Skill:Wizard:Primal Stone Barrier

Ararat - Heavens Tear

Question on the Earth shield for Wizards:

The new ice shield gives chi regen
The new fire shieild gives 15% crit
The new earth shield is the most expensive new shield, BUT seems to give no new attribute (beyond what demon/sage already gives) at all. The only benefits are less chi and faster cast, which the new ice and fire shield also give. Was this really what the developers intended?

FaceRolI - Sanctuary

yes b:laugh

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

Stone barrier already gives massive pdef stats. So much Pdef in fact wizards beat out LA toons on pdef. They wanted incentive for wizard to use the other sheilds.

Meaning that, I don't think Stone Barrier needed to be buffed at all. But the less chi and faster cast lets you switch back sooner, which is a decent perk imo.

XXHotXx - Morai

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Stone barrier already gives massive pdef stats. So much Pdef in fact wizards beat out LA toons on pdef. They wanted incentive for wizard to use the other sheilds.

Meaning that, I don't think Stone Barrier needed to be buffed at all. But the less chi and faster cast lets you switch back sooner, which is a decent perk imo.

oh really? too bad other classes have unpurgeable "stone barriers" with exactly same benefits, no chi cost and instacast

stone barrier should've been as wanmei devs wanted to design it: with chance of "death chain" and silence on hit proc

but nooope lets just make wizard class something none will ever play roll or reroll anymore

Ebrithalia - Dreamweaver

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

oh really? too bad other classes have unpurgeable "stone barriers" with exactly same benefits, no chi cost and instacast

stone barrier should've been as wanmei devs wanted to design it: with chance of "death chain" and silence on hit proc

but nooope lets just make wizard class something none will ever play roll or reroll anymore

are you seriously QQing about a 120/150% p.def buff that is exclusive to your class? and has a decent duration and stack with vanguard and bell? you literally get double what other class can get in p.def from buff beside mystic...
Also, what class have unpuregable p.def buff that high? none...

Stop crying about wizzy being bad, which they are not, and learn to deal with your strengh and weakness

CapnK - Sanctuary

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

oh really? too bad other classes have unpurgeable "stone barriers" with exactly same benefits, no chi cost and instacast

Wtf are you talking about? Only class with comparable skill is mystic, and that's only 90-100% pdef compared to your 120-150%

Burnout - Harshlands

You are massively underestimating the power of a near instant-cast 150% p. def buff in combat. It not only increases survivability, it also lets you start killing faster after a purge.

Angels_Age - Dreamweaver

This

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Stone barrier already gives massive pdef stats. So much Pdef in fact wizards beat out LA toons on pdef. They wanted incentive for wizard to use the other sheilds.

Meaning that, I don't think Stone Barrier needed to be buffed at all. But the less chi and faster cast lets you switch back sooner, which is a decent perk imo.

and this

Ebrithalia - Dreamweaver wrote: »

are you seriously QQing about a 120/150% p.def buff that is exclusive to your class? and has a decent duration and stack with vanguard and bell? you literally get double what other class can get in p.def from buff beside mystic...
Also, what class have unpuregable p.def buff that high? none...

Stop crying about wizzy being bad, which they are not, and learn to deal with your strengh and weakness

+1

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver

CapnK - Sanctuary wrote: »

Wtf are you talking about? Only class with comparable skill is mystic, and that's only 90-100% pdef compared to your 120-150%

He's just rambling about how OP tidal is, apparently it not only avoids debuffs now, it also gives 150% pdef on sage according to him.

XXHotXx - Morai

Ebrithalia - Dreamweaver wrote: »

are you seriously QQing about a 120/150% p.def buff that is exclusive to your class? and has a decent duration and stack with vanguard and bell? you literally get double what other class can get in p.def from buff beside mystic...
Also, what class have unpuregable p.def buff that high? none...

Stop crying about wizzy being bad, which they are not, and learn to deal with your strengh and weakness

@CapnK @Angels_Age @DEMHEALSIN

Arcane classes with unpurgeable p def buffs?

http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/9731

http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/30904 +
http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/30913

not sure about purgeability of plume shell and psychic will (most likely purgeable), but thats deftly a feature that wizard doesnt have in his stone barrier (:

l2p newbies (:

ZentDreigon - Raging Tide

CapnK - Sanctuary wrote: »

Wtf are you talking about? Only class with comparable skill is mystic, and that's only 90-100% pdef compared to your 120-150%

Despite being a different situation/class/playstyle, I'm gonna mention that Veno's Sage Fox Form also increases p.def by 150% (Demon by 120%). Can't be purged, but changes the play strategy.

But, yeah... Being able to recast Stone Barrier much quicker then before after purge is awesome... Unless you are being attacked, which will probably be happening, and you'll most likely die anyway. But this would apply to any class (except Psy's White Voodoo).

Ebrithalia - Dreamweaver

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

@CapnK @Angels_Age @DEMHEALSIN

Arcane classes with unpurgeable p def buffs?

http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/9731

http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/30904 +
http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/30913

not sure about purgeability of plume shell and psychic will (most likely purgeable), but thats deftly a feature that wizard doesnt have in his stone barrier (:

l2p newbies (:

oh good lord you cant be that stupid. Did you seriously base your QQ over small duration purgeable buff that cost 35 chif or cleric and 1 spark for psy? Listenign to you, you literally want stone barrier to make wizzy unkillable, learn to play like you said plz then talk about wizzy correctly.

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

@CapnK @Angels_Age @DEMHEALSIN

Arcane classes with unpurgeable p def buffs?

http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/9731

http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/30904 +
http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/30913

not sure about purgeability of plume shell and psychic will (most likely purgeable), but thats deftly a feature that wizard doesnt have in his stone barrier (:

l2p newbies (:

Hey hey pssst hey.

Name 1 unpurgable PDEF BUFF for any class

Oh wait
you can't.

l2dealwithtidalandotherthingsyoudontlike newb

also:

inb4 MUH TIDAL IS OP AND UNPURGABLE

opkossy

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

@CapnK @Angels_Age @DEMHEALSIN

Arcane classes with unpurgeable p def buffs?

http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/9731

http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/30904 +
http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/30913

not sure about purgeability of plume shell and psychic will (most likely purgeable), but thats deftly a feature that wizard doesnt have in his stone barrier (:

l2p newbies (:

Fox form? Really?


Okay sure, let's make it so stone barrier locks a wizard out of their damaging skills, gear locks them so they can't swap armor/weapons while it's up, and gives wizzies a neon sign saying "I am up to no good and must be focus fired right freakin NOW" and then you can compare.

A veno that's attacking is not in fox form. A veno that's not in fox form and thus can actually DD is far more vulnerable than a wizard with stone barrier up.

And someone already pointed out Mystics here AND the fact that it's not a buff of the same strength as stone barrier, so linking that is redundant and hurts your point as it makes it look like you didn't read their posts.

Take your own advice you put at the end there. =P (To people who'd jump the gun, note the emote. This line is not super serious business)




Not sure why you're including plume shell or psy will as they aren't exactly pdef buffs and function rather differently mechanics-wise. Plume shell can be purged though, so there's a confirmation for you there.






Edit: Really? Three of us in rapid succession about three different things in his post? Holy **** were we secretly planning this and nobody remembered to tell the others?

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver

OPKossy wrote: »

Edit: Really? Three of us in rapid succession about three different things in his post? Holy **** were we secretly planning this and nobody remembered to tell the others?

Yes, we did. <insert whimmy image here about where do you think we are>

Vedovis - Lost City

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Hey hey pssst hey.

Name 1 unpurgable PDEF BUFF for any class

Oh wait
you can't.

l2dealwithtidalandotherthingsyoudontlike newb

also:

inb4 MUH TIDAL IS OP AND UNPURGABLE

Well fox is unpurgable however - if another veno uses Bewitch it forces them out of fox form for 6 seconds. Enough time to stunlock and murder. Kossy also made some great points about why fox isnt really comparable to stone barrier..

XXHotXx - Morai

lol these maddies,

stop pretending to be blind, at current endgame,
if you experienced it, thing which i doubt

a purged wizard is a dead wizard, after the purge he will be 1-2 shots for any melee or EA

a purged veno still keeps her high p def and high mobility, she will just safely kite you away

a purged cleric can plume shell and rebuff himself in safety

a purged psy can psy will and cast white voodoo in safety

a purged mystic keeps the p def, then casts nature's barrier in safety

also fox IS comparable to stone barrier, cause actually we trade off our chi regen and crit rate for that p def buff as a veno trades off other offensive features for an unpurgeable stone barrier

but seen we are taking out the argument wizard is good, veno is worse...

how it will be next week when lvl 10 passives will be out, and undine spark pyrogram will deal negligible damage,
WHILE
demon ironwood + arcane antinomy will pretty much be able to oneshot anyclass - anygears - any refines?

its not my fault if you guys didnt try the classes @ current endgame yet and how ****ed up is the current meta

Colum - Raging Tide

OPKossy wrote: »

Fox form? Really?


Okay sure, let's make it so stone barrier locks a wizard out of their damaging skills, gear locks them so they can't swap armor/weapons while it's up, and gives wizzies a neon sign saying "I am up to no good and must be focus fired right freakin NOW" and then you can compare.

A veno that's attacking is not in fox form. A veno that's not in fox form and thus can actually DD is far more vulnerable than a wizard with stone barrier up.

And someone already pointed out Mystics here AND the fact that it's not a buff of the same strength as stone barrier, so linking that is redundant and hurts your point as it makes it look like you didn't read their posts.

Take your own advice you put at the end there. =P (To people who'd jump the gun, note the emote. This line is not super serious business)




Not sure why you're including plume shell or psy will as they aren't exactly pdef buffs and function rather differently mechanics-wise. Plume shell can be purged though, so there's a confirmation for you there.






Edit: Really? Three of us in rapid succession about three different things in his post? Holy **** were we secretly planning this and nobody remembered to tell the others?

Not to mention Plume Shell and Psy Will both have a chi cost unlike he claimed..

Redmenace - Heavens Tear

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

l2p newbies (:

Go away.

\l2bhuman, numbnuts

FaceRolI - Sanctuary

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

a purged wizard is a dead wizard, after the purge he will be 1-2 shots for any melee or EA

or you could rebuff yourself... you know extra fast... or the better option of s key + zoom zoomy skill and then rebuff extra fast. you can also stand there and die.

idc if its sexist but this is like when you are arguing w/ ur gf (bad idea) about something that happened today and shes somehow losing, then its totally "well ** ur logic! what about that event that occured like 2 months ago that has 0 relevance to the current the topic" and ur like wtf does that have to do w/ this? and then you lose cause even if you won you still lost. GG

lvl 10 primal defenses are going to **** wizards even harder then before, this is true; but wtf does that have to do w/ stone barrier? is there an implied suggestion that primal stone barrier
should apply seeker-level debuffs to nearby enemies? im sure the devs in china are closely monitoring this thread for possible upcoming balance changes.

CapnK - Sanctuary

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

@CapnK @Angels_Age @DEMHEALSIN

Arcane classes with unpurgeable p def buffs?

http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/9731

http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/30904 +
http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/30913

not sure about purgeability of plume shell and psychic will (most likely purgeable), but thats deftly a feature that wizard doesnt have in his stone barrier (:

l2p newbies (:

Verdant Shell and the buff from Chiyu are both very purgeable. The Chiyu one takes a full spark (not to mention the time to summon your chiyu) to recast as well. The only mystic skills that aren't purgeable are Verdant Blessing (20% bonus to heals) and Invigorate (PVE skill).

I die on mystic just as fast as a wizard when purged. Your class is not special in that regard.

opkossy

Sorry, Hot, but you asked for this. Time to break down exactly why what you're saying fails in practice here.

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

a purged wizard is a dead wizard, after the purge he will be 1-2 shots for any melee or EA

Must be a pretty crappy wiz then. Especially considering,

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

but at the real bottom there are the EAs... their damage is even more consistently nerfed after lvl 10 attack passives that wont affect their auto attacks for demon ones, sage ones will rely on debuffs that will be negligible.... they can be easily controlled by any other class... and they also have crappy survivability

Or does that only apply when you aren't trying to make wiz out to be worse than they are? b:chuckle

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

a purged veno still keeps her high p def and high mobility, she will just safely kite you away

lolwut. Sage venos aren't demon venos and vice versa. It's gonna be either the high pdef but not mobility OR the mobility that requires switching in and out of fox and thus sacrificing that defense even WITHOUT purge. Not both. Oh and to top it off, you're only assuming the veno is in fox (aka not attacking) for this. Veno in human is as squishy as a purged wiz without needing purge! Methinks this means you should be arguing that venos should have fox form not destroy their ability to attack. b:laugh

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

a purged cleric can plume shell and rebuff himself in safety

If you purged plume shell while it was up it'll have this thing called a "cooldown" to deal with. Unlike stone barrier, plume shell is not a long-lasting buff. It merely seems that way because the cooldown allows it to be placed back up relatively quickly after it wears off on its own. If it was purged off, that no longer applies... unlike stone barrier which can be up for 15 minutes.

And funny how you say "clerics can just rebuff plume shell" when the new stone barrier has a shorter channel, cast, AND cooldown than plume shell. While lasting longer... and costing less chi. Kinda sorta goes completely against any point you could try to make here.

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

a purged psy can psy will and cast white voodoo in safety

And is down a spark to do it! Go them!

I like that you conveniently left out the fact that a psy that ISN'T in white voodoo is... wait for it... squishier than the purged wiz in your example above. Oh and that the skills you're saying these people would use also take longer to get up and have worse cooldowns than stone barrier. And greater chi requirements. Man what is with it with all these arcanes that are worse off than wizards are in this comparison you're trying to make being able to do better than a wiz can somehow? Are the hypothetical wizards just idiots or is there some sort of magic aura of magicness that keeps the wizzies from dong what they can do easily while the other arcanes somehow do what the wizzies should have an easier time with?

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

a purged mystic keeps the p def, then casts nature's barrier in safety

So... they start with less pdef than the wiz, as already pointed out, and after the purge need to panic and immobilize themselves even though they've kept their pdef?

Is... is that supposed to not make sense? Because that makes absolutely zero sense whatsoever.

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

also fox IS comparable to stone barrier, cause actually we trade off our chi regen and crit rate for that p def buff as a veno trades off other offensive features for an unpurgeable stone barrier

Oh yeah. That chi regen and crit rate you didn't have prior to this update while venos have always lost their offense. Whoop-de-doo! How about we give human form venos a crit rate buff then while making it so your stone barrier isn't purgable but that you also can't attack with it up. Should sound totally fair to you since, ya know, you keep acting like fox form is totally comparable even though it really isn't.

how it will be next week when lvl 10 passives will be out, and undine spark pyrogram will deal negligible damage,

Speaking of negligible damage, LEVEL 10 PASSIVES ALSO NERFS PRUGE! Kinda crushes your argument about QQbutwegetpurged when purge itself is rendered less useful because of those same passives.

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

WHILE
demon ironwood + arcane antinomy will pretty much be able to oneshot anyclass - anygears - any refines?

The 1/5 chance setup that's so obvious a blind monkey can see it coming and block it the same way we always have? And the skill conveniently has a 2 minute cooldown so once they've done that you're free of fear for a good little while. Not to mention it only works for demon venos that didn't get redstone. Sage venos? They don't get it. Any demon that got redstone? They also don't get it. The few demons left that have demon ironwood? When you see the pdef icon you know what that means. Don't let the obvious follow-up that should be obvious get through. That's as bad as getting pissed about ToP arma back before this expansion. When you saw a human barb hitting tree while running at you it should have been obvious to even a blind man what was about to happen.

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

its not my fault if you guys didnt try the classes @ current endgame yet and how ****ed up is the current meta

Yeah i get you're sad about the passives but really man, this is just reaching deep and trying to act like not being invincible is a "drawback" Just because a certain class is considered overpowered doesn't mean the solution is to act like if your class needs to be given god mode to compete with... the rest of the non-overpowered classes in the game.

XXHotXx - Morai

FaceRolI - Sanctuary wrote: »

or you could rebuff yourself... you know extra fast... or the better option of s key + zoom zoomy skill and then rebuff extra fast. you can also stand there and die.

idc if its sexist but this is like when you are arguing w/ ur gf (bad idea) about something that happened today and shes somehow losing, then its totally "well ** ur logic! what about that event that occured like 2 months ago that has 0 relevance to the current the topic" and ur like wtf does that have to do w/ this? and then you lose cause even if you won you still lost. GG

lvl 10 primal defenses are going to **** wizards even harder then before, this is true; but wtf does that have to do w/ stone barrier? is there an implied suggestion that primal stone barrier
should apply seeker-level debuffs to nearby enemies? im sure the devs in china are closely monitoring this thread for possible upcoming balance changes.

sorry i am not a "script" guy i try to play the game legit w\o this "kind of aids"

i am pretty sure if an endgame demon archer stun arrow qs you and purge procs you are pretty much dead before you can react

@CapnK stone barrier has a chi cost aswell, and wiz, especially demon one since we talking about demon stone barrier, has the worst chi build-up in game due to longest channs + casts

all arcane classes has damage reduction skills like verdant psy will plume shell, @ veno you cant purge the fox form

wizard doesnt have such feature

if you get a purge any other arcane class has its oh-**** skill,
wizard doesnt
and he has to rely on genie or apo,

but wizard needs to rely on genie to land damage too and also wizard needs to rely on genie to build chi aswell

-> wizard needs an oh-**** skill built-in the stone barrier

i would be fine with like dunno 30% damage reduction for like 5 seconds after cast?

edit: @kossy: yes indeed archer damage is nerfed, but we are talking about after-purge scenario
the 1-2 hits right after purge will wreck a wiz while they wont wreck a foxie in the same way

also 2 minutes cooldown drawback for being able to oneshot anything cept assassins?

well yea at the end of the day you are right, its really frustrating that couple of classes got wrecked from last patch and what is coming next it will be making it even worse..
this is not a game where if your class gets nerfed you can simply reroll,
you need prolly years to reroll from scratch

and i dont even know why i am debating it since its pointless and wont affect the devs mind...

Joe - Morai

God Dangit ppl!!!

This topic again (ya the real topic...not the one in the title xDDD)

@Hot: Wizards arn't screwed. Da hell. If you take it that way then how should psys feel then? 0 Debuffs, 0 Amps, just deminished vigor and att lvl (at the loss of def lvl) and some pathetic souls that won't save them while being "selfbuffed".

You always talk about how screwed wizards are based on redundant undine strike + spark. You know...your class got a few other skills cept "debuffing + spamming random fire skills". It might get harder for wizards to kill but in no way are those debuffs neglicable. They still have the possibility to double (or more) the dmg you hit on self buffed targets. Sure you might not be able to 1-shot anything with it now but was that supposed to be that way to begin with?

I always considered wizards the strongest Arcane class and imho they still are. Versatility and kiteability is still unmatched under the ranks of arcane classes. What over class got better mobility then wizards? Psys? ya, sure. Clerics? ya, so many running skills (dat OP guardian light!). Venos (DEMON!)? Ya, sure switching forms like that is highly effective in killing targets considering the 9 sec CD. Mystics? ya, dat many running skills again.

I don't get your point as to how you can get to the thought that wizards suck these days. They are still the most powerful Arcane class. The only difference is that the other classes came a bit closer. Clerics and Mystics got pushed a huge bunch during the last few update/upgrade and are to be considered nearly on par with wizards now. Venos have always been strong. Psys are the class that really is screwed these days. If all you matter is kiteability and defense then oh well...how can psys not be the worst arcane class there is?

It's the same with any other class: If old strategies doesn't work anymore then come up with a counter strategy. Hell, do you remember the times when purify-proc was new? How badly any aps BM, Barb, sin was screwed over in killing arcane classes back then?

STILL! THEY MANAGED AND ADAPTED TO THE FRIGGIN CHANGE AND CAN KEEP UP QUITE GOOD NOW! SO I suggest you do the same.

Geez I really need to call an old friend and record some videos how I win over a great player any class vs any class just to show ppl that it's not the games fault. It's simply their own inability to adapt/play that causes threads and topics like this to exist in the first place. Where there is a strategy to win, there is also always a counterstrategy. period.

PS: thats the best thing to do when someone you know thinks that his class is brokenly weak. Switch classes. Beat him with that "oh-so-weak-class" and he will shut up 4ever. promise.

Just remember guys. Sometimes it's really just you. If you can 10000% point out that it's notyour own fault and not a problem on your end then it's ok. then you can go and blame others for it. Until then: shut it.

XXHotXx - Morai

Joe - Morai wrote: »

God Dangit ppl!!!

This topic again (ya the real topic...not the one in the title xDDD)

@Hot: Wizards arn't screwed. Da hell. If you take it that way then how should psys feel then? 0 Debuffs, 0 Amps, just deminished vigor and att lvl (at the loss of def lvl) and some pathetic souls that won't save them while being "selfbuffed".

You always talk about how screwed wizards are based on redundant undine strike + spark. You know...your class got a few other skills cept "debuffing + spamming random fire skills". It might get harder for wizards to kill but in no way are those debuffs neglicable. They still have the possibility to double (or more) the dmg you hit on self buffed targets. Sure you might not be able to 1-shot anything with it now but was that supposed to be that way to begin with?

I always considered wizards the strongest Arcane class and imho they still are. Versatility and kiteability is still unmatched under the ranks of arcane classes. What over class got better mobility then wizards? Psys? ya, sure. Clerics? ya, so many running skills (dat OP guardian light!). Venos (DEMON!)? Ya, sure switching forms like that is highly effective in killing targets considering the 9 sec CD. Mystics? ya, dat many running skills again.

I don't get your point as to how you can get to the thought that wizards suck these days. They are still the most powerful Arcane class. The only difference is that the other classes came a bit closer. Clerics and Mystics got pushed a huge bunch during the last few update/upgrade and are to be considered nearly on par with wizards now. Venos have always been strong. Psys are the class that really is screwed these days. If all you matter is kiteability and defense then oh well...how can psys not be the worst arcane class there is?

It's the same with any other class: If old strategies doesn't work anymore then come up with a counter strategy. Hell, do you remember the times when purify-proc was new? How badly any aps BM, Barb, sin was screwed over in killing arcane classes back then?

STILL! THEY MANAGED AND ADAPTED TO THE FRIGGIN CHANGE AND CAN KEEP UP QUITE GOOD NOW! SO I suggest you do the same.

Geez I really need to call an old friend and record some videos how I win over a great player any class vs any class just to show ppl that it's not the games fault. It's simply their own inability to adapt/play that causes threads and topics like this to exist in the first place. Where there is a strategy to win, there is also always a counterstrategy. period.

PS: thats the best thing to do when someone you know thinks that his class is brokenly weak. Switch classes. Beat him with that "oh-so-weak-class" and he will shut up 4ever. promise.

Just remember guys. Sometimes it's really just you. If you can 10000% point out that it's notyour own fault and not a problem on your end then it's ok. then you can go and blame others for it. Until then: shut it.

man i currently hit NPH for 12k crit with undine 3spark tea ice prison 155-dex-spark pyrogram

now tell me what i am supposed to do to kill a barb after lvl 10 passives

while he can DPS, purge and spam paralyze me

Joe - Morai

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

man i currently hit NPH for 12k crit with undine 3spark tea ice prison 155-dex-spark pyrogram

now tell me what i am supposed to do to kill a barb after lvl 10 passives

while he can DPS, purge and spam paralyze me

Whats that NPH thing all over the place. He hit me for way less then I hit him. Purged you would have also gotten 40k+ at least with your mentioned setup. Besides you act like those 48 def lvl would reduce the dmg anyone takes by 80% or more o.O thats a bit unrealistic. It might have been possible that he used Solid Shield + def charms meanwhile or true emptiness or bestial rage.

Besides. Barbs are tanks. No class should be able to beat a max vit, full josd barb (also more with r8r def lvl weap) while playing completely defensive. And tbh, no class is. You can't kill a barb like that no matter what you do. Nothing gets through nearly capped defenses even while being unbuffed + 140+ Def lvl. On the other hand: A barb like that poses no threat to you and can't come even close to killing you as the debuff + arma thing is outdated as well ( + like kossy said...only a complete moron falls for that these days which is why I am max STR).

I guess you can pretty much kill NPH no problem if you just wait for the right time to make a move. Especially with a right timed life reversion which should have a good chance considering your soulforce.

It's not that easy to rock as a wiz like it was back in the day...but to me that's an enhancement. Now wizards are more fun and more challenging to play, means not any moron can own with a wiz. Isn't that good? For me, that could be a reason to roll a wiz now.

EDIT: Hot, you don't really wanna have a class that has OP defenses and OP attack Power do you? What's the point in being effortlessly stronger then others? Isn't it way more satisfying and a bit more of an accomplishment to win over ppl with skill and gameplay? For me it's just like that. Easy to say as a barb huh? But honestly. I would trade my barb for an equally geared wizard cuz in all honesty...I'm a natural born wizard xDDDD

XXHotXx - Morai

Joe - Morai wrote: »

Whats that NPH thing all over the place. He hit me for way less then I hit him. Purged you would have also gotten 40k+ at least with your mentioned setup. Besides you act like those 48 def lvl would reduce the dmg anyone takes by 80% or more o.O thats a bit unrealistic. It might have been possible that he used Solid Shield + def charms meanwhile or true emptiness or bestial rage.

Besides. Barbs are tanks. No class should be able to beat a max vit, full josd barb (also more with r8r def lvl weap) while playing completely defensive. And tbh, no class is. You can't kill a barb like that no matter what you do. Nothing gets through nearly capped defenses even while being unbuffed + 140+ Def lvl. On the other hand: A barb like that poses no threat to you and can't come even close to killing you as the debuff + arma thing is outdated as well ( + like kossy said...only a complete moron falls for that these days which is why I am max STR).

I guess you can pretty much kill NPH no problem if you just wait for the right time to make a move. Especially with a right timed life reversion which should have a good chance considering your soulforce.

It's not that easy to rock as a wiz like it was back in the day...but to me that's an enhancement. Now wizards ar emore fun and more challenging to play, means not any moron can own with a wiz. Isn't that good? For me, that could be a reason to roll a wiz now.

man prolly you missed that he got an S set with my same % bonus at lvl 80 now and i pretty much witnessed him running into an endgame squad of r9s and surviving it

and that 12k was a damage test in duel...(its the same combo which i hit you 80k non crit) with lvl 10 passives and new boundary\nuemas he will have stuff like 40k m res 120 def levels 50k hp and 1k spirit

#devs

opkossy

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

well yea at the end of the day you are right, its really frustrating that couple of classes got wrecked from last patch and what is coming next it will be making it even worse..
this is not a game where if your class gets nerfed you can simply reroll,
you need prolly years to reroll from scratch

and i dont even know why i am debating it since its pointless and wont affect the devs mind...

And with that, I'm ducking out for now.

Never was a fan of the whole "let's counter the OP by making something even more OP" system that seems to have taken root in here. I like that the devs tried to nerf demon ironwood with redstone while still making it at least look decent but since redstone's kinda sorta optional... well... yeah didn't go quite as intended.

Joe - Morai

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

man prolly you missed that he got an S set with my same % bonus at lvl 80 now and i pretty much witnessed him running into an endgame squad of r9s and surviving it

and that 12k was a damage test in duel...(its the same combo which i hit you 80k non crit) with lvl 10 passives and new boundary\nuemas he will have stuff like 40k m res 120 def levels 50k hp and 1k spirit

#devs

I havn't missed that. I just noticed that he died really fast in the tws I fought against him with decent. Purge -> Amp (from my veno) and he was dead in 2 seconds. He alrdy got his S-Set by that time and his josd.

Still he will only have that with buffs. Buffs suck and are no where needed these days..although I doubt that a non max vit barb can reach 40k mag def. 30k at max. Well I gonna take a look at him next time I see him.

XXHotXx - Morai

Joe - Morai wrote: »

I havn't missed that. I just noticed that he died really fast in the tws I fought against him with decent. Purge -> Amp (from my veno) and he was dead in 2 seconds. He alrdy got his S-Set by that time and his josd.

Still he will only have that with buffs. Buffs suck and are no where needed these days..although I doubt that a non max vit barb can reach 40k mag def. 30k at max. Well I gonna take a look at him next time I see him.

O.o there was a Serenity - Schicksal tw this year? i prolly missed that

well he has like 35k now with lvl 10 passives he will have roughly 20% more
there is no way a wizard will be able to kill a barb on equal endgame gears, hits wont remotely bypass, wiz cant purge and cant DPS (:

you suggested me to find other counter tactics to adapt to the new meta...
i would really like to hear suggestions about it, cause pretty much there is nothing really that a wizard can pull respect what he already pulls in pvp,
maybe switch to a hyper-channelling build? ...that ...maybe

but we are going a bit off-topic

so to close the argument, yea primal stone barrier doesnt have any added bonus\effect respect the lvl 11 one, just faster cast and halved chi cost

eventho imo primal version should've gotten the version as it was intended in a suggestion post by a wanmei dev with the death-chain and sos proc
that would've been a nice counter to elimination

Joe - Morai

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

O.o there was a Serenity - Schicksal tw this year? i prolly missed that

well he has like 35k now with lvl 10 passives he will have roughly 20% more
there is no way a wizard will be able to kill a barb on equal endgame gears, hits wont remotely bypass, wiz cant purge and cant DPS (:

you suggested me to find other counter tactics to adapt to the new meta...
i would really like to hear suggestions about it, cause pretty much there is nothing really that a wizard can pull respect what he already pulls in pvp,
maybe switch to a hyper-channelling build? ...that ...maybe

but we are going a bit off-topic

so to close the argument, yea primal stone barrier doesnt have any added bonus\effect respect the lvl 11 one, just faster cast and halved chi cost

eventho imo primal version should've gotten the version as it was intended in a suggestion post by a wanmei dev with the death-chain and sos proc
that would've been a nice counter to elimination

Nah. It was Decent vs Serenity and to add to that. If NPH would make that much of a difference they wouldn't have lost to a 10 man guild back in the day xDD

Are you overexagferationg here? He can't be at 35k mag def. Not even buffed cept if he would be max vit...but then he would have like 60k HP alrdy. I'm at 18,5 k mag def unbuffed and I got a lvl 40 A card at durability slot that is a 15% set card as well. With a lvl80 70% S-Set durability card he would have around 1k base mag def more then me. But oh well who knows. Dont know his exact gears. WoA would add another 400 mdef...and then there are engraves.

BTT: Nah adding stuff like that would have totally broken wizards again. 150% pdef on demon is already enough. Hot if you need more pdef then lvl your myst old man card to 80