Serenity Stones

freygin

WannaBM, could you please post your excel file for learning purpose. Also, how do we calculate survivability with spirit put into equation, there is also skill damage, dunno if both need to be put into equation for more accurate result when calculating survivability.

WannaBM - Archosaur

for survivability i dont look at where dmg comes from. I simply calculate effective hit points. IE, how much damage needs to be done to kill you. (which is obviously a multitude higher than your HPs) This does include spirit yes.

It also calculates damage output though. This does not take skills into consideration. But if you dont try to use the sheet for comparing different classes, i dont see much of an issue in there.

Spirit is included yes although this would be the best candidate of all stats to ignore since if you and your opponent have an equal amount, it does exactly nothing.

Ill provide you the excel file, however i got to warn you. This is never made to be user friendly. This is made to play around with for myself. I modify it all the time to adjust to what i want to calculate at that moment.
Lots of variables that you want to change are embedded into the formulas in the sheet. For example, the formula (in the hidden K column) contains the number 1400 which represents opponents spirit +1000. Clearly this is outdated and should be increased now. Simlarly, 410 spirit in the list for my toon is also outdated)
Before you can expect to do anything usefull with it, youll have to find out how and why everything works so that you can make your own adjustments. Probably nearly as much work as starting it from scratch, but maybe its nice as a "get started" example.

Ill explain it a little bit.

B1 & B2 are variables that i added where you can enter your personal subjective value for pdef vs mdef. As a barb, i value mdef higher than pdef. These numbers make a weighed average between these 2 for survivability.

G1 and G2 do the same for attack vs defence. This is only used for the last collumn where every line (item/upgrade) gets a rating. It simply calculates the cost in gold per 1% improvement of attack or defence (adjusted for the values you entered in G1 and G2)

L1 is suppsed to allow you to choose between calculating progressively (when an item is calculated, it is assumed that all items above it in the list are also added to the base toon) or not progressively (items are all calculated from the base toon) I think this functionality wasnt totally finished yet.

If you look at the current way i listed vit stones and JOSD in this list you see that for vit stones i included a substraction of 75 HPs. That is because i want to calculate the improvement over the HP shards i have/had before vit stones. Similarly, when calculating JOSD i entered -10 vit. So that calculates the difference between vits and JOSD. Simply delete these numbers to get the pure effect of the whole stone instead of a comparison and then you get those 0.9 and 1.2 that i spoke about.

So go ahead check it out, but no customer support is offered

http://speedy.sh/sxXyR/Upgradesa.xls

freygin

You're really not joking about never made it to be user friendly, and it looks complex to me lol, I managed to make a bit of adjustments for my cleric and I started to see more familiar stats from my character, though to be honest I won't be able to fully use it since it's built for barb and I won't be able to guess some values in it, but thanks anyway b:thanks

I usually use Asterelle's socket calculator and like you I made my own personal survivability calc based on Effective HP, but still confused how should I put spirit into it. I agree spirits can cancel out each other so I simply ignore it.

Kiymori - Heavens Tear

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

Its a computer game not some esoteric philosophy. The game uses numbers to deceide when you are alive and dead. We can calculate all the numbers. Yes, it all does come down to numbers. Numbers provide facts, not open to biased experience and observation. Words on the other hand may have a lot of meaning for the person who says them, but for others they are just a bit of vague subjective information from a barely known source very open to bias, misinterpretation etc.

Everyone can calculate exactly for his toon the effect of any stone.
As i said before. For my barb made +12 (it is +10, but easy enough to make +12 in the excel file) A vit stone gives 0.9% survivability and a JOSD 1.2%.
I dont see the need for any more words when i got such numbers. Yes JOSD are better, but for me the fact that 0.9% costs 100m and the added 0.3% of JOSD costs an added 400m is a decent reason to stay with vits. That is not something we need to debate. That is a subjective choise. I do not want to afford those extra 400m, you do. Simple.

Crits, zekrs, hfs, amps etc make no difference to this equasion. Pdef/mdef debuffs do a tiny little bit but thats very much negligible. (yes i tried it, by debuffing myself to near 0 pdef/mdef i got to 0.8% for the vit stone) If you have any other aspects you think i am forgetting about, please state them clearly and preferably add numbers instead of just adding a lot of words together and think you made a point.

At the same time, if anyone is going to argue that on some end game toons vits are better than JOSD. Please specify that end game toon and add numbers so that we can verify it.
(I have in the past calculated a bit for other toons and it did seem indeed that josd are best on everything i tested. Of course it is entirely possible that someone found an exception, so feel free to prove that if you did)

See you're completely missing the point here when I mentioned debuffs. Me pointing it out has nothing to do with how they 'mathematically' influence defense, but the fact that they are ultimately what get's you killed in 1v1 and mass pvp period. If you want to talk math then sure be my guest, but that is not the point I was trying to make.

Also when I stated 'it doesn't always come down to numbers' (which was in response to freygin)when choosing your end game shards, my statement is correct and you even indirectly proved that point in your posts by talking about cost effectiveness etc. Based on what I said, personally I could either be talking about strictly how jades are mathematically better than vit stones OR, why you personally or someone else would choose vits over jades due to purely subjective reasons. But hey it's like you said, text can be open to misinterpretation which it appears you have done and now made a post under that assumption which is fair I guess?After all I already had someone randomly make a post in response to mine about why +20 vit stones are better than jades.... But since you didn't realize it, that particular portion of my post was again NOT related to why jades are better than vit stones mathematically.

As for the rest of your post it's for whoever wants to read it because my posts from the beginning were about why Jades are Superior to vit stones endgame, and even though I did mention that you don't NEED to get jades since vits will be fine for the current meta, that is not the main point I am trying to make. lso WannaBM I appreciate you also again proving my point about the superiority of jades to vit stones with all that math, saved me the time having to make an excel sheet today to show itb:bye.

This will be my last post on this thread relating to jades vs vit stones in this thread, if certain people really need to see all these numbers on paper to figure this out then that's on them, but for those of us that have actually gotten to experiment with it 'physically' that should be enough information as it is. At the end of the day though it's the players choice what they want to do, but have fun doing itb:victory.