barbarian pvp

huntky

Hello , i was wondering if in normal pvp/nw ( not much of tw fan ) if a fully rrr9 barbarian would be able to hold his own against the other pwi classes of course given the fact that the are rrr9 as well. Would a barbarian be able to take the other classes down fast or due to barbarian medium dmg it will be a slow fight? I guess what i am wondering is if their dmg really improves a lot from rrr9 because with just g16 is a bit small

CANUS_MAJOR - Archosaur

huntky wrote: »

Hello , i was wondering if in normal pvp/nw ( not much of tw fan ) if a fully rrr9 barbarian would be able to hold his own against the other pwi classes of course given the fact that the are rrr9 as well. Would a barbarian be able to take the other classes down fast or due to barbarian medium dmg it will be a slow fight? I guess what i am wondering is if their dmg really improves a lot from rrr9 because with just g16 is a bit small

Barb's can definitely hold their own in regards to survival as rrr9 atleast in comparison other classes, but cards, passives, nuema's, genie, your build itself play a huge role in damage. Depends on how you have ur barb set up. Are u sage? demon? vit buid? str? aps? Lot of factors to consider, either way if ur trying to decide on going r9 on a specific toon, barbs r a great way to go b:victory

WannaBM - Archosaur

I actually feel 1v1 barbs might be a bit OP.

I am a pvp noob and i just did a minimal bit of it. I did however beat people who are significantly better geared and in some cases it wasnt even close. most AA/LAs are very much at risk of dying within the 3 seconds of paralyse we can do. If they are just "mediocre" R9s, (+7, no decent shards) they are at risk of being 1-shot. A demon strength has absolutely no "medium damge". He is a DD to be feared. If you compare him to a BM (who is expected to have the same build and equipment) he does a bunch more damage trough faster casting skills and very high crit chance trough the onslought bonus. (of course not considering HF now) The drawback is that he has much less crowd controll than BMs and Sins and is pretty susceptible to crowdcontrol himself.
I feel this might also be the reason it works for me as a pvp noob against other PvP noobs. Experienced BMs and sins make pandameat of me by proper utilization of their crowdcontrol.

That does not mean they can do that to any barb.
Another barb on my server quit now, but as far as i know, he kicked pretty much everyones ***.

Both me and that asskick barb were demon str build with decent dex. (aps build, but that is rather unimportant)

Sage vit barbs are a totally different thing. Not saying they are no good, i cant say how good they are, but the fighting style will definately be totally different. For me as demon str noob, plan A is to simply AD, holy path, and then stun-onslought-ancestral rage. If that didnt kill the enemy, im gonna worry about what next and him not killing me, agressive playstyle. Kill the enemy before you die yourself.

If you are a sage vit barb, you are probably more likely to get into lengthy battles, surviving your enemies attacks until you see the opportunity for a kill. (with armageddon).

Kiymori - Heavens Tear

CANUS_MAJOR - Archosaur wrote: »

Barb's can definitely hold their own in regards to survival as rrr9 atleast in comparison other classes, but cards, passives, nuema's, genie, your build itself play a huge role in damage. Depends on how you have ur barb set up. Are u sage? demon? vit buid? str? aps? Lot of factors to consider, either way if ur trying to decide on going r9 on a specific toon, barbs r a great way to go b:victory

Barbs are exactly like sins in the regard that they can effectively 1v1 any class and win especially if they decided to roll demon(yes sage can win to but they are at a disadvantage due to lack of crit and major CC even if they do grab occult ice). The main reason a barb has 0 problems end game 1v1 is because of their survivability.

When you throw primal passives,spirit,nuema and +12 gear into the mix barbs just become to tanky to really have to worry about being 1 shot or charm bypassed very easily even with a wiz genie spark combo. On top of that, they are the second class in the game that actually has a somewhat spammable purge which directly changes the fight in their favor to set up any squishy for a easy 1 shot combo or charm bypass.

Now a quick point I want to say is if you decide to roll a sage full vit build damage barb for PvP (1v1 or group pvp), I am sorry to say this but your damage end game will be mediocre and you really wont pose any threat since you can just be ignored. But if you decide to a demon full str barb(or sage), you actually now pose a major threat since you can actually kill/CC quite effectively.



Also for the sake of humanity please don't even think about rolling an APS barb for end game PvP unless you want to just get laughed at or 1 shot. You will almost never run into a player that is stupid enough to let you demon/sage(not sure why you would make a sage APS barb anyway) spark and sit there and let you APS them till they die.

All that being said, the main thing you must remember is a lot of it will come down to your build, gear(refines,spirit,cards,neuma) and more importantly skill(when the battle terms are even), but assuming you are interested in PvP that would be full+12 r9rrr and a pure str build to maximize your damage. If you want to r9rrr barb then be my guest, because it's one of the few classes that you will never be disappointed in when it's built and geared correctly for PvP or PvE.

CANUS_MAJOR - Archosaur

The big issue with sage vit builds is that its an incredibly defensive play style, its more reliant on outliving your opponent than it is raw damage which is great for demon str barbs like Wanna said. The issue I come across most is as a sage vit build, one on one's tend to get way more lengthy atleast in regards to players with equal gear, mostly because you aren't hitting nearly as hard as u need to be to take down your opponent and you spend most of the fight tanking your opponent's damage. Also from the standpoint of a sage vit barb, your dex is gonna be real low so goodluck tryin to hit those sin's and archers, even with blood bath as a sage vit barb your accuracy is still pretty damn atrocious lol.

Pretty much in closing I would say sage vit barbs r great for pulling cata and support barb's in group pvp for stuff like rebuffing ur squad, using roar and frighten for magic and phys attack reduction, keeping heavy hitters locked down/irritated/busy with mighty swing spam b:laugh pretty much a great support in group but 1v1 demon str barbs rule supreme. Again as I mentioned you really have to tailor your play style to your build whether str or vit or demon or sage. Unlike alot of other classes depending on your culti playstyle really changes greatly. Both are great, they just serve different purposes. Hope that helps! b:victory

Kiymori - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Barbs are exactly like sins in the regard that they can effectively 1v1 any class and win especially if they decided to roll demon(yes sage can win to but they are at a disadvantage due to lack of crit and major CC even if they do grab occult ice). The main reason a barb has 0 problems end game 1v1 is because of their survivability.

When you throw primal passives,spirit,nuema and +12 gear into the mix barbs just become to tanky to really have to worry about being 1 shot or charm bypassed very easily even with a wiz genie spark combo. On top of that, they are the second class in the game that actually has a somewhat spammable purge which directly changes the fight in their favor to set up any squishy for a easy 1 shot combo or charm bypass.

Now a quick point I want to say is if you decide to roll a sage full vit build damage barb for PvP (1v1 or group pvp), I am sorry to say this but your damage end game will be mediocre and you really wont pose any threat since you can just be ignored. But if you decide to a demon full str barb(or sage), you actually now pose a major threat since you can actually kill/CC quite effectively.



Also for the sake of humanity please don't even think about rolling an APS barb for end game PvP unless you want to just get laughed at or 1 shot. You will almost never run into a player that is stupid enough to let you demon/sage(not sure why you would make a sage APS barb anyway) spark and sit there and let you APS them till they die.

All that being said, the main thing you must remember is a lot of it will come down to your build, gear(refines,spirit,cards,neuma) and more importantly skill(when the battle terms are even), but assuming you are interested in PvP that would be full+12 r9rrr and a pure str build to maximize your damage. If you want to r9rrr barb then be my guest, because it's one of the few classes that you will never be disappointed in when it's built and geared correctly for PvP or PvE.

In regards to my comment bout aps, I specifically was talkin bout barbs who have decided to go a hybrid str build with enough dex to actually hit stuff, many of these barbs have over 150 dex easy which is pretty much the same formula for aps, I didnt mean actually using claws in pvp

WannaBM - Archosaur

Kiymori - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Also for the sake of humanity please don't even think about rolling an APS barb for end game PvP unless you want to just get laughed at or 1 shot. [/COLOR]

This is one of the prejudiced anti APS people here

As said above, a bit of dex is quite nice to hit people. Barbs R9 gives -int so APS is an addition at no real cost to your character build which is the same as any other barb who wants to hit his enemy.

Its just as i said in my other post unimportant because the times to use it in pvp are very rare. It is however not useless though. In NW sometimes you get into HA vs HA fights where neither will die, you could just walk away then, or you can give the fists a try. You wont believe how many people will stay stay to fight when you spark.
But ye, its a pve thing It helps you farm your R9 in the first place b:pleased

Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear

huntky wrote: »

Hello , i was wondering if in normal pvp/nw ( not much of tw fan ) if a fully rrr9 barbarian would be able to hold his own against the other pwi classes of course given the fact that the are rrr9 as well. Would a barbarian be able to take the other classes down fast or due to barbarian medium dmg it will be a slow fight? I guess what i am wondering is if their dmg really improves a lot from rrr9 because with just g16 is a bit small

I would assume that by "normal pvp" you mean pk or 1v1.

1. The difference in damage between r9rr and g16 is massive, mostly because of god of frenzy (GoF). GoF+Crits (from spamming demon onslaught) is a big burst of damage.

2. Yes. Barb can easily hold their own against their own. Barb has some of the best single-target skills: Spamable knockdown (mighty swing), spammable crit (onslaught). But, in order to wreck faces, you need to build a fair amount of strength. The old build of 'full-vit-imma-one-shot-you-everytime-with-arma' is outdated for getting kills.

3. In small pvp or 1v1, longer fights almost always favours barb. Firstly, because it would increase the probability of landing a purge with clean sweep. Secondly, because barb can tank many of the damage-combos from other classes without much effort or resources (like going in tiger form, switching weapon, or use solid shield), which means that barb would generally outlast their opponent. Thirdly, blood rush takes some time to stack.

4. Having r9rr will never be enough for enough to get on par with other classes in the current pvp scene. You pretty much need a good amount of everything else, refines, max primal passive, nuema, meridian, upgraded avatar cards, level, end-game shards, nw-upgrades. And most importantly, a good genie specific for pvp. If your opponent(s) marginally better gear, you may still kill them but you pretty much would need to rely on a bit more luck to kill them (like landing a purge on the first clean sweep, or landing those lucky GoF-crits).

5. If the gear disparity is fairly large, and you are already build strength, (even in full r9rr) you will be a non-factor (also referred to as buff-slave). And thats because you neither have enough damage to get kills (no gear = no damage), nor the survivability to tank other people (no gear+no vit = 1 shot to geared-characters).

So yeah, the answer is yes. Barbs can hold their own in pvp, but you better be prepared to invest in much more than just r9rr to be a factor in pvp.

huntky

thanks for everyone posts and yes i am demon barbarian but instead a lot of dext i have a lot of vit but i can swap it. i forgot to mention my barb does have all the r9 armors but it misses the r9 weapon.

WannaBM - Archosaur

huntky wrote: »

thanks for everyone posts and yes i am demon barbarian but instead a lot of dext i have a lot of vit but i can swap it. i forgot to mention my barb does have all the r9 armors but it misses the r9 weapon.

It shouldnt be "a lot" of dex. I would say go for anything between 100 and 200 dex whatever you feel comfortable that you dont miss too much. Make it 200 if you want to use fists for pve.
That should leave you some 700 ish str, up to 850 when you add emperor and become 3x105

huntky

thanks for the advice

_Mg_Zr - Harshlands

I would just like to add;
I am an avid pvper. And have tried aps build and pure str build and for pvp aps build would have to be my favourite. Just for the higher accuracy and crit rate.

Now my gears are in no way endgame (r9rr +10 with average shards and a mix off s and a cards) and I can still put up a fight and kill opponents who vastly outgear me.

The other day I was fighting a r9rr sin with +12 josd nw ornies and roughly 300 more spirit than me. With a devour, mire and sunder I was able to 1 shot him. Ahhh the joys of demon sunder.

So no even an average geared demon barb I would never underestimate. Absolute endgame I would imagine a barb would be a force to be reckoned with.

HideYoHubby - Archosaur

After NH barbs are just plain broken in 1vs1. They werent weak in past but now its a joke. They have one of the highest dmg in game, they are the tankiest class in game and they have the best CC skill in game. They have great mobility making them extremely painful to kite. They also have a lot of ways to make them damn near impossible to kill for a duration of time. This creates the problem for most classes, you need to burn your resources heavily to kill a barb but the moment you do that, they can easily counter it with far less resources burned.

Barb is also the cheapest class to be a factor in group PvP. This for the fact they are naturally tanky and hammerspam is stupid effective. They can lock down targets who outgear them by a fair bit even if they wouldnt be able to kill them, which is extremely good trade for barbs side. Personally as an archer I dont do much else against barbs other than aim low them in order to freeze them in one spot for 8 seconds so my side isnt paraspammed by the damn thing for duration of it. Well in case I dont outgear them to the point where I can just metal 1shot them.

WannaBM - Archosaur

Sure, i dont agree with the best CC though.

Both sins and BMs have a range of CC skills that can keep you locked indefinately if you dont have the correct counters on your genie to be used at the correct moment.

Barbs just have a very annoying skill that can at best keep you locked some 66% of the time.
BM and sin stuns also land faster. If both me and the sin try to stun eachother at dual countdown, it is always me who is stunned.

Ranged toons can get away from barbs stun between casts and keep on kiting. Mellees well, the other mellees are sins and BMS, and those keep me stunlocked as long as they want.

HideYoHubby - Archosaur

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

Sure, i dont agree with the best CC though.

Both sins and BMs have a range of CC skills that can keep you locked indefinately if you dont have the correct counters on your genie to be used at the correct moment.

Barbs just have a very annoying skill that can at best keep you locked some 66% of the time.
BM and sin stuns also land faster. If both me and the sin try to stun eachother at dual countdown, it is always me who is stunned.

Ranged toons can get away from barbs stun between casts and keep on kiting. Mellees well, the other mellees are sins and BMS, and those keep me stunlocked as long as they want.

On sage barbs, which are more common, debuff uptime is 80%. It doesnt cost chi at all, pretty sure it gives some chi. Barbs move at the speed of mounts and thus are extremely difficult to kite. Comparing to other 2 melee classes? They burn lot of chi if they are going to lock a target down like barbs paraspam would. And ranged CC? Its rare and few compared to what melee classes offer for obvious reasons and it usually costs chi and/or has decent CD. Mighty swing has ludicrous uptime with no costs at all.

WannaBM - Archosaur

Of course ranged CC is rare. Being ranged in itself is such a huge advantage already. CC is for the mellees to make up for that a bit.

I dont know what chi they use. Im guessing sins make enough chi not to bother about that. They can keep me locked long enough to outwait my invoke and AD and then start and kill me. BMs might be a bit less, while they can chain a few stun or stunlike skills, they dont seem to keep it up pretty much indefinately.

I dont really think that barb speed is that magnificent as you make it look. Well, thats not true, all over it is. Every time i log onto an alt and i find it not near a bank where i need it, i again wonder how the rest of the server can plan their non-barb toons. Waiting to cast a mount is anoying.

In the heat of battle though, when i am hitting an enemy and he runs away 20meters, it takes too long to my liking to go to tiger and back to standing when i got to him so ill just hit holy path just like any other toon trying to catch a kiter. Well except for those that have jumps of course to be there pretty much instantly....


Dont take it all wrong, i am not trying to say barbs are weak and need help. I actually said they feel OP in 1v1 myself. But not because of CC. CC is still the weak point of barbs. Maybe less than it has been sure, but dont go make it a strength for barbs when comparing them with sins/bms.

HideYoHubby - Archosaur

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

I dont know what chi they use. Im guessing sins make enough chi not to bother about that. They can keep me locked long enough to outwait my invoke and AD and then start and kill me. BMs might be a bit less, while they can chain a few stun or stunlike skills, they dont seem to keep it up pretty much indefinately.

Well it depends what one aims with the lock. Keeping target w/o puri/tidal in place basically infinitely on sin is doable. Keeping it from hitting back is not.

You can tackling slash + sleep to keep barb for example in place. During tackling slash duration barb can fight back and during sleeps duration barb wont be taking damage. That lock can be continued till its time for maintenance if one so desires/genie/violent triump is used/something kills the sin. But most times that base lock is accompanied with seal(1 spark) or stuns, which will make keeping it up infinitely impossible. Dont get me wrong, starting at full chi with all CDs up a sin can keep it up for a while as, considering sage, they have "chi skills" to regain 5 sparks from their skills.

Anyways, the main difference between said locks are, considering casters, the purify proc. When it comes down to sin, purify is get away from jail card but when it comes to barb, its that only 50% of the time. Only thing you have on genie for para is AD the next swing/faith out of it as I am told that works. While on other hand you have multiple genie skills to counter one or another thing sin can do to lock you. Technically you could remove the freeze but its extremely rarely on genie.

When it comes to classes with some dex, archers being the best example, evasion becomes relevant. None of the sins CC is 100% accuracy, BMs got roar that cant miss that I know of. Mighty swing cant miss. Only time you arent stuck after mighty swing is if you have anti stun up and rng favors you with a freeze proc. One also could resist the mighty swing as its one of the easier CCs to predict but even that is never free(chi and/or cd).

And lastly, barbs poison fang renders couple of defenses worthless as it allows barb to land CC trough physical immunity. Sin has condensed thorn for elemental dmg too. The problem with condensed thorn is 15s duration and thus its fairly rarely up on sin unless its to counter physical immunity in place. Point being, sin will waste a skill on physical immunity while barb wont. As for BM? Roar goes trough physical immunity but I dont know of a BM skill which would grant elemental dmg to get other skills trough physical immunity.

As for the whole range vs melee? Obviously range is an advantage and thus ranged classes should never have top tier CC skills. But I get the vibe from you where you think just catching ranged toon ought to give you the kill. Closing the distance, catching the ranged toon should yield its reward but skills the like of mighty swing should not exist. Its simply way too powerful. And as you know, barbs dont lack dmg to kill things. On equal gear, barb is more or less unkillable to most classes due being extremely tanky with dmg reduction skills and with their mobility they will catch their enemy sooner or later. When barb catches the enemy they have extremely good toolkit to keep target in range and pretty devastating damage to drop them. Praise to TW and vit barbs.

Zanryu - Lothranis

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

If you compare him to a BM (who is expected to have the same build and equipment) he does a bunch more damage trough faster casting skills and very high crit chance trough the onslought bonus.

That moment when a tank does more damage than an off-tank. While having access to better survival skills. Oh lawdy lawdy what has this game become

WannaBM - Archosaur

Zanryu - Lothranis wrote: »

That moment when a tank does more damage than an off-tank. While having access to better survival skills. Oh lawdy lawdy what has this game become

I dont think you should think of the demon strength barb as a tank. Standing up it is exactly as tanky as a BM. Its pretty much the same thing. Slightly more dps, a bit less CC. Invoke instead of HF. A barb that is build as a tank (and doesnt have his pvp strength depending largely on onslought that requires him to stand) doesnt do all that much damage. Its just that barbs have the choise to build like a pure tank or an off-tank.

Joe - Morai

Simple.

This is me fighting a max geared, full deity sin (during that time he even got better cards then I did.)

Click

I guess that pretty much says it all xD

If you wanna know my exact stats, check my channel and all (:

Zanryu - Lothranis

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

I dont think you should think of the demon strength barb as a tank. Standing up it is exactly as tanky as a BM. Its pretty much the same thing. Slightly more dps, a bit less CC. Invoke instead of HF. A barb that is build as a tank (and doesnt have his pvp strength depending largely on onslought that requires him to stand) doesnt do all that much damage. Its just that barbs have the choise to build like a pure tank or an off-tank.

A physical attack increasing skill.
A physical defense debuff with 100% uptime.
A 40% crit buff with 80% uptime.
Invoke.
Cornered Beast.
Solid Shield.
20% chance to purge with a skill.
Anti flight skill.

The only real advantage a BM has over Barbs for 1v1 PvP is the ability to lock and HF, however HF is a skill that will RARELY be used simply because of the massive chi cost, and the difficulty of conserving chi as a BM. Even if a Barbarian isn't built as a tank, it's still got far more at its disposal in terms of survival skills. Blademasters essentially fight without debuffs or amps, unless we use our genie whereas Barbarains get a 35% armor reduction debuff. Barbarians also get an extra 40% crit, that can be maintained almost indefinitely, while the Blademaster equivalent costs 1 spark, only raises crit by 25%, slightly reduces our physical attack, and has a five minute cooldown. We lack Solid Shield, Invoke, and Cornered Beast making our ability to tank far inferior, and due to the lack of debuffs our ability to hurt our target isn't exactly something to envy. We can kill, but it's hard to put out decent damage without debuffing our targets.

Oh, and there's always Bloodbath for the accuracy boost, even if it lowers your HP.

Barbarians have it pretty damn good right now. Blademasters certainly have it better than we used to, now if only we could actually put out a ton of damage. b:dirty

Kiymori - Heavens Tear

Zanryu - Lothranis wrote: »

A physical attack increasing skill.
A physical defense debuff with 100% uptime.
A 40% crit buff with 80% uptime.
Invoke.
Cornered Beast.
Solid Shield.
20% chance to purge with a skill.
Anti flight skill.

The only real advantage a BM has over Barbs for 1v1 PvP is the ability to lock and HF, however HF is a skill that will RARELY be used simply because of the massive chi cost, and the difficulty of conserving chi as a BM. Even if a Barbarian isn't built as a tank, it's still got far more at its disposal in terms of survival skills. Blademasters essentially fight without debuffs or amps, unless we use our genie whereas Barbarains get a 35% armor reduction debuff. Barbarians also get an extra 40% crit, that can be maintained almost indefinitely, while the Blademaster equivalent costs 1 spark, only raises crit by 25%, slightly reduces our physical attack, and has a five minute cooldown. We lack Solid Shield, Invoke, and Cornered Beast making our ability to tank far inferior, and due to the lack of debuffs our ability to hurt our target isn't exactly something to envy. We can kill, but it's hard to put out decent damage without debuffing our targets.

Oh, and there's always Bloodbath for the accuracy boost, even if it lowers your HP.

Barbarians have it pretty damn good right now. Blademasters certainly have it better than we used to, now if only we could actually put out a ton of damage. b:dirty

Pretty much everything Zanyru said.


Only thing I will add about BMs is that ever since paralyzed was implemented they are in a very good spot for 1v1 and mass PvP. Dropping that paralyze after the opponent has blown through all their defensive combos can easily drop a squishy in seconds assuming you get a nice crit or gof crits in. However obviously in HA vs HA scenario it just takes much longer for that happen and can usually end in a stalemate if both players are good.

Joe - Morai

ya pretty much what Zan said. Barbs are great but not only at the moment. Barbs have always been the top of the food chain in PWI when it comes to PvP...the difference is that you can be very succesful with a STR Barb these days.

In former days you could really only kill as a full vit barb and you can still do that ofc. Vit Barbs are always viable...but very limited in what they can do. Being full vit you can only kill people via Arma...granted you can kill anyone with it...but it limits you too much for my personal playing style and is boring imho.

As a STR Barb you can rock these days. You have enough dmg to kill anything as well but a little less survivability. That's fine if you know how to adjust against certain classes. It's crucial to know when you need to play very offensive and when you rather play defensive.

The unfair thing is if you are fighting an equally geared BM. The Barb will most likely win if he/she knows what to do. Why? Simple. The Barb doesn't need to rely on Apo, so he can simply use an element DMG buff pot. That will cause major pain to the BM (other Melee classes as well, tho I wouldn't force it against seeker...they could hurt like hell, but other barbs are viable) due to the fact that most BMs will use phys marrow against a Barb.

What I'm saying is that you can mostly rely on your defenses, even as a full str barb. Solid Shield is by far the most OP genie skill there is. Nothing kills you while you're in solid shield in 1on1. promise (equally geared ofc)!

deathbytuna

Barbs are cool untill the king of all classes roll up...the psy..gg and night nightb:bye

Joe - Morai

deathbytuna wrote: »

Barbs are cool untill the king of all classes roll up...the psy..gg and night nightb:bye

ya gg. self buffed vs str barbs = 1-shot psy xDD gg

Kiymori - Heavens Tear

deathbytuna wrote: »

Barbs are cool untill the king of all classes roll up...the psy..gg and night nightb:bye

Um psy's true endgame 1v1 self buffed are extremely squishy even with full JoSD outside of white voodoo and quite frankly are very easy to counter with a simple will surge. And if it's a buffed 1v1 sure their tankyness becomes extreme, but because they have to switch to black to do any real damage they are still at a disadvantage especially when fighting a BM with magical marrow especially a cleric.

Joe - Morai

Kiymori - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Um psy's true endgame 1v1 self buffed are extremely squishy even with full JoSD outside of white voodoo and quite frankly are very easy to counter with a simple will surge. And if it's a buffed 1v1 sure their tankyness becomes extreme, but because they have to switch to black to do any real damage they are still at a disadvantage especially when fighting a BM with magical marrow especially a cleric.

Yap, the real 1on1 kings these days are Barbs, Sins and Clerics. No doubt to that.

HideYoHubby - Archosaur

Kiymori - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Um psy's true endgame 1v1 self buffed are extremely squishy even with full JoSD outside of white voodoo and quite frankly are very easy to counter with a simple will surge. And if it's a buffed 1v1 sure their tankyness becomes extreme, but because they have to switch to black to do any real damage they are still at a disadvantage especially when fighting a BM with magical marrow especially a cleric.

Psy with some skill is extremely painful to deal with. They can simply sit in WV and tank you all day long. If you happen to be caught with Soul of Stunning, you`ll be stunned for 10s+, which tends to force genie cd even off a barb. I dont think psy is top3 strongest 1vs1 class but those selfbuffs are painful as they usually require genie to deal with(will surge).

Joe - Morai

HideYoHubby - Archosaur wrote: »

Psy with some skill is extremely painful to deal with. They can simply sit in WV and tank you all day long. If you happen to be caught with Soul of Stunning, you`ll be stunned for 10s+, which tends to force genie cd even off a barb. I dont think psy is top3 strongest 1vs1 class but those selfbuffs are painful as they usually require genie to deal with(will surge).

True, good psys could be a major pain to deal with, but that only comes from SoS. Without SoS they would just be laughable in all honesty. They are just too squishy. Deminished vigor is a pain tho.

HideYoHubby - Archosaur

Joe - Morai wrote: »

True, good psys could be a major pain to deal with, but that only comes from SoS. Without SoS they would just be laughable in all honesty. They are just too squishy. Deminished vigor is a pain tho.

Meh, Soul of Silence is bigger issue for me on archer. Though I would assume its result of laughable DPH archers got, which results in seal proccing before psy is dead. One can wish will surge had shorter cd as 90% of time when facing remotely competent psy your will surge gets psy willed(p.immunity if I remember skill name correctly).

Joe - Morai

HideYoHubby - Archosaur wrote: »

Meh, Soul of Silence is bigger issue for me on archer. Though I would assume its result of laughable DPH archers got, which results in seal proccing before psy is dead. One can wish will surge had shorter cd as 90% of time when facing remotely competent psy your will surge gets psy willed(p.immunity if I remember skill name correctly).

xD thats why (please don't laugh, I'm serious) I'd always go for more the apsing/Demon path as an archer nowadays and add a element attack shard into the bow. the upside of such shards is that they will go through psychic will and expel and grant you a chance of purge which is worth it imho.

Will Surge will always be a must have tho. DPH is absolutely outdated as archers imho. The aps path has become more lethal again.

HideYoHubby - Archosaur

Joe - Morai wrote: »

xD thats why (please don't laugh, I'm serious) I'd always go for more the apsing/Demon path as an archer nowadays and add a element attack shard into the bow. the upside of such shards is that they will go through psychic will and expel and grant you a chance of purge which is worth it imho.

Will Surge will always be a must have tho. DPH is absolutely outdated as archers imho. The aps path has become more lethal again.

Eh, I changed to demon during last summer as NH just nerfed sage to the point I saw no point sticking to it. Any kind of DPH archer is laughable idea as our skills have terrible dmg for the channel/cast they take. Meaning you deal more dmg auto-attacking than using skills despite the skill dmg passive.

What I meant is, archer is gonna take more hits than say a barb to kill a psy. Archer will thus have higher chance of proccing the damn seal, which pretty much forces you to will surge every time you go for a kill on a psy. But as it has 30s cd, which is same(?) as psy will, it gets painful to get into position to land the kill.

I do charm jump some psys with charged take aim but its anything but reasonable strategy. It usually involves your average +10 armors psy selfbuffed whacking somebody else in BV and me coming unnoticed/ignored. I tend to crit them for 10-12k, which is plenty to charm jump them.

Ps. We got blazing arrow, we dont need elemental shard to land things trough physical immunity.