A continued discussion to Kni's thread.

Zanryu - Lothranis

Seeing as I didn't get the chance to reply, I'd like to do so here. To make it perfectly clear, I was not trolling in that thread nor am I trolling here so I'd like to avoid having this thread closed. I simply wish to continue the discussion that was being had until Kni requested his thread be closed.

This is my own thread, so I'd like to keep it open in order to actually let us voice our opinions on the fight rather than having it closed down like the other thread. Please feel free to delete any troll posts. With that out of the way, let's get started:

I didn't have a choice, I'm on a pvp server. It wasn't a pre-arranged 1v1 and i cant magically turn blue and beg for better conditions.
You have no room to give me any advice because anyone can watch any individual video of yours and see you have no idea what you are doing.

Don't respect my opinion? How about Adroit's? He's called you out in several threads for being incompetent at pretty much everything.

Interesting. You're the only one that really seems to have issues with my playing. You and Adroit, interesting how only people who dislike me on the forums have said I'm not good. It's because I've noticed some people I've killed on Archo, and even back on Morai who said the same thing after I beat them. You'll need to find proof to back that up, which you honestly don't have.



Opening with smack vs an archer or a wizard is intelligent. If you cloudsprint + smack you can seal them before their opener which is usually a stun from an archer. This allows you to move in fast during that seal time to open up offensively.
Try it some time.

It really isn't because it means they get to conserve their stun until after you don't have Smack. It gives them a chance to set up a combo. Here's how that goes against a competent Archer: You use Smack, they start running the other way, once you're close they Fortify and you either waste a stun as well or they leap. You could use paralyze, but that will cost you a spark and they still have enough genie energy to tank any combo you may use as well as chi to counter attack. You could Blade Hurl but then that'll likely be on cooldown when you need it.

It's a poor choice to Smack from the start.

Having no chi is exactly why I used the apoth. an ironguard or sutra would have given me 6 or 12 seconds to regain chi and keep up with him. The 20 sec vacuity was indeed wasted, and i would have been better off not using it there because i managed to catch up and stun him immediately.

A White Tea would have done the job far better. An instant 2 sparks that can be built upon, rather than trying to build chi while simultaneously "keeping on him" and expending the chi you're trying to gain.

You don't seem to understand the importance of keeping in close range of him so he deals half damage. I keep him from making more than 1 attack at a time usually so the damage he is dealing to me is 1/2 x 1/3 because of 66% def charm. Those low hits he does to me are 1/6 a hit.


You don't seem to understand the importance of chi conservation. Keeping in range is important, that's why you have leaps and your sprints. However, if you're expending all of your chi just to do it you're giving your opponent a huge advantage over you. Going at the fight so offensively, trying to hard to stay on them and losing most of your chi while doing it makes it easier for him to set up a combo on you. You put things in cooldown when they don't need to be and you don't actually put yourself in a better position for it, you put yourself in one where it's actually harder to defend yourself. You aren't "preventing a bad situation", you're only making it worse once it happens because in trying to prevent that attack before it happens you're wasting the resources you'd use to stop it and letting them save their resources for a time when you're out.


Again, I am doing this for defense not offense.

Okidoke buddy. Though I would call that resource and chi wasting since, again, you weren't in danger of dying and after the three seconds of being frozen he just runs away. Without you getting any closer to ending the fight.

Totally wrong, you sir are an idiot.
My apoth is in cd, my genie doesnt have the fuel for ToP or Domain, i have less than 1 spark, and a +12 archer just got a significant distance away from me. That is a GREAT time to use Buddha's Guard.

Idk if you noticed but he is dealing 2k+ crits through defense charms & buddhas guard

Yeah, you know, until it gets purged off you and with your genie and apo in cooldown you have literally nothing you can really do. There's no convincing anyone that Buddha's Guard was a good choice there. It was a waste, ESPECIALLY under the condition that you had no genie energy or apothecary as you wasted something that could mitigate damage after a purge and give you some breathing room to rebuff on an Archer that wasn't actually about to kill you.

Also, he was only doing 3k-ish crits after it wore off. You had full HP. Against an Archer doing roughly 3k crits. There was absolutely no reason to use Buddha's Guard there. It was a waste.


Charm has just ticked. Snipez has crit me over 20k with metal attacks before. I switched to a +25 defense level sword causing him to do minimal damage on top of the defense charms and trying to stay in range.

Even with a fresh charm tick, if you had conserved Smack or Blade Hurl you'd be able to use it to stop the next incoming attack and decide whether or not you want to use Domain or even go into a Smack+Blade Hurl combo. That would actually be acceptable in a situation where you're at low HP and your charm is freshly ticked. You chose to use these resources on other things though. This is what I mean when I say you aren't preventing a bad situation, you're just making it worse when it happens. You used your genie in a situation where it wasn't truly necessary because you were scared of a random metal zerk crit. When, if you had other preventative measures, you'd have been able to use those instead.


Locking down my opponent to attempt to make them waste genie so I can try for a kill, keeps them on defense using their chi to get away instead of to attack. Idk if you noticed throughout the entire fight but I regain chi very quickly.
Sage Dragons gives me back 75 chi.
Sage Ferocious Leap gives me 20 chi w/ 3 sec cd.
Start Smite gives me 50 chi every 6 seconds (and while wielding a +25 defense level sword)
Sage Roar costs 15 less chi than demon.
Sage Chi Skill, free 50 chi a minute
& when necessary, my genie gives me 104 chi every 43 seconds.

Try for a kill with what chi?
How do you intend to truly lock them down when you have such a low amount of chi?
Even with all of your chi gain you still manage to have well under two sparks for a lot of that fight. I'm Demon, I lack the chi saving perks of Sage and I don't have Star Smite and my chi management is still better than yours.

Without chi a BM is useless, you waste your chi and resources on things you just shouldn't be wasting them on. Like trying to lock down a target that isn't threatening to kill you any time soon and using your preventative measures on them in order to farther "lock them down" while allowing them to basically sit there, virtually unthreatened by your damage, with enough chi to go for a damage combo that would be difficult for you to actually stop.

Yes mistimed. No not used without reason.
He was antistunning, I didn't want him to attack when he was antistunned.

It's fair to use Blade Hurl on an anti stunned Archer to prevent them from going on the offensive and allowing yourself to close the distance since they can't stun you, but you don't actually have the chi to take advantage of it. I've Blade Hurled Archers under anti stun, but the difference is I had the chi to take advantage of things once I did get in close. Without chi for a lock you aren't going to kill a target unless you're better geared or they sit there and try to tank you.


That was actually to try and help RaydenRyu.
AfterMathz was in range and i didnt want to switch targets and lose sight of Snipez's buff bar.
I commonly will not change targets if the target i already have is in range.

I don't see why you'd want to waste your resources on someone else's fight in a 1v1, but hey, that's your deal I guess.

Reckless Rush was a mistake on my part here I agree. I anticipated being frozen and it never happened. Was just plain dumb. The vacuity again though, is defensive. If I can stay on top of him he wont kill me, and 20 seconds is longer than 6 or 12 by a long shot.

It's a bit difficult to stay on top of a target that's faster than you and has longer leaps. To be honest he could easily kite your vacuity. Of course, we're assuming he doesn't luck out and purge you during it.


I reeled him in because archers hit very hard when they are far away. You severely underestimate his damage. I am using defense charms and keeping him at 1/2 damage distance throughout the fight.
And DURRR thats why i'm not demon. you have no chi.

I really don't. I fought a far better geared Archer, and I did it in a self buffed fight. I had no defense charms but through playing defensively and managing my chi I was able to stand my ground.

DURRRR you enjoy wasting that bathtub full of chi you have while I'm locking down my opponents and actually killing them thanks to proper chi management.


I don't use reel in...
Do you mean bladehurl? If you mean bladehurl, I used it when smack ended to continue keeping him unable to attack. Genie & Apoth are both on cd at this point.

Yeah, I meant Bladehurl. Your genie wasn't in CD. You used Cloud Eruption right after the Bladehurl. Given how close he was to you and that you had cloudsprint and leaps ready to go there was no reason to use Smack and Bladehurl there.


Actually a good call. You are 100% correct here.

Gracias

Negative. Watch again. His immunity ends as I cast roar but he manages to distance himself from it. That was timed. Notice I stand there and use Sage Chi skill timing his antistun to end. He used a leap which got him away in time.

It was mistimed you mean. Timing a stun to go off right after someone's anti is a good play, but it's nothing but a waste of you mistime it. Which is what you did. Roar after that Bash was very predictable, he could have easily Fortified it. Your Roar, even if you had time it right, would not have landed if he was competent. You should have at least tried to cancel it when you noticed his buff icon was still up mid-channel. I admit, I've had a fair amount of times when I tried to cancel but it wouldn't, but even if you wanted to time it to the end of his lock if you paid attention to his buff you could have at least tried to cancel, then re-cast if you were counting down and knew it was about to end.

Bladehurl used when the archer is at a distance, preventing him from attacking while i close the gap.

Even for that reason, it's a waste. The less you have available after a purge the worse off you are.

bad timing. I agree with you here. I missed an extra skill I could have gotten in and an extra second he could have been stunned.

Gracias

Nope, I wouldn't have had him in distance still to use roar when it came off cd if I hadn't used reckless.

I don't know why I didn't post it in the video or on the other thread, but you Smacked during your Paralyze. I can only assume this was to combo Rush into it in order to freeze him for your Roar, however all of this was a massive waste. Even with Reckless that Archer could have stunned you. He could have Fortified. He could have used leaps to get away if he wasn't affected by that glitch. He could have used Alacrity or Wings of Grace. Why he didn't, I'll never figure out. There was no reason to waste Smack+Reckless there, especially not when you had such a massive whole in your stunlock that you couldn't close with Roar still on CD.


Archer is antistunned. Using smack prevents him from attacking.
Much like stunning usually prevents him from attacking.

It was literally right next to you. It wasn't even hurting you much.


Smack ended, he is still antistunned, bladehurl means he still can't attack.

His anti stunned ended right after your Smack. Perhaps you weren't paying attention during the fight. Blade Hurl was a bad move, but Reel In was a good choice to start locking him down and going for a kill.

closing distance, keeping on top of the enemy.

I'm starting to think you aren't good ad judging distances. On one of my videos you commented about me leaping to a target that was 6 meters away, when in fact they were actually a full Tiger Leap away (closing distance and a chance to dodge status was an obvious choice in that situation). However, here you believe you need to waste Reckless Rush to stay on an enemy that really is only 6 meters away. While you have a speed boost up no less. Reckless Rush was a horrible play and a massive waste of a good finisher.



What i am getting is that you don't use your skill until you are in a bad situation.
I use miine to prevent myself from getting in one in the first place.

And what I am getting at is that you waste your resources when you honestly don't need to, which is a horrible trait for a BM. Obviously there's a such thing as over conserving, but you're over extending. That's the kind of thing that gets you killed against anyone competent.

1. I don't really "troll". I post in threads to have fun, usually if I'm saying something trollish such as calling someone stupid or an idiot, it's because they kind of are. Other than that, my posts tend to be whatever comes off the top of my head, however that does not invalidate my opinions when I'm actually being serious. Just because I joke around on the forums doesn't mean I'm incapable of having a serious discussion, and just because I disagree with how you play doesn't mean I'm trolling you.

To be honest, that's a lesson a lot of people need to learn. Someone disagreeing with you isn't trolling.

2. Bestest buddies! At least she has legitimate opinions, as opposed to whoever that stoneface was that did nothing but try to insult me. She's not here to back me up or tag team you, she legitimately thinks your playstyle is... weird.. too. She's allowed to post her opinion as much as anybody.

3. Uh... what? I don't even know Vedavis. Aside from possibly having seen me on the forums I doubt they know me as well. He or she is right, I think you do like playing the victim.


Given that it's me, I understand this thread could very well be closed, but I'd like to ask once again that it be left open so that we can all voice our opinions. There was quite a discussion on the other thread until it got closed, I simply wish to keep it going without the people who were disrupting it.

Jaabg - Sanctuary

Would it be possible to get a link to the videos in question? I read the post and felt i could not say one thing or the other, without seeing the video. I hope video is normal speed and not 2x~6x regular speed. Everyone seems like a competent bm when speed is so high.

Zanryu - Lothranis

The video that I was criticizing is the one he most recently created a thread about.

Click here.

The videos of mine he criticized are the ones below:

Click here.

Click here too.

You know the drill.

Kniraven - Lost City

1st off I'd just like to let you know Zanryu that archers can't zerk crit. You can rest easy. Might want to go edit that little blunder. The comment gave me a good chuckle though.

No evidence of your incompetence? You linked several good references for me in your reply to jaabg.

I'm at work on my cell at the moment so i can't reply to every individual critique but what I can say is that it's easy to put down someone else. You make some of the most ridiculous mistakes in your videos i have ever seen.

In TW you focus on single targets and spend most your time hiding behind support DD. You truly rolled the wrong class. In 1v1s you frequently let your enemies get away, lock you, and nearly kill you then survive by some lucky miracle at the last moment despite outgearing your enemy in most cases.

You are in no position to be critiquing me.

You may not play the way i do, but it works for me and has made me one of the strongest/best known of my class on my server. I am not THE best, there are several more skilled than i. Some of then i like, such as Hafnium. Some of them i dislike such as NyKage or ZevreX.

That being said, it's easy to go back and see things you could have potentially done better or things your opponent could have potentially improved on. When you are in the moment you make the decision you feel is most favorable in that moment. Or sometimes you just stall for time until you can think of an appropriate strategy.

I can not stress enough that this is not a choreographed planned out fight. There was no discussion, no terms or conditions, no favor or courtesy.

This was an attack, on a pvp server.
I used what was available to me and my opponent used what he had.
I did not have any chi pots.
There was no agreement about buffs.
There was no chi building opportunity prior to the fight.

I have a separate genie i use for 1v1 which i could not switch to.

Finally, like you say "oh only ppl who dislike me say I'm bad". Most people are aware my negative history with the 3 of you on this forum. Its a 2 way street buddy.

In summary:
Pipe down. You don't like watching me play then don't.
You're entitled to your opinions but i don't feel like having an e-peen contest with you over the forums. I hope this thread is closed too before it gets out of hand.

Madebyvisa - Raging Tide

Kni>zan nuff said... not that i partically like either play style.. way too overthought complicated and defensive.. not that i can compare cause both are way under my gear and judging from vids also fight less/ same geared ones as them aka nothing close to endgame . b:bye

Zanryu - Lothranis

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

1st off I'd just like to let you know Zanryu that archers can't zerk crit. You can rest easy. The comment gave me a good chuckle though.

I'm well aware. I'm too used to talking about Seekers as I fight a lot of those lately. Archers have a purge proc, we all know they can't zerk crit. Don't think I'd ever walk out of SZ if they could.

No evidence of your incompetence? You linked several good references for me in your reply to jaabg.

Are you sure about that? Because a lot of what you pointed out was pretty small. In fact, quite a bit of it wasn't even something I did wrong. You called me out on using Roar on an antistunned target when in actuality their Purify Spell went off mid-channel. That's not a gameplay flaw, that's just bad luck.

You, however, have fundamental playstyle flaws. Many of which I pointed out for you.

I'm at work on my cell at the moment so i can't reply to every individual critique but what I can say is that it's easy to put down someone else. You make some of the most ridiculous mistakes in your videos i have ever seen.

Do tell. I'm aware I make mistakes from time to time, it happens. Of course, I prefer making mistakes to having flaws in my approach to PvP overall.

In TW you focus on single targets and spend most your time hiding behind support DD. You truly rolled the wrong class. In 1v1s you frequently let your enemies get away, lock you, and nearly kill you then survive by some lucky miracle at the last moment despite outgearing your enemy in most cases.

Oh my, you based this off of the one TW video I've posted. A TW, by the way, where I had little communication with my squad and was the very first TW I'd actually done in well over a year at the time. TW is something that takes teamwork, something that the squad has to work together at, and if that's not there it doesn't matter what I try to do if there's no support. I'm certainly not the best TW BM, I don't claim to be. In that TW I was very undergeared at being only +6 against many heavy hitting DDs. I did not have the ability to survive on my own for very long, I HAD to play defensive and hide behind other people at times.

In 1v1s I actually kill my opponents, probably because I don't waste chi locking them when I can't kill them or blowing cooldowns when they aren't actually threatening to kill me. Also, what exactly do you mean I overgear my opponents in most cases? In nearly every video I've posted I was always undergeared in comparison or at the very least we had equal gear. There's one video of me fighting two people under my gear level, but considering it was the two strongest 1v1 classes both fighting me, I think it can be forgiven. I've beaten full +10 Assassins, Clerics, Psychics, and Wizards while being +6 with a +10 weapon and having inferior shards. I have proof of each of those on my channel.

The "you overgear" your opponent statement can fly with a lot of people, but if you've actually watched my videos you'd know you only make yourself look like a moron by saying I overgear majority of the people I've fought.

You are in no position to be critiquing me.

As a fellow BM and as someone who has a fair amount of experience with 1v1s I'd say I am.

You may not play the way i do, but it works for me and has made me one of the strongest/best known of my class on my server. I am not THE best, there are several more skilled than i. Some of then lm i like, such as Hafnium. Some of them i dislike such as NyKage or ZevreX.

Strongest and best known are not the same. I'm far more likely to believe you're well known than strong, as being well known on PWI is easy given our small community. I can't comment on the skill of other LC BMs as I haven't seen them in action, but how good they are or who they are is irrelevant.

That being said, it's easy to go back and see things you could have potentially done better or things your opponent could have potentially improved on. When you are in the moment you make the decision you feel is most favorable in that moment. Or sometimes you just stall for time until you can think of an appropriate strategy.

It is easier to see that, that's why I make videos. So I can go back to them and watch it, see what I could have done differently, and apply that to other fights. The thing is though, in the fight, the decisions you made weren't that good. The ways you used your resources weren't that good. I'm not insulting you as a person, I'm not insulting you as a BM, I'm just saying that your playstyle in the video was flawed.

I can not stress enough that this is not a choreographed planned out fight. There was no discussion, no terms or conditions, no favor or courtesy.

This was an attack, on a pvp server.
I used what was available to me and my opponent used what he had.
I did not have any chi pots.
There was no agreement about buffs.
There was no chi building opportunity prior to the fight.

We get that it wasn't a planned 1v1, we get that you had to build chi in the fight, but none of that changes the fact that you wasted a lot of your resources during the fight and got absolutely nowhere because of it.

I have a separate genie i use for 1v1 which i could not switch to.

Okidoke.

Finally, like you say "oh only ppl who dislike me say I'm bad". Most people are aware my negative history with the 3 of you on this forum. Its a 2 way street buddy.

Indeed. We do have a negative history, but that doesn't make my opinion any less valid.

In summary:
Pipe down. You don't like watching me play then don't.
You're entitled to your opinions but i don't feel like having an e-peen contest with you over the forums. I hope this thread is closed too before it gets out of hand.

If you post a video expect people to voice their opinions on it. I'm a person, I get to voice my opinion. You can do the same for any of my videos.

This isn't an e-peen contest. I posted that your playstyle was flawed, you took that as an opportunity to go on three of my videos and comment, so I did the same to the video I believed you played poorly in. If you want to criticize someone else in detail it's only fair they return the favor.

Hoping my thread gets closed is just you being a bit of a poor sport honestly. It's a game, chill out and relax.

I don't want my thread closed. Meanie.

Kniraven - Lost City

Madebyvisa - Raging Tide wrote: »

Kni>zan nuff said... not that i partically like either play style.. way too overthought complicated and defensive.. not that i can compare cause both are way under my gear and judging from vids also fight less/ same geared ones as them aka nothing close to endgame . b:bye

Yeah, i don't have end game gear yet, but I'm working on it. I do fight people with end game gear though and usually have good luck vs end game wizards, clerics, and psychics. I do pretty well vs end game barbs as well, josd and all but those fights last forever.

I appreciate your comment, doesn't take a whole lot to outperform Zan though.

@ Zanryu
Expending my chi caused my opponent the need to expend his. Archers can't kill terribly well without chi either. Blademasters however gain chi faster than they do. You underestimate my opponent significantly because i kept him from the opportunity to display what he could do.

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

Yeah, i don't have end game gear yet, but I'm working on it. I do fight people with end game gear though and usually have good luck vs end game wizards, clerics, and psychics. I do pretty well vs end game barbs as well, josd and all but those fights last forever.

Isn't that how it's supposed to work in the first place anyway...

HA kills AA by physical brute force,
HA vs HA should be a pain in the *** because muh physical defenses.

AA kills HA by MAGIC I AINT GOTTA EXPLAIN SHIAT
AA vs AA should be a pain in the *** because muh magic defenses.

LA Pokes around equally. Unless you're a sin. Sins will kill both of them.
LA vs LA is whoever manages to land a hard hit first. Unless you're a Sin.

Either vs LA should deal... normal-ish damage, between the damage of HA and AA.

Well... it would be like that... if there was any balance.
Kek.

p.s.: BM's are only good for being HF slaves anyway.
b:avoid

Zanryu - Lothranis

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

Yeah, i don't have end game gear yet, but I'm working on it. I do fight people with end game gear though and usually have good luck vs end game wizards, clerics, and psychics. I do pretty well vs end game barbs as well, josd and all but those fights last forever.

I appreciate your comment, doesn't take a whole lot to outperform Zan though.

@ Zanryu
Expending my chi caused my opponent the need to expend his. Archers can't kill terribly well without chi either. Blademasters however gain chi faster than they do. You underestimate my opponent significantly because i kept him from the opportunity to display what he could do.

Scayoose you.

You don't have a chi drain genie and can't use Mo Zun's taunt. The only chi that Archer has to expend is on Aim Low, Wings of Grace, Alacrity, Blood Vow, and the odd metal skill. A lot of their main skills don't actually consume chi. The Archer didn't leap a whole lot and didn't need to use his genie much. Cloud Eruption would have easily covered the cost of Wings or Alacrity after he used them each time given the low amount of chi you had and inability to lock him when you needed or finish when you could have. He also didn't have to really use apothecary.

Let's not forget Awaken is a thing.

Why he didn't BV you is completely beyond me.

You didn't do enough to him to force him to use much of anything really, which is why I said your playstyle in that fight was bad. You went through your own resources without really giving your opponent a need to go through theirs.

Kniraven - Lost City

Zanryu - Lothranis wrote: »

Scayoose you.

You don't have a chi drain genie and can't use Mo Zun's taunt. The only chi that Archer has to expend is on Aim Low, Wings of Grace, Alacrity, Blood Vow, and the odd metal skill. A lot of their main skills don't actually consume chi. The Archer didn't leap a whole lot and didn't need to use his genie much. Cloud Eruption would have easily covered the cost of Wings or Alacrity after he used them each time given the low amount of chi you had and inability to lock him when you needed or finish when you could have. He also didn't have to really use apothecary.

Let's not forget Awaken is a thing.

Why he didn't BV you is completely beyond me.

You didn't do enough to him to force him to use much of anything really, which is why I said your playstyle in that fight was bad. You went through your own resources without really giving your opponent a need to go through theirs.

Completely disagree

ovenusarmanio

As the other thread was closed, take it the private messages.