Barb's ~ BM's New Stun Paralyze and Purge weapons .

Ulquiorraa__ - Raging Tide

Hello,

I'd like to point out few things which are kinda broken in the game atm and need fixing asap .

The barb and bm new stuns paralyze, 3 sec for bms 55% chance, 4 sec for barbs 50% chance , cd for each is 6 sec only, After playing against those classes, and noticing how broken that can be and spammable .
If u say 50% that means a barb/bm is able to stun u every 12 sec for 3-4 sec 100% , which means those classes got a big ability to CC anyone with tidal or without, with movement immune or without .
Which is so unfair , nobody deserve such kind of stun spammed on them every 12 sec 3-4 sec under stun .

Point 2 ~ the Purge weapons for a barb~bm , talking about a class at end game gear wise, which can have 45K-50K hp josd barb and around 28-30K base hp ~ the BMs with a very high def due to primal skills and high hp , can just run around with that purge weapons which procs 10-20% , and can even spam celestial swords to purge anyone , a class with this high survivability with a purge weapon is so dangerous on game play ,
While all other classes AA, cant purge (ofc there is a genie skill with low % to purge not counted ) , sins archers are LA and once those HA classes purge them they become squishy while that HA class is STILL SO TANKY .
In other words, those purge weapons should be removed from Game, and with them should be removed the Spirit of Defense apoth pots that buffs us with cleric bm barb buffs for 1 hour .
I'm sure most pvp ppl notice how tanky can someone become keep spamming buffing with those buffs for pvp , while a tanky class doesn't really need them and is able to purge .
+ sins can also lose the purge bow too .

U can make a way for those pots to run off someone once they enter any PvP battle anytime any place, so in other words, they can be still used to PvE which maybe many ppl need them for .

And for archer's Purge bow , it can be fixed in some way , no one deserve losing buffs while archer doesn't lose buffs and being a josd end game gear he is able to tank with all those kiting abilities and immune skills , so in other words I don't want the purge to be gone from archer , I would suggest a good idea to deal with it , which is to make The r9rr archer Bow able to make u temporary unbuffed in a certain way that ur buffs come back after around 30 sec for example . or u get a buff that makes u at ur base def for certain amount of time "limited " .

There is 1 more last thing Cleric's Plume shell ... now Seriously someone with a Buff that can makes them God like vs any phy dmg for 20 sec , EVERY 30 sec able to rebuff , is FAIR and for Example sageTidal isn't fair ? Plume shouldn't be that OP that's just too much , Just an End Game any class go fight a cleric end game with josd +12 S cards, and Notice wht's going on ... U are fighting a class that rebuff plume after eevry 30 sec, and in that ONLY 10 sec GAP that exists u are under a big chance that u proc their purify weapon buff , which makes them run and kite u and u can never Kill , Then If it happened and u didn't tick that purify they can just EXPEL ... now seriously why does a class can be a God like fully buffed unkillable without a very big great luck so their purify proc doesn't proc and after u made them waste the genie all energy and that takes a very llong time and planning and in mass pk is NOT possible .or in 1 vs 2 -3 not possible ~ push it to The max limit how much u can be skilled more than ur opponents .

that's all and with all the Hope that our nice fun game becomes more fun and Fair . Thanks .

Unknown

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Joe - Morai

Ulquiorraa__ - Raging Tide wrote: »

Hello,

I'd like to point out few things which are kinda broken in the game atm and need fixing asap .

No they don't. Learn to play.

And before anyone starts that: "Oh, You're a barb, ofc you like the new skills"-****.

You get a barb, I got another random class. I win. It's all about skill.

+ Do we really need another one of these threads now? ._.

Ah BTW (Edit): Anyone scared of being purged if a nub (ya each and everyone one that is!)

PvP needs to be a challenge. It need to be hard for each class and excuse me, each and every class got amazing skills. Propblem is that you would need basic understandin of this game being able to use them properly.

No one needs buffs now that we have the passives. The only ones that are bragging about being unbuffed/purged are those wussies that always hide behind their buffs and fall apart in seconds when being unbuffed. Why it is like that? Because the majority of the playerbase (especially overgeared cs-nubs) dont know how to play properly. Some know how to attack someone effectivly...and how many of those know how to defend themselves?

Instead of blaming the game over and over and over and over and over again start working on YOUR issues and enhance yourself. I bet the majority wouldn't even try to improve theirselves.

Stop being such wussies and then, maybe then, anyone can take you seriously.

Unknown

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XXHotXx - Morai

sontzu wrote: »

Same old story, different names.

2010 --> omg sins are so op and broken

2011 --> omg seekers are so op and broken

2012 --> omg r9r3 is so op and broken

2013 --> omg casters wep with puri is so op and broken

2014 --> omg this qqing is so annoying and repetitive

Life is a wheel; sometimes you are at the top, and sometimes you are at the bottom being squished into the mud. The secret of survival is to stop qqing and wait for the wheel (to turn)

purify has never been broken as sage tida or mighty swing

as pointed out in other threads check which things have less to no counters and you ll find out the overpowered things

purify had plenty of counters, purge seal gap closers such tele\telestuns reel transposition reversion etch i dont recall all the counters

tidal has no counters
mighty swing has IG as counter (not really a counter since IG cd is 2 mins and mighty swing cd is 5 seconds)

Ulquiorraa__ - Raging Tide

sry guys i click Confirm before I was done with the thread by mistake . The real Thread is there now u can read all I want to say here .

trands

Purge weapon on non-archer classes are not an issue. Only archers combine damage (r9.3) and biggest range with purge. From any other class that will be tankier then archers, the purge is not followed up by big damage as they will have to change weapons. Because they don't have the range or the damage, I don't see any issue in them having purge proc.

The paralyze I do consider to OP, there is already a major thread on that point. But that some tanky classes have access to lower-tier weapons with purge proc on it doesn't pose me any issues. Maybe you mean fully buffed 1vs1, which is silly to start with...

Euthymius - Heavens Tear

Paralyze: Yes, thats broken because there's no way to resist/break it outside of immunity, and Barbs get a guaranteed, abusable control effect without any significant cost. If it could ignore Purify but still be countered by regular anti-stuns then it wouldn't be so stupid. We've been over that song and dance a number of times already.

Purge: No, there's nothing wrong with Purge weapons. Killing those at the upper tiers of endgame is difficult enough as is without purging their buffs. If you're not an Archer (who's pretty much reliant on getting off one and capitalizing on it @ endgame), then as trands said, you're using a weaker weapon for a chance at that benefit, giving your opponent some time to do something about it (luck depending)

Zanryu - Lothranis

A sin complaining about game mechanics. Point at him, point at him and laugh!

Desdi - Sanctuary

Euthymius - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Paralyze: Yes, thats broken because there's no way to resist/break it outside of immunity, and Barbs get a guaranteed, abusable control effect without any significant cost. If it could ignore Purify but still be countered by regular anti-stuns then it wouldn't be so stupid. We've been over that song and dance a number of times already.

Purge: No, there's nothing wrong with Purge weapons. Killing those at the upper tiers of endgame is difficult enough as is without purging their buffs. If you're not an Archer (who's pretty much reliant on getting off one and capitalizing on it @ endgame), then as trands said, you're using a weaker weapon for a chance at that benefit, giving your opponent some time to do something about it (luck depending)

+1 to this.

Ulquiorraa__ - Raging Tide

Euthymius - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Paralyze: Yes, thats broken because there's no way to resist/break it outside of immunity, and Barbs get a guaranteed, abusable control effect without any significant cost. If it could ignore Purify but still be countered by regular anti-stuns then it wouldn't be so stupid. We've been over that song and dance a number of times already.

Purge: No, there's nothing wrong with Purge weapons. Killing those at the upper tiers of endgame is difficult enough as is without purging their buffs. If you're not an Archer (who's pretty much reliant on getting off one and capitalizing on it @ endgame), then as trands said, you're using a weaker weapon for a chance at that benefit, giving your opponent some time to do something about it (luck depending)

Well, I've combained my idea about removing purge with other thing removing the buff pot, which will prevent abusing buffs , Which will make ppl unable to purge without an archer or a veno ,which would make PvP back to its old fun rainbow classes in pk needed to have the fight more interesting ... I personaly prefer having the Spirit of def available but I don't want it if its making ppl unbeatable due to ability to abuse/save time rebuffing in or out of the PvP place (some classes can't purge others can , And we do notice some classes Can tank enough to purge like barb and bm ~others NOT ) , I'll have to count on a cleric to buff me always and other classes STILL i dont care . I prefer a cleric which is a Monster broken bully plumeshell/expel/purify proc abuse all time to be not invincible dew to ability to rebuff full buffs everytime they get purged .

So u are saying a barb/BM ( which have most high HP pool /high phy def) , in end game gear can have the ability to rebuff back them self can have a purge weapon and be able to do 1 vs 3 , while I can't always do it succesfuly ,due to PURGE allowed to them >_> this is not fair .some nab josd barb runs with purge weapon to solve the problem of beating someone so skilled making them lose their buff , just bullshiit to help them win I don't agree on letting this happen .there is many skilled ppl who were able to kill 1 vs 1 fully buffed worse tough classes .
We all do agree class differences in skills is a must , we can't have all classes same skills, we do find it fine and ok that a class can have high HP , and another low, and each have its characteristics, But that doesn't mean they can have the uper hand in a certain type of fights due to purge combained with very high def/HP ..... And another class CAN NOT DO SAME .

plusonepostcount

thats funny coming from a sin (forum acc avatar) Your opinion is now useless and void of any substance or validity. Neither of the skills are as broken as people make them out to be. You have to think things like the barbs stun are op skills because they aren't op classes in any other way. They have to close gaps between ranged classes and can't keep up with pretty much any other class in damage at endgame in equal gear hell mystics can probably spam the noob skills they start with at lvl1 lvld to sage/demon and keep up with barbs at end game.

Ulquiorraa__ - Raging Tide

plusonepostcount wrote: »

thats funny coming from a sin (forum acc avatar) Your opinion is now useless and void of any substance or validity. Neither of the skills are as broken as people make them out to be. You have to think things like the barbs stun are op skills because they aren't op classes in any other way. They have to close gaps between ranged classes and can't keep up with pretty much any other class in damage at endgame in equal gear hell mystics can probably spam the noob skills they start with at lvl1 lvld to sage/demon and keep up with barbs at end game.

1st about PPL that keep saying sins >THE ONLY AND MOST BROKEN CLASS< I've got bored 2 years ago from ppl QQing about sins , till I made my self r9rr psy +12 and fought many classes and personaly could win many fights end game gear and ppl with big experience , while i just played around 6 months .
Talking about stun being broken doesn't mean those classes shouldn't get a stun skill to help them for the reasons u said . But that doesn't mean spammable/very low cd , and can break through anything .

Joe - Morai

It doesnt matter who says anything Balance related these days. It's always the same. It doesnt matter which class they are. OP might be a sin, and?

On a personal experience. My r8r Purge weapon purges every 1k hits (seriously). My Clean Sweep is far more reliable then the advanced purge (might be my luck tho).

But nvm that. One direct question to anyone participating in this thread. What could be balanced in this game that you couldnt balance with better playability for yourself? Seriously. You ppl act like you are instantly dead when you get paralyzed/purged.

Honestly, I could post at least one skill of each class that is as much as OP as Paralyze/Purge (if you use it the right way) is but is it my duty to actually teach you guys how to friggin play?! no. Go check it out for yourself.

If you guys really wanna have equal and balanced PvP then I suggest you all follow the same ruling. No one uses buffs that increase defense/HP in any ways. Not even their own. Wouldn't that be fun b:chuckle

Euthymius - Heavens Tear

Ulquiorraa__ - Raging Tide wrote: »

>Remove buff pills

If someone uses that during combat, that leaves them without their Apoth for two minutes for those able to utilize a Purge weapon/Eruption Fist triggers. While I can agree that its a bit annoying to deal with, they're available to both sides, though obviously they benefit some more than others.

So u are saying a barb/BM ( which have most high HP pool /high phy def) , in end game gear can have the ability to rebuff back them self can have a purge weapon and be able to do 1 vs 3 , while I can't always do it succesfuly

Barbs have Clean Sweep and maybe an R8r purge hammer, meaning they'll have to use either of those and not use skills with secondary effects (in the case of the Purge Hammer). BMs are the same with a Purge Spear/R8r S.Blackhole weapon or whatever else since they don't have an innate purge skill.

There's also Eruption fist, but that would require expending genie energy on pure chance.
Doing that means that they aren't going to be likely to attempt an outright kill till they get the Purge, so what ARE you doing in the meantime while they're fishing for it?

This is not fair .some nab josd barb runs with purge weapon to solve the problem of beating someone so skilled making them lose their buff , just bullshiit to help them win I don't agree on letting this happen .there is many skilled ppl who were able to kill 1 vs 1 fully buffed worse tough classes .

Oh look, a Barb is actually trying to be an important factor in battle. If you're letting that Barb run about in Group PvP to support their allies that way...maybe you should do something about it? If its just 1v1, well....its not like you cant fish for your own Purge with a NV2 Bow/Eruption Fist between your immobilizes and stuns. Oh, and lets not forget that Tidal can passively ignore it.

We all do agree class differences in skills is a must , we can't have all classes same skills, we do find it fine and ok that a class can have high HP , and another low, and each have its characteristics, But that doesn't mean they can have the uper hand in a certain type of fights due to purge combained with very high def/HP ..... And another class CAN NOT DO SAME .

I dont get it. You already admit we all cant have the same skills, which obviously means that some are going to have better traits or features in certain areas than others, yet you're arguing against it for Barbs and BMs, who have to go out of their way for a chance at purging.

7/10 only because of delicious Sin tears

plusonepostcount

Ulquiorraa__ - Raging Tide wrote: »

1st about PPL that keep saying sins >THE ONLY AND MOST BROKEN CLASS< I've got bored 2 years ago from ppl QQing about sins , till I made my self r9rr psy +12 and fought many classes and personaly could win many fights end game gear and ppl with big experience , while i just played around 6 months .
Talking about stun being broken doesn't mean those classes shouldn't get a stun skill to help them for the reasons u said . But that doesn't mean spammable/very low cd , and can break through anything .

First off its not just sins being broken and op its not even necisarrily class more about gear and in different areas. But comparing in game you cannot compare in 1v1's those don't exist in mmos unless your basically dueling someone under a cotrollled circumstance of some sort. But complaining about a barbs 1 of the only 2 control skills they have (which unless they changed anything other than the cd on the stun) isn't even 100% chance to stun. Try playiing a barb with end game gear against equally geared players and see how well you fare off against each of the types of classes before calling them broken cause of one stun skill that got a 1 second shorter cooldown and is now 4 second cd instead of 5.

Madebyvisa - Raging Tide

Ulquiorraa__ - Raging Tide wrote: »

Hello,

I'd like to point out few things which are kinda broken in the game atm and need fixing asap .

The barb and bm new stuns paralyze, 3 sec for bms 55% chance, 4 sec for barbs 50% chance , cd for each is 6 sec only, After playing against those classes, and noticing how broken that can be and spammable .
If u say 50% that means a barb/bm is able to stun u every 12 sec for 3-4 sec 100% , which means those classes got a big ability to CC anyone with tidal or without, with movement immune or without .
Which is so unfair , nobody deserve such kind of stun spammed on them every 12 sec 3-4 sec under stun .

.

okay so im just gonna correct you a lil bit at least cause ugh erry1 else too busy laughin at this from a sin .... paralyze for bm's is 6 / 7,5 seconds depending on sage or demon with the chance if it hits it hits. cd for us is 15 seconds and it also costs a spark for us bm's .. soo there kinda goes ur point about bm's b:surrender

lavianultima

Ulquiorraai think you got your facts wrong, you say every 12 secs a barb can stun you for mighty swing because its 50% chance.
50% chance doesnt mean it will take effect the second time you use it, sometimes it doesnt work.

SerenityCNB - Dreamweaver

Ulquiorraa__ - Raging Tide wrote: »

Hello,

I'd like to point out few things which are kinda broken in the game atm and need fixing asap .

The barb and bm new stuns paralyze, 3 sec for bms 55% chance, 4 sec for barbs 50% chance , cd for each is 6 sec only, After playing against those classes, and noticing how broken that can be and spammable .
If u say 50% that means a barb/bm is able to stun u every 12 sec for 3-4 sec 100% , which means those classes got a big ability to CC anyone with tidal or without, with movement immune or without .
Which is so unfair , nobody deserve such kind of stun spammed on them every 12 sec 3-4 sec under stun .

Point 2 ~ the Purge weapons for a barb~bm , talking about a class at end game gear wise, which can have 45K-50K hp josd barb and around 28-30K base hp ~ the BMs with a very high def due to primal skills and high hp , can just run around with that purge weapons which procs 10-20% , and can even spam celestial swords to purge anyone , a class with this high survivability with a purge weapon is so dangerous on game play ,
While all other classes AA, cant purge (ofc there is a genie skill with low % to purge not counted ) , sins archers are LA and once those HA classes purge them they become squishy while that HA class is STILL SO TANKY .
In other words, those purge weapons should be removed from Game, and with them should be removed the Spirit of Defense apoth pots that buffs us with cleric bm barb buffs for 1 hour .
I'm sure most pvp ppl notice how tanky can someone become keep spamming buffing with those buffs for pvp , while a tanky class doesn't really need them and is able to purge .
+ sins can also lose the purge bow too .

U can make a way for those pots to run off someone once they enter any PvP battle anytime any place, so in other words, they can be still used to PvE which maybe many ppl need them for .

And for archer's Purge bow , it can be fixed in some way , no one deserve losing buffs while archer doesn't lose buffs and being a josd end game gear he is able to tank with all those kiting abilities and immune skills , so in other words I don't want the purge to be gone from archer , I would suggest a good idea to deal with it , which is to make The r9rr archer Bow able to make u temporary unbuffed in a certain way that ur buffs come back after around 30 sec for example . or u get a buff that makes u at ur base def for certain amount of time "limited " .

There is 1 more last thing Cleric's Plume shell ... now Seriously someone with a Buff that can makes them God like vs any phy dmg for 20 sec , EVERY 30 sec able to rebuff , is FAIR and for Example sageTidal isn't fair ? Plume shouldn't be that OP that's just too much , Just an End Game any class go fight a cleric end game with josd +12 S cards, and Notice wht's going on ... U are fighting a class that rebuff plume after eevry 30 sec, and in that ONLY 10 sec GAP that exists u are under a big chance that u proc their purify weapon buff , which makes them run and kite u and u can never Kill , Then If it happened and u didn't tick that purify they can just EXPEL ... now seriously why does a class can be a God like fully buffed unkillable without a very big great luck so their purify proc doesn't proc and after u made them waste the genie all energy and that takes a very llong time and planning and in mass pk is NOT possible .or in 1 vs 2 -3 not possible ~ push it to The max limit how much u can be skilled more than ur opponents .

that's all and with all the Hope that our nice fun game becomes more fun and Fair . Thanks .

I'm not R9 anything, nor +10 anything, nor do I own a purify weapon, but there are still are things that I'm going to comment on...

The barb/bm stun skill: As others have posted, I will agree that its broken, Due to the fact that it can't be resisted by anti-stuns, and is incredibly spammable. Barbs NEEDED a CC skill though, so I'm for them having one. They just need some things to be tweaked to make anti-stun resist it. Bm's definitely didn't need a stun to ignore anti-stun, as they're masters of stunlocks already.

The main thing that I do wish to discuss however, is your comment against plume shell. Firstly, not every cleric has a purify weapon. Many of us do not. Also, Plume shell relies heavily upon our mp. This means that a cleric needs a mp charm just for plume shell to be a reliable factor.

You also speak about clerics being able to use expel on their genies, yet there are genies that can literally nullify a cleric's abilities.

As a sin, you have:

Stealth
Deaden Nerves
Tidal Protection
Seal
Stun
Sleep
Teleport
Teleport Stun
Anti stun skills
2 speed skills
Force stealth
Bloodpaint
A longer range than any caster, and some archers via knife throw and your teleports (35 meter range)
The ability to cancel channeling
High crit rate and immense damage
Insane Chi gaining capabilities.
A amp debuff
Permaspark
The ability to do a near constant purify
The ability to attain a stealth level higher than the stealth detection pots via sage/demon shadow escape
A near constant attack/defense debuff via triple sparking in a permaspark state.
The ability to use any non-attack related skill without breaking stealth
The ability to control when the fight starts by stealthing and observing, giving you the upper hand
-A bleed dot
-The ability to decrease attack rate
-A silence
-The ability to buff your crit rate chance by 40%
Plus the new assassin primal skills, hit outrageously hard.

I'm bringing up these points to show that cleric's aren't god-like. We're not necessarily going to be a free kill, and any class that is R9rr +12 JOSD anything is going to be tough to take down.

Several classes can increase their defense...Psy's, bm's, wizzies, barb's, veno's, seekers, and mystics...not just clerics. Combine these with R9rr +12 JOSD, and it's going to be tough.

However, if you look at the skills that you have...which are optimal for killing, versus a cleric's plume shell, it loses merit. Plus, as a high dex class, you can also equip a purge bow against your targets. In a mass pvp setting, this means that you have a chance of purging that plume shell, and using a vast array of other attacks.

Plume shell is a cleric skill that can allow for increased defense...however stealth is an assassin skill that can allow them to be removed from the battlefield. I'm going to reiterate this...its possible to make a genie that almost completely nullifies a cleric's attacks...both physical and magical.

If you remove plume shell due to an R9rr +12 JOSD, purify weapon cleric using it, what about the G16 +5/+7 cleric whom your attacks cut through like hot butter?

I'm not writing this to criticize you, but rather to show a counter argument to your stated point.

Zanryu - Lothranis wrote: »

A sin complaining about game mechanics. Point at him, point at him and laugh!

Couldn't help but laugh at this post. LOL. b:laugh
+1 (No offense to Ulquiorrea__ intended. LOL.)

Jaabg - Sanctuary

Why the hate on paralyze, us BM finally started getting useful. Before we had stun+hf, that allowed people to one shot squads when it worked right in tw/nw. Than we got BT that ignored def lvls, so it became, BT>(see dead bodies, avoid them, move to living ones) stun, hf, that pretty much ensures everyone dies.

Both those strategies are less effective. So we get a paralyze. Nothing wrong with a 7.5 second paralyze, people didn't complain about drake bash before. Effect is still the same. Sure you could counter drake bash, but could you consistently counter drake bash of bm in nw/tw situation? I know for sure, before we used to have a stun fest on the poor casters. You can use all the books in the trick, but you will fall to a stun lock when there are 2~5 bm on you. Now you only need 1~2 b:laugh.

That being said, I don't complain about the damage that all classes do on me. As someone said some very wise words, just wait for the wheel to turn. Get your primal skills on sin and troll everyone.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

Madebyvisa - Raging Tide wrote: »

okay so im just gonna correct you a lil bit at least cause ugh erry1 else too busy laughin at this from a sin .... paralyze for bm's is 6 / 7,5 seconds depending on sage or demon with the chance if it hits it hits. cd for us is 15 seconds and it also costs a spark for us bm's .. soo there kinda goes ur point about bm's b:surrender

^ ABSOLUTELY that. It makes it really hard to spam, there are plenty of times where a bm can't use their genie/apo for chi to get chi to use the skill.

SerenityCNB - Dreamweaver wrote: »

*snip*

The barb/bm stun skill: As others have posted, I will agree that its broken, Due to the fact that it can't be resisted by anti-stuns, and is incredibly spammable. Barbs NEEDED a CC skill though, so I'm for them having one. They just need some things to be tweaked to make anti-stun resist it. Bm's definitely didn't need a stun to ignore anti-stun, as they're masters of stunlocks already.

*snip*

There is nothing like a spammable proc, albeit there is indeed luck involved... still there is nothing likable about a proc that completely erases everything you do as a 'support' class. The purify proc, was and still arguably is oped. Yes bms have/had the best counters to it, but they were still far too few, especially when you added in more people to try and take down an oped caster class. It is also true not everyone has r93r/let alone full +10-12, but the ones who did ran rampant with it. (Casters would absolutely hate it if we had something similair, where we will have a luck chance to reflect 100% of damage taken, that also gives an anti stun/sleep/immobilization/speed boost.)

Chi has always been an issue for bms, it is no different with this skill, while it is broken that it has no counters to it once its on, the bm can be easy to lock down/kill while they're closing the distance, a bm has to conserve chi, and ALL of their gap closers cost chi, save their first sprint, but without any addition to it, it can be quite easy to stop the bm long before they reach you.

-

My point is this: While bm's do indeed have the most stuns, they also have the hardest time closing gaps whether people like to admit this or not, and they also use the MOST chi out of any class, just about every skill they have costs chi, and purify proc can, has, and still is erasing everything a bm throws on a caster, save this new paralyze skill.

I have said it before I wouldn't mind it if there was a genie skill that could negate the new arguably oped paralyze 'proc', because those aren't anywhere near as spammable/way more skill involved in using one than a pesky *** proc that saves people a stupid ridiculous amount of time.

Joe - Morai

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

^ ABSOLUTELY that. It makes it really hard to spam, there are plenty of times where a bm can't use their genie/apo for chi to get chi to use the skill.



There is nothing like a spammable proc, albeit there is indeed luck involved... still there is nothing likable about a proc that completely erases everything you do as a 'support' class. The purify proc, was and still arguably is oped. Yes bms have/had the best counters to it, but they were still far too few, especially when you added in more people to try and take down an oped caster class. It is also true not everyone has r93r/let alone full +10-12, but the ones who did ran rampant with it. (Casters would absolutely hate it if we had something similair, where we will have a luck chance to reflect 100% of damage taken, that also gives an anti stun/sleep/immobilization/speed boost.)

Chi has always been an issue for bms, it is no different with this skill, while it is broken that it has no counters to it once its on, the bm can be easy to lock down/kill while they're closing the distance, a bm has to conserve chi, and ALL of their gap closers cost chi, save their first sprint, but without any addition to it, it can be quite easy to stop the bm long before they reach you.

-

My point is this: While bm's do indeed have the most stuns, they also have the hardest time closing gaps whether people like to admit this or not, and they also use the MOST chi out of any class, just about every skill they have costs chi, and purify proc can, has, and still is erasing everything a bm throws on a caster, save this new paralyze skill.

I have said it before I wouldn't mind it if there was a genie skill that could negate the new arguably oped paralyze 'proc', because those aren't anywhere near as spammable/way more skill involved in using one than a pesky *** proc that saves people a stupid ridiculous amount of time.

This. Finally someone who does understand this game.

What we would really need is a PvP-Event. Something similiar to other MMORPGs. An Event where everyone's got the same gear, cards, lvl and so on and it only matter which class you pick. No other buffs then your own allowed.

This would give the majority of players the chance to experience balanced and equal PvP-ing and heck that would stop those redicolous QQing threads about balance issues on the spot.

I cant take 99% of the community serious. I cant. They always talk about how OP that skill is, or how OP this skill is...but they put it on completely weired contexts. Whats the situation you've been in while experiencing this OP skill? Whats your gear like and what gear did your Opponent have? Would it have been the same if your gears were equal? Like I said, completely without any context. How on earth can anyone actually argue with persons that dont even have an explenation for their friggin beliefs. I'm actually stupid too because I'm still trying to wake you guys up but I do know that you guys dont even care =P Well I dont care anyways^^

No detailed explenation = better ****.

And if the most of you havn't noticed yet. This game is Pay2Win. That means...if you got better gears then you will most likely win over other ppl cept if they are complete morons and cant play. Thats the major problem. The majority of the community cant play and doesnt even understand how this game rolls and ofc. If there are some skilled ppl that take the max advantage out of something "new" like some casters did with the purify proc, or some heavier geared Full Str (DMG overkill) barbs and BMs with their paralyze stuffs then the game itself isnt broken, neither are the skills. It's those players taking the advantage outta it while you other morons are too busy trying to QQ about how OP that stuff is instead of working on a counter-strategy.

And I know what some of you might think now. Dont stress out it's just a game. I dont wanna put that much effort intoa game, I wanna chill after a hard day of work. True. But then stop this friggin QQing and accept your place in the backrows.

Putting no effort into something always means that you will be left behind on that specific term. I dont even know why I obviously need to explain all that basic sht when the majority of the community is "mature". LOL.

This game is pretty much balanced. Ya unfortunatly that only shows on absolute end-game and equal gears (pretty much max gear vs max gear). And dont forget. The majority of the "end-game" players roam around in +10-ish gears and +12 Weapon with god-knows what kind of dmg boosts on top of that. The only imbalance is the amount of dmg the players deal in the way they focus on their gear setup in comparision to their defenses. OFC its more expensive to focus defensive gears, but thats a different story.

Ranked PvP people. That is what we need. Set gears. Set lvl. Set buffs. Then its equal. Or we all charge a fortune and go max gears. after all, this is not a balancing issue, never was. You are all bragging about the games initial design.

and so...if you dont lik the game^^ you're free to go^^ (imho, you should for your better)

Sevchenko - Dreamweaver

My mom says: Go read a book my son.
- No need mom, i visit PWI forums.

Indeed with what Joe said, i've seen in other games the "full balanced gears" pvp mode and it really shows the differences between what's OP because of gear difference and what's not OP at all.

SerenityCNB - Dreamweaver

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

^ ABSOLUTELY that. It makes it really hard to spam, there are plenty of times where a bm can't use their genie/apo for chi to get chi to use the skill.



There is nothing like a spammable proc, albeit there is indeed luck involved... still there is nothing likable about a proc that completely erases everything you do as a 'support' class. The purify proc, was and still arguably is oped. Yes bms have/had the best counters to it, but they were still far too few, especially when you added in more people to try and take down an oped caster class. It is also true not everyone has r93r/let alone full +10-12, but the ones who did ran rampant with it. (Casters would absolutely hate it if we had something similair, where we will have a luck chance to reflect 100% of damage taken, that also gives an anti stun/sleep/immobilization/speed boost.)

Chi has always been an issue for bms, it is no different with this skill, while it is broken that it has no counters to it once its on, the bm can be easy to lock down/kill while they're closing the distance, a bm has to conserve chi, and ALL of their gap closers cost chi, save their first sprint, but without any addition to it, it can be quite easy to stop the bm long before they reach you.

-

My point is this: While bm's do indeed have the most stuns, they also have the hardest time closing gaps whether people like to admit this or not, and they also use the MOST chi out of any class, just about every skill they have costs chi, and purify proc can, has, and still is erasing everything a bm throws on a caster, save this new paralyze skill.

I have said it before I wouldn't mind it if there was a genie skill that could negate the new arguably oped paralyze 'proc', because those aren't anywhere near as spammable/way more skill involved in using one than a pesky *** proc that saves people a stupid ridiculous amount of time.

In truth, I think that we're on the same page.

I do agree that purify proc is OP, and does need a nerf...and I play a caster class.
What I would rather see is PWI implement anti-stun skills for classes, as its becoming more of a requirement to anti-stun (Purify proc is what's being used in this instance). This is especially true given aps, GoF,SS, etc that certain classes once locked down will be torn apart by, due to the class lacking any natural anti-stun and counter.

I'm also going to say that yes BM do have a hard time closing, but I'm going to say that barb's have a bit more issue than bm's, since bm's at least have a speed skill and reel in.

In truth, a lot of the weapon procs are what's deciding how tough a character is, which is unfortunate.

Procs like
-Int
-Chan
-Purify
-GoF
-SS
-Purge

All of these can be make or break it, luck based skills, and the sad truth is that they all need some sort of amending done to them, to avoid abuse of them, or causing them to be too OP. That along with amending each of the classes to keep them from being too underpowered/overpowered.

BM's DO use a lot of chi, but considering that purify was originally meant to be the counter to aps...which allows certain bm/sin/aps build toons to permaspark, they can get their chi back with some degree of efficiency.

Speaking from a cleric perspective, all of our distance stallers cost chi, minus the slow from cyclone.

That said, I do agree that bm's can be kept at bay fairly well, and nuked from afar. Trouble is, if they are allowed to get close, they can keep you near fairly well, and beat you to a pulp. LOL.

Overall however, I feel that more effective counters need to be in place to deal with what we have going on in the game to date.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

SerenityCNB - Dreamweaver wrote: »

*snip*

I'm also going to say that yes BM do have a hard time closing, but I'm going to say that barb's have a bit more issue than bm's, since bm's at least have a speed skill and reel in.

*snip*

The other stuff i snipped, we are essentially in agreement.

The part that I didn't snip out...

It is definitely debatable (though I guess that depends on who you ask/how much opinions get involved with it... which we all do indeed have one, and we all voice tem from time to time. Some more than others.) on which is hardest, for me, I find it way harder on a bm, namely due to the tank-ability (role) of a barb. Sure they don't have an as easy access to an anti stun/slow etc buff, but since it costs half the chi, and barbs can actually regain chi at an easier rate than a bm, without hitting their opponent, that with their much larger pool of hp, and their own built in skills, and even how much people would prefer the bm to stay away due to their plethora of stuns, and how much easier it is MOST of the time to kill a bm over a barb, I for one found myself getting closer with my barb MUCH more often than my bm regardless of how I played my bm. This was indeed in the exact same gear, and this has indeed become a lot easier with the NH update, but still life on a bm is no picnic. (Granted it isn't a picnic on ANY class especially while under-geared.)

It is also true that EVERY class needs to have their pros and cons, but when their cons are far too overwhelming to overcome, people get annoyed with said class and a majority of the people on it leave it behind for another class. (Something I feel was the case before NH, (for bms) after NH came out and DR became obtainable/people realized just how useful the paralyze is, I have noticed more bms back on their bms for nw, while it may be oped once its on someone it does have it's limits, and it has made the class a lot more... interesting, though it still hasn't stopped me from being an easy kill most of the time without the use of apo. ;/... Only gear/preparing to the teeth will do that for me, I.E, Apos, Charms... be it hp/mp/weapon charms... or anything else I may be forgetting.)

Apples and oranges I guess. ^^

Also I know I already said I essentially agree with you, you brought up an excellent point about every skill/proc should have something that more or less nullifies it, something that is obtainable by all, without going to extremes like getting people to coordinate on an insane level/not attack someone who has the purify proc.

Teiw - Sanctuary

Joe - Morai wrote: »

This. Finally someone who does understand this game.

What we would really need is a PvP-Event. Something similiar to other MMORPGs. An Event where everyone's got the same gear, cards, lvl and so on and it only matter which class you pick. No other buffs then your own allowed.

This would give the majority of players the chance to experience balanced and equal PvP-ing and heck that would stop those redicolous QQing threads about balance issues on the spot.

I cant take 99% of the community serious. I cant. They always talk about how OP that skill is, or how OP this skill is...but they put it on completely weired contexts. Whats the situation you've been in while experiencing this OP skill? Whats your gear like and what gear did your Opponent have? Would it have been the same if your gears were equal? Like I said, completely without any context. How on earth can anyone actually argue with persons that dont even have an explenation for their friggin beliefs. I'm actually stupid too because I'm still trying to wake you guys up but I do know that you guys dont even care =P Well I dont care anyways^^

No detailed explenation = better ****.

And if the most of you havn't noticed yet. This game is Pay2Win. That means...if you got better gears then you will most likely win over other ppl cept if they are complete morons and cant play. Thats the major problem. The majority of the community cant play and doesnt even understand how this game rolls and ofc. If there are some skilled ppl that take the max advantage out of something "new" like some casters did with the purify proc, or some heavier geared Full Str (DMG overkill) barbs and BMs with their paralyze stuffs then the game itself isnt broken, neither are the skills. It's those players taking the advantage outta it while you other morons are too busy trying to QQ about how OP that stuff is instead of working on a counter-strategy.

And I know what some of you might think now. Dont stress out it's just a game. I dont wanna put that much effort intoa game, I wanna chill after a hard day of work. True. But then stop this friggin QQing and accept your place in the backrows.

Putting no effort into something always means that you will be left behind on that specific term. I dont even know why I obviously need to explain all that basic sht when the majority of the community is "mature". LOL.

This game is pretty much balanced. Ya unfortunatly that only shows on absolute end-game and equal gears (pretty much max gear vs max gear). And dont forget. The majority of the "end-game" players roam around in +10-ish gears and +12 Weapon with god-knows what kind of dmg boosts on top of that. The only imbalance is the amount of dmg the players deal in the way they focus on their gear setup in comparision to their defenses. OFC its more expensive to focus defensive gears, but thats a different story.

Ranked PvP people. That is what we need. Set gears. Set lvl. Set buffs. Then its equal. Or we all charge a fortune and go max gears. after all, this is not a balancing issue, never was. You are all bragging about the games initial design.

and so...if you dont lik the game^^ you're free to go^^ (imho, you should for your better)

All you ever do is sit on your high horse, act like you are the God Emperor of pwi, and that everyone else other than you is so dumb that they can't be trusted with scissors or crayons, and need 24/7 adult supervision.


I'm not sure if the forums are dead or not, since I see a lot of posts that are recent. But there really isn't that much else to do on the forums other than complain about the game. If we were all having a wonderful time we would probably talk about that on the forums too, but we aren't.

bannokmak

He is Number 1 barb in pwi (braggart) and die easily on Sin in 1v1 b:chuckle

plusonepostcount

bannokmak wrote: »

He is Number 1 barb in pwi (braggart) and die easily on Sin in 1v1 b:chuckle

Really? Never heard of him. . . must not be that great. and sins are highest melee (auto attack) dps toon in game. Barbs don't have the usefullness they used to either. No point in stacking vit who needs it with the op gear we have can't go pure str either cause you miss everything. Give barbs the ability to stack dex for damage the way sins do and not miss 75% of the time and ye they'll stand their ground. Barbs are a buff class now in my opinion sadly to say being a barb was the very first toon I rolled. But the game has changed and the classes with it. Functionality of squad dynamics is gone now and very few specialist classes are needed. Now its get as much damage to kill anything before it hits you.

Shadowvzss - Harshlands

sontzu wrote: »

Same old story, different names.

2010 --> omg sins are so op and broken

2011 --> omg seekers+sin are so op and broken

2012 --> omg r9r3+sin is so op and broken

2013 --> omg casters wep+sin with puri is so op and broken

2014 --> omg this qqing is so annoying and repetitive +sin

Life is a wheel; sometimes you are at the top, and sometimes you are at the bottom being squished into the mud. The secret of survival is to stop qqing and wait for the wheel (to turn)

hehe

but now seriosuly, i agree in remove purge from caster weapon if they remove gof/sacrificial aswell from 3rd weapons b:laughb:laughb:laugh

Barbs are a buff class

was buff class, tank class, like cleric was healer class etc but its changed, still i somehow would give less dmg to barb and more defence, atleast in transformed form for make them more nasty in tw, but since anyway tw rules will change i think not that important

XXHotXx - Morai

remove purify and give us gof then

the current purify counter (paralyze) was not necessary in this "spammable" terms

to counter something that had few counters (purify) they devved paralyze that has 1-2 counters (IG, Tidal), giving even more the edge to what had no counters (Tidal)

when everything was needed to fix balance was just a counter to Tidal


gg