Returning to the Game

muffler123

Hello hello guyss hope you are all doing great! I used to play PWI alot as a wizard but i quited few years ago. Now i think of coming back but from what i read in forum wizards are pretty dead now because of the new update. I i loooved i mean i really looved being a wizard so i was thinking of making another wizard as a new start (since ive deleted all of my chars before i quit) But now i am very confused..I was always a PvE player literally never PvPed before. So does the new update affect the way we PvE alot in negatively? Or mostly does it have an affect in PvP? And did our damage really nerfed that much? Because if not i really want to make a wizard again because otherwise i feel like i betray lol.. Btw i like ranged classes so i think of making veno or cleric as an alternative choices. (didnt really liked mytics and pys) Soo i would really appreciate if you answer/give your suggestions and opinions. Thank you already! Have an uper duper super day b:pleased

Shadowvzss - Harshlands

muffler123 wrote: »

Hello hello guyss hope you are all doing great! I used to play PWI alot as a wizard but i quited few years ago. Now i think of coming back but from what i read in forum wizards are pretty dead now because of the new update. I i loooved i mean i really looved being a wizard so i was thinking of making another wizard as a new start (since ive deleted all of my chars before i quit) But now i am very confused..I was always a PvE player literally never PvPed before. So does the new update affect the way we PvE alot in negatively? Or mostly does it have an affect in PvP? And did our damage really nerfed that much? Because if not i really want to make a wizard again because otherwise i feel like i betray lol.. Btw i like ranged classes so i think of making veno or cleric as an alternative choices. (didnt really liked mytics and pys) Soo i would really appreciate if you answer/give your suggestions and opinions. Thank you already! Have an uper duper super day b:pleased

welcome back

mosly in PvP, in PvE alot less effective the nerf, other side cleric alot better dd now than was before if u want roll cleric

if u do only and really only pve i think wizzard is still same than was before (every class got nice stuff, wizz for pve got 2, mainly 1 skill, the water shield primal skill for able 3rd spark more time)

muffler123

Thaaank you very much for both your welcoming and great advice. I have to say that you literally made my day by saying this!! Then ill roll into wizz again and by the time i level her ill start veno and cleric.. Again ty very much i really appreciate it have a great day! ps:Sorry for the late answer i couldnt log in because of my exams

XXHotXx - Morai

mid-game wiz is not that bad...

@ endgame we are just the shadow of what wizards were back in time...

all depends on your game attitude, pvp oriented? pve oriented? nws? tws?
your gear goals? r9? g16? r8r?

if you are planning to not reach endgame, go for it

muffler123

Well i can say i literally only PvE in the game, tbh i still have a hope for wizards i mean they have always said like uh oh u are so squishy, there are no wizards in the servers, wizards are sooo dead class, you are this bad that bad blah blah blah even back in 2009 (ive started in 09 but its shown as 2010 idk why) But now i do think we are like that.. But you know what if they did us this in one update they can do vice-verse in another.
So dont lose ur faith fellow wizzy friend this is my 3rd wizz, not that i failed but i always deleted my chars when i quited and now again i made a wizzy again because i love what i do, and ill always will.. Sooo good luck us with our veterans

Mayfly - Dreamweaver

2009 is when you joined the game. Feb 2010 is when you signed up on the forum.

muffler123

Ah now it makes sense ty!:D

RSully - Heavens Tear

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

mid-game wiz is not that bad...

@ endgame we are just the shadow of what wizards were back in time...

all depends on your game attitude, pvp oriented? pve oriented? nws? tws?
your gear goals? r9? g16? r8r?

if you are planning to not reach endgame, go for it

While I agree that the current state of affairs are crappy, that doesn't necessarily mean they wouldn't enjoy playing Wizard, endgame or not.

By the time they make a true endgame build wizard we could well be into another expansion, one that perhaps will bring the wizard back into a competitive position . Besides, you can't assume that being OP and roflstomping everyone around them in PvP is their ultimate objective. We Wizards are more than just red numbers over our enemies' heads.

XXHotXx - Morai

RSully - Heavens Tear wrote: »

While I agree that the current state of affairs are crappy, that doesn't necessarily mean they wouldn't enjoy playing Wizard, endgame or not.

By the time they make a true endgame build wizard we could well be into another expansion, one that perhaps will bring the wizard back into a competitive position . Besides, you can't assume that being OP and roflstomping everyone around them in PvP is their ultimate objective. We Wizards are more than just red numbers over our enemies' heads.

yea well they can surelly enjoy pve wizards ( pve wizard enjoyable? no sustain, no dps ?!?!)

but if they want one day to compete pvp-wise they will have to consider that at very endgame we will undine-hit for 2k-4k and your target will most likely have 20k+ hps

RSully - Heavens Tear

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

yea well they can surelly enjoy pve wizards ( pve wizard enjoyable? no sustain, no dps ?!?!)

but if they want one day to compete pvp-wise they will have to consider that at very endgame we will undine-hit for 2k-4k and your target will most likely have 20k+ hps

You're right, as it currently stands, but there's still more evolution for the Wizard I believe. Plus you get mad respect from people when you play endgame wiz, because you are a rarity.

XXHotXx - Morai

RSully - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You're right, as it currently stands, but there's still more evolution for the Wizard I believe. Plus you get mad respect from people when you play endgame wiz, because you are a rarity.

well i believe there's still more "involution" for the wizard instead,

since next patch will take defense passives to lvl 10 and to 80% more res, therefore making debuffs utterly useless and wizard class unfortunately can just rely on debuffs to land damage

Xxxpicklexxx - Heavens Tear

yeah, its not so much that they nerfed our power, its that they beefed everyone else up so much, it made us ineffective.
If you read the description on the PWI web page about the different classes, it actually still says that wizzies are the hardest hitting class, and to this i say....LOOOOOOOOOOOOOL.
I believe this was written way back in 2008-2009, as this was the case back then. Since then however, go check the damage rankings, when is the last time you ever saw a wizzie at the number 1 spot by the end of the week? Pretty much every class can out damage us there now.
I think we would have a case for false advertising against PWi for their wording about classes...

RSully - Heavens Tear

Xxxpicklexxx - Heavens Tear wrote: »

yeah, its not so much that they nerfed our power, its that they beefed everyone else up so much, it made us ineffective.
If you read the description on the PWI web page about the different classes, it actually still says that wizzies are the hardest hitting class, and to this i say....LOOOOOOOOOOOOOL.
I believe this was written way back in 2008-2009, as this was the case back then. Since then however, go check the damage rankings, when is the last time you ever saw a wizzie at the number 1 spot by the end of the week? Pretty much every class can out damage us there now.
I think we would have a case for false advertising against PWi for their wording about classes...

I've seen extremely high damage rankings by wizards, but I catch your drift about no. 1 damage. If we were all equally geared and end game I could see this being a bigger problem. But as it stands right now, I can't say I'm getting any less kills since NH patch in NW, and I"m only r8r +7with +10 S3 weap. If r9rr continues to explode in popularity, I'm sure this problem we see will get worse. However, being on a slightly less competitive (PvP wise) PvE server I may not be seeing as drastic the effects.

For me, I've realized that not everyone has the ambition of going full end game, on any toon, and thus I can still spark them and kill at will. I just know that with every expansion something stupid happens to our class and everyone rages, but we've never been truly outclassed, we've just had to get smarter.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

Really on the defensive side of things, wizards benefited just as much as any other class did with the new passives, hell there is even an passive that further renders aps ineffective, and that is the passive that will increase >skill< damage. (Both of which transfer into pvp)

I absolutely feel that a wizard is very much so a very viable option for pve reasons.

XXHotXx - Morai

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Really on the defensive side of things, wizards benefited just as much as any other class did with the new passives, hell there is even an passive that further renders aps ineffective, and that is the passive that will increase >skill< damage. (Both of which transfer into pvp)

I absolutely feel that a wizard is very much so a very viable option for pve reasons.

thats a common misbelief
wizard is probably the class that benefited the worse from def passives since we already had both high values of p res and ele res
def passives just added few more 2-3% of damage reduction

while classes like archers or sins that used to sit on values between 8k and 10k passed from 65ish% damage redux, to 15k-18k value that is 80ish% damage reduction (they are getting almost half of the damage they were getting before)

even more ridicolous is the elemental res therefore elemental damage reduction increase for the HAs

wizards overall is really the class that benefited the worst and besides that passives hard nerfed our damage

consider the fact that now we have the lowest base magic damage value, and that base magic damage value greatly overexceeds the damage added by skills

yea we got fvcked there is really nothing you can bring as a counter-argument

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

thats a common misbelief
wizard is probably the class that benefited the worse from def passives since we already had both high values of p res and ele res
def passives just added few more 2-3% of damage reduction

while classes like archers or sins that used to sit on values between 8k and 10k passed from 65ish% damage redux, to 15k-18k value that is 80ish% damage reduction (they are getting almost half of the damage they were getting before)

even more ridicolous is the elemental res therefore elemental damage reduction increase for the HAs

wizards overall is really the class that benefited the worst and besides that passives hard nerfed our damage

consider the fact that now we have the lowest base magic damage value, and that base magic damage value greatly overexceeds the damage added by skills

yea we got fvcked there is really nothing you can bring as a counter-argument

Absolutely disagree that you wizards got the complete worse of the passives... melees are effected by it just as much as you are, if not more especially with the anti aps buff on bosses these days.

Your physical/elemental resistance got a boost just as much as ours did. Its not like you casters have instantly become one shottable to every melee out there... especially wizards.

Its not even like your damage wasn't increased by the attack passive, and loads more of magic points your able to put into your stats. I seriously wouldn't be >surprised< that when everything's maxed out, and your still fighting undergeared people all day your probably still pwning them into the ground every which way. (Obviously that 'wouldn't be surprised' is key here... could easily be wrong.)

Really a wizards 'attack' ability wasn't the only one that was effected by the passives, and I absolutely feel its debatable which one was actually effected the 'most.'

I so have no intention of arguing with you about any of this, I focused strictly on pve in my previous post in this thread... wizards are still a very viable option, and quite the powerhouse still in pve... I really don't want to discuss anything about pvp.

Shadowvzss - Harshlands

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Absolutely disagree that you wizards got the complete worse of the passives... melees are effected by it just as much as you are, if not more especially with the anti aps buff on bosses these days.

Your physical/elemental resistance got a boost just as much as ours did. Its not like you casters have instantly become one shottable to every melee out there... especially wizards.

Its not even like your damage wasn't increased by the attack passive, and loads more of magic points your able to put into your stats. I seriously wouldn't be >surprised< that when everything's maxed out, and your still fighting undergeared people all day your probably still pwning them into the ground every which way. (Obviously that 'wouldn't be surprised' is key here... could easily be wrong.)

Really a wizards 'attack' ability wasn't the only one that was effected by the passives, and I absolutely feel its debatable which one was actually effected the 'most.'

I so have no intention of arguing with you about any of this, I focused strictly on pve in my previous post in this thread... wizards are still a very viable option, and quite the powerhouse still in pve... I really don't want to discuss anything about pvp.

nice no sense....

bm isnt have better advantage now when with marrow the lacking def side became fixed a bit with passive, its mena if u use marrow what lower ele or pdef then now ur lowered defence alot higher? and this u compare with loss pdef advantage on wizz? gg

btw u say anti aps boss, wtf? a aps char is few sec a nirvy boss, go with caster, how longer than with aps toon? not even compareable how faster the farm with aps compared with caster, idk what u talk about few anti aps boss, since i know not even half not antiaps and even anti aps ur dmg isnt lower into hell because skills boost also this all only pve perspective where aps melees was obviously op/breaker lol

only note u talk about alot more stat can add to mag, yes this true, this way how our debuff killed even more vs casters because 400mag=48% mdef also, so with primal 80% and same udine strike the wizzard debuff became piece of trash

btw i doubt in this game everything u can make in pve, mainly if u going to get r9 3rd and after that maybe boring.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

Shadowvzss - Harshlands wrote: »

nice no sense....

bm isnt have better advantage now when with marrow the lacking def side became fixed a bit with passive, its mena if u use marrow what lower ele or pdef then now ur lowered defence alot higher? and this u compare with loss pdef advantage on wizz? gg

btw u say anti aps boss, wtf? a aps char is few sec a nirvy boss, go with caster, how longer than with aps toon? not even compareable how faster the farm with aps compared with caster, idk what u talk about few anti aps boss, since i know not even half not antiaps and even anti aps ur dmg isnt lower into hell because skills boost also this all only pve perspective where aps melees was obviously op/breaker lol

My apologies on the part you bolded, it so didn't come out anywhere near what I wanted it too... got to thinking about two different points there, and tried to make the same point into one.

What I meant was more along the lines of this:

I was thinking more about the attack passive when I said that, a wizards skill damage has always been far superior to that of any melee... with the significant and very notable exception... elimination... still that is slightly besides the point I am trying to make. Even though we all got the boost from the skill damage passive, due to the fact that you all get it too, and have always hit harder than melees... and since the passive remains the same for every class, you all still end up doing more damage on bosses that have that anti aps buff on them. (I am so not saying that the aps phase should come back, but really with that passive you all still do more damage than melees do.) ... ERGO... I absolutely feel that a wizard is still a very decent, and viable option for pve.

The defense passive works in a similar albeit in several different ways.

--

While it is true all classes have also had their damage boosted by the attack passive, and the defense passive did indeed boost their defense even more so. I still do diddly squat to endgame casters. Yes... I was using axes/my skills long before the update, the defense passive did help you all, just as much as it helped melees.

You aren't wrong about the marrows, but really it is still quite unfathomably easy to still kill bm's.

Eoria - Harshlands

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I still do diddly squat to endgame casters.

You're undergeared. That's why.

FaceRolI - Sanctuary

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

stuff

^ this cannot be the real Silvaf. He has written a post w/o the word "range" b:thanks

who cares about pve anyways? farming 100's of fsp coins/hour is not important.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

FaceRolI - Sanctuary wrote: »

^ this cannot be the real Silvaf. He has written a post w/o the word "range" b:thanks

who cares about pve anyways? farming 100's of fsp coins/hour is not important.

There have been plenty of posts I have not mentioned the evil 5 letter word in.

I know you may have gotten your hopes up, but I assure you there has only ever been one person who has ever had access to my gaming accounts, and that is me, when I quit the character 'dies' with me.

Hell I am sure the mods can see its the same person, I am not sure which mods are capable of this... but generally even the 'lowly' forum mods are capable of seeing the ip address of a poster... wouldn't be surprised if a few of them are watching it. (Obviously this isn't a sure fire way to make sure I am one and the same, but if the ip address is continuously changing I am sure some red flags would arise.)

--

As for the pve part, that is essentially what the original poster was curious about, if wizards were a viable class to play in pve.

Although this doesn't prove whether a class is dead or not, I did notice in the recent tiger event on Dreamweaver there were 20 wizards who were qualified for the reward, 9 bms, 10 barbs, 8 venos... didn't have time to check the other classes... still I did find that be quite interesting/though I am not too surprised seeing how much easier it is in that event being a ranged character. (OemGee I said it *puts on safety helm for end of the world* b:avoid)


@Eoria: Yea I am undergeared, and I realize full well I shouldn't be killing endgame casters, and I should also be dying to them with a relative amount of ease... I would like to add more to that, but I will refrain... I would just be reiterating what I have said in other threads in the past... and I really do not wish to get into a discussion again about bms/undergeared play.

FaceRolI - Sanctuary

^ look another post w/o the word range.

undoubtedly not Silvaf. b:chuckle

I already posted PvE Video showing Wizard has insanely high damage out put potential, but you need the right debuffs/decent gear at least (or 2 wizards :O). Damage is pretty much the only thing that a wizard brings to a squad, damage is fairly easy to replace but who cares? If you have bad gear then you won't bring much to the squad at all but its pve... thats fine.

Eoria - Harshlands

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Although this doesn't prove whether a class is dead or not, I did notice in the recent tiger event on Dreamweaver there were 20 wizards who were qualified for the reward, 9 bms, 10 barbs, 8 venos... didn't have time to check the other classes... still I did find that be quite interesting/though I am not too surprised seeing how much easier it is in that event being a ranged character.

This is just class distribution on your server. On mine, clerics/sins/BMs/archers are always full of people while mages/mystics rarely have more than 5-7 or so.

XXHotXx - Morai

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Absolutely disagree that you wizards got the complete worse of the passives... melees are effected by it just as much as you are, if not more especially with the anti aps buff on bosses these days.

Your physical/elemental resistance got a boost just as much as ours did. Its not like you casters have instantly become one shottable to every melee out there... especially wizards.

Its not even like your damage wasn't increased by the attack passive, and loads more of magic points your able to put into your stats. I seriously wouldn't be >surprised< that when everything's maxed out, and your still fighting undergeared people all day your probably still pwning them into the ground every which way. (Obviously that 'wouldn't be surprised' is key here... could easily be wrong.)

Really a wizards 'attack' ability wasn't the only one that was effected by the passives, and I absolutely feel its debatable which one was actually effected the 'most.'

I so have no intention of arguing with you about any of this, I focused strictly on pve in my previous post in this thread... wizards are still a very viable option, and quite the powerhouse still in pve... I really don't want to discuss anything about pvp.

man all the other classes got the same damage buff, the same bonus stats but we have the lowest base magic damage

we didnt get the same boost as you did, cause you should check how damage reduction scale in proportion to resistances value...

also wizard the powerhouse in pve? >< since when lol no dps, no bloodpaint or heals its just soul shatter, that's not a wizard feature doe

Shadowvzss - Harshlands

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

.............

u talk about pve stuff where is bm/sin is in top farmer except 2 instance where they only decent unlike casters when they in few place very good maybe and rest decent
dont even talk about aoeing where alot better advantage on bm and seeker etc with bp+alot more pdef what grant them more survivebility than caster with better gear...

Originally Posted by Slivaf - Dreamweaver View Post
I still do diddly squat to endgame casters.

pvp
if u know ur class then u can be far better than caster in surviveing most of situation (excpet maybe white voodoo psy)...
u could say range etc but wtf bm got arsenal of stun etc, 2 run skill and 1 immune skill, genie holy path, occult ice..... evverybody use genie for damage or kite then why not bm can't?

As for the pve part, that is essentially what the original poster was curious about, if wizards were a viable class to play in pve.

i guess he was curios to both even he felt closer the pve, generally i am sure he was curios mostly "what changed while i dont played"

still I did find that be quite interesting/though I am not too surprised seeing how much easier it is in that event being a ranged character

arhcer won there in minion part and caster rocks in physical immune boss part, thats why much wizz/mystic/veno there, and from all of them wizzard the only who feel in tiger event is usefull for something, another side it is strongly server depend, on my server few time most of participant is at sins because they get easily point from normal boss if they apsing

I really do not wish to get into a discussion again about bms/undergeared play.

but somehow allways that the discusion ending, even u not realise maybe u would change ur tactic or accept in group gank allways the weaker die first, weaker allways we undergeared or spirited than others because even a weaker can make alot headache (hf, aoe stun arsenal of stuns etc)

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

man all the other classes got the same damage buff, the same bonus stats but we have the lowest base magic damage

we didnt get the same boost as you did, cause you should check how damage reduction scale in proportion to resistances value...

also wizard the powerhouse in pve? >< since when lol no dps, no bloodpaint or heals its just soul shatter, that's not a wizard feature doe

I didn't say they were the strongest powerhouse/it was 'easy' for them to dish out insane amounts of damage, but they can still easily out >DD< other classes, obviously not all classes, but they can still do a real decent amount of damage.

Really the passives did help you all as much if not more than melees (melees damage even with skills has always been an very small fraction of that of a caster, and despite the boost from passives, casters are still hitting ridiculously hard, though obviously not as hard as before, but still real hard. ) >For the record this is meant for both pve and pvp.< (though yes its true the defense passives have really reduced the damage done to each other regardless of which 'side' you are on)

Ergo I repeat wizards are still quite the powerhouse, and a very viable option in pve, especially with what instances are alive these days, granted they wont be dishing out the most damage, they can still out DD others with ease... PVE wise.

--

@Shadow

You mentioned nirvy of all places... you could have mentioned... you mentioned a dead place? I mean come on list a place that is actually still TRULY alive that does NOT have a boss with the anti aps feature on it. I think you would be hard press to find it, yes there are a few bosses that do not have that buff on them. (No... no way in hell I want that phase of the game to come back)

Still any class that was already using skills, and has a maxed out skill boost passive, is going to be dealing more damage than bm's for the MOST part, yes bms can get a badass hit that passes some of the other DD's, but that is ridiculously hard for them to do, in other words it is NOT consistent.

As for the range bit, please bms's are a stupid easy fodder for the amount of casters/oped ranged people running around. Yes bm's have their plethora of stuns, but they do NOT have a consistent ability to close the distance, while still maintaining chi to actually stun... its not like they come freely/easy. Bm's are still quite difficult to play and enjoy in NW even after the NH update, though aye there is no denying that the passives have helped, as has the new skill dragon rising, both of which make playing a bm loads more... interesting, than all the constant deaths, while being/feeling useless before the NH update.

I also am more than aware that the pvp part keeps coming up, we are all dancing around it, and I really am trying to avoid discussing very much about it at all. Ergo the vague mentions of anything when it comes to a pvp aspect of the game.

--

One more thing, I absolutely hear you all on the 'feeling useless' bit, but that doesn't change my opinion about wizards still being a decent class to play still in >pve.<

WannaBM - Archosaur

Oh its him.

I still see the frustration in his posts. That feeling that other classes have an advantage over him. b:pleased

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

Oh its him.

I still see the frustration in his posts. That feeling that other classes have an advantage over him. b:pleased

They essentially do, albeit I'll grant you its easily debatable just how much of an advantage that is. xD

Shadowvzss - Harshlands

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You mentioned nirvy of all places... you could have mentioned... you mentioned a dead place? I mean come on list a place that is actually still TRULY alive that does NOT have a boss with the anti aps feature on it. I think you would be hard press to find it, yes there are a few bosses that do not have that buff on them. (No... no way in hell I want that phase of the game to come back)

we play same game?
exclude card boss/frostsilver and fb99 boss, what u doing daily and got anti aps?

well pv, fc, tt, lunar, nirvy, ws, cultivation boss all useless place, everybody when start this game get r9 instantly and dont need to level and farm.....

yes u have totally right /sarcasm

please bms's are a stupid easy fodder

if the bm stupid too

about wizards still being a decent class

decent between casters that right, vs BM not decent rofl

Ergo I repeat wizards are still quite the powerhouse, and a very viable option in pve, especially with what instances are alive these days

sure, i create lv1 wizzard and doing only frost silver everyday, i dont really need anything else in this game and that soloable at lv1
farming coin? why need that? lets only farm frost silver whole day because that the current day only important thing in this game b:laugh

i love how u talk about bm how was weak before nw...
i seriously doubt u roled another class vs overgeared enemy...
if yes then u forgot the experience with it lol

Eoria - Harshlands

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

They essentially do, albeit I'll grant you its easily debatable just how much of an advantage that is. xD

It is completely and 100% a gear disadvantage on your part.

g16 Nirvana is a very very big difference from r9rr and acting like BMs suck when you're trying to compare your g16 Nirvana gear to end-game r9rr casters is dumb.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

You are absolutely wrong about me not playing other chars while undergeared and against overpowered people. Obviously they died, but they also had FAR more chances of doing things even while being undergeared than bm's, and it really is still true today, except for the new dragon rising, but if you think that skill is ridiculously overpowered you are sorely mistaken, obviously it IS a real nice skill, but it can be quite limited in how much it runs amok.

Your little comment about the bm being stupid is just plain... for the lack of a MUCH better word idiotic. a bm while undergeared without using charm and apo (NOT saying others don't use them, but they do have an option to do without!... as do bms but still being 'forced' to use both to really get a taste of what a class can do... is just plain sickening to many bms.) is ridicolously easy fodder for many people. They haven't ever truly scared me away from trying to attack and defend a land, to be fair the same goes for barbs, but as for all the other classes they can and have... made me... wary/'give' up on trying to defend a land. Though to be fair thanks to the new dragon rising, I feel a lot more useful than I did before the NH update.

Contrary to what you and Eoria seem to want to believe, I am fully aware that other classes die whether they are undergeared or not, it has been stated time and time again that bm's are the hardest class to play in mass pvp, to some that translated to an insane weakness.


Shadow you said that it keeps getting brought up, and yet you wont let it drop. (I know I am partly to blame for it, but you are at just as much fault as I am. {edit: to ba fair its debatable who is at more of fault.} )

Either way regardless of whose to blame more: I am not going to reply to this thread anymore... it has gotten way too off topic, this started out to be about wizards, and it was dragged into a stupid conversation about bms.