PvP?

tinocomi

So I read some posts about Arenas and PvP and I saw people complain a lot about the unbalance in the game. I have some ideas, taken out from sereveral MMOs, from MOBAs to RPGs and even Browser Games...

PWI isn't focused in skill. PWI has a strategic positioning combat system, where you can perform target lock and hit your target even if it moves. This doesn't happen in Swordsman, for example, where you can lock your target but still can miss your single and every spell or auto-atacks.
To give away a good balance in PWI, all classes need special PvP skills, and not more than 5 skills. If you have more than 5 skills in PvP the game becomes way too hard to balance, since all 10 classes will have some "utility" and pre-fixed counters.

I've been trying some other games and this was my conclusion:
- 5 skills per class makes 50 skills to balance overall (already extremely complicated).
- Cooldowns and heals would need major maintainance
- Inserting environment clusters and defenses improves players survivability/offensive playstyle
- In PvP everyone wears the same gear (small upgrades can be bought... Notice: SMALL upgrades, not r9rr upgrades lol)

Like this, the most strategic player would be the best player, since skill and gears would be balanced.

Ofc that those people who bought r9rr will opose to this, no doubt. If I'd had spent real money to get my r9rr and all of the sudden I can't use it for PvP (which was the main reason it was brought to the game) I would also be super frustated. Meanwhile, all players would be balanced and even "small" players could experience some action and have a chance in PvP.
The most important thing is: Since PWI is a PvP based game, why not improve competition by making it more based in skill and strategic operations?

Sadly, this will have no attention from PWE (as all other threads...)

intruderbelow

I've seen much of these stuff on other games. Like you said, it's basicaly a compilation of good PvP practices, but I don't know if it's a good thing to implement, since that r9rr stuff was meant for players to pay for power. If they can't feel that power on PvP then they will rage hard.

tinocomi wrote: »

Sadly, this will have no attention from PWE (as all other threads...)

Sadly, yes. I'm a Cash Shopper myself and yeah, I'm r9rr, but I wouldn't mind if this got in the game. I'm craving for balance for years and I want to feel some challenge. And by challenge I don't mean the top tiers of my server, I mean any player that has the same amount of experience, gear and skill balance to do a face-off and determine who's better, independently of the class in use.

Tho I think it would be more interesting to have specific zones to do that, since in PvP servers players can atack players whenever they are (as long it's not a protected zone) and the gears wont be the same, obviously. Creating an instance, or even just revamping the Arena for god's sake, it's already a fine step.

Eoria - Harshlands

If all I wanted to use in pvp was 5 skills, I'd just go play a moba.

Zsw - Dreamweaver

You can't redesign this game entirely in order to balance it. Some may like it, some may not. But for a game this old with an active player base, it's a no go.

tinocomi

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

If all I wanted to use in pvp was 5 skills, I'd just go play a moba.

That explains why -Banana- is so balanced. Also they have an active production team, unlike PWE staff that cares y about money and any action they do is focused on getting more money, milking those CS'ers fools.

Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You can't redesign this game entirely in order to balance it. Some may like it, some may not. But for a game this old with an active player base, it's a no go.

You would just get a redesigned instance man. Like intruderbelow said, even the Arena could be used for that, since no one uses it anyway who could even be mad about it being changed?

It's actually a good thing, you go into the Arena, your "Arena Gear" is automatically equiped and a new Shortcut Bar with specific skills appear. You have 5 skills and an active environment (lava, ice, water, wind, rocks falling, earthquakes cracking the floor, etc) to play as a solo or as a team. I'm just sad that the game engine does not support such an active environment, it would change EVERY PWI's gamers experience.

intruderbelow

tinocomi wrote: »

You have 5 skills and an active environment (lava, ice, water, wind, rocks falling, earthquakes cracking the floor, etc) to play as a solo or as a team. I'm just sad that the game engine does not support such an active environment, it would change EVERY PWI's gamers experience.

You mean that lava can actually burn you, ice can freeze you, wind can push you back, rocks can stun you/kill you? Man I would love to be in such an environment.
It would be the most amazing thing ever if those "natural disasters" were random as well. Players wouldn't be expecting it and the battles would be shaped towards the team/players with better position on the map.

I aprove this idea. Like OP said, the Arena ain't being used anyway so why not?

Eoria - Harshlands

tinocomi wrote: »

That explains why -Banana- is so balanced. Also they have an active production team, unlike PWE staff that cares y about money and any action they do is focused on getting more money, milking those CS'ers fools.

I play -Banana- and enjoy it. -Banana- and PWI are two different types of games though and they should stay that way.

tinocomi

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

I play -Banana- and enjoy it.-Banana- and PWI are two different types of games though and they should stay that way.

Yep, two different games and that's why I play both... Well, played*; since I quit playing PWI now I just play -ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD-. Still it doesn't change the main topic, which is: PvP is not balanced. What fun does it bring you to 1shot someone that can't afford r9rr? Don't you crave for challenge? I mean, real challenge... Not being dependent on Apothecary or Genie. Focusing only on your skills, cooldowns and regen procs, that's some challenge; not when your class has to use charm, potions, apothecary, genie and who knows what to survive. It's their milking system I supose, working on "cows" like SyntherosX, for example...

SerenityCNB - Dreamweaver

I do agree with Eoria about the amount of skills.

As it stands, some classes are naturally at a disadvantage to others. Even moreso, if you limit their abilities even more.

Example:

Cleric: IH, Great Cyclone, Elven Boon, Plume Shot. Plume Shell.


I've got several other skills, but I can't use them. I can't even go into ultraviolet mode to use my primal cyclone in full extent, nor use mark of weakness and pious blessing. I can't use my seals, nor my sleeps, nor my debuffs, nor my other heals. I'm saying that I agree with others that with a game this old, and active, making a pvp like this wouldn't work. The class balance is bad.

Consider against a cleric with that setup:

Assassin: Stealth, Force Stealth, Elimination, Jail Hunter, Knife Throw.

or Barb: Invoke, Armageddon, Barb stun skill, Sunder, True Form.


The cleric in this situation would be at a real disadvantage. Since a lot of our skills and approaches are different for each class. And that's true for most other classes.

However, I do agree with you about the same gear usage. I think that it would that for your arena pvp battle, you could create saved gear types. (With sharding level depending on the type we deem appropriate for that battle. No purify proc, Purge proc, GOF, Sacrificial Strike, etc. Though some classes would still have more advantages than others, it'd help a lot.

As far as the other part, I sadly disagree with you for the reasons stated above.

Not to mention, magic missing would irritate a LOT of casters, since our style does not include misses. Instead we have long cast, channel, and cooldown times in a lot of cases. Plus, the question would also be...will dex still help a player's accuracy in that scenario?

tinocomi

SerenityCNB - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Example:

Cleric: IH, Great Cyclone, Elven Boon, Plume Shot. Plume Shell.


I've got several other skills, but I can't use them. I can't even go into ultraviolet mode to use my primal cyclone in full extent, nor use mark of weakness and pious blessing. I can't use my seals, nor my sleeps, nor my debuffs, nor my other heals. I'm saying that I agree with others that with a game this old, and active, making a pvp like this wouldn't work. The class balance is bad.

Consider against a cleric with that setup:

Assassin: Stealth, Force Stealth, Elimination, Jail Hunter, Knife Throw.

or Barb: Invoke, Armageddon, Barb stun skill, Sunder, True Form.

I might not have been clear, so I'm sorry. What I meant was that PWI has to CREATE 5 extra skills, only usable in the Arena. All balanced and yet specific for squad making and solo capability.

SerenityCNB - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Not to mention, magic missing would irritate a LOT of casters, since our style does not include misses. Instead we have long cast, channel, and cooldown times in a lot of cases. Plus, the question would also be...will dex still help a player's accuracy in that scenario?

About this I also did not made my point xD I didn't say that the combat should be changed, I just gave a counter example to PWI's combat, which was PWE's Swordsman.
I wouldn't change the combat, it seems to fit the environment (tho sometimes I wish they actually changed the combat for a skill based style, instead of strategic positioning) and changing the playstyle after a bunch of people spent their money on the game is a very risky thing to do. My suggestions are to create 5 extra skills, only usable on an "Environmental Active" Arena, where people can only use the Arena Gear. Squad forming is enabled to promote Squad PvP (squads can't hit unsquaded players, doesn't seems fair xD), among other little things