Why unregulated PvP (NW/TW) sucks...

XXHotXx - Morai

pwiforever wrote: »

Joe stop crying man and better start recruit ppl for your faction... Wtf u want... What would be if leaders of 2 factions will start ask before enter tw: how many people u have? how many r93rs u have? how many catas?etc. thats stupid.. in tw 60% is strategy and 40% gear. but since u never took part of a guild with good strategy u cant know..b:bye

the unseen cata is the deadliest

i stopped to count the tws we won (we lost few of them aswell tho) while being outgeared\outnumbered just by bding catas and proxying with attack squads :-)

strategy on tw is pretty much 7-80% of it

but then if you have top 3 factions allied and sharing assets there is really nothing much you can pull to contest Winner title

Ahira - Lost City

Shrinking player base make this unavoidable. Less people playing and the ones with better gear mostly tend to congregate together in nw/pvp parties/tw factions- no amount of meddling with rules etc will change that.

Evryn - Morai

Joe - Morai wrote: »

For example: faction A got 40 participants and faction B got 80. So now an ingame system would notify the leader/direx/Marshals from Faction B that they are only allowed to take 40 with them and would have to chose which 40 to take til ~an hour before the tw actually starts.

The people that are chosen in the end get automatically ported into the territory and the fight begins. This little Thingy would balance out TWs immidiatly.

No, this would just exclude any lower geared players from the TW - and cause TW-focused factions to no longer accept members geared less then R9+10. This would benefit only the endgame fight-to-win folks who can then clump together and effectively deny lesser geared factions the ability to win through numbers. Crisis tried this initially when that faction formed - just a bunch of R9's clustering up and wiping the floor with smaller factions... then whining when larger factions simply overran them with sheer numbers. They've since begun wider recruitment - and this is starting to show in their TW performance.

If you do this kind of thing, you HAVE to take team gear strength into account, and since that's impossible to put a number to (given it's dependent on type of gear, stats, refinement, war avatars, nuema tiers, meridian state, title quest bonuses and whatnot) it isn't possible to balance out TW teams on numbers alone.

WannaBM - Archosaur

Evryn - Morai wrote: »

No, this would just exclude any lower geared players from the TW - and cause TW-focused factions to no longer accept members geared less then R9+10. This would benefit only the endgame fight-to-win folks who can then clump together and effectively deny lesser geared factions the ability to win through numbers. Crisis tried this initially when that faction formed - just a bunch of R9's clustering up and wiping the floor with smaller factions... then whining when larger factions simply overran them with sheer numbers. They've since begun wider recruitment - and this is starting to show in their TW performance.

If you do this kind of thing, you HAVE to take team gear strength into account, and since that's impossible to put a number to (given it's dependent on type of gear, stats, refinement, war avatars, nuema tiers, meridian state, title quest bonuses and whatnot) it isn't possible to balance out TW teams on numbers alone.

Indeed,

Thats why imo you need to balance it on results. IE, make it harder for factions to survive with more lands. For example by givng their enemies a spirit bonus or by having their lands be attacked by multiple enemies at the same time (without the option for the defenders to move from one land to another like and thus still defending multiple lands with the same players)
Thats just very basic and it of course if you are goig to try and balance TW, you gather ideas from all sources, then go discuss and play test and fine tune etc.... But it doesnt matter, were just hypothesizing here, nothing is gonna happen, if only because we are discussing something on the international forums that the chinese devs will probabaly never read

XXHotXx - Morai

Evryn - Morai wrote: »

No, this would just exclude any lower geared players from the TW - and cause TW-focused factions to no longer accept members geared less then R9+10. This would benefit only the endgame fight-to-win folks who can then clump together and effectively deny lesser geared factions the ability to win through numbers. Crisis tried this initially when that faction formed - just a bunch of R9's clustering up and wiping the floor with smaller factions... then whining when larger factions simply overran them with sheer numbers. They've since begun wider recruitment - and this is starting to show in their TW performance.

If you do this kind of thing, you HAVE to take team gear strength into account, and since that's impossible to put a number to (given it's dependent on type of gear, stats, refinement, war avatars, nuema tiers, meridian state, title quest bonuses and whatnot) it isn't possible to balance out TW teams on numbers alone.

I need to clarify that Crisis requirements never had been r9r3+12 + gears,

if you assume that who left Requiem and created Crisis was an idea to create a faction just by endgame members you are wrong,
cause we, the players that left Req to re-create Crisis, are playing together since the start of Lothranis (ex-Reign) we just unmerged from Req due to TW unbalance.

Also if for "wiping the floor with smaller factions" you mean current season TW and previous season TW winners... well... check my videos from last TW season

Crisis goal never had been to fight unchallenging factions so we never did, the week after we unmerged from the dominant faction on the server we attacked them with even just 20ish members

Things started to go downside when last season's TW winning faction merged 1-2 other TW factions while we lost half of our key members due to quits or leaves

Then this season, assets from this faction + more assets from the 2nd strongest, joined the former TW season winners.

What is stupid is that i see players from this top 3 factions sharing assets to fight us, we can attack anyone on the map (that would be a challenge) but we end up to always fight almost the same nucleus of players, that also should be a bannable offence (http://pwi-wiki.perfectworld.com/index.php/Rules_of_Territory_Wars @ Alliances and @ Independent leadership)
funny how the factions we managed to beat, then got bid by their stronger allies to reposition on the map and prevent us to reach\attack them (happened with templer @ start of season, and with revision 2 weeks ago)
but even if we would've lost, we had 2+ hours tw, it was a ******n good fight, why prevent that to happen again?

and then really wonder if my faction retires who is the server gonna fight against?
the current politics on morai are deadly poisonous for the challenge and for the server activity, just check how many Requiem members quit after they overpowered the faction that much that they got 5 months of wined tws :-)

the point is that we dont need better\more strict rules, we just need active GMs that know the playerbase and the factions, and they need to enforce the current TW rules and prevent cancerous - rule breaking alliances\politics to happen

Evryn - Morai

At the risk of going offtopic...
I didn't even know Crisis split off from Req. At the time I assumed most their members came from Absolve as that faction crumbled shortly after Crisis came into play. To me personally, it seemed as a merger of stronger players from various factions in an attempt to make a fist to both Requiem and Revision at the time. That both factions suffered coordinated ganks shortly thereafter was... convenient. Crisis was rumored to be the instigator of that, and was wiped from the map not long afterward. Revision won that TW season in the end (after taking in a lot of members from DeStress I believe). But that was there and then. This season Requiem seems dominant, with Revision, Crisis and Templer vying for second place.

But honestly? If PvP/TW dies on Morai I won't shed a tear for it. It's not a PvP server, so PvP events aren't the focus. I just wish there'd be more of a challenge on the PvE side, something that actually tests the players ability rather then it's gear.

the point is that we dont need better\more strict rules, we just need active GMs that know the playerbase and the factions, and they need to enforce the current TW rules and prevent cancerous - rule breaking alliances\politics to happen

If the GMs would start enforcing rules - there's better places to start then with the TW ones. I'd applaud them for doing so, but in all the time I have been on this server, I have yet to see it happen.

Joe - Morai

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

I need to clarify that Crisis requirements never had been r9r3+12 + gears,

if you assume that who left Requiem and created Crisis was an idea to create a faction just by endgame members you are wrong,
cause we, the players that left Req to re-create Crisis, are playing together since the start of Lothranis (ex-Reign) we just unmerged from Req due to TW unbalance.

Also if for "wiping the floor with smaller factions" you mean current season TW and previous season TW winners... well... check my videos from last TW season

Crisis goal never had been to fight unchallenging factions so we never did, the week after we unmerged from the dominant faction on the server we attacked them with even just 20ish members

Things started to go downside when last season's TW winning faction merged 1-2 other TW factions while we lost half of our key members due to quits or leaves

Then this season, assets from this faction + more assets from the 2nd strongest, joined the former TW season winners.

What is stupid is that i see players from this top 3 factions sharing assets to fight us, we can attack anyone on the map (that would be a challenge) but we end up to always fight almost the same nucleus of players, that also should be a bannable offence (http://pwi-wiki.perfectworld.com/index.php/Rules_of_Territory_Wars @ Alliances and @ Independent leadership)
funny how the factions we managed to beat, then got bid by their stronger allies to reposition on the map and prevent us to reach\attack them (happened with templer @ start of season, and with revision 2 weeks ago)
but even if we would've lost, we had 2+ hours tw, it was a ******n good fight, why prevent that to happen again?

and then really wonder if my faction retires who is the server gonna fight against?
the current politics on morai are deadly poisonous for the challenge and for the server activity, just check how many Requiem members quit after they overpowered the faction that much that they got 5 months of wined tws :-)

the point is that we dont need better\more strict rules, we just need active GMs that know the playerbase and the factions, and they need to enforce the current TW rules and prevent cancerous - rule breaking alliances\politics to happen

Hot, no one really has something against you guys, at least none that I know.

Personally, if I'd ever happen to leave Schicksal then I would most likely join you guys, if you'd let me that is

And as the current trend...like you already said..it's getting worse again. People are gathering in only a handful factions and the TW actions get really lame again. Take Schicksal for example. We had great Fights against Epsylone and cause we always won, some members (their strongest) decided to leave Epsy and join Elysium. That sucked tbh! Isn't it more important to have great fights then to win all the time?

And now...Schicksal is too weak to compete with any of the 4 big faction currently owning the map. But meh, I don't mind that much, after all its just tw.

Zoldi - Morai

Joe - Morai wrote: »

*Take Schicksal for example. We had great Fights against Epsylone and cause we always won, some members (their strongest) decided to leave Epsy and join Elysium. That sucked tbh! Isn't it more important to have great fights then to win all the time?

b:laugh Are you assuming that former Epsy members that joined us (Elysium) did that because of their TW versus Schicksal ? You're far from the truth then, and I don't think any of them told you that.


@Evryn : I can confirm that Crisis was a really old faction on Lothranis and that the people that recreated it were all former Reign members back in Lothranis time. Reign was the second strongest faction on Lothranis before the merge (and they won one season there if I remember correctly) but few days after the merge they were all in Requiem (fusion between Requiem from Momaganon and Reign from Lothranis). After they won the first season on Morai, Reign people decided to go back where they came from. Why did they choose Crisis instead of Reign ? Because one of their members was Crisis leader long time ago and because there was some issues with the faction base in Reign. But despite the name it totally was the same faction.

Chornobog - Archosaur

Joe - Morai wrote: »

Hot, no one really has something against you guys, at least none that I know.

Personally, if I'd ever happen to leave Schicksal then I would most likely join you guys, if you'd let me that is

And as the current trend...like you already said..it's getting worse again. People are gathering in only a handful factions and the TW actions get really lame again. Take Schicksal for example. We had great Fights against Epsylone and cause we always won, some members (their strongest) decided to leave Epsy and join Elysium. That sucked tbh! Isn't it more important to have great fights then to win all the time?

And now...Schicksal is too weak to compete with any of the 4 big faction currently owning the map. But meh, I don't mind that much, after all its just tw.

Problem is not big factions but small factions which don't want to or think they are unable to do tws. And i can see so many smaller ones which could do quite ok in tws between themselves.
Well,
one if you dont try you will never succeed,
two they will never gain tw kinda experience and those who want tw will choose between few factions on map.
third thing is that, biggest factions has no intent to take lands from smaller facts if they have other choice.
fourth, its uncompetitive, because people with g16 or whatever they choose to be their endgame gear, from what i see very rarely refine, shard well. then they leave qqing they are one shot (i hardly ever see g16 guys having +10 weapon or gear, mostly its +7-8 max and using +40 HP gems, and in pvp using hp/mp charms, phys m def charms etc etc). and they rather invest tons of coins in alts. i remember main thing when i started PWI after break on PW - M, all i mostly hear used to be refine and shard to get better. now it become get r9.... and there are so many rank9 ppls now which are still one shot.

so in this discussion i kinda see biggest problem not in politics and rules but in people themselves.

adding up to whole discussion:
To Hot - it is not Requiem who wine tws, but all other factions. Now you publicly admit wining tw, when wine is forbidden by PWI rules. It is you who damage your favorite word "competitive" telling people not to go to tw.

So maybe rules should be improved and more serious actions should be taken on "wined tws"? because now you just send 1 character to tw to make it "not wined [officially]". And like that go around rules? Attended tw should be at least 1 full squad attending tw (that would make 10 people) and maybe, just maybe, would things would change.

but remembering old lothranis times i did like unwritten rule leaving some map area for smaller factions (i think it was map north) to fight between themselves what helped them to keep most of members and not scattering around to 3-4 main factions.

so maybe we should remember kindly this "tradition" from next season?

Joe - Morai

Zoldi - Morai wrote: »

b:laugh Are you assuming that former Epsy members that joined us (Elysium) did that because of their TW versus Schicksal ? You're far from the truth then, and I don't think any of them told you that.

Nah xD nobody told me that...but it just appeared to be liek that. Anyways...we had great fights ._. some of elysium could have joined epsy to equal out stuffs...that could have beenso much fun

XXHotXx - Morai

Joe - Morai wrote: »

Hot, no one really has something against you guys, at least none that I know.

Personally, if I'd ever happen to leave Schicksal then I would most likely join you guys, if you'd let me that is

And as the current trend...like you already said..it's getting worse again. People are gathering in only a handful factions and the TW actions get really lame again. Take Schicksal for example. We had great Fights against Epsylone and cause we always won, some members (their strongest) decided to leave Epsy and join Elysium. That sucked tbh! Isn't it more important to have great fights then to win all the time?

And now...Schicksal is too weak to compete with any of the 4 big faction currently owning the map. But meh, I don't mind that much, after all its just tw.

lol, well we lose to faction x, someone from z trashes us
we win\lose vs faction z someone from x trashes us
we win\lose vs faction y someone from x trashes us

how come we arent hated

check the map we have less lands than schicksal or elysium do cause top 3 strongest factions unnecessarly ganked us all season long

on a normal server, weaker factions attack the strong one to try take it down
on morai top factions are allied and gank the smaller ones

morai "aliens"

how if crisis and schicksal f.e. merge and perhaps wipe them all, should we?

Zoldi - Morai

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

check the map we have less lands than schicksal or elysium do cause top 3 strongest factions unnecessarly ganked us all season long

on a normal server, weaker factions attack the strong one to try take it down

You consider Crisis deserves more lands than Elysium ? Why ?
This is not as if Elysium has never been "ganked" this season.
And Elysium did try to attack Requiem, it was a really big mistake... 10 minutes TW and now they take all our lands. I don't complain, this is how the game is and I currently prefer being in Ely with no land rather than being in Requiem. What's the point of having all the lands if every TW is wined anyway ? That's not as if TW salaries were 50M a week. But why do you feel that persecuted ?

Even Schicksal could now argue that they're getting ganked since Revision decided to respawn on them while they were already under Elysium attacks

Rhahiki - Morai

Joe - Morai wrote: »

But meh, this is going to far xD I tried several times forcing people to believe it. If you don't wanna believe, no one can force you. I can just say what I wanna say and it's up to everyone to either believe me or to think that I'm a psycho. You're choice (:

I don't think you're a psycho, I just see you are unable to understand or respect different standpoints. There is no reason to argue with you, because everything you say is based on rigid assumptions I do not agree on. You always go in a semi-bashing mode, probably to taunt others into fighting you, to gather with a ridiculous exageration multiplier. That gets boring really fast.


@ Hot : I think you missed a part in Joe's Wall'o'text. It was simply a "IF your (Joe's) suggestion will get implemented, THEN we'll see things like that (gear recruitment) as result because you favour the best geared players at the sacrifice of the rest". Out of the factions serious on TW, I don't think any has a real gear requirement. At least, not that I've noticed from merge till now.

Chornobog - Archosaur

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

lol, well we lose to faction x, someone from z trashes us
we win\lose vs faction z someone from x trashes us
we win\lose vs faction y someone from x trashes us

how come we arent hated

check the map we have less lands than schicksal or elysium do cause top 3 strongest factions unnecessarly ganked us all season long

on a normal server, weaker factions attack the strong one to try take it down
on morai top factions are allied and gank the smaller ones

morai "aliens"

how if crisis and schicksal f.e. merge and perhaps wipe them all, should we?

And you don't see your own fault in any of that? I would really like to remember those days when Crisis was remade and how your whole faction acted. You made gank on Requiem when you left. And they still showed up for all TWs they could possibly make with the numbers they had then.

This is how they grew up. Thanks to you.

And it was you and your guild's masterplan under which such factions as distress, vindicate etc. dissapeared from map, which was pretty "competitive" before your politics started. So stop crying now

XXHotXx - Morai

Zoldi - Morai wrote: »

You consider Crisis deserves more lands than Elysium ? Why ?
This is not as if Elysium has never been "ganked" this season.
And Elysium did try to attack Requiem, it was a really big mistake... 10 minutes TW and now they take all our lands. I don't complain, this is how the game is and I currently prefer being in Ely with no land rather than being in Requiem. What's the point of having all the lands if every TW is wined anyway ? That's not as if TW salaries were 50M a week. But why do you feel that persecuted ?

Even Schicksal could now argue that they're getting ganked since Revision decided to respawn on them while they were already under Elysium attacks

We beat Elysium on the field more than once with more than 1\3 of your current members that were ex-Crisis members\officers\core,
we've been ganked by 2 or 3 factions a week and sometimes Elysium took part to those ganks,

while we are absolutely FAR from having the numbers for being one of the strongest\title contending factions

Thats exactly what i think, whats the point of building such overpowered factions that can theorically give 10 mins tw to anyone,

and then this faction is allied with 2nd and 3rd strongest, and they share\move assets between each other depending on the cases

and then you see some core members of this factions passing from barely refined r9 to full deity full +12 cause they have full control on TW map income

this is just against the TW rules.

and we are persecuted indeed, just check last pk we had, 6 of crisis vs 15 between members of all the other factions :-)

Schicksal has plain rights to argue, why the hell top 1 - 4 factions are ganking them, whats the god.damn point, where is the fun in that? the challenge? the fair play? why is that even necessary?

@Rahiki
back in the Reign times we had lvl 80 requirement and lvl 40 for support classes, while half of Reign core was already r9 stage 1 +12 josd

We were getting them, leveling them and gearing them to a decent level (g15+)
Then those ones were the first players to eventually leave and join our direct opponents (there are few cases that are currently in your faction, even an officer of yours)

our only current requirement is lvl 100+ period, have been like this for the past year.
We have members with TT gears still and es ok

I believe TW is made for everyone, NPC gears rather than r9r3+12 doesnt make difference, you would cover just a different role

@chornoborg
get your facts straight, we were allied with this lesser factions and had been allied for months\years
destress actually wanted to merge with us and they applied for a merge with crisis before they merged into Revision,
we refused it cause we were growing way too strong and would've broken the balance.
i would've never expected that months\years old allies would've joined our direct opponents, that wined us until they finalized the merge

Joe - Morai

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

lol, well we lose to faction x, someone from z trashes us
we win\lose vs faction z someone from x trashes us
we win\lose vs faction y someone from x trashes us

how come we arent hated

check the map we have less lands than schicksal or elysium do cause top 3 strongest factions unnecessarly ganked us all season long

on a normal server, weaker factions attack the strong one to try take it down
on morai top factions are allied and gank the smaller ones

morai "aliens"

how if crisis and schicksal f.e. merge and perhaps wipe them all, should we?

I personally would do that ya...but the majority of schicksal is not interested in TW. The ones taking it at least a bit serious are not in 20 in numbers...so xD we are more of a family then a tw faction. Well I got all my buds there so no leaving for me yet.

Rhahiki - Morai wrote: »

I don't think you're a psycho, I just see you are unable to understand or respect different standpoints. There is no reason to argue with you, because everything you say is based on rigid assumptions I do not agree on. You always go in a semi-bashing mode, probably to taunt others into fighting you, to gather with a ridiculous exageration multiplier. That gets boring really fast.

I don't wanna push that any further...but 2 things.

1. Your reaction is the same that I usually get and as usual you just tell me that you don't agree but you don't give any reasoning as to why you don't agree and I have to assume that it's out of "feeling" and I already said what I think of atuff like that xD (no offense!)

2. I had so many arguments with people that told me that I'm wrong. Guess what? In 99% of the cases it turned out that I was right in the end. So you could say that I'm kinda used to get it right. I mean the best reason I could give is that I know who I really am. Why I am the way I am. Only very few can really do that. I thousands of people and none has been even close to that. I don't blame them. I would be happier without giving so much thought to anything I do, espcially when it comes to humans/human behaviour.

If it urges you I can surely explaon anything in detail but be sure to bring some hours of time with ya (I know I know. No one would go through that on free will xD)

NVM: Lets talk about TW more. I still think that equaling out the amount of players would do the biggest deal to bring order in that tw chaos. Low gear players are a nonfactor on tw. Even atm already. But still. I wouldnt only take the geared players with me. Not even if we would get limited in numbers. Gear w/o skill is a waste. I value skill always more then gear. Especially when it comes to important tw classes like BMs/Venos. A great g16 bm can lead to a victory while a skilless max geared bm would be just taking away space.

Zoldi - Morai

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

We beat Elysium on the field more than once with more than 1\3 of your current members that were ex-Crisis members\officers\core,

Yep you won more often than us, but I don't think these were easy wins.

And are you serious with the ex-Crisis members point ? 1/3 of our current members ? I know we had a lot of people who couldn't attend during our TW versus Crisis but well... you're talking about maybe 5 people and most of them were not even available for those TW... Don't talk as if Elysium "stole" those members please... you know why they left and I remember that I warned you about one of your officer very long time ago (when I was still director)
And if you need me to remind you some points (I have a good memory) I could add that :
- One of the members you're talking about used to be an Elysium marshall before the merge. Right ?
- What about Xiyie or Blatala ?
- What about all the formers Ely members that left Ely to join Crisis last season ? Then finally left Crisis as well 'cause they didn't like some core members in Crisis ?

So I hope you're kidding each time you talk about ex-Crisis members joining Ely.

Evryn - Morai

Guys... we're drifting offtopic here. Inter-faction bickering tends to tombstone threads, and the basic point being made here (that there's an issue with unregulated TWs) is one that deserves attention CM/Devside.

XXHotXx - Morai

Zoldi - Morai wrote: »

Yep you won more often than us, but I don't think these were easy wins.

And are you serious with the ex-Crisis members point ? 1/3 of our current members ? I know we had a lot of people who couldn't attend during our TW versus Crisis but well... you're talking about maybe 5 people and most of them were not even available for those TW... Don't talk as if Elysium "stole" those members please... you know why they left and I remember that I warned you about one of your officer very long time ago (when I was still director)
And if you need me to remind you some points (I have a good memory) I could add that :
- One of the members you're talking about used to be an Elysium marshall before the merge. Right ?
- What about Xiyie or Blatala ?
- What about all the formers Ely members that left Ely to join Crisis last season ? Then finally left Crisis as well 'cause they didn't like some core members in Crisis ?

So I hope you're kidding each time you talk about ex-Crisis members joining Ely.

You also forgot that members that came from epsylone were actually ex-crisis members aswell and our allies,
never said those were easy fights, actually i enjoyed our tws pretty nice and balanced and always said thanks after.

btw well whats your average attendance on tw? 30 players? we lost roughly 10 members mainly french ones that joined you

never said anywhere that elysium "stole" our members, while my sin alt that had been in elysium for years even before crisis was built, attended your tws, even helped to lead a couple of them, then i had been asked to leave cause there was the suspicion i was recruiting your members

and since you brought the topic here, i've screenshots of your officers pming my members asking "why are you still in crisis come apply elysium", give me your skype and i send you the SSs,

and i have many things i could copy\paste about the players you got from us, and the opinion they had about Elysium like right before they left and joined you :-)

i really didn't want to destabilize your faction, if you want the SSs and open Pandora's box let me know :-)

Joe - Morai

Thats a bit derailing the thread but I don't mind too much.

See people from other server. Thats the european way. They clearly have a sort of dispute but they keep it civil. No rage, flame, anything.

For me personally I wouldnt mind doing TW with only specific persons. Lets say you talk to the leader and arrange it so that only specific persons attend. Who wins doesnt really matter these days...the income from tws does got abused alot these days so idm at all.

So for example only the best 30 of ely fight against the best 30 of crisis. You both love great tw. Its in your hands to do something. Just talk to each other. Isnt that possible? The power of words shall not be underestimated!

Chornobog - Archosaur

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

@chornoborg
get your facts straight, we were allied with this lesser factions and had been allied for months\years
destress actually wanted to merge with us and they applied for a merge with crisis before they merged into Revision,
we refused it cause we were growing way too strong and would've broken the balance.
i would've never expected that months\years old allies would've joined our direct opponents, that wined us until they finalized the merge

Well i AM talking facts. Fact is something that is present and not what would have been.
And instead of creating some sort of weird versions, maybe you should admit your own mistakes (what leads to improvement). And it is friendly advice. But again it is not about you.

Cant reduce tw members slots when factions have 200 available slots. If they are able to fill them with active members it is not their problem.

And it is not secret that tw pay is not what from people gear up. Ofc leaders can nerf guild coins and use them to their own good, but we can never proove that too.

It is like vicious circle. It is all back to people not to system. If maxed possible gear peopleare not interested in tws - cant make it. So gather to tw factions only ppl who want to do it. And dont tell people to not attend them because they charm will be *****. Or they are one shot. Stop wining tws. Fight all you can. That remind me when serga once said that every little person matter in tw. And you will get your competitive tws. Make serenity or epsy or warlord or whatever other more decent guild attack schisal or templer or whatever. They will grow stronger to bring more fun and variety.

Should not reduce tw spots but should start regulate wine and fines for it. Like not giving out tw rewards if tw is unatended (if remember well rules state that guild must attack or defend and in case of more than one land to defend, faction must defend as many lands as they possibly can). As i mentioned in my first post "overcomming" rules like sending one character to tw should be more controlled and payed more atrention to.

XXHotXx - Morai

Chornobog - Archosaur wrote: »

Well i AM talking facts. Fact is something that is present and not what would have been.
And instead of creating some sort of weird versions, maybe you should admit your own mistakes (what leads to improvement). And it is friendly advice. But again it is not about you.

Cant reduce tw members slots when factions have 200 available slots. If they are able to fill them with active members it is not their problem.

And it is not secret that tw pay is not what from people gear up. Ofc leaders can nerf guild coins and use them to their own good, but we can never proove that too.

It is like vicious circle. It is all back to people not to system. If maxed possible gear peopleare not interested in tws - cant make it. So gather to tw factions only ppl who want to do it. And dont tell people to not attend them because they charm will be *****. Or they are one shot. Stop wining tws. Fight all you can. That remind me when serga once said that every little person matter in tw. And you will get your competitive tws. Make serenity or epsy or warlord or whatever other more decent guild attack schisal or templer or whatever. They will grow stronger to bring more fun and variety.

Should not reduce tw spots but should start regulate wine and fines for it. Like not giving out tw rewards if tw is unatended (if remember well rules state that guild must attack or defend and in case of more than one land to defend, faction must defend as many lands as they possibly can). As i mentioned in my first post "overcomming" rules like sending one character to tw should be more controlled and payed more atrention to.

Yea then as soon as this serenity or epsy or warlord or w.e. grows up enough to beat them, they will get ganked by top3 factions :-) legit :-)

i bet you are one of those requiem pals tired of wineds tws :-) how cool it is to win a TW season without a single fight in half a year

TW rules should be more enforced, same nucleus of players cannot have assets in 3 allied factions and control the entire TW map :-)

if actually we had some serious GMing big portion of those players would've received bans already as it happened on other servers

at the TW pay thing: i think you just live on your blured world, i've seen quite some TW pay politics from other factions where more than 70% was withdrawn by leader or core members for "faction purposes" and then you see that person passing from g16 to r9r3+10, it happened to us aswell in a couple of occasions so lets not just throw lies around

Zoldi - Morai

Sorry for the off-topic b:surrender
But just to end it :

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

You also forgot that members that came from epsylone were actually ex-crisis members aswell and our allies

I didn't forget but if they left Epsylone, I assume they were probably not 100% OK with Epsylone policy. And anyway you know Elysium long history. If we go too far in the past it will never ends, considering all the people that have been part of Ely's history.

For example Nexes was an Elysium officer more than 2 years ago, before the DeStreSS episode...*

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

btw well whats your average attendance on tw? 30 players? we lost roughly 10 members mainly french ones that joined you

Between 40 and 50 I would say. And this is because we always have some people (never the same ones) that can't attend (as for every faction). And "ex-Crisis" members are not available each time as well (and i'm not sure we got 10 members anyway). Honestly I would say this is 10% (or less) of our current strength. It's a nice addition but really far from 1/3...

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

i really didn't want to destabilize your faction, if you want the SSs and open Pandora's box let me know :-)

No need to open this precious box I don't care about what people could have said or thought. I'm only interested in the present.

And anyway I'm not an officer anymore, I'm just a random member xD. Still I kinda like the faction where I've been for more than three years and I don't like when people say false things related to it, that's all.

XXHotXx - Morai

Zoldi - Morai wrote: »

Sorry for the off-topic b:surrender
But just to end it :




I didn't forget but if they left Epsylone, I assume they were probably not 100% OK with Epsylone policy. And anyway you know Elysium long history. If we go too far in the past it will never ends, considering all the people that have been part of Ely's history.

For example Nexes was an Elysium officer more than 2 years ago, before the DeStreSS episode...*





Between 40 and 50 I would say. And this is because we always have some people (never the same ones) that can't attend (as for every faction). And "ex-Crisis" members are not available each time as well (and i'm not sure we got 10 members anyway). Honestly I would say this is 10% (or less) of our current strength. It's a nice addition but really far from 1/3...





No need to open this precious box I don't care about what people could have said or thought. I'm only interested in the present.

And anyway I'm not an officer anymore, I'm just a random member xD. Still I kinda like the faction where I've been for more than three years and I don't like when people say false things related to it, that's all.

wow you got more members since last time we faced each other i guess
(derek traitur QQ, jk jk)

well we had been in symbiosis with elysium for quite a long time, me and the other guys were backdooring your catas in some tws

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QO1Cn4MXLH8&list=UUZvXx4_OHr4m0X2CILVZ36Q

its pretty sad that the relations between our factions kinda devolved cause of this "trade" of members
but i always liked the core of elysium and it's a pity all the mess that came out when we needed to pass north to attack revision, and the ganks that came out after that

Evryn - Morai

Whell, if the offtopicness isn't minded by the OP...

Repeated wining of TWs is one of the things that will shatter a large faction. If no fun is had some of the folks who WANT to have TWs with actual fights, will either move an alt or their main to a faction that does get some action. This is the biggest risk to Requiem at the moment imho, and why it will eventually fracture just like so many factions before them (and drop down to a midlevel power on the TW map, then rebuild itself slowly, and the cycle will resume). So yea, if Requiem remains unopposed at every turn then yea, people will likely start leaving there if they are interested in that type of PvP.

Req's not a pure TW faction however. I think one of the major draws there is that respect for others is actively enforced in that faction, to a degree that other factions (including but definately not limited to Crisis) could take as an example.

HideYoHubby - Archosaur

Chornobog - Archosaur wrote: »

Should not reduce tw spots but should start regulate wine and fines for it. Like not giving out tw rewards if tw is unatended (if remember well rules state that guild must attack or defend and in case of more than one land to defend, faction must defend as many lands as they possibly can). As i mentioned in my first post "overcomming" rules like sending one character to tw should be more controlled and payed more atrention to.

Im not going to quote as I would have to dig the rules up but you are wrong. You cant give land away, you are expected to show up be it offense or defense. Exception being if you are attacked by multiple factions in which case you are allowed to noshow as long as you attend some TW during the time slot. Speaking as a faction, no rule forces any single member to attend TW.

Chornobog - Archosaur

To Hot:
For your information I was in Reign (and i liked it). I was in Requiem with your organised merged but left way before whole thing split apart for personal reasons. (too much already off topic).

I just love the way you try make all look bad and you stay so nice and innocent. Even your own allies. Because at the current point you just hating on every faction which is better than we all know who. Or not even better. Simply which are not you.

So what you mean by saying TW rules should be more enforced? Because if you would actually look back and read rules for Territory wars you should really first try apply it to your faction and start act according to them. That's my whole point. SO yes i agree that current TW rules should be more enforced by GMs. ALL rules applying to ALL factions who want to fight for lands.

But in general, Morai is dieing server not because of players, but because there is no proper GMs and whatever higher actors presence at all. No proper forums, FB page, not even English talking CM (no offense to current one, but separating french language and together like that french players from whole bunch of server is not very appropriate for international server even on those fun events she creates). As simple things as respect on world chat doesnt exist anymore, and i still remember girl getting permaban for getting homophobic on WC.
And TWs are dead boring because of players themselves and factions and their leaders, who simply do not show up for TWs.


More inclusion from PWI powers would be awesome but we all know its a perfect world and that just does not exist on our server. What exactly leads to unbalanced PVP part of game.


HideYoHubby, yes it is exactly the rule i was reffering to just could not quote properly while using tablet, what i mean is many factions on Morai server just put one or few characters into TW "just in case", what atm would count as attending it.

To Evryn, i am still surprised Requiem bring up full 80 people eve for wined 4 months. Ironic.

HideYoHubby - Archosaur

Chornobog - Archosaur wrote: »

HideYoHubby, yes it is exactly the rule i was reffering to just could not quote properly while using tablet, what i mean is many factions on Morai server just put one or few characters into TW "just in case", what atm would count as attending it.

To Evryn, i am still surprised Requiem bring up full 80 people eve for wined 4 months. Ironic.

No it doesnt. I went and dug the rules up for a quote, "No faction may lose on purpose or decide the victor through non in game mechanics. ". Enforcing said rule is a whole another thing.

Ray - Morai

Joe - Morai wrote: »

I will never focus on groups. That would be a harassment for any individual being. This is not my opinion, this is a act and can simply be proven to anyone who cares by just watching humans do what they do all day long.

It's funny how you lie to yourself saying that humans are unimportant to you, yet you need them to brag about your personal self-granted medals and have their atention making these threads being a part of their groups b:chuckle

Chornobog - Archosaur

HideYoHubby - Archosaur wrote: »

No it doesnt. I went and dug the rules up for a quote, "No faction may lose on purpose or decide the victor through non in game mechanics. ". Enforcing said rule is a whole another thing.

Wined TWs is loosing on purpose.
It is just one example of how people who talk in this thread about more close "regulation" "enforcing" and so on in TWs are walking around these rules.

As well TW rules explantion thread says: "If you think your faction has a legitimate chance to win the TW, then by all means go for it." But some discussions here sounds almost like "GMs should punish too strong factions"[<--this is not a quote, just sum up of some discussions here].

So in general, factions who stand by current rules should be more controlled, and those who break them, should get different rules. This is what i am getting from discussion. My main statement was and is that if factions would play by rules (defending when they are being attacked, and biding for attacks within the rules) they would be no thread like this.