Regarding the skill Pounce

Licancura - Archosaur

After more than two years, I finally got my Herc. He's level 60+ now and it seems Pounce doesn't have five levels like other skills. Then I found some old threads where it was recomended to remove Pounce and replace it with Bash. Is that still a good idea?

For most stuff I use my non-evolved magmite, and in the primal world, mainly my supreme walker so, the herc would be only for those mini-bosses I can't take down with them (like Gargantakong b:angry b:cry).

Help would be appreciated b:thanks

Mauntille - Heavens Tear

Assuming you're using the Herc on your level 100+ Veno, it might be more beneficial to not replace Pounce with Bash, at least for now.

One of the biggest reasons that Bash was recommended was to help keep aggro, which isn't really as much of an issue if you evolve your Herc and go for aggro skills with the moods. (Check out Desdi's sticky if you're not up to date on pet evolution.) Since you're a much higher level than your Herc, swapping out Pounce for Bash isn't really going to even out the aggro difference very much anyway.

My advice would be to get him up to 100, evolve him, and get his mood/skills sorted out before you worry about replacing Pounce too much. You mention you only plan to use the Herc for a few mini-bosses, but that may change once you've got him up to your level. Once you've got him worked into your usual routine, it should become more easily apparent what he's lacking. That could be anything from a more spammable aggro skill (Bash, or an elemental variety), even higher hp (Blessing of the Pack), overall higher damage (Claw), debuffs (Howl, Pierce), etc.

Plus, Pounce is not a bad skill. The stun can be quite handy (especially if you're pulling aggro on stunnable mobs and you want an extra second or so to finish taking them out).

Licancura - Archosaur

Mauntille - Heavens Tear wrote: »

My advice would be to get him up to 100, evolve him, and get his mood/skills sorted out before you worry about replacing Pounce too much. You mention you only plan to use the Herc for a few mini-bosses, but that may change once you've got him up to your level. Once you've got him worked into your usual routine, it should become more easily apparent what he's lacking.

That's a very sensible advice, and I'll follow it, thanks a lot. b:thanks

Marengo - Lost City

If I bought herc after evolution update, I'd never remove pounce. Skills choice is wider now with Moods. Besides you can use such herc in pvp in NW if you don't have nix/monkey. Even though it doesn't hit hard, it can stun and distract squishier targets. Just like I used nix before getting monkey: mostly for stunning, but it neither hit hard nor survived for long b:laugh Herc won't die as fast at least.
Also attack rate increases even if stun doesn't work (on bosses).
It's not useless at all, I'd keep.

it seems Pounce doesn't have five levels like other skills

Herc's skills are of max lvl by default. If it's not 5lv, it means 5th lvl doesn't exist for this skill.

Mayfly - Dreamweaver

Pounce is a 2 level only skill.

Desdi - Sanctuary

Marengo - Lost City wrote: »

Also attack rate increases even if stun doesn't work (on bosses).
It's not useless at all, I'd keep.

The skill description says the attack rate procs if the target is stunned. I was under the impression it wouldn't work if the target is not stunned but does it work like Crush Vigor then?

As you know Demon Crush Vigor procs even if the enemy used AD/Immune. Does Pounce work like that? I never really paid attention since most of my PvE pets didn't have Pounce (when Phoenix could finally evolve I already had the Harpy which replaced every PvE pet I used minus the Hercules when I needed melee tanking).


To the OP; definitely keep Pounce for now until you decide what you want to do with your Hercules. You can build it as a tank, a DD/support pet or a PvP pet and each path leads to a different skill set but until you decide what you want to do don't touch Pounce yet. Skills like Howl or Bash can be replaced easily but legendary skills are more expensive and/or harder to get compared to regular skills so think carefully.

Marengo - Lost City

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

The skill description says the attack rate procs if the target is stunned. I was under the impression it wouldn't work if the target is not stunned but does it work like Crush Vigor then?

Yeah, I think so, it's 96% to proc, so if it does, pet gets attack rate buff. Target and its ability to be stunned or not should count separately. But I will test and pay closer attention to it as soon as I meet a boss in game

Marengo - Lost City

Yes, it works as I always thought, pet gets attack rate buff even if it attacks a boss.

Astraea - Raging Tide

Marengo - Lost City wrote: »

Yes, it works as I always thought, pet gets attack rate buff even if it attacks a boss.

bosses are generally immune to stun so did it proc even without the big red "RESIST" appearing above the boss's head?

Desdi - Sanctuary

Astraea - Raging Tide wrote: »

bosses are generally immune to stun so did it proc even without the big red "RESIST" appearing above the boss's head?

Yes, I think that what Marengo said but worded it in a different way. I guess it makes sense the attack rate effect is based on the proc itself rather then whether the target is indeed stunned or not...but then it means the description would need tweaking.

One more reminder not to completely trust PWI skill descriptions b:chuckle

Marengo - Lost City

I believe it works like this:
Script records pet's use of skill and appoints proc randomly with 96% chance. If successful, pet gets buff.
Another part of code is responsible for target's ability to be stunned, and even if it's immuned to it, system doesn't re-count pet's stun proc but protects a boss (or any other immuned target) from stunning.

Debuff-immune relationships between players are a bit more complicated though b:chuckle