Demon Dph

Beyn - Dreamweaver

Has anyone ever tried a Dph Demon sin? If so how good was it? If not do u think it whould b a good build?b:thanks to all that answer xD


Ps: yes this is geared more torwards pvp effectiveness

Zsw - Dreamweaver

Demon DPH sin is just sage DPH sin that runs out of chi faster, does less damage, and sucks more overall.

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

Has been done over and over. Tshenpyah is a demon r9rr DPH sin on DW. So was SwordTammer. Most of those people end up switching to sage because with gear like that, sage just makes you live longer, and hit harder more consistantly.

I find demon sins follow a 30-45 sec Burst pattern, and it's really easy to fight them because of that.

Beyn - Dreamweaver

well damn my sin is demon from the old days was hoping whouldnt need to go sage.I hate to do the lv 100 culti quest its sooo long. so was hoping demon dph was atleast good in some way.b:thanks ty all for replying xD

Zsw - Dreamweaver

Get the DPH first and go sage later once you get enough money to lv all your skills again. You need 100 skills until you get NH skills anyway. The only benefit of demon DPH is that it takes less time to do an auto attack incase you mess up.

Salari - Raging Tide

I switched to sage and never looked back. The only thing demon has over sage is the ability to be 5aps with chill in pve, in pvp sage wins. Right now in pve I am 4aps and do more dps than when I was demon at 5 and have better survival in both pve and pvp. I am just lacking on the pvp damage with g16 niv daggers. I have not decided if to invest in getting the ws daggers or r9. I know r9 is superior but I am just not sure if i want to farm that much coins again.

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

Salari - Raging Tide wrote: »

I switched to sage and never looked back. The only thing demon has over sage is the ability to be 5aps with chill in pve, in pvp sage wins. Right now in pve I am 4aps and do more dps than when I was demon at 5 and have better survival in both pve and pvp. I am just lacking on the pvp damage with g16 niv daggers. I have not decided if to invest in getting the ws daggers or r9. I know r9 is superior but I am just not sure if i want to farm that much coins again.

Don't do warsoul. They are a waste of coin conpared to R9.3. Zerk is just too valuable for sins.

Deadalus - Harshlands

Hit harder? barely.

Sage benefits of hitting harder was getting smaler and smaler the more power we got, so the little increases of weapon damage wont affect the overall killing speed too much.

Sage survive better yes because of stupid op Tidal and sage spark.

i consider sage yes but aslong we dont have the cash shop item that transfers lv 11 skills to sage and even NH skills i wont switch because it will just cost SO MUCH THESE DAYS.
Not worth it for me atm but maybe at a later time.

demon on the other hand is way better in farming fast so yea pick your poison and when pvp i your main deal, go for sage.


to the ones saying sage snt bad at farming either: sure its not bad, its just slower, thats all.
When you have 4 or 5 aps with nirv dagger thats fine and all and is better then demon in that case but most sins are 2.86 or 3.33 aps so it will boost the damage quiet alot.

Zsw - Dreamweaver

Deadalus - Harshlands wrote: »

Hit harder? barely.

Sage benefits of hitting harder was getting smaler and smaler the more power we got, so the little increases of weapon damage wont affect the overall killing speed too much.

Sage survive better yes because of stupid op Tidal and sage spark.

Hold on, since when was 50% subsea vs 30% subsea "barely" a difference? And last I checked, damage amplification doesn't suffer from the problem of weapon damage increase.

Sage survive better because of better chi generation. Tidal is better for sure, but sage tidal on a demon sin still won't make demon sins as good as sage sins.

Deadalus - Harshlands

Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Hold on, since when was 50% subsea vs 30% subsea "barely" a difference? And last I checked, damage amplification doesn't suffer from the problem of weapon damage increase.

Sage survive better because of better chi generation. Tidal is better for sure, but sage tidal on a demon sin still won't make demon sins as good as sage sins.

i agree on the subsea part its a big stepup but honestly you rarely use subsea and in all the videos you made and i watched i cant recall a single use of it.

As i mentioned, sage is better for pvp but give demon sins sage tidal and most of the time they are equally tanky as they are except for spark times ofc but thats about it. sage dont have anything what increases their tankyness except sage tidal or am i wrong here completly? b:surrender

Eoria - Harshlands

Deadalus - Harshlands wrote: »

i agree on the subsea part its a big stepup but honestly you rarely use subsea and in all the videos you made and i watched i cant recall a single use of it.

As i mentioned, sage is better for pvp but give demon sins sage tidal and most of the time they are equally tanky as they are except for spark times ofc but thats about it. sage dont have anything what increases their tankyness except sage tidal or am i wrong here completly? b:surrender

Gee, 33% damage reduction and better chi management sure doesn't help with tankiness.

jwillson123

Don't change to Sage!!!
When new expansion comes you will be able to switch and not lose skills wait for it.

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1715941

Demon sin is better than Sage demon for PVE.
during a power dash you hit boss 32 times with demon but with sage you only hit it for 24 times.
That is 8 more critical hits + more chance to zerk crit.

Switching to Sage sin not worth it if you do not have full R9r3 set + R9r3+10 daggers atleast + cube neck.
Stay demon and farm the typical DPH gear set and buy twin strike and punture wound and then switch to sage sin when expansion comes. I think full G16 is a waste of time and money. A demon sin is capable of farming R9r3 in few months.



Demon Sin Advantages.

• deep sting always lands.(5% not that much difference)
  
• shadow jump is 35 range
  
• Shadow teleport stun last 5 seconds instead of just 3 seconds sage.
  
• Headhunt stuns for one extra second
  
• Knife Throw cancels channeling 100% instead of 70%.
  
• Demon version has a 25% chance to increase the damage taken by the target by 25%
  (Sage one always lands and cancels so maybe sage is better)
  
• ○Earthen Rift more range

Sage Sin advantages

• blood paint 3%
  
• Tidal protection resist chance by 66% ! instead of 50% demon.(Some people say the chance is higher than 66% rumor?)
  
• dagger damage by 90%instead of 75%
  
• Raving Slash Sage Version also increases your Attack Level by 10 for 5 seconds.
  
• Power Dash 50%!
  
• Subsea Strike 50%!
  
• Life hunter Sage version also lowers the target's maximum Health by 10% for 10 seconds.Demon version is useless for pvp.... since you can easily 1 shot aps sins.
  
• Sage elimination hits harder because sage hits harder also bleed effect is higher but bleed is not effective.
  
• Cursed Jail Sage version has a 50% chance to only cost 1 Spark.Better in my opinion than extra second of stun.
  
• Chill of the deep Attack Level by 40 instead of 35 demon only reduces Attack Rate by 70% useless for DPH.
  
• Sage Spark reduces damage by 25%
  
• Deden nerves Sage version increases the duration by 30 seconds
  
• Maze Steps Sage version increases the duration by 2 seconds.
  
• Sage version has a 30% chance to generate an additional 100 Chi.

Deadalus - Harshlands

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

Gee, 33% damage reduction and better chi management sure doesn't help with tankiness.

gee reading is way too hard for you

EXCEPT for spark times. other than that i dont know what you are talking about honestly. where do you get the 33% from btw

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

jwillson123 wrote: »

Don't change to Sage!!!
When new expansion comes you will be able to switch and not lose skills wait for it.

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1715941

Demon sin is better than Sage demon for PVE.
during a power dash you hit boss 32 times with demon but with sage you only hit it for 24 times.
Except when you can't APS, and considering most instances now adays have an anti APS buff, you point is completely irrelavent,
That is 8 more critical hits + more chance to zerk crit.
And sage gives 10 more chance to crit, and what?
Switching to Sage sin not worth it if you do not have full R9r3 set + R9r3+10 atleast + cube neck. This is a lie. I don't have a full r9.3+10 set, and i sure as hell don't have a cube neck and I am probably 2x more tankier than demons in the same exact gear. Simply off the basis I do things most of them can, like pulling lunar and soloing that pull without apoth.
Stay demon and farm the typical DPH gear set and buy twin strike and punture wound and then switch to sage sin when expansion comes. I think full G16 is a waste of time and money. A demon sin is capable of farming R9r3 in few months.SO is a sage one. I farmed my r9.3 in about 5-6 months by merching, and doing TT every now and then. This point is irrelavent because it depends on the person, and as far as faming speed goes, there isn't much of a difference, but a sage sin can far riskier bosses, due to tidal, spark, and subsea.

b:laugh I found it harder to farm the basic badges needed than getting the coins needed lol.

Demon Sin Advantages.

• deep sting always lands.(5% not that much difference)Except when it doesn't? Lol. It says 100% chance to put to sleep, not 100% accuracy.
• shadow jump is 35 rangeTelestun for both classes is also 35m.
• Shadow teleport stun last 5 seconds instead of just 3 seconds sage.
• Headhunt stuns for one extra secondAnd if you upgraded it to cursed jail you find that the extra second is worthless due to cast time.
• Knife Throw cancels channeling 100% instead of 70%.Spell cutter is 100% for both culties.
• Demon version has a 25% chance to increase the damage taken by the target by 25%
  (Sage one always lands and cancels so maybe sage is better)

Sage Sin advantages
blood paint 3%
Tidal protection resist chance by 66% instead of 50% demon.(Some people say the chance is higher than 66% rumor?)It's 66%. People are just mad it procs often.
dagger damage by 90%instead of 75%

If you think those are the only advantages of both culties, you are sorely mistaken. You don't seem to know much about sage sins at all, lest you know much more about demons.


To the OP: Analyze your playstyle and choose what fits you. Sin culties are created equal, and only people stuck in nirvy mentality refuse to acknowledge that.

Deadalus - Harshlands wrote: »

gee reading is way too hard for you

EXCEPT for spark times. other than that i dont know what you are talking about honestly. where do you get the 33% from btw

The damage reduction on sage spark is close to 33% effective health. I think that is what she means.

jwillson123

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

If you think those are the only advantages of both culties, you are sorely mistaken. You don't seem to know much about sage sins at all, lest you know much more about demons.


To the OP: Analyze your playstyle and choose what fits you. Sin culties are created equal, and only people stuck in nirvy mentality refuse to acknowledge that.



The damage reduction on sage spark is close to 33% effective health. I think that is what she means.

I did not finish writing it. I was editing it and posting it same time I like to do it that way.
b:please
Also I am sure I know more about sins than you do by analyzing some of the aweful advices you give.
So I am going to teach you about sins here. I like to help newbies like you.

Demon sin is better than Sage demon for PVE.

during a power dash you hit boss 32 times with demon but with sage you only hit it for 24 times.

b:laugh Celine Dion Dagger said:
Except when you can't APS, and considering most instances now adays have an anti APS buff, you point is completely irrelavent,
Farming intance is TT and warsong as we all know new instances can't be soloed and if they can it takes too much time is not worth it.So APS is still King for TT farming.

That is 8 more critical hits + more chance to zerk crit.
b:laugh Celine Dion Dagger said:
And sage gives 10 more chance to crit, and what?

These days you hit crit cap easily with just power dash with the new primal passives you can reach 100% crit with demon power dash so the extra 10% means nothing when you APS. Hitting 8 more times is more effective especially during a HF. When 32 hits turns into the damage of 64 hits and 24 turns into only 48 hits. Now that is a 16 hits difference and I did not even calculate yet the change to do more damage by landing more HF Zerk Crits.
Anyone that do not get that is a moron is it so obvious.


Switching to Sage sin not worth it if you do not have full R9r3 set + R9r3+10 atleast + cube neck.

Celine Dion Dagger said:
This is a lie. I don't have a full r9.3+10 set, and i sure as hell don't have a cube neck and I am probably 2x more tankier than demons in the same exact gear. Simply off the basis I do things most of them can, like pulling lunar and soloing that pull without apoth.

I wrote that while I was working on it.I meant r9r3 daggers. To be really effective in DPH you need a good refine on weapon you will not go far in PVP with a +4 refine.


Stay demon and farm the typical DPH gear set and buy twin strike and punture wound and then switch to sage sin when expansion comes. I think full G16 is a waste of time and money. A demon sin is capable of farming R9r3 in few months.

Celine Dion Dagger said:
SO is a sage one. I farmed my r9.3 in about 5-6 months by merching, and doing TT every now and then. This point is irrelavent because it depends on the person, and as far as faming speed goes, there isn't much of a difference, but a sage sin can far riskier bosses, due to tidal, spark, and subsea.

A Demon sin will Farm way faster TT and do way more damage and kill bosses faster.
Just reread what I said before it is obvious. Especially if you duo it with a BM. More hits = more chance to zerk crit is that difficult to understand?

Demon Sin Advantages.

deep sting always lands.(5% not that much difference)Except when it doesn't?

b:laugh Celine Dion Dagger Said:
Lol. It says 100% chance to put to sleep, not 100% accuracy.
Aware of the Myriad
Stab the enemy with a poisoned dagger, dealing
base physical damage plus 1492.4. Has a 95% chance
to put the target to sleep for 5 seconds.
http://asterpw.github.io/ecatomb/pwi-skill.html



shadow jump is 35 range
Celine DionDagger:

Telestun for both classes is also 35m.

●Shadow Jump

Range 　30　 meters
Mana　120
Channel　Instant
Cooldown　15 seconds
Weapon　Daggers

Required Cultivation　Master of Harmony
Step through the shadows, instantly
moving to the target's location.
I am talking about shadow jump not shadow teleport can you not read properly?

Shadow teleport stun last 5 seconds instead of just 3 seconds sage.


Headhunt stuns for one extra second And if you upgraded it to cursed jail you find that the extra second is worthless due to cast time.
I do not have cursed jail because of what i have read in forums I do not want to risk losing Headhunt.

Knife Throw cancels channeling 100% instead of 70%.
Celine Dion said:
Spell cutter is 100% for both culties.

spell cutter do not have the instant cast time and 35 range Knife Throw has.

Demon version has a 25% chance to increase the damage taken by the target by 25%
(Sage one always lands and cancels so maybe sage is better)



Sage Sin advantages
blood paint 3%
Tidal protection resist chance by 66% instead of 50% demon.(Some people say the chance is higher than 66% rumor?)It's 66%. People are just mad it procs often.
dagger damage by 90%instead of 75%


There I just proved how wrong and how clueless you are about sins.
You should actually learn to play your mediocre geared sin than wasting time been dreamweaver world chat drama queen always trying to harass and humiliate female players in world chat.Anyone can go to dreamweaver and ask who celine diondagger is and people will reply he is that idiotic drama queen that spams world and talks **** none stop.

Ohh noo what have I done you probably gonna QQ and rage none stop on world chat now b:shocked. I feel sorry for dreamweaver players now luckily I am going to sleep now and not witness your whining b:pleased

Deadalus - Harshlands

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The damage reduction on sage spark is close to 33% effective health. I think that is what she means.

i think that too but as stated i said except spark times but she had to write something anyways oh well.


Well i will be honest here, i think sage is better in farming stuff when a cleric is not around to BB or isnt able to because boss interrupts constantly or you have to spark like in fsp but sage is slower doing it so with equal gear a demon sin will probably be faster.
You only can do so much you can argue with 50% subsea but you have to cast it first and in that time the demon sin will have alot of time hitting the boss with almost 100% critrate (i have 97% critrate with power dash in aps gear) and more time with the said critrate on the boss hitting itself.
so ya my opinion is that sage is better but slower.

in pvp its a whole different book and i dont have too much knowledge about pvp at all (because lets face it its hard to learn pvp when you are facestomped all the time) and can only assume and gather facts out of the skills they have.

so yea thats that

hypereccentrik

I'm a demon dph sin, got my gear and skills and have no regrets.
It's not like demons are gimped or w/e.

Beyn - Dreamweaver

ty all for the advice it helped me a great deal. b:thanks

Zsw - Dreamweaver

Deadalus - Harshlands wrote: »

i agree on the subsea part its a big stepup but honestly you rarely use subsea and in all the videos you made and i watched i cant recall a single use of it.

As i mentioned, sage is better for pvp but give demon sins sage tidal and most of the time they are equally tanky as they are except for spark times ofc but thats about it. sage dont have anything what increases their tankyness except sage tidal or am i wrong here completly? b:surrender

No, I use it frequently in my fights. I would even go as far to say that some classes are unkillable without sage subsea, such as equally geared and equally skilled barbs. Sage subsea also let's you killed overgeared opponents easier, and improves your aoe effectiveness.

Sage tidal helps, but what sages mainly benefits from is increased chi gain. That translates to stronger combos, more combos, and better ability to use spark immunity. Which indirectly translates to more tankiness.

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

The constant butchering of my name is unessecary, and just makes you seem childish.

jwillson123 wrote: »

I did not finish writing it. I was editing it and posting it same time I like to do it that way.
b:please
So now I'm supposed to be responsible because you posted incomplete thoughts? *facedesk* Take responsibility.

Also I am sure I know more about sins than you do by analyzing some of the aweful advices you give.
Just because I don't agree with you, doesn't make my advice awful.

So I am going to teach you about sins here. I like to help newbies like you.
I'm pretty sure I'm 2x the sin you are, and calling me a newbie doesn't help your case one bit. Next insult pls.

Demon sin is better than Sage demon for PVE.
Wrong. Demon sin is better for interval and speed, when killing large HP targets. In PvE, like i mentioned before, both culti's are equal.

Im going to teach you a lesson in humility. Just because you think something is true, doesn't make it so. Just because you like demon, doesn't mean everyone else will. I have 2 sins and neither are demon.

during a power dash you hit boss 32 times with demon but with sage you only hit it for 24 times.
Lets do some math shall we? Triple spark takes 15 secs to wear off after activation. The immunity last for 3. Which means you get 12 secs to actually attack.

Assuming both sins are r9rr, and have an int tome that puts the sage at 3.33 (with windsheild) and the demon at 4.0.

Sage: 3.33*12=39.96 (and since PWI rounds up)=40 hits per spark
Demon: 4.0*12=48 hits per spark

Now lets subtract the cast for power dash, which is 1.2 secs.

Sage: [(3.33)*(12)=39.96(rounded up to 40)]-[(1.2)*(3.33)=3.9960]=35.036
Demon: [(4.0)*(12)=48]-[(4.0)*(1.2)=4.8]=43.2 hits per spark( rounded up to 44)

So even with low interval you are still wrong on your numbers, i suggest you check your facts.


b:laugh Celine Dion Dagger said:
Except when you can't APS, and considering most instances now adays have an anti APS buff, you point is completely irrelavent,
Farming intance is TT and warsong as we all know new instances can't be soloed and if they can it takes too much time is not worth it.So APS is still King for TT farming.

Yea APS is still king for farming TT. If that's your only argument you should quit now, because TT isn't the only instance in the game. And even with TT, you don't even need APS to farm it.

If you gear isn't ****, it doesn't take too long on either culti, so this sentence is redundant. As for APS, both demon and sage can APS, the demon only does it slightly faster damage wise, but onces again it depends on gear. The speed difference is too small to matter.

That is 8 more critical hits + more chance to zerk crit.
Only 8 hits? SO that's a reason to **** over your personal preference right?

b:laugh Celine Dion Dagger said:
And sage gives 10 more chance to crit, and what?

These days you hit crit cap easily with just power dash with the new primal passives you can reach 100% crit with demon power dash so the extra 10% means nothing when you APS. Hitting 8 more times is more effective especially during a HF.
Unless you know, you subsea? Ever heard of that? And sage subsea is 20% more damage for the whole squad over demon, which is worth more than your '8' tickles.

When 44 hits turns into the damage of 88 hits and 34 turns into only 70 hits. Now that is a 18 hits difference and I did not even calculate yet the change to do more damage by landing more HF Zerk Crits.
Anyone that do not get that is a moron is it so obvious.
Fixed that for ya. But with HF a boss won't even last for 2 spark cycles unless it's just you and the BM, and even then, if your gear isn't ****, it won't matter much anyway. You saved 10 secs off a boss *gold clapp*.

And, you basically just said that both sage and demon powerdash are useless because level 10 powerdash also gives 40%, or did you miss that? So that extra 10% means nothing to either.

Switching to Sage sin not worth it if you do not have full R9r3 set + R9r3+10 atleast + cube neck.

Celine Dion Dagger said:
This is a lie. I don't have a full r9.3+10 set, and i sure as hell don't have a cube neck and I am probably 2x more tankier than demons in the same exact gear. Simply off the basis I do things most of them can, like pulling lunar and soloing that pull without apoth.

I wrote that while I was working on it.I meant r9r3 daggers. To be really effective in DPH you need a good refine on weapon you will not go far in PVP with a +4 refine.
So you won't go far regardless of culti. Once again, you have failed to make an even semi decent point. And once again, don't blame me for you posting before your post was finished.


Stay demon and farm the typical DPH gear set and buy twin strike and punture wound and then switch to sage sin when expansion comes. I think full G16 is a waste of time and money. A demon sin is capable of farming R9r3 in few months.

Celine Dion Dagger said:
SO is a sage one. I farmed my r9.3 in about 5-6 months by merching, and doing TT every now and then. This point is irrelavent because it depends on the person, and as far as faming speed goes, there isn't much of a difference, but a sage sin can far riskier bosses, due to tidal, spark, and subsea.

A Demon sin will Farm way faster TT and do way more damage and kill bosses faster.
Just reread what I said before it is obvious. Especially if you duo it with a BM. More hits = more chance to zerk crit is that difficult to understand?
Read above. It's not that much faster. If you had a sage sin you would know that, infact my wife's demon sin is weaker than mine, with the same refines. And once again...SUBSEA!

Demon Sin Advantages.

deep sting always lands.(5% not that much difference)Except when it doesn't?

b:laugh Celine Dion Dagger Said:
Lol. It says 100% chance to put to sleep, not 100% accuracy.

"Except when it doesn't?", was my comment. Deepsting can miss.

Aware of the Myriad
Stab the enemy with a poisoned dagger, dealing
base physical damage plus 1492.4. Has a 95% chance
to put the target to sleep for 5 seconds.
http://asterpw.github.io/ecatomb/pwi-skill.html

So you basically just said the same thing is said. How cute.


shadow jump is 35 range
Celine DionDagger:

Telestun for both classes is also 35m.

●Shadow Jump

Range 　30　 meters
Mana　120
Channel　Instant
Cooldown　15 seconds
Weapon　Daggers

Required Cultivation　Master of Harmony
Step through the shadows, instantly
moving to the target's location.
I am talking about shadow jump not shadow teleport can you not read properly? Can you? Who said I was even refering to Shadow teleport, I just said it was 35m. Nice straw man tho. Not.

Shadow teleport stun last 5 seconds instead of just 3 seconds sage.


Headhunt stuns for one extra second And if you upgraded it to cursed jail you find that the extra second is worthless due to cast time.
I do not have cursed jail because of what i have read in forums I do not want to risk losing Headhunt.
It has upsides and down sides, any competent sin can deal with the downsides.

Knife Throw cancels channeling 100% instead of 70%.
Celine Dion said:
Spell cutter is 100% for both culties.

spell cutter do not have the instant cast time and 35 range Knife Throw has.True, but knifethrow has travel time, it's not instant. Especially the further away a target is. SO you use knifethrow for close range targets when you could just spell cutter? Just no.

Demon version has a 25% chance to increase the damage taken by the target by 25%
(Sage one always lands and cancels so maybe sage is betterIt's different, not better. A free subsea amp can always be useful for finishing someone.)



Sage Sin advantages
blood paint 3%
Tidal protection resist chance by 66% instead of 50% demon.(Some people say the chance is higher than 66% rumor?)It's 66%. People are just mad it procs often.
dagger damage by 90%instead of 75%


There I just proved how wrong and how clueless you are about sins.

And I just proved that you are clueless about actually playing a sin. GG

You should actually learn to play your mediocre geared sin than wasting time been dreamweaver world chat drama queen always trying to harass and humiliate female players in world chat.Anyone can go to dreamweaver and ask who celine diondagger is and people will reply he is that idiotic drama queen that spams world and talks **** none stop.

Woah woah woah dude. Sense when do I harass and humiliate female players? Especially in world chat. I have a beautiful wife, and I don't want to be with anyone else so what reason do I have to pickup on other girls, on top of that I'm pansexual, so I hit on both males and females bro.

Maybe you should show your face instead of making rediculous claims, and post from your main. Posting while stone face is cowardly. As for mediocre geared, you should like one of those +12 people, who insults people he doesn't like when his friends have the same gear or worse. Go tell that to them, I'm not your buddy. Also I don't thin a person that has won a Dyna PK tourney agaist people with waaaay better gear than me can be considered a bad sin.

Ohh noo what have I done you probably gonna QQ and rage none stop on world chat now b:shocked. I feel sorry for dreamweaver players now luckily I am going to sleep now and not witness your whining b:pleased

I don't even know who you are dude. You sound butt hurt and clueless, need a whistle?

Salari - Raging Tide

All I can say about the "theory" of demons being better in pve vs sage is this. A few weeks ago in COA I was at the boss at the top right corner (snow giant?). I was already there waiting patiently for the event to start and here some a demon sin comes along and thinking he could pull agro from me and take my spot. I offered to squad he ignore me. I looked at his gears, 5aps, fairly nice refines all around with a +12 g16 niv dagger, might have even had 2 garnets(cant remember). Had some decent cards but has not bothered to level them. I giggle, look at my 4aps sin, +10 g16 niv daggers. event starts, not only could he not pull agro, there was no agro bounce. Only after the 2nd or 3rd boss spawn he asked if i wanted to squad.

b:bye

Deadalus - Harshlands

Salari - Raging Tide wrote: »

All I can say about the "theory" of demons being better in pve vs sage is this. A few weeks ago in COA I was at the boss at the top right corner (snow giant?). I was already there waiting patiently for the event to start and here some a demon sin comes along and thinking he could pull agro from me and take my spot. I offered to squad he ignore me. I looked at his gears, 5aps, fairly nice refines all around with a +12 g16 niv dagger, might have even had 2 garnets(cant remember). Had some decent cards but has not bothered to level them. I giggle, look at my 4aps sin, +10 g16 niv daggers. event starts, not only could he not pull agro, there was no agro bounce. Only after the 2nd or 3rd boss spawn he asked if i wanted to squad.

b:bye

I assume you did DPH and he APS the boss so this argument is a bit weird if you ask me.

Ofc he cant take aggro from you at those bosses but when the boss didnt had the anti aps buff he surely would have aggro if he knows what he is doing.

ofc assuming you dont outgear him by the cards where you have all maxed cards and he has lv1 cards everywhere. b:thanks

Kuroimist - Archosaur

Nice post and discussion.

As a sin 104 *almost 105* r9r3, also got my aps gears, i honestly say they are DIFERENT (sage\demon) and there are things that either benefit one or another (yes there are things that benefit each).

I was demon and decided to try sage, i have now all skills as sage and i am not going back. Still, there are things that can be easily missed on demon.

Jump - demon

Teleport - demon (despite sage reduced cd.)

Power dash - its better for demons since for both its easy to reach 60%+ crit easily (base) and demon got chance to immobilize. (powerdash is underrated some times but its mainly a spark waste at endgame - confirmed and a fact)

Throatcut - diferent and cannot choose one or another. Sage more consistent, demon got a chance to amp damage. All said.

Headhunt - Demon is nice so is sage.
Cursed jail - you wont spam that on bosses, its pointless. PVP - sage got it cause 1 spark. You may like to interrupt (by interrupt i mean, do not finish the casting of the 4 hits) to not proc Purify Spell on casters. Headhunt might be a good idea if you want to use the Raving slash bonus. Personaly i got Cursed Jail, can deal with it ;P

TIDAL \ FOCUS - no point is ask. Sage got higher %. Demons got a little of effect of eachother. Demon have a nice focus. sage got the tidal.

Sting - i like sage cooldown better.

CotD - like sage better for obvious reasons. damage increase (atk levels).


Spark - Sage for pvp - demon if you willing to aps in pvp (not viable).

Subsea - soloing things > demon last 16 sedonds, adding D.spark and if 5 aps it may worth. Sage last way less but deal more% of damage (faster damage?). Up to you to decide and math on that ;P

Rift - battle between range vs extra damage. (since i been both, i like both rifts tbh. range can help a lot sometimes.) situational tho.

Shadow escape - purify on sage (BADASS)

life hunter - sage reduce hp in 10% as demon reduce their aps. Again, not very viable to aps in pvp.

Elimination - sage got extra damage.

Maze - extended antistun on sage by 2 sec. sure like it.

Inner - that chance for auto 3 spark is insane.

All said ;P

I stated my preferences on both culti. Do not replying or giving away random critics. Straight to OP question.

Sry for my bad english tho, just trying to help out.

b:byeb:pleased

Salari - Raging Tide

Deadalus - Harshlands wrote: »

I assume you did DPH and he APS the boss so this argument is a bit weird if you ask me.

Ofc he cant take aggro from you at those bosses but when the boss didnt had the anti aps buff he surely would have aggro if he knows what he is doing.

ofc assuming you dont outgear him by the cards where you have all maxed cards and he has lv1 cards everywhere. b:thanks

nope both of us aps'd, I dont have the primal skills at this time to dph those bosses when they have the anti-aps buff. I do more just straight out aps'n than just skill spamming right now(solo). I will login real quick to post images below of my stats un buffed. With that boss in COA there is only one amp i do, spark->harmony->pd->frenzy, and just frenzy while harmony is in cd.

Attack levels is with jones

http://i.imgur.com/1kqb3JD.png

card setup (i did not have a s card when i went against the sin in my post.)

http://aster.ohmydays.net/pw/waravatar/#class=6&a0=126,40,0,1&a1=30,40,0,2&a2=117,40,0,1&a3=177,25,0,1&a4=68,6,0,1&a5=106,1,0,1

currently 103/102/101

TheConsumer - Raging Tide

Im an R8r with Warsould Belt and Cube badge necks DpH sin with 1.67 aps with Chill of deep and 2.50 aps demon sparked, i have 115 lvs of attack with chill and as of now 512 spirit, and i cant say i can beat any player but light armor and Arcane armor R9rr with +5 or lower are killable with a few well planed hits, Heavy armors i usually dont mess with them couse i only have T3 daggs. Now i combine aps with stuns and as a result i can just about beat ANY T3 player, i have 11.1k Physical deff as well Mag Deff, soooooooooo id say is doable but only to a cretain lv, sinse with lower aps it wont work so well witch is what happens when u get r9rr, but for me its awsome hitting a Cursed Jail while sparked witch stuns for 7 secs and do about 6 aps hits and get the kill and if it does not die deep sting, Thoratcut, shadow teleport and boom dead thats kinda like my killed combo and IT WORKS BELIVE ME!!!! PVP

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

TheConsumer - Raging Tide wrote: »

Im an R8r with Warsould Belt and Cube badge necks DpH sin with 1.67 aps with Chill of deep and 2.50 aps demon sparked, i have 115 lvs of attack with chill and as of now 512 spirit, and i cant say i can beat any player but light armor and Arcane armor R9rr with +5 or lower are killable with a few well planed hits, Heavy armors i usually dont mess with them couse i only have T3 daggs. Now i combine aps with stuns and as a result i can just about beat ANY T3 player, i have 11.1k Physical deff as well Mag Deff, soooooooooo id say is doable but only to a cretain lv, sinse with lower aps it wont work so well witch is what happens when u get r9rr, but for me its awsome hitting a Cursed Jail while sparked witch stuns for 7 secs and do about 6 aps hits and get the kill and if it does not die deep sting, Thoratcut, shadow teleport and boom dead thats kinda like my killed combo and IT WORKS BELIVE ME!!!! PVP

+5 on my server is kinda meh. Most people in TW factions have +7-+10. As a sin with r9.3+8 and mdef cubeneck.

If I am fully buffed I can charm tank a 5 aps g16 sin. Although i must say i haven't fought an aps sin with r8r. Too many of them have tt99+10 with DoT's. It's kinda rediculous.

TheConsumer - Raging Tide

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

+5 on my server is kinda meh. Most people in TW factions have +7-+10. As a sin with r9.3+8 and mdef cubeneck.

If I am fully buffed I can charm tank a 5 aps g16 sin. Although i must say i haven't fought an aps sin with r8r. Too many of them have tt99+10 with DoT's. It's kinda rediculous.

Lol well like i sead r9rr AA and LA arent that hard, but HA i dont try much i can deal with the +7 +10 with a lil moe dificullty and with some pot and genie help but the ones with +12 with all end game,i say RUN MF RUN lol, from +10 weps i can take about 1 to 5 hits depending on zerks and crits witch is not bad for R8r.

I Certanly dont recomend trying Demon Sin with full T3 ur better of with Sage, But R8r with at least 2.73 aps is a good choise if u lv it correctly and kinda cheaper

Deadalus - Harshlands

Salari - Raging Tide wrote: »

nope both of us aps'd, I dont have the primal skills at this time to dph those bosses when they have the anti-aps buff. I do more just straight out aps'n than just skill spamming right now(solo). I will login real quick to post images below of my stats un buffed. With that boss in COA there is only one amp i do, spark->harmony->pd->frenzy, and just frenzy while harmony is in cd.

Attack levels is with jones

http://i.imgur.com/1kqb3JD.png

card setup (i did not have a s card when i went against the sin in my post.)

http://aster.ohmydays.net/pw/waravatar/#class=6&a0=126,40,0,1&a1=30,40,0,2&a2=117,40,0,1&a3=177,25,0,1&a4=68,6,0,1&a5=106,1,0,1

currently 103/102/101

ah okay so you both aps the boss okay.
yea mostly the power dash cycle you are doing is so powerful, that a normal aps sin who doesnt use it but has a +12 weapon cant steal aggro from you.
+12 isnt a free ticket to have aggro all the time and be a king at damage dealing for sure.

But arent you faster using skills at those bosses? even g16 daggers should do quiet a bit damage.

I did the event a few times now and some guys wanted to steal my spots but the damage i deal is just too high for them to take over.
When i aps on the other hand i lose aggro, i tried it but eh with r9 daggers i lose alot of HP when apsing so i dont bother doing it.

peckked

Hmmm.. still APSing on anti APS boss?

If you have a decent skill rotation you'll hit ~1.3-1.4 base damage per second before counting the effects of chill. Anti APS buff is 1/4 damage, therefore even at 5 APS you'll only see 1.25 base damage per second. Even if all you have is APS gear and NV1 daggers, you'll do better skill spamming against an anti aps boss if you take the time to learn to do it properly.

Salari - Raging Tide

Deadalus - Harshlands wrote: »

ah okay so you both aps the boss okay.
yea mostly the power dash cycle you are doing is so powerful, that a normal aps sin who doesnt use it but has a +12 weapon cant steal aggro from you.
+12 isnt a free ticket to have aggro all the time and be a king at damage dealing for sure.

But arent you faster using skills at those bosses? even g16 daggers should do quiet a bit damage.

I did the event a few times now and some guys wanted to steal my spots but the damage i deal is just too high for them to take over.
When i aps on the other hand i lose aggro, i tried it but eh with r9 daggers i lose alot of HP when apsing so i dont bother doing it.

This is the only specific boss mob I will not skill spam on mainly because I deal more dps from aps over skill spamming with r9s3 gear on (this is also a response to pekked). Any other instance I will use either a g16 bow or skill spam, it depends on the squad and boss. Even though this boss has the anti-aps buff he still has zero defenses so the loss of dps is not as great as other anti-aps bosses.

This may not work with every toon but it works with me, I have tested this in several instances and did the numbers. So you or anyone else may have better damage skill spamming this boss. If I ever get the primal skills or a r9 dagger I am sure skill spamming with be the better choice.

Zsw - Dreamweaver

Man, why do you guys argue about PvE when the OP asked for PvP? b:chuckle