just about everyone knows by now, seekers have sacrificial slash, which drops 40% of your def lvs, and gives 50% of wha... (pfft math is too intricate here, let me dumb it up.) it gives 20% of your defense as attack levels while dropping your defense by 40%. it is actually entirely plausible (but highly unlikely xD, but thats another topic.) to get a seeker with over 200 def lvls. to make math simple i'll use that as a base since most seekers are around 170+ jaded in r8. r9rr seekers also have around 130 attack lvls base.(pretty standard r9rr base) we will mark these values as AL/DL (130/200)

    40% of 200 equals 80 wich means SS gives 40 attack lvls and leaves you with 120 defense. so you now have 170/120. now QPQ the debuff. the opponent loses 80 defense levels and your debuff is gone bringing you up to 170/200 and that has a nasty effect of dropping the opponent's defense levels by 80 so we'll use the examples you gave we'll say 130/110. (basic r9rr JoSD no buffs)

    now you have 170/200 and your opponent has 130/30. so the effect is monstrous. unless they manage to immune the hits or purify it. they will usually be one shot, and if they do purify it, you can switch to r8 again for 200 defense levels, wich even the strongest deity sharded players would have trouble with.


    now the next point. this is something i've noticed personally. defense and attack levels are greatly outclassed by spirit. i am DoD sharded currently (working on jades) and can easily get 140 def lvls. usuing the same combo i have 154/140 now take a t3 player (seeker). t3 +3-5 about 10k hp 90/70 (if i remember could be higher its been a while) i debuff them by 56 def lvls they have 90/14.

    so in short i'm attacking 154/140 vs 90/14 and i deal 6k damage .-. crit. i am in no way out geared. r9rr +5 DoD vs t3 +5 flawless. yet i lose. why? they have over 400 spirit on me. spirit seems to stack more then defense/attack levels. my spirit is pretty low being first rebirth so it happens pretty often. i would guess the average x2 rebirth player has 500-600 spirit. and the end game pleyers typically have around 700-900 easily (the most OP have over 1000)

    now given the same circumstances on equal spirit they hit me 1-3k 5-6k with a crit. i one shot them 20-30k.

    i would be interested in knowing exactly how spirit stacks vs defense levels. i'm sure it would have influenced what i got first in game. is the difference really so drastic?
  • DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver
    DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,355 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    i would be interested in knowing exactly how spirit stacks vs defense levels. i'm sure it would have influenced what i got first in game. is the difference really so drastic?

    DoDs cost about 150m so 11bn for full Deity/JoSD, for which let's say you could get at least 6 S cards fully leveled that go in the right slots. This sounds about right, I know someone posted a cost calculator for S card chances somewhere so correct me if my assumption is way off.

    Comparing 48 att/def lvls vs the difference between lvled random S cards and lvled random A cards.

    I.e the difference
    HP: +630
    Phys. Attack +458
    Mag. Attack +458
    Phys. Res.: +907
    Mag. Res.: +999
    Spirit +116

    So let's assume the average opponent has r9rr and random A cards lvled. I.e. 140/45 and the same spirit as you.

    If Attack Level > Defense Level:
    damage = damage dealt * (1 + (A - D)/100)

    Getting 48 def lvls: Multiplier goes from 1.95 to 1.47 and damage wise this works out at (24%)

    attack power changes for seekers;
    a sacrificial slash
    140+(93*0.2)=157 att lvls vs opponents def lvl of 8 i.e. multiplier of 2.49
    vs
    140+(45*0.2)=149 att lvls vs opponents def lvl of 27 i.e. multiplier of 2.22

    i.e. if you hit 10k before you'd hit 11.2k after (12%)

    Looking at the S cards option:

    Spirit advantage of 116 so you hit 11.6% harder and take 11.6% less.

    Weapon attack advantage of 458
    assuming attack multiplier of 8 say you hit 10k on someone that means your weapon attack is 10000/8 = 1250 so increasing this by 458 means that 10k hit is now 13,664 (36%)

    So in summary assuming my math checks out and ignoring the pdef/mdef boosts,

    JOSD: 24% less damage taken, 12% more damage dealt (if seeker)
    S cards: 11.6% less damage taken, 47.6% more damage dealt
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  • Rhahiki - Morai
    Rhahiki - Morai Posts: 44 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    The Truth is so bright, I feel so enlightened b:thanks I'm miserable next to your intellect b:shocked

    But more seriously :
    Specific situation + unproven/unreferenced statement as base + unorganized progression + excessive lenght can't really be presented as "Truth".

    If you really feel like you need to do this, just do it correctly. Your post is below highschool level. I know you can do better then that Joe.
  • XXHotXx - Morai
    XXHotXx - Morai Posts: 1,246 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    by the way we need someone to test how spirit works in pvp, cause i really believe it's capped at some point

    i have almost 1.3k spirit so i should theorically get no damage from who has 300 or less spirit, this doesn't happen i still get 3 digits consistent damage
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  • DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver
    DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,355 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    by the way we need someone to test how spirit works in pvp, cause i really believe it's capped at some point

    i have almost 1.3k spirit so i should theorically get no damage from who has 300 or less spirit, this doesn't happen i still get 3 digits consistent damage

    I presume it's capped at 95%.
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  • Joe - Morai
    Joe - Morai Posts: 1,299 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    The Truth is so bright, I feel so enlightened b:thanks I'm miserable next to your intellect b:shocked

    But more seriously :
    Specific situation + unproven/unreferenced statement as base + unorganized progression + excessive lenght can't really be presented as "Truth".

    If you really feel like you need to do this, just do it correctly. Your post is below highschool level. I know you can do better then that Joe.

    xD I don't wanna waste the time to do so. I said that anyone can test it out and see that I'm right. Why should I do that? For me it's always the safest road to say...if you wanna know that I'm telling the truth then go check it out yourself. Some people will call BS even when I present videos and calculations. I don't want that. If they are trying it out themselves they can't call BS.

    The add to that...testing like that gives something to do to some people which is great xDDD
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  • Rhahiki - Morai
    Rhahiki - Morai Posts: 44 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    xD I don't wanna waste the time to do so. I said that anyone can test it out and see that I'm right. Why should I do that? For me it's always the safest road to say...if you wanna know that I'm telling the truth then go check it out yourself. Some people will call BS even when I present videos and calculations. I don't want that. If they are trying it out themselves they can't call BS.

    The add to that...testing like that gives something to do to some people which is great xDDD

    The majority of your original post is filled with pointless blabla that serve no purpose, because you don't want to waste time to write around 10 lines for a basic justification of the statement that supports your whole standpoint ?

    I suppose that I'm just disappointed because I was expecting at least a post with a beginning, a logic based progression and eventually a conclusion. That's normally learned at highschool. Saying that takes time is an excuse. It saves times.
  • Joe - Morai
    Joe - Morai Posts: 1,299 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    The majority of your original post is filled with pointless blabla that serve no purpose, because you don't want to waste time to write around 10 lines for a basic justification of the statement that supports your whole standpoint ?

    I suppose that I'm just disappointed because I was expecting at least a post with a beginning, a logic based progression and eventually a conclusion. That's normally learned at highschool. Saying that takes time is an excuse. It saves times.

    xD nah, it saves you time, not me.

    Besides that I want anyone interested in it to find it out for themselves. I'm merely giving vague directions. The quest to knowledge is a quest that anyone needs to do alone?

    Or are you people that kind of people which blindlessly believe anything when it's made up in a professional way? I've been always against it. Not that I couldn't sell a refrigerator to an eskimo, oh surely I could if I wanted to but what's the use?

    One can't believe anything that others present them as the truth. They oughtta search the truth themselves. Only what you can grasp wih your own eyes/mind is what you can truly believe and even that isn't 100% reliable.

    So in short. I acknowledge your critics but I keep on doing it the way I do out of pure convigere.
    My Barb:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#146464

    My SB:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#141476
  • HideYoHubby - Archosaur
    HideYoHubby - Archosaur Posts: 995 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I honestly dislike deities on pretty much every scenario. Only PWI is bit different due massive gear difference on top to most people. Even gear I would not go deity even for mass PK, lack of def levels just makes you go splat before you can react to AA.
    __Sami__ - Archer - 105/103/102 - mypers.pw/1.8/#132088 - Active
    HideYoHubby - Assassin - 105/101/101 - Inactive
    WnbTank - Barbarian - 103/101/101 - Catshop