A "Fair Game" 1v1 Arena
Kiteme - Lost City
Posts: 6 Arc User
For years now, this game has suffered from a massive imbalance between the cash players and free players. The difference between your everyday free to play player and an end game competitive PvP player have a gear gap worth thousands of US Dollars. Most people simply cannot put in that much money to purchase the gear, nor can they put in that much dedication to farm/merchant for the gears. As a result, many players decide to simply quit the game. Why? Because there is no motivation. Afterall, PvE in this game really isn't much. Perfect World, at it's core, is still a PvP game.
Most players at this point cannot even hope to taste what it is like to PvP at end game. Even if they have the money, why should they bother cashshopping thousands of dollars without knowing whether they'll even like the PvP or not?
A 1v1 Arena can solve this issue. It can let people experience what PvP is like. It will let them have a taste of end-game PvP in a limit and restricted situation, so that they are willing to put the money in to PvP competitively in the many unlimited and unrestricted areas of the game. (Territory Wars, Nation Wars, World PvP, etc.)
But just any plain old Arena won't do. You need an arena that will enforce "Fair Game". The Arena must adjust for gear differences! Players need to experience PvP without suffering from the large gear gap this game has. Only then can they be motivated to continue player, PvPing, and cashshopping. The opportunity to fight under an equal geared circumstance is what this game has been lacking for a long time.
Here is what I have in mind:
1. You can teleport into the arena from anywhere. Preferably via a button from the in-game menus. This will help draw attention to the fact that the arena exists, even to new players. Using the arena must be completely free.
2. When you enter the arena, you are put into a waiting room. The arena will operate with a "room" system. Players can host their own room, or join other people's room. Each room is a unique instance for the player who made the room ("The Host"), and a person who is challenging the host. Spectators can also join the room. Spectators will be in a special stealth where they cannot hit anyone, and no one can see or hit them. The two players cannot attack each other until the system does a countdown and declare the fight has begun.
3. The creator of the room will be able to set certain restrictions, and the game will automatically enforce it on the players. Some restrictions that come to mind are:
a. No Stealth
b. No Healing/Mana Potions
c. No Apothecary
d. No Defense Charms
e. No Guardian/Spirit Charms
f. No Genies
g. No Spirit of Defense (This is technically considered an Apothecary. However, due to its long lasting duration, people may object to only this apothecary but not the rest.)
4. When the fight begins, both players will be granted a buff. This buff will grant the player additional stats (Physical Attack, Magical Attack, Crit Rate, Defenses, Spirit, Attack and Defense level, etc.) The additional stat gain must be calculated based on their current stats. With the buffs, both player's final stats should be equivalent to what they would have if they had fully refined and fully sharded end game gears.
Note however, that Jades of Steady Defense, Creation Stones, and Deitiy Stones are all equally good end game shards. The buff that grants players additional stats should calculate for shards this way:
a. If they have any Diamond of Tiger, it will become Deity Stone.
b. If they have any Deity Stone, it will remain as a Deity Stone.
c. Everything else will become Jade of Steady Defense.
Regarding player's attribute points: it should be modified only if the player does not have enough points to wear the end game gears. In that case, the attribute points will be redistributed by the buff that the player receives when they enter the arena.
5. Skills and Genies will not be adjusted. It will be too confusing for players to constantly adjust their skill bar every time they enter the arena. It also encourages people to level up, rather than just fighting in the arena at level 1 all day.
6. It should grant players weapon procs (e.g. God of Frenzy) if the player does not already have it on their weapon.
7. When the fight begins, both players will automatically be granted full HP, full MP, and full chi. All their skill cooldowns will also be reset. Any additional buffs that does not belong to their class (except for the arena buff) will be removed. This is to ensure the fight is fair.
8. Everything used in the arena will be refunded at the end of the fight. Or simply, using them within the arena does not consume the item. This should include Guardian/Spirit Charms, HP/MP Potions, Apothecary, Defense Charms.
9. The system will automatically announce a winner when one of the player dies, or a draw if both players die. Dead players should automatically respawn in the room. Once a winner is announced, the fight is considered over, and players can no longer attack each other until both players declare they are ready again.
10. A ranking system for the arena that records win/lose would be nice.
Now, if you have legit criticism, then feel free to comment. However, please don't write posts simply bashing PWI. In the past, PWI has granted our wishes before. Things such as Nation Wars map being made smaller again, TW reward being reset to Big Notes, Ini editting being allowed, and much more. Sure, they're not developers, but they are a publisher. If they can communicate with china enough to set up all these servers and keep them updated, then they can definitely pass on the suggestion and have it implemented. If there is enough people supporting this expansion, it may very well appear.
Q & A:
Q: What about the people that don't care about PvP? Why should they support this?
A: The Arena will not be a requirement. It will only be an additional feature of the game that is completely optional. PvErs will benefit from this because PvPers need to farm and level up too. This arena will motivate people to level up and farm, thereby also benefiting the PvE population.
Q: Equal gears and everything refunded? Wouldn't this greatly decrease PWI's income?
A: It would actually increase PWI's income. At this point, there are more people quitting the game than there are people staying because they simply cannot stand a chance in PvP. This arena will motivate people to stay and cashshop for PvP in the long run.
Q: I don't see a point of having everything refunded.
A: The target audience of the arena is people who are new to the game, or aren't that rich. A free to play players may eventually become cashshoppers, but they won't be until they can get a taste of what end game PvP is like. Most people cannot afford spending millions on a charm. People are already having difficulties funding themselves for Nation Wars. If they can get cost free PvP now, they will have a better chance to farm/cash later.
Q: No one will use this because people can simply gear down if they want a fair fight.
A: Not necessarily true. Gearing down is a hassle. How do you determine how much a person should gear down until it is considered fair? It's a tricky question with no consensus. It is much easier to gear up than it is to gear down. This arena will provide just that.
Q: No one will use this because no one wants a fair fight.
A: I'm sure a few world chats can change that easily. People have a tendency to want to "prove" that they are "better".
Q: This is a bad idea because no one will world pk any more if this is implemented.
A: While this is a valid concern, I don't think this will remove world pk. For one, this Arena will only be 1 v 1. So if anyone wants to do more than a 1 v 1, they're gonna world pk. Secondly, with the amount of dailies these days, you can find people in the world quite easily if you want to world pk. Finally, people will world pk because they don't want to be alone in the arena all day.
Q: This will make people who farmed/cashed for gears quit.
A: Not at all. This arena is strictly 1 v 1. What about TW? What about NW? What about anything more than a 1 v 1? There are many many more places where people who farmed/cashed for gears can put their gears to use. This arena will simply encourage those who don't have to gears to farm for it.
Q: You are wrong, this will deter people from farming/cashing gears.
A: Maybe if they are the type who plays this game to 1v1 ONLY. I'm sure most people do a lot more than 1 v 1 the entire day. This arena will let them see what they have been missing. It will encourage them to get stronger for the many other events and features in the game. And even if they are the type that play this game to 1 v 1 the entire day, it is unlikely they'll want to cash their gears anyway if they don't know how end game pvp feels like.
Most players at this point cannot even hope to taste what it is like to PvP at end game. Even if they have the money, why should they bother cashshopping thousands of dollars without knowing whether they'll even like the PvP or not?
A 1v1 Arena can solve this issue. It can let people experience what PvP is like. It will let them have a taste of end-game PvP in a limit and restricted situation, so that they are willing to put the money in to PvP competitively in the many unlimited and unrestricted areas of the game. (Territory Wars, Nation Wars, World PvP, etc.)
But just any plain old Arena won't do. You need an arena that will enforce "Fair Game". The Arena must adjust for gear differences! Players need to experience PvP without suffering from the large gear gap this game has. Only then can they be motivated to continue player, PvPing, and cashshopping. The opportunity to fight under an equal geared circumstance is what this game has been lacking for a long time.
Here is what I have in mind:
1. You can teleport into the arena from anywhere. Preferably via a button from the in-game menus. This will help draw attention to the fact that the arena exists, even to new players. Using the arena must be completely free.
2. When you enter the arena, you are put into a waiting room. The arena will operate with a "room" system. Players can host their own room, or join other people's room. Each room is a unique instance for the player who made the room ("The Host"), and a person who is challenging the host. Spectators can also join the room. Spectators will be in a special stealth where they cannot hit anyone, and no one can see or hit them. The two players cannot attack each other until the system does a countdown and declare the fight has begun.
3. The creator of the room will be able to set certain restrictions, and the game will automatically enforce it on the players. Some restrictions that come to mind are:
a. No Stealth
b. No Healing/Mana Potions
c. No Apothecary
d. No Defense Charms
e. No Guardian/Spirit Charms
f. No Genies
g. No Spirit of Defense (This is technically considered an Apothecary. However, due to its long lasting duration, people may object to only this apothecary but not the rest.)
4. When the fight begins, both players will be granted a buff. This buff will grant the player additional stats (Physical Attack, Magical Attack, Crit Rate, Defenses, Spirit, Attack and Defense level, etc.) The additional stat gain must be calculated based on their current stats. With the buffs, both player's final stats should be equivalent to what they would have if they had fully refined and fully sharded end game gears.
Note however, that Jades of Steady Defense, Creation Stones, and Deitiy Stones are all equally good end game shards. The buff that grants players additional stats should calculate for shards this way:
a. If they have any Diamond of Tiger, it will become Deity Stone.
b. If they have any Deity Stone, it will remain as a Deity Stone.
c. Everything else will become Jade of Steady Defense.
Regarding player's attribute points: it should be modified only if the player does not have enough points to wear the end game gears. In that case, the attribute points will be redistributed by the buff that the player receives when they enter the arena.
5. Skills and Genies will not be adjusted. It will be too confusing for players to constantly adjust their skill bar every time they enter the arena. It also encourages people to level up, rather than just fighting in the arena at level 1 all day.
6. It should grant players weapon procs (e.g. God of Frenzy) if the player does not already have it on their weapon.
7. When the fight begins, both players will automatically be granted full HP, full MP, and full chi. All their skill cooldowns will also be reset. Any additional buffs that does not belong to their class (except for the arena buff) will be removed. This is to ensure the fight is fair.
8. Everything used in the arena will be refunded at the end of the fight. Or simply, using them within the arena does not consume the item. This should include Guardian/Spirit Charms, HP/MP Potions, Apothecary, Defense Charms.
9. The system will automatically announce a winner when one of the player dies, or a draw if both players die. Dead players should automatically respawn in the room. Once a winner is announced, the fight is considered over, and players can no longer attack each other until both players declare they are ready again.
10. A ranking system for the arena that records win/lose would be nice.
Now, if you have legit criticism, then feel free to comment. However, please don't write posts simply bashing PWI. In the past, PWI has granted our wishes before. Things such as Nation Wars map being made smaller again, TW reward being reset to Big Notes, Ini editting being allowed, and much more. Sure, they're not developers, but they are a publisher. If they can communicate with china enough to set up all these servers and keep them updated, then they can definitely pass on the suggestion and have it implemented. If there is enough people supporting this expansion, it may very well appear.
Q & A:
Q: What about the people that don't care about PvP? Why should they support this?
A: The Arena will not be a requirement. It will only be an additional feature of the game that is completely optional. PvErs will benefit from this because PvPers need to farm and level up too. This arena will motivate people to level up and farm, thereby also benefiting the PvE population.
Q: Equal gears and everything refunded? Wouldn't this greatly decrease PWI's income?
A: It would actually increase PWI's income. At this point, there are more people quitting the game than there are people staying because they simply cannot stand a chance in PvP. This arena will motivate people to stay and cashshop for PvP in the long run.
Q: I don't see a point of having everything refunded.
A: The target audience of the arena is people who are new to the game, or aren't that rich. A free to play players may eventually become cashshoppers, but they won't be until they can get a taste of what end game PvP is like. Most people cannot afford spending millions on a charm. People are already having difficulties funding themselves for Nation Wars. If they can get cost free PvP now, they will have a better chance to farm/cash later.
Q: No one will use this because people can simply gear down if they want a fair fight.
A: Not necessarily true. Gearing down is a hassle. How do you determine how much a person should gear down until it is considered fair? It's a tricky question with no consensus. It is much easier to gear up than it is to gear down. This arena will provide just that.
Q: No one will use this because no one wants a fair fight.
A: I'm sure a few world chats can change that easily. People have a tendency to want to "prove" that they are "better".
Q: This is a bad idea because no one will world pk any more if this is implemented.
A: While this is a valid concern, I don't think this will remove world pk. For one, this Arena will only be 1 v 1. So if anyone wants to do more than a 1 v 1, they're gonna world pk. Secondly, with the amount of dailies these days, you can find people in the world quite easily if you want to world pk. Finally, people will world pk because they don't want to be alone in the arena all day.
Q: This will make people who farmed/cashed for gears quit.
A: Not at all. This arena is strictly 1 v 1. What about TW? What about NW? What about anything more than a 1 v 1? There are many many more places where people who farmed/cashed for gears can put their gears to use. This arena will simply encourage those who don't have to gears to farm for it.
Q: You are wrong, this will deter people from farming/cashing gears.
A: Maybe if they are the type who plays this game to 1v1 ONLY. I'm sure most people do a lot more than 1 v 1 the entire day. This arena will let them see what they have been missing. It will encourage them to get stronger for the many other events and features in the game. And even if they are the type that play this game to 1 v 1 the entire day, it is unlikely they'll want to cash their gears anyway if they don't know how end game pvp feels like.
Post edited by Kiteme - Lost City on
0
Comments
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This is... interesting. Complex and easy to **** up, but interesting nonetheless.
I see a few points I disagree with and others I do like. Will have to remember to come back with more detail.(Insert fancy image here)
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And the ticket to the arena will cost 50 gold b:cute0
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I stopped reading after the QQ about "imbalance between the cash players and free players" sry but u can get the same gear as a cash shopper as a free to play player...takes longer but its possible.. so stop wasting time on creating a event that will nvr come to b and work on getting ur gear b:chuckle0
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idk syl
this arena idea is well thought out. Will benefit china as well as us and there are existing places in the game to put it. (Renegade instance thing for example can be modified to suit this)Servers: Archosaur(PvE US West) and Harshlands (PvP US East)
Chars: Viktorian(100 2Rb Celestial Demon BM) PurpleHealz (100 Celestial Sage Cleric) DagsAway (95 Assassin)
[SIGPIC][/Sigpic]0 -
Sylki - Harshlands wrote: »I stopped reading after the QQ about "imbalance between the cash players and free players" sry but u can get the same gear as a cash shopper as a free to play player...takes longer but its possible.. so stop wasting time on creating a event that will nvr come to b and work on getting ur gear b:chuckle
I'm sorry to hear that. You really should have kept reading. I addressed all your points in my original post.0 -
Viktorian - Archosaur wrote: »idk syl
this arena idea is well thought out. Will benefit china as well as us and there are existing places in the game to put it. (Renegade instance thing for example can be modified to suit this)
except it'll nvr b read by china devs so it doesn't rly matter if he posts this b:surrender0 -
Sylki - Harshlands wrote: »except it'll nvr b read by china devs so it doesn't rly matter if he posts this b:surrender
You never know. Sparkie may come and look at this think hmmm that interesting and talk to the programming staff at pwe to see if something like this is possible. Then if it is send it to china. That's what I'd do tbch.
Also rereading this, instead of something like gear being upgraded, why not arena gear? The arena would have its own gear, similar to rrr9 that disappears when leaving the arena. That way people could 1v1 this char or that char that has way better gear then them normally. The gear would kinda be like the stuff u get when u start delta(GV for some servers)Servers: Archosaur(PvE US West) and Harshlands (PvP US East)
Chars: Viktorian(100 2Rb Celestial Demon BM) PurpleHealz (100 Celestial Sage Cleric) DagsAway (95 Assassin)
[SIGPIC][/Sigpic]0 -
bad idea to have nothing but skills, right now in this messed up meta the class balance completely screwed. Also to top that certain classes like bms, sins, clerics will always win in a scenerio without charms and pots because of their overwhelming damage and cc.░░░░███████]▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
▂▄▅█████████▅▄▃▂ cause i can't make art, so i made
◥⊙▲⊙▲⊙▲⊙▲⊙▲⊙▲⊙▲⊙▲⊙◤this awesome tank.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] 1 shot king. LV 150 FSP bosses hit for 3m. Top Player hit record: 652,656.0 -
PW isn't designed around 1vs1. Even if you normalize the gear, you still have the class differences which will limit enjoyment of this to only a few classes. Apothecary and genie are the great class equalizers (for the most part) and you want to do away with them? You seem to want to take away most things which make combat in PWI what it is. What's left? - A half-baked, watered down version and far from the "endgame experience" you desire. Pot and genie use and conservation is as much part of the endgame pvp experience as anything else. Same with charms. What you've described is a glorified instance for duels with silly arbitrary rules that don't apply to actual gameplay.
The problems that might arise with people ignoring the development of their toons is very real. We might have a free2play game here.. but as it's often said it's pay2win. Be it cold hard cash, time, effort, intellect, blood, sweat, or tears, this game has always required an investment from the player for them to be successful. Taking this away by giving too much for free will hurt the game as it takes away from the feeling of accomplishment. Limitations need to be in place to avoid an Arena-only subculture that would do nothing for the game as a whole.
All that being said, I actually really like the idea of a 1vs1 arena where people have the option to compete with matching gear. I`ve a couple ideas to keep this consistent with the rest of the game and make it more appealing to both the player base and the developers/distributors.
1) Betting. People bet on 1vs1, though not nearly as often as before. This arena could allow 2 players to pay a buy-in (with a 2-5% cut to the house - aka PW) awarding the funds to the winner. Gives a needed coin sink to your idea and removes the risk of a challenger renegging on a bet later. With a coin sink in place you could even have rewards that will benefit the development of their characters outside of this arena which would be incentive to return to the game. Also, you don't need to limit bets to coin... could be items too (untradeble items like supply tokens and primordial blood come to mind).
2) In-arena-only apothecary/charms at low prices. Disable the use of outside apothecary Again, a coin sink, but you can keep costs low by making them expire when leaving the area. This can even the playing field between the affluent and those casual players just looking for a taste of the endgame pvp scene without breaking the existing game mechanics. Basically, instead of taking things away, make them available to everyone.
3) Lockers. Extra bank space anyone? This could be used for arena pots so they don't disappear when you leave, or a place to keep gear/items that aren't used in the arena while fighting inside. Expansions available to be purchased (PWE benefits without affecting gameplay).
4) Time limitations. I'm thinking something along the lines of Map 2-Unicorn Forest type restrictions. Or perhaps something like PV with an item needed for entry that expires after 2-3 hours. People "in the zone" will likely want more when they leave which could boost interest in more conventional PVP.
5) Leave our genies alone. It's part of the game and a decent one doesn't greatly differ from a great one when used skillfully. They're also cheap to maintain.
These are just a few ideas... and surely lacking in some respects but I've tried to provide ideas that fit your goals while retaining the opportunity for everyone to benefit, not just the below average frustrated chump, without changing so much as to be so totally removed from actual gameplay. If your true purpose is indeed to give them an endgame experience, remove the limitations that don't fit the real (perfect) world and find ways around them instead.0 -
Apothecary and genie are the great class equalizers (for the most part) and you want to do away with them? You seem to want to take away most things which make combat in PWI what it is. What's left? - A half-baked, watered down version and far from the "endgame experience" you desire. Pot and genie use and conservation is as much part of the endgame pvp experience as anything else. Same with charms. What you've described is a glorified instance for duels with silly arbitrary rules that don't apply to actual gameplay.
...
These are just a few ideas... and surely lacking in some respects but I've tried to provide ideas that fit your goals while retaining the opportunity for everyone to benefit, not just the below average frustrated chump, without changing so much as to be so totally removed from actual gameplay. If your true purpose is indeed to give them an endgame experience, remove the limitations that don't fit the real (perfect) world and find ways around them instead.
I never said I wanted to remove any of those actually. I simply listed some possible restrictions that people may put in place in a legitimate 1v1, which the room owner has an OPTION of activating.
The rest of your ideas are fine though.0 -
Sylki - Harshlands wrote: »I stopped reading after the QQ about "imbalance between the cash players and free players" sry but u can get the same gear as a cash shopper as a free to play player...takes longer but its possible.. so stop wasting time on creating a event that will nvr come to b and work on getting ur gear b:chuckle
If you are in a PVP server yes possible but on a PVE server with gold cap and economy screwed so hard is almost impossible to reach fully end gear anymore. Even for casual cash shoppers.
I do not agree with you on something.
I think in the arena charms should not be allowed at all.
Not even appo it would make it more competitive.
Genies should be allowed.
Its possible for an arena with "fair game" be made? Yes it is possible.
Swordsman online has a similar system that a lower level character with lower gear can beat a high level character with top rate gear.
I have seen level 50 people defeat level 70 people there in the arena is more about skill than gear.Do you want PWI to fix the economy before is to late?
please support Perfect World International Forum > Suggestion Box
> Limit Auto Cultivation to 1 hour just like Hyper stones0 -
This shouldn't even take them long if they copy it mostly from Swordsman online. It's just a matter of how much time they're going to spend on this.Zsw -104 Sage Assassin
TehZsw - 100 Demon Archer
All Luck No Skillz PvPer: youtube.com/user/zsw0070 -
Sylki - Harshlands wrote: »I stopped reading after the QQ about "imbalance between the cash players and free players" sry but u can get the same gear as a cash shopper as a free to play player...takes longer but its possible.. so stop wasting time on creating a event that will nvr come to b and work on getting ur gear b:chuckle
It's true. You can get end game gear with a lot of effort without cashing in.
I play PWI since it's beggining, but I also stoped playing several times due to brain fatigue. The grind is huge and the amount of times you have to repeat the same instances or quests to get something are stupidily high.
Farming money on a PvP server is something I still don't quite understand. The gold prices fluctuates less than on a PvE server, but in other hand the competition gets seriously higher for small differences as shards or even higher differences as refines, for example. So to be able to compete and have a small chance on PvP you have to spend not only the time to get r9rr, but you also have to spend the same amount of money to put that gear up to a +12 refine with some 4 JoSDs per piece. Then you must farm your recast for Robe/Cloak, which is also stupid in matters of price/time.
Due to these grind and unbalanced prices between normal users and paying users, I've got bored an incountable amount of times. Anyway I always come back after a few months and enjoy playing for a while, then I'll stop playing again and so on. I believe that there's a lot of people that are the same as me on this.
PWI is repetitive and gets boring after several hardcore gearing runs.Notice: Any game is better than PWI atm, so give PWI a break and go try other MMOs! Do it...
PM me if you want more information about the best MMOs (Warning: biased opinion upon trial)0 -
I agree that we should have something like this.
Not all the details you post though, but thats just details. The general idea i agree with
I would prefer to go a little further and have a map editor where players can make their own maps/arenas. Player made content is THE solution against games getting boring.Everything i write is from PvE perspective unless mentioned otherwise.0 -
WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »I agree that we should have something like this.
Not all the details you post though, but thats just details. The general idea i agree with
I would prefer to go a little further and have a map editor where players can make their own maps/arenas. Player made content is THE solution against games getting boring.
The serialization of new maps with this engine is absurd bro. You can make a new map but other computers with different processing units will have an hard time decoding what your machine decided to write on the serialized object. Loading times would become strictly absurd.
This happens due to the engine running based on CPU only. Otherwise, THAT'S A FA CKIN NICE IDEA MAN! Notice: Any game is better than PWI atm, so give PWI a break and go try other MMOs! Do it...
PM me if you want more information about the best MMOs (Warning: biased opinion upon trial)0 -
Another idea is create new type of currency.
and have an arena where players can enter at any time.
group vs group.
If you lose you get half points if you win double points.
You can use currency to buy items.
Maybe the currency can be even event gold.Do you want PWI to fix the economy before is to late?
please support Perfect World International Forum > Suggestion Box
> Limit Auto Cultivation to 1 hour just like Hyper stones0 -
You dont have to make everyone evenly geared by the way. You can also incorporate a ladder system. Just a common system like many games do. Based on the same principle as ELO rating.
That way you will be fighting oponents your own strength but the incentive to gear up (this incentive is obviously very important for PWI marketing) is still there if you want to rise on the ladder.Everything i write is from PvE perspective unless mentioned otherwise.0 -
WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »You can also incorporate a ladder system. Just a common system like many games do. Based on the same principle as ELO rating.
That way you will be fighting oponents your own strength but the incentive to gear up (this incentive is obviously very important for PWI marketing) is still there if you want to rise on the ladder.
I guess I agree with this. It makes sense, but I'm not able to form an opinion just yet about the ELO distribution lolNotice: Any game is better than PWI atm, so give PWI a break and go try other MMOs! Do it...
PM me if you want more information about the best MMOs (Warning: biased opinion upon trial)0
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