TW Imbalance Solution :P

Cawcawwww - Archosaur
Cawcawwww - Archosaur Posts: 75 Arc User
edited July 2014 in Suggestion Box
max 40 or 60 players a side can participate in a tw . . .

problem solved
Post edited by Cawcawwww - Archosaur on

Comments

  • Titoto - Raging Tide
    Titoto - Raging Tide Posts: 96 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Cawcawwww - Archosaur wrote: »
    max 40 or 60 players a side can participate in a tw . . .

    problem solved

    How exactly does this solve that problem if a faction has 40 or 60 full r9rr's while the faction they're fighting has at most 30 full r9rr's?
    My forum avatar has been through so many changes by itself it's not even funny -.-
  • Xxxpicklexxx - Heavens Tear
    Xxxpicklexxx - Heavens Tear Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Sorry, what problem is this supposed to solve? You got one faction thats way stronger than any others? Learn to work together against the common enemy as another single super faction, or set up gank weekends. You can attack like 7 lands owned by the same faction at once now i think? no matter how big that faction is, they cant defend seven at once. They are going to lose lands. When they get too many lands again, rinse and repeat. I just wish Heavens Tear would learn this tactic also. This way you can keep a large faction down to like 4-5 lands until they get p1ssed and float off to other factions.
  • Fae_Harpy - Archosaur
    Fae_Harpy - Archosaur Posts: 267 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Xxxpicklexxx - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Sorry, what problem is this supposed to solve? You got one faction thats way stronger than any others? Learn to work together against the common enemy as another single super faction, or set up gank weekends. You can attack like 7 lands owned by the same faction at once now i think? no matter how big that faction is, they cant defend seven at once. They are going to lose lands. When they get too many lands again, rinse and repeat. I just wish Heavens Tear would learn this tactic also. This way you can keep a large faction down to like 4-5 lands until they get p1ssed and float off to other factions.

    There are times even that doesn't work. I know last season a bunch of factions arranged a 7 way gank, the faction that was hit only lost 1 land ( which I believe they took back the following week).

    Some factions are so powerful that they can send in one squad and wipe a tier 2 faction in under 10 minutes, I've seen it happen... it's not pretty. And that's even with the tier 2 trying to win (emphasis on the word "trying"). b:sad
    AstriaFae
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  • Metalogue - Archosaur
    Metalogue - Archosaur Posts: 320 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Xxxpicklexxx - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Sorry, what problem is this supposed to solve? You got one faction thats way stronger than any others? Learn to work together against the common enemy as another single super faction, or set up gank weekends. You can attack like 7 lands owned by the same faction at once now i think? no matter how big that faction is, they cant defend seven at once. They are going to lose lands. When they get too many lands again, rinse and repeat. I just wish Heavens Tear would learn this tactic also. This way you can keep a large faction down to like 4-5 lands until they get p1ssed and float off to other factions.


    Good luck getting people to care and coming up with an answer to their question of: "what are they doing to bother me and why should I care?"

    The part about them getting pissed and floating off to other factions, how would weekly guaranteed TW **** them off, and why would they leave during a barrage of multiple attacks each week? If anything that would make them stay o_o Also, with towers and a single squad of DD, it's pretty easy to hold off one of the small 7 factions for ~30 minutes until the cata squads are finished. (because the liklihood of 7 medium to large sized factions existing, let alone attacking, is pretty slim)

    @OP, this would pretty much solve only lag related issues, not much else.
  • Xxxpicklexxx - Heavens Tear
    Xxxpicklexxx - Heavens Tear Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Even if they only lose 1 land per week, that will bring them to a standstill (i know, along with everyone ganking them), but the point is with big factions like that, is you have to get under their skin somehow. I would say gank them every week, they might lose 2 lands next week. You can't just do it once, you need to hammer away at them. Some weeks they aren't going to able to field as many people, they will lose more land. This can be really demoralizing, cause faction splits, weakening them further.
  • Metalogue - Archosaur
    Metalogue - Archosaur Posts: 320 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Xxxpicklexxx - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Even if they only lose 1 land per week, that will bring them to a standstill (i know, along with everyone ganking them), but the point is with big factions like that, is you have to get under their skin somehow. I would say gank them every week, they might lose 2 lands next week. You can't just do it once, you need to hammer away at them. Some weeks they aren't going to able to field as many people, they will lose more land. This can be really demoralizing, cause faction splits, weakening them further.

    Orrrr defending 6 out of 7, or even 5 out of 7, can really boost their morale. But personal morale aside, they're still getting guaranteed TW each week, IF:

    1) There are that many factions that exist on said server that can put forth a serious bid
    2) They all actually care and want to attack said large faction



    My own opinion regarding fixing TW imbalances? Either remove TW map resets (large-scale TW) or shorten it to 3 months (small/medium-scale TW)
  • Xxxpicklexxx - Heavens Tear
    Xxxpicklexxx - Heavens Tear Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    i mean that if they keep losing lands, it will get rid of the bandwagoners that are just in faction to say they are in the biggest/winningest faction. The trick is to keep that big faction down to 4-5 lands, if they start to get more, do the gank. Next few weeks, go get more lands for yourself, they start to get big again, another gank. Like a gank every month just to keep their land count as low as you can.
    My main point is, that you dont need less people per TW, you need to work better as a server if your goal is to keep the big faction from taking the crown at the end of the season.
  • Fae_Harpy - Archosaur
    Fae_Harpy - Archosaur Posts: 267 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Xxxpicklexxx - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Even if they only lose 1 land per week, that will bring them to a standstill (i know, along with everyone ganking them), but the point is with big factions like that, is you have to get under their skin somehow. I would say gank them every week, they might lose 2 lands next week. You can't just do it once, you need to hammer away at them. Some weeks they aren't going to able to field as many people, they will lose more land. This can be really demoralizing, cause faction splits, weakening them further.

    I think you have the backwards, it will not be the Top Dog faction being demoralized, but the smaller dogs who are being facerolled in under 10 minutes. In most ganks (at least from the ones I've seen) what usually happens is you have a several 2nd and 3rd tier factions that attack and then one other tier 1. The tier 2/3 factions get totally decimated, and then the tier 1 faction succeeds (though sometimes even they lose).

    At this point the lower tiered factions realize they are being used as nothing more than sacrificial pawns to help ensure the tier 1's win. In actuality they have no chance of winning against a faction that power, and as a faction leader can a person really justify asking their members to waste millions of coins each battle, when they are just going to lose. Sure you could go into the battle with no pots/charms and avoid being hit so you don't have any repairs, but then you are just wasting your time and you might as well not bid at all. A lower level faction attacking a high powered faction is like going into NW when you are level 60, you are nothing but a punching bag; but there is one noted difference and that is at the end, unlike NW, you have nothing to show for your effort. Also even if you do decide to continue in helping the other faction overtake the map, there is no guarantee that they won't turn around and attack you (if you have lands).

    In truth, there is no benefit for lower level factions that help arrange a gank on a very strong faction; they will always end up with the short end of the stick. It is far better for them to focus their time and energy on other factions that are within their level. Plus there is a very good chance that by not participating, the faction that is being gank is going to appreciate it and leave you alone. A faction is kind of like a family, you look after your own first.

    Sorry for the wall of text. b:cute
    AstriaFae
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I looked to the stars, my aim true.
    Heart peirced, the light flowed.
    And from the dust of Sagittarrius,
    I crafted a bow.
  • Xxxpicklexxx - Heavens Tear
    Xxxpicklexxx - Heavens Tear Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    i guess im thinking more from a Heavens Tear perspective. If it was to be done over here, the top tier faction would not stand a chance.
  • trands
    trands Posts: 2
    edited July 2014
    Smaller TW is not a solution for lack of players and gear gap that's to big.

    In order to "fix" the problem, you need to get those other factions to rival the big one(s). GL finding a way to do that without initiating massive abuse. Fixing downwards will work only a short time because it creates a negative spiral with more and more players leaving. A 30vs30 or 40vs40 are dull. The map is to big for that, to many cata's and to little coordination factor involved.
  • Jaabg - Sanctuary
    Jaabg - Sanctuary Posts: 2,256 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I apologise i did not read all your replies. Just had a quick idea, what if multiple factions could fight on the same tw map. In the start there is a time to make alliances. After that same rules apply. If the defender holds out against attackers, they win. If attacker A kills attacker B, but not defender, attacker A loses out. If attacker A kills defender, and loses their base to attacker B, attacker A loses out.

    If defender and attacker A decide to team up, well, we'll have to figure out the rewards. Atleast this way all the people who bid on the same land can join in on the fun, even if they are a small faction.

    My reply is by no means suppose to shift this topic to the suggestion subforum. The topic itself should be moved, since it is a proposed solution suggested b:chuckle.
  • Eoria - Harshlands
    Eoria - Harshlands Posts: 6,118 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    If servers aren't going to be merged anytime soon, then I'm completely in favor of smaller TWs/shorter resets. b:surrender
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    105/105/105 obtained! b:cute
  • Reliea - Sanctuary
    Reliea - Sanctuary Posts: 685 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I don't know >.>
    I like the idea of smaller tw sizes, due to extreeeeme crippling lag when 80v80 smush together in a small space. I'd like not to have to turn all the effects off just to be able to move.

    Though coming from a faction that comes up with 70+ regularly, it would mean less would get a chance to participate, and there already is gear snobbery in general that would almost always stop certain people from almost ever getting a chance to participate. So I guess it would boil down to all the R9+10s vs each other all the time every time, which as far as "gear equality" goes would be the best(?) example of vs on equal footing. But that's dumb.

    I like Jaabg's idea of allied factions being able to join in TW together.
    While you could say "just merge factions together blahblah" would be a better option, people do get very attached to their own factions and want to maintain their individual faction identity, and while not being strong enough to tw on their own, still want an opportunity to have decent TW experiences. So it could be fun, and a good reason to actually use the alliance system, and cause some interesting match ups and/or surprises in a fairly bland TW landscape. It might even encourage more people to spread out into a variety of factions, instead of funneling into "the most powerful" ones, and cause a more rainbowy land map, which would be fun too :D
    The logistics to allow such things are probably impossible for PWE to execute though (through lack of ability to do so if nothing else).
  • XXHotXx - Morai
    XXHotXx - Morai Posts: 1,246 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »
    If servers aren't going to be merged anytime soon, then I'm completely in favor of smaller TWs/shorter resets. b:surrender

    ^this

    also that would counter silly scenarios as on morai server where basically entire server is against the #3 faction by stregth, demolishing any kind of funny tws
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  • Viktorian - Archosaur
    Viktorian - Archosaur Posts: 746 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    WHAT IS WITH YOU PEOPLE AND CHANGING THE THINGS THAT ARE RIGHT IN THIS GAME??????b:angryb:angryb:angry YOU WANT TO MESS WITH TIGERS, NOW TW!!! LEAVE MY EVENTS ALONE!!!!!b:cryb:cry

    also mark. can you have someone record your "for glory" speech? ive never heard it and apparently its amazing
    Servers: Archosaur(PvE US West) and Harshlands (PvP US East)
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  • Chrisssss - Sanctuary
    Chrisssss - Sanctuary Posts: 531 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Actually that'll make it worse because then top teir factions will be able to def double def or triple def other factions att.

    IMO their really nothing the game can do except get ride of the seasonal rotation because at least on sancuary (this has once to my knowledge, correct if I'm wrong) one faction took over the entire map for like a week or two. Eventaully the faction witherd away internally from disbutes and shear amount of tws each week (from what I heard).

    Overall the best solution is for the game to attract new players in hopes that knowledgable tw players decided to join the smaller ones. Doubt it'll happen anytime soon but I have my hopes currently it's just a rotation of the same players between 3 different factions that has had roots from different factions that started off being the first tw factions (cept one I think).
  • XXHotXx - Morai
    XXHotXx - Morai Posts: 1,246 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Chrisssss - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Actually that'll make it worse because then top teir factions will be able to def double def or triple def other factions att.

    IMO their really nothing the game can do except get ride of the seasonal rotation because at least on sancuary (this has once to my knowledge, correct if I'm wrong) one faction took over the entire map for like a week or two. Eventaully the faction witherd away internally from disbutes and shear amount of tws each week (from what I heard).

    Overall the best solution is for the game to attract new players in hopes that knowledgable tw players decided to join the smaller ones. Doubt it'll happen anytime soon but I have my hopes currently it's just a rotation of the same players between 3 different factions that has had roots from different factions that started off being the first tw factions (cept one I think).

    being honest how many factions on the same server can dish out constantly 80 players per tw? 1 or 2 per server?

    ofc the dominating faction wont be able to defend multiple 80-man tws, but there wouldnt even be a dominating faction in first place if there are multiple 80-man tw factions on the map

    reduce tw-size to 60 and you ll' have the same "dominating" faction giving fair\funny tws to all the attackers

    unless you do not play tws for the fun factor, thats kind of ****

    also yea the lag thinghie,

    i believe the TW instance allocates a very limited amount of memory (or bandwidth?) "server side",
    reducing the number of players in the same instance will alow the same instance to lag a lot less
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  • Metalogue - Archosaur
    Metalogue - Archosaur Posts: 320 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Viktorian - Archosaur wrote: »

    also mark. can you have someone record your "for glory" speech? ive never heard it and apparently its amazing

    To suggest recording such glory is blasphemy that shall be punished by the everlasting wrath of Asgard!! b:angry

    Chrisssss - Sanctuary wrote: »
    IMO their really nothing the game can do except get ride of the seasonal rotation because at least on sancuary (this has once to my knowledge, correct if I'm wrong) one faction took over the entire map for like a week or two. Eventaully the faction witherd away internally from disbutes and shear amount of tws each week (from what I heard).

    This. It's happened on Archosaur and probably every other server as well, and while I can't speak for the others, on Archosaur that's virtually what happened.... minus the constant attacks; but it was a new server at the time (compared to today, and compared to how old Sanc is) and people got bored. If that were to happen now, with many more players on the server, there would definitely be the constant attacks that Sanc had. There was no "Let's wait for reset and gear up in the meantime" and no other source of TW. When this happens, either you want to TW and attack that faction, or you just become a non-TW faction.
  • tysond88
    tysond88 Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    They could always do tws based on spirit only so much spirit is aloud to enter a tw...that would make things alot more even for other factions that dont have as many r9rrs
  • heerohex#3018
    heerohex#3018 Posts: 4,885 Community Moderator
    edited July 2014
    With an upcoming patch that would seam to address this issue i really think we should be holding on with this issue.

    Since most people that have posted are saying this wont help and in some sense I agree im not going to log this one now and say wait and see...

    Thanks,
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  • Viktorian - Archosaur
    Viktorian - Archosaur Posts: 746 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Metalogue - Archosaur wrote: »
    To suggest recording such glory is blasphemy that shall be punished by the everlasting wrath of Asgard!! b:angry




    This. It's happened on Archosaur and probably every other server as well, and while I can't speak for the others, on Archosaur that's virtually what happened.... minus the constant attacks; but it was a new server at the time (compared to today, and compared to how old Sanc is) and people got bored. If that were to happen now, with many more players on the server, there would definitely be the constant attacks that Sanc had. There was no "Let's wait for reset and gear up in the meantime" and no other source of TW. When this happens, either you want to TW and attack that faction, or you just become a non-TW faction.

    Well then you have to say it before Nem tw vs darkness today.
    Servers: Archosaur(PvE US West) and Harshlands (PvP US East)
    Chars: Viktorian(100 2Rb Celestial Demon BM) PurpleHealz (100 Celestial Sage Cleric) DagsAway (95 Assassin)
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  • Kalopsia - Dreamweaver
    Kalopsia - Dreamweaver Posts: 78 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Funny no one from Dreamweaver's former top faction posted on this... When I suggested the idea months ago http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1678811 all I got was negativity from them and their alt accounts... so many haters <3

    Now that my faction is on top, I still feel the same way in regards to the topic. There aren't enough people for a diversified TW map, and not enough competition per individual TW. Same as I thought before, this time in the perspective of someone whose faction is on top.

    Again merge would be ideal, if economies could be settled to something somewhat equal.
  • Viktorian - Archosaur
    Viktorian - Archosaur Posts: 746 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Kalopsia - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Funny no one from Dreamweaver's former top faction posted on this... When I suggested the idea months ago http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1678811 all I got was negativity from them and their alt accounts... so many haters <3

    Read this thread(complete yawn fest but i read it) and other then 6 people offering their opinions from Dreamweaver, most of the hate and negativity you got was from RT server. Aside from WangoTangos obvious trolling of you, it turned from a change the tw numbers to a change the maps. Then Darkskies posted and it became a "about our faction thread". Then we got back on topic after Eoria posted, and out of the blue(after posting i rrealized the irony in this) you insult SakuLv. Drag attempts to get thread back on track(failed miserably(dont worry Drag we still <333 u)) more obvious trolling from WangoTango and SakuLv fires back. Nethare becomes completely correct on how to build a factions tw numbers and u attempt to make yourself a victim. SakuLv refuses to let that happen and for the rest of the thread, mods refuse to do their job. Dont worry kossy,Venus, other mods i keep forgetting about(i know another one starts with a K(so sorry)) we still <333 you. well, most of us anyway.
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    Chars: Viktorian(100 2Rb Celestial Demon BM) PurpleHealz (100 Celestial Sage Cleric) DagsAway (95 Assassin)
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