PvP skills rebalance

XXHotXx - Morai

As per what discussed in http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=21492341&posted=1#post21492341

We are therefore requesting to rebalance the other classes DPH-DPS to Elimination Values modifying current skills as:

Wizard:

Frozen Flame

currently:

Channelling Time: 2.0 secs
Cast Time: 1.8 secs

Coooldown: 30 seconds
Chi Gained: 30 chi

Effect:

2 hits for each: 50% base magic damage + 4800 + 400% weapon damage
60% chance to stun for 3 seconds and 80% slow for 6 seconds

---

Frozen Flame suggested rework:

Channelling Time: 0.1 secs (as per Elimination)
Cast Time: 2.5 secs (as per Elimination)

Cooldown: 15 seconds (as per Elimination)
Chi Gained: 30 chi (as per Elimination)

Effect:
4 hits for total 320% base magic damage + 935% weapon damage (as per elimination)
Immobilizes target for 3 seconds, CC effect bypasses Tidal Protection (as per elimination)

---

gogo other Class users post your skill rework suggestions b:pleased

Bhavyy - Raging Tide

K.
Rework frost splash in the same way please.

heerohex#3018

With out good reason I tend to stay away from skill suggestions. My main reason for this is I would like to be able to trust the Devs to make the correct decisions for new skills / existing skills.

So with the above im not going to log.

Thanks,

Sevchenko - Dreamweaver

I think this is a bad troll.

1st off: An average sin barely reaches 15k base damage while wizards can easy hit 30k base physical damage, we're talking about non-sparked values.

2ndly: Assassin's weapon has WAY less damage than wizards weapon, so 900% sin weapon damage is way inferior than 400% wizard weapon damage.

3rdly: Assassins are MEANT to have advantage over wizards, that's how the 'rock-paper-scissors' of the game works, the same way wizards are meant to have advantage over BMs/barbs/seekers.

4th point: Assassins are melee class, LA users, we don't have any channeling on weapons and armor, so our skills ought to be fast naturally.

5th: Wizards already hit hard enough.

6th: Wizards are the most favored caster class, best morai/primal skills for casters, if someone is to hit that hard I'd say Cleric or Mystic.

Zanryu - Lothranis

Sevchenko - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I think this is a bad troll.

1st off: An average sin barely reaches 15k base damage while wizards can easy hit 30k base physical damage, we're talking about non-sparked values.

2ndly: Assassin's weapon has WAY less damage than wizards weapon, so 900% sin weapon damage is way inferior than 400% wizard weapon damage.

3rdly: Assassins are MEANT to have advantage over wizards, that's how the 'rock-paper-scissors' of the game works, the same way wizards are meant to have advantage over BMs/barbs/seekers.

4th point: Assassins are melee class, LA users, we don't have any channeling on weapons and armor, so our skills ought to be fast naturally.

5th: Wizards already hit hard enough.

6th: Wizards are the most favored caster class, best morai/primal skills for casters, if someone is to hit that hard I'd say Cleric or Mystic.

Sadly this is the kind of Rock, Paper, Scissors PWI is playing.

Only you know... imagine that scissors beats rock too, instead of just hiding from it.

XXHotXx - Morai

Sevchenko - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I think this is a bad troll.

1st off: An average sin barely reaches 15k base damage while wizards can easy hit 30k base physical damage, we're talking about non-sparked values.

2ndly: Assassin's weapon has WAY less damage than wizards weapon, so 900% sin weapon damage is way inferior than 400% wizard weapon damage.

3rdly: Assassins are MEANT to have advantage over wizards, that's how the 'rock-paper-scissors' of the game works, the same way wizards are meant to have advantage over BMs/barbs/seekers.

4th point: Assassins are melee class, LA users, we don't have any channeling on weapons and armor, so our skills ought to be fast naturally.

5th: Wizards already hit hard enough.

6th: Wizards are the most favored caster class, best morai/primal skills for casters, if someone is to hit that hard I'd say Cleric or Mystic.

1: a r9r3+12 wizard with 800 mag has 30k base damage... while a g15 nirvana+10 sin has 15k base damage...

2: 30% less damage, wizard has the Magic weapon (sword) with lesser damage range in game, not that matters anyways with nowadays endgame base attack values

3: since when a class is supposed to have an advantage on another class, thats called unbalance

4: so what? at current endgame scenario, who can dps skills wins, wiz cannot do that

5: we dont @ endgame vs endgame

6: at endgame we are outdpsed by all the other Arcane Classes

just what zanryu said, we should have rock paper shissors, but happens that shissors beat paper rock other type of shissors all together

Sevchenko - Dreamweaver

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

1: a r9r3+12 wizard with 800 mag has 30k base damage... while a g15 nirvana+10 sin has 15k base damage...
Not true, I have g15 nirvana +10 and I'm full dexterity 2nd RB I don't reach 12k max damage with that ****.

2: 30% less damage, wizard has the Magic weapon (sword) with lesser damage range in game, not that matters anyways with nowadays endgame base attack values
Adversity +12 = 1682-2130
Requiem +12 = 2481-2799
What was you saying?
Also, casters can have much more magic than an assassin can have dexterity, for LA armor requires a lot of Strength to use.

3: since when a class is supposed to have an advantage on another class, thats called unbalance.
Balance is when each class has strong and weak points, wizards are strong on mass combat, okay, Let sins be strong on 1v1, because while a sin is trying to kill you other 4 or 5 are killing the sin with ease once sins are BAD on ranged/massive combat.

4: so what? at current endgame scenario, who can dps skills wins, wiz cannot do that
I don't know if you know but a sin is unable to hit harder than a wizard (equally geared) on damage ranking test mob. Even with God of Frenzy.

5: we dont @ endgame vs endgame
Then you sir are lame. Wizards hit fairly hard.

6: at endgame we are outdpsed by all the other Arcane Classes
I never said it was better favored by att, look at other casters primal skills, they're such a shame, wiz get extra chi gain from glacial embrace, an auto teleport when attacked, highest pdef among casters, more stuns with primal. I think you're just a bad troll.

just what zanryu said, we should have rock paper shissors, but happens that shissors beat paper rock other type of shissors all together
Sins have a big disadvantage against barbs, for barbs are very resistant to physical damage and deal a good amount of pdamage on assassin's light armor, comparing equivalent gears both with skillspam.

You are barely argumenting, you're just expressing your frustration on how your class is not god-mode all-kill class.

The point here is: Sins are supposed to be 1v1 gods, its the class role and strong spot, compensates the leak of defenses, hp, range and mass combat ability. The lack of strong 1v1 capability on wizards is due to their already strong 'strong spots' which are mass pvp/combat, magic damage, anti-tank (kill barbs/bms/seekers/sins who are attacking someone else).
You know sins have a very low magic resistance too.

Also, don't make me start talking about spark + undine strike...

In short: Game is well balanced, I do believe maybe clerics are a little underpowered (got better with morai, but primals are a little bit lame tbh), barbs primal skills are lame to compensate for the OP morai ones, as well as sin OP primal skills compensate lame morai ones.... Meanwhile wizards get OP morai AND primal skills, different than sins and psychics, they don't need to **** blood for a 150m worth of skill to get any of their primals.

XXHotXx - Morai

Sevchenko - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You are barely argumenting, you're just expressing your frustration on how your class is not god-mode all-kill class.

The point here is: Sins are supposed to be 1v1 gods, its the class role and strong spot, compensates the leak of defenses, hp, range and mass combat ability. The lack of strong 1v1 capability on wizards is due to their already strong 'strong spots' which are mass pvp/combat, magic damage, anti-tank (kill barbs/bms/seekers/sins who are attacking someone else).
You know sins have a very low magic resistance too.

Also, don't make me start talking about spark + undine strike...

In short: Game is well balanced, I do believe maybe clerics are a little underpowered (got better with morai, but primals are a little bit lame tbh), barbs primal skills are lame to compensate for the OP morai ones, as well as sin OP primal skills compensate lame morai ones.... Meanwhile wizards get OP morai AND primal skills, different than sins and psychics, they don't need to **** blood for a 150m worth of skill to get any of their primals.

i'm really tired of biased assassin threads about "well yea we're balanced"

a wizard to reach the base damage of an elimination needs to 3spark a blade tempest

and all what you bringing here is way off-topic anyways

you are a g15+10 why are you argumenting the endgame PvP you didnt (and most likely wont) experience?

drheal

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

As per what discussed in http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=21492341&posted=1#post21492341

We are therefore requesting to rebalance the other classes DPH-DPS to Elimination Values modifying current skills as:

Wizard:

Frozen Flame

currently:

Channelling Time: 2.0 secs
Cast Time: 1.8 secs

Coooldown: 30 seconds
Chi Gained: 30 chi

Effect:

2 hits for each: 50% base magic damage + 4800 + 400% weapon damage
60% chance to stun for 3 seconds and 80% slow for 6 seconds

---

Frozen Flame suggested rework:

Channelling Time: 0.1 secs (as per Elimination)
Cast Time: 2.5 secs (as per Elimination)

Cooldown: 15 seconds (as per Elimination)
Chi Gained: 30 chi (as per Elimination)

Effect:
4 hits for total 320% base magic damage + 935% weapon damage (as per elimination)
Immobilizes target for 3 seconds, CC effect bypasses Tidal Protection (as per elimination)

---

gogo other Class users post your skill rework suggestions b:pleased

I approve of the wizard skill update.

For now I even stopped PKing, it makes no sense for a lower geared sin to do so much dmg, while I cant stop him with nothing due to the BM and barb broken disable skills.

Sevchenko - Dreamweaver

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

i'm really tired of biased assassin threads about "well yea we're balanced"

a wizard to reach the base damage of an elimination needs to 3spark a blade tempest

and all what you bringing here is way off-topic anyways

you are a g15+10 why are you argumenting the endgame PvP you didnt (and most likely wont) experience?

No, an elimination is far from beating a blade tempest, much further way from 3spark blade tempest.
What I bring here is real maths, go to pwcalc to see how lame an assassin base attack is, you'll see that 320% sin base attack is barely 40% more than a wizard 100% base attack.
I said I do have a g15 +10, never said it was my weapon.

Also, you provide wrong information, frozen flame actually hits for Base + 800% + 9779, its way harder than any elimination could ever reach.

Sevchenko - Dreamweaver

Let's do math if you do still believe wizards are underpowered.

Take into consideration [THIS SIN] and [THIS WIZARD], notice how they're exactly equivalently geared.

First thing you must notice: Both physical defenses are very close, even wiz using magic ring (most pvp wiz use phys ring for extra pdef).

Now to maths:
Wizard's Frozen Flame:
Base damage + 800% weapon + 9779 -> 25172 + 21120 + 9779 = 56071

Assassin's Demon Elimination: (For time comparison, also I find it stronger than sage)
320% base damage + 900% wep (bleed 6s) = 47.001,6 + 17.154 = 64155

So it looks like assassin wins right? Wrong, now lets calculate the wizard hitting the sin against the sin hitting the wizard:

Sin delivers 47001, suffers 85% reduction from wiz defense, thus 7050,15 (split into 5 hits along 2,5s) with an extra 7% damage from att levels: 7543,6 total damage (5 hits along 2,5s). Bleed will hit 2 damages of 1286,5 with 3s interval. (only if the 1st hit does NOT miss).
Total damage dealt: 16294,6 in 6s. Considering crits/zerks
Total DPS = 2715,7

Wizard delivers 56.071, suffers 75% reduction from sin defense, thus 14.017,7 (along 1,4s) with an extra 7% damage from att levels: 14.998,9.
Total Damage dealt: 16798,7 over 1,4s also considering crits.
Total DPS = 11999,0

You may say: Meh, but sin's have zerk and sins have more crits. Yep, that is true. But sins WITH zerk cant out dph/dps wizards, and wizards to crit much too and their crits hit very hard.
Take into consideration wizards can frozen flame form 30m range, while the sin must be at 4,5m range max to hit wizard with his skill, consider also, sin's teleport CD is 15s while distance shrink is 10s only, they have auto teleport buff when attacked, purify spell and they have freezes and stuns so I guess wizards are very balanced with sins you don't have to complain. Clerics are much more vulnerable to sins.

Also,
Assassin's role is to take down key members of enemy team. We don't have range or good AoE power or resistance. While we kill 1, wizards kill 3~5

XXHotXx - Morai

Sevchenko - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Let's do math if you do still believe wizards are underpowered.

Take into consideration [THIS SIN] and [THIS WIZARD], notice how they're exactly equivalently geared.

First thing you must notice: Both physical defenses are very close, even wiz using magic ring (most pvp wiz use phys ring for extra pdef).

Now to maths:
Wizard's Frozen Flame:
Base damage + 800% weapon + 9779 -> 25172 + 21120 + 9779 = 56071

Assassin's Demon Elimination: (For time comparison, also I find it stronger than sage)
320% base damage + 900% wep (bleed 6s) = 47.001,6 + 17.154 = 64155

So it looks like assassin wins right? Wrong, now lets calculate the wizard hitting the sin against the sin hitting the wizard:

Sin delivers 47001, suffers 85% reduction from wiz defense, thus 7050,15 (split into 5 hits along 2,5s) with an extra 7% damage from att levels: 7543,6 total damage (5 hits along 2,5s). Bleed will hit 2 damages of 1286,5 with 3s interval. (only if the 1st hit does NOT miss).
Total damage dealt: 16294,6 in 6s. Considering crits/zerks
Total DPS = 2715,7

Wizard delivers 56.071, suffers 75% reduction from sin defense, thus 14.017,7 (along 1,4s) with an extra 7% damage from att levels: 14.998,9.
Total Damage dealt: 16798,7 over 1,4s also considering crits.
Total DPS = 11999,0

You may say: Meh, but sin's have zerk and sins have more crits. Yep, that is true. But sins WITH zerk cant out dph/dps wizards, and wizards to crit much too and their crits hit very hard.
Take into consideration wizards can frozen flame form 30m range, while the sin must be at 4,5m range max to hit wizard with his skill, consider also, sin's teleport CD is 15s while distance shrink is 10s only, they have auto teleport buff when attacked, purify spell and they have freezes and stuns so I guess wizards are very balanced with sins you don't have to complain. Clerics are much more vulnerable to sins.

Also,
Assassin's role is to take down key members of enemy team. We don't have range or good AoE power or resistance. While we kill 1, wizards kill 3~5

your maths is one hell of wrong... the pwcalcs are not current endgame... that would be kind of truth if you not consider reawakenings and S cards, but the Base Damage of each class skyrocketed with NH features, therefore something that multiplies the base damage and that esponentially increase even more with zerkcrits

its just broken OP

Frozen Flame:

base damage + 800% in 2 hits (50% +50%)

= 30000 + 21000 = 51000 = 25.500 x 2 hits in 1.8 seconds and 2.0 seconds channelling

with average of 30% chance to be double damage

Elimination:
3.2x base damage + 900% in 5 hits (80% + 60% + 60% + 120%)

= (25000 x 3.2) 80000 + 17100 = 97100 = 24200 + 19200 + 19200 + 34200 in 2.5 seconds while target is frozen and no channelling

those hits have 95% chance to be double damage and 19% chance to be 4x damage, if last hit is a zerkcrit anyclass will be just dead

so the damage has 95% chance to be: 48200 + 38400 + 38400 + 68400

and 19% chance to be: 96400 + 76800 + 76800 + 136800

and i dont want to hear bullsh.it about sins having 15k base damage at endgame cause thats mere bullsh.t (900 dex S cards r9r3 +12 are 25k base damage, 15k base damage are ungeared sins with g15 nirvana)

not to mention how the zerkcritted damage will skyrocket if the sin 3sparks the elimination

yesterday in TW i got hit 20k last elimination hit from a deity sin that i outspirit and outgear, while i was hitting him back 3k

yes elimination balanced bro

Sevchenko - Dreamweaver

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

your maths is one hell of wrong... the pwcalcs are not current endgame... that would be kind of truth if you not consider reawakenings and S cards, but the Base Damage of each class skyrocketed with NH features, therefore something that multiplies the base damage and that esponentially increase even more with zerkcrits

its just broken OP

Frozen Flame:

base damage + 800% in 2 hits (50% +50%)

= 30000 + 21000 = 51000 = 25.500 x 2 hits in 1.8 seconds and 2.0 seconds channelling

with average of 30% chance to be double damage

Elimination:
3.2x base damage + 900% in 5 hits (80% + 60% + 60% + 120%)

= (25000 x 3.2) 80000 + 17100 = 97100 = 24200 + 19200 + 19200 + 34200 in 2.5 seconds while target is frozen and no channelling

those hits have 95% chance to be double damage and 19% chance to be 4x damage, if last hit is a zerkcrit anyclass will be just dead

so the damage has 95% chance to be: 48200 + 38400 + 38400 + 68400

and 19% chance to be: 96400 + 76800 + 76800 + 136800

and i dont want to hear bullsh.it about sins having 15k base damage at endgame cause thats mere bullsh.t (900 dex S cards r9r3 +12 are 25k base damage, 15k base damage are ungeared sins with g15 nirvana)

not to mention how the zerkcritted damage will skyrocket if the sin 3sparks the elimination

yesterday in TW i got hit 20k last elimination hit from a deity sin that i outspirit and outgear, while i was hitting him back 3k

yes elimination balanced bro

1st of all, PWCalc doesn't have the current endgame, i set both characters with equivalent gears for calculation purpose. You set assassins base damage as being 25k which I believe isn't possible even with S+ cards, if so, wizards would reach about 40k+ base damage. Whatever cards you set to a sin you could set equivalent cards to a wiz and he would get same amount of defenses and attack (or even more attack and defenses for his buffs/high weapon damage) Also, the 900% part of elimination is dealt as a bleed DoT over 9s (on sage) or 6s (if demon) and does have 3s delay between each damage.

Also, zerks and crits are calculated for EACH and every hit of elimination, don't act as if there was 19% chances of hitting 5 consecutive zerkcrits, because this is nearly impossible.

Also, elimination DOES have a casting time, character is unable to take actions for 2,5s while it's being cast, the freeze only lasts for 3 seconds which is almost the same time as skill's casting.

Also, distance shrink cooldown is 5s shorter than shadow jump, a wizard can easily kite and outrange a sin, even more with arcane defense and purify spell.

Also, there are genies and apos in game, you can use apo/genie before the last hit of elimination.

And still, the wizard would deal much more damage to the sin with frozen flame than the sin to wizard with elimination.

Once again. Assassin's ROLE in the game is to take down a key member of the enemy team., while wizards have power to take down groups of members of the enemy team.

Elimination aids assassin's role, the same way frozen flame aids wizard's role. Assassin's defenses, range, mass combat and supporting are ridiculously poor, individual combat HAS to be a strong spot and that's exactly what they've done. Also, it compensates for the lame morai skills assassins got.

Sevchenko - Dreamweaver

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

yesterday in TW i got hit 20k last elimination hit from a deity sin that i outspirit and outgear, while i was hitting him back 3k

Then I don't think you really outgear him. This or you're a real poor bad mage who don't know to use undine strike+spark.

Or his avatars are better than yours.

Deities = Lots of atk lv = Lots of damage, any class with deities hit hard as hell.

Or maybe the sin just knows to use dew of star protection;

XXHotXx - Morai

you wrote too much nonsense to me so i ll just write reply few words

my aps r9 first cast +12 sin has 18k base physical damage

wizards cant take down large groups at blablabla anymore

undine+spark a sage sin? yea bro especially after primal passives...

i could not even know my class but i have 500 spirit 50k phys res and 120 def levels

and i got a 20k on my full buffs... legit

elimination does in 2.5 seconds, 30 chi gain, 15 secs cooldown, the damage we deal with a 3spark white tea blade tempest

balanced

Jarkhen - Archosaur

Sevchenko - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You set assassins base damage as being 25k which I believe isn't possible even with S+ cards, if so, wizards would reach about 40k+ base damage.

Now, I don't really care about the rest of this topic because it seems like a bunch of pointless bickering, but when I see something blatantly wrong I can't not correct it.

This is a sin friend of mine's phys attack.

5/6 S cards, 1 A (in Destroyer, I believe, so it's patk). No set bonus to boost that patk bonus, either.

Sevchenko - Dreamweaver

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

you wrote too much nonsense to me so i ll just write reply few words

my aps r9 first cast +12 sin has 18k base physical damage

wizards cant take down large groups at blablabla anymore

undine+spark a sage sin? yea bro especially after primal passives...

i could not even know my class but i have 500 spirit 50k phys res and 120 def levels

and i got a 20k on my full buffs... legit

elimination does in 2.5 seconds, 30 chi gain, 15 secs cooldown, the damage we deal with a 3spark white tea blade tempest

balanced

Blade tempest is an AoE you know. We are trying to compare a class specialized on 1v1 combat vs a class of multi-target ranged combat. You can't take the strong spot of a class away like that.

Sins don't have range, resistance, mass-pvp capabilities wiz has. It is balanced, rather you believe or not.

Also, devs overtest skills using fully endgame build characters, they know what they're doing. Sin is supposed to have high individual combat capacity.

If would we do 'balance' as you suggest, we would just remove every class of the game and leave only BMs, that's mathematical balance, but beyond "Equality" there are strong and weak points for every class. Sin's strong spot is on 1v1, wizard's is not.

XXHotXx - Morai

Sevchenko - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Blade tempest is an AoE you know. We are trying to compare a class specialized on 1v1 combat vs a class of multi-target ranged combat. You can't take the strong spot of a class away like that.

Sins don't have range, resistance, mass-pvp capabilities wiz has. It is balanced, rather you believe or not.

Also, devs overtest skills using fully endgame build characters, they know what they're doing. Sin is supposed to have high individual combat capacity.

If would we do 'balance' as you suggest, we would just remove every class of the game and leave only BMs, that's mathematical balance, but beyond "Equality" there are strong and weak points for every class. Sin's strong spot is on 1v1, wizard's is not.

sin strong spot is everything atm, 1on1s, mass pvp and pve
also well i would even trade my blade tempest for a Frozen Flame rework that will put the damage output on pair with elimination
wizard was designed as a slow channelling offtank nuke class, we are not nukers anymore, and we are not offtanks anymore since sins are capable to "one skill knock out" us, even if we outgear them

anyways this thread wasn about argumenting on current assassins unbalance,

but to suggest skill reworks in order to restore at least pvp balance that its currently broken

Sevchenko - Dreamweaver

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

sin strong spot is everything atm, 1on1s, mass pvp and pve
also well i would even trade my blade tempest for a Frozen Flame rework that will put the damage output on pair with elimination
wizard was designed as a slow channelling offtank nuke class, we are not nukers anymore, and we are not offtanks anymore since sins are capable to "one skill knock out" us, even if we outgear them

anyways this thread wasn about argumenting on current assassins unbalance,

but to suggest skill reworks in order to restore at least pvp balance that its currently broken

As I said before, if the sin 1 skill knocks you then he's not so undergeared, also china's purpose for the sin always was a "Nuke DPH anti-mage" class. Also, about that deity sin you mentioned, if his att lvls are higher than your def levels, then you take extra damage instead of damage reduction.

And, i bet he used tangling mire from a high STR genie with double spark from stealth, because I know how wiz's defenses are tough (compared to other casters).

My best tip for you is: Use your apo/genie before the last hit. If the last hit is strong enough and has a delay to happen (means, you can predict it coming), then you're able to counter it.

XXHotXx - Morai

Sevchenko - Dreamweaver wrote: »

As I said before, if the sin 1 skill knocks you then he's not so undergeared, also china's purpose for the sin always was a "Nuke DPH anti-mage" class. Also, about that deity sin you mentioned, if his att lvls are higher than your def levels, then you take extra damage instead of damage reduction.

And, i bet he used tangling mire from a high STR genie with double spark from stealth, because I know how wiz's defenses are tough (compared to other casters).

My best tip for you is: Use your apo/genie before the last hit. If the last hit is strong enough and has a delay to happen (means, you can predict it coming), then you're able to counter it.

as i repeat this thread is not to discuss elimination brokeness...

tangling mire is nerfed as any other debuff is also on full buffs mires p. res. reduction is negligible

if i took 20k from him means any other player in the server would've got 40k+

and the trade is, sin uses a 15 secs cd skill i need to waste genie-apo on it, if i have them down, i am dead

balanced

Eoria - Harshlands

I think wizards are fine atm, tbh. Sins just need toned down, paralyze should probably be resisted by anti-stun, and archers need something of a boost.

Zoldi - Morai

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

and archers need something of a boost.

Why? Recently barbs are pissing me off a little (in mass PVP and especially when there is 2 or more running after me) but the class that I fear the most so far is still EA (I mean the ones with an R9.3 bow b:chuckle)
Maybe because, as I said on another thread, the majority of the best geared people on Morai are archers or maybe because EA are the worst opponent for a mystic (since I know that the game has never been designed for each class having same chance against each other class but more kinda A>B>C>D>A>B>...). Or maybe because the only situation where they are designed to shine is mass PVP, I don't know..

Anyway I can't really imagine any reason why archers would need a boost...

XXHotXx - Morai

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

I think wizards are fine atm, tbh.

wow just no...

for wizard class its like time stopped before NHs improvement-wise, we indeed got nerfs

while almost all other classes got perks

just no, i played wizard for years, and current wizard is worse than pre-NH one

Socqar - Lost City

Zoldi - Morai wrote: »

Why? Recently barbs are pissing me off a little (in mass PVP and especially when there is 2 or more running after me) but the class that I fear the most so far is still EA (I mean the ones with an R9.3 bow b:chuckle)
Maybe because, as I said on another thread, the majority of the best geared people on Morai are archers or maybe because EA are the worst opponent for a mystic (since I know that the game has never been designed for each class having same chance against each other class but more kinda A>B>C>D>A>B>...). Or maybe because the only situation where they are designed to shine is mass PVP, I don't know..

Anyway I can't really imagine any reason why archers would need a boost...

A boost perhaps not when it comes to dmg output, we resigned to be DD's long time ago... Purge indeed helps a lot on DDing, even if we have to rely on it to do some dmg at all xD

But I guess having an ea doing some pew pew from far must freak anyone out due to purge + **** (even if other char helps, it's still a **** xD)...

The problem for us mainly comes with new shiny things, which make us a bit desperate... THis last update brought us nothing we will use in a daily/weekly base, and that is bad news...

Plus we would be glad to have some new deffensive boost, even if it's something related to the Chi cost (demon ea's struggle to get enough chi to use our defences, as they all cost 1 spark to use and awaken has a pretty high cooldown), perhaps a cd reduction a bit on some krey skills... Not really anything game-breaking, we had enough of that already with some news things they added...

A class ment to kite needs to be able to kite, and not rely in 3 sparks or apo to kite whereas casters have purify that allow them 10xourkitinghability

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

wow just no...

for wizard class its like time stopped before NHs improvement-wise, we indeed got nerfs

while almost all other classes got perks

just no, i played wizard for years, and current wizard is worse than pre-NH one

Wizzy's are OP as **, period.







/joke, you were, and people will continue thinking that way for a while... Happened to me until I tested on a r9rr +12 wiz and do the combo, and realize you did half the dmg you used to do... + you can't always land a full combo + Tidal making it imposible to land the combo on sins... You know what I mean pretty much :P Relying on apo, relying on genie, relying on criting....

Azura - Lost City

Most classes have some skill that deals massive damage, at least one.

Blademasters: Well all their skills are mid-level in terms of power, but they have a lot, and even some that ignore defense levels. Reckless rush also does extra damage when opponent's hp is below 40%, and they also got zerk. So they do have their way to deal a lot of damage.

Wizards: Do I need to explain? Spark combo is one, the rest you know it.

Barbarian: If they are strength build, most of their skills hit hard. If they are vit build they still have armageddon. I think this is the only class that can deal a lot of damage even if they go full support.

Venos: Nothing reliable to deal good damage. Only demon venos who didn't learn redstone can do decent damage. Sage venos have nothing I suppose. However to be able to prok demon ironwood, you need to be really lucky. It would be nice if venos had at least one good skill or more reliable combo to increase damage.

Archer: I think they are fine.

Cleric: No opinion, I think they are fine.

Psy: They hit already

Sin: All their skills hit hard.

Seeker: They got combos and zerk.

Mystic: What's a mystic?

So as you see, only venos (and maybe cleric) are the only ones without any skill that hits hard or without a reliable combo. If venos are a support class then, it's an unfinished support class. All they can do to "support" is debuff, amp, and somehow stop opponents from attacking (stun, bewitch, etc.). We don't have any skill that could help eliminate an opponent before the opponent kills an ally. We can't even help our allies survive longer. It's kinda ironic that sins which are supposed to be full offensive class can do more to help survive their allies with their share stealth, than a veno that is supposed to be a support class.

So to venos, either give them better support skills, or change their skills so they are on par with the damage other arcane classes do.

Sevchenko - Dreamweaver

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

as i repeat this thread is not to discuss elimination brokeness...

tangling mire is nerfed as any other debuff is also on full buffs mires p. res. reduction is negligible

if i took 20k from him means any other player in the server would've got 40k+

and the trade is, sin uses a 15 secs cd skill i need to waste genie-apo on it, if i have them down, i am dead

balanced

That sin you mentioned was deities and probably has a lot more atk levels than you have defense levels.

Any archer full deities could hit you much more than that I bet.

Now, the sin also using his genie to take you down, tangle mire+EP or any other combo.

As I do repeat over and over and you ignore: Assassin role is to 'assassinate', his strong spot is 1v1. As for AoEs, seekers and archers hit way stronger than sins with AoE and have much more range.

XXHotXx - Morai

Sevchenko - Dreamweaver wrote: »

That sin you mentioned was deities and probably has a lot more atk levels than you have defense levels.

Any archer full deities could hit you much more than that I bet.

Now, the sin also using his genie to take you down, tangle mire+EP or any other combo.

As I do repeat over and over and you ignore: Assassin role is to 'assassinate', his strong spot is 1v1. As for AoEs, seekers and archers hit way stronger than sins with AoE and have much more range.

nope deity archers hit me 2-4k range on my self buff

Asterelle - Sanctuary

You're forgetting about other sin nonsense like wolfemblem (with 80% base crit it gives around +15% free dps) and new deep chill (+40 attack levels for free, like +25% damage in pvp). These multiply together of course for like 45% more damage. By comparison the +50% fire from archer blazing arrow raises overall damage by around 5%.

Sevchenko - Dreamweaver

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

nope deity archers hit me 2-4k range on my self buff

I'm talking about someone sparked like the sin who hit you.

Im sure the sin who hit you was sparked, tangle mire and extreme poisoned you and you didn't use any apos/genie because you're dull and thought your gears would protect you against a sparked deity r9r3 sin.

Few sins have this skill, not every assassin is r9r3, even less are deity, still most assassins are aps and most doesn't have elimination. If an aps sin attack you with 3 sparked elimination it won't even tickle your 'JoSD golden armor of the drama queen', also, those who have this skill paid at least 150m to have it while none of your skills probably costed more than 20m.

You paid a lot to be a "Endgame" wizard? A deity r9r3 sin did also pay a whole ****ing lot, and he probably knows his class better than you because he used his apos/genie and you just watched.

In my opinion, sins really needed a hard hitting single target skill and good skills to compensate Morai **** skills. If chinas ever realize this skill is over, they will give other classes equivalent power or nerf it if they find necessary.

I do doubt they change anything though, chinese overtest skills on their test servers before launching/changing and their test toons are all fully built r9r3, so if they launched this skills as 'fair' it is probably fair

XXHotXx - Morai

Sevchenko - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I'm talking about someone sparked like the sin who hit you.

Im sure the sin who hit you was sparked, tangle mire and extreme poisoned you and you didn't use any apos/genie because you're dull and thought your gears would protect you against a sparked deity r9r3 sin.

Few sins have this skill, not every assassin is r9r3, even less are deity, still most assassins are aps and most doesn't have elimination. If an aps sin attack you with 3 sparked elimination it won't even tickle your 'JoSD golden armor of the drama queen', also, those who have this skill paid at least 150m to have it while none of your skills probably costed more than 20m.

You paid a lot to be a "Endgame" wizard? A deity r9r3 sin did also pay a whole ****ing lot, and he probably knows his class better than you because he used his apos/genie and you just watched.

In my opinion, sins really needed a hard hitting single target skill and good skills to compensate Morai **** skills. If chinas ever realize this skill is over, they will give other classes equivalent power or nerf it if they find necessary.

I do doubt they change anything though, chinese overtest skills on their test servers before launching/changing and their test toons are all fully built r9r3, so if they launched this skills as 'fair' it is probably fair

3sparked deity archers they are in the 4-6k range

yeah k i am dull sins are balanced, sage tidal and elimination are legit

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver

OP post states an incorrect skill description to begin with anyway.
Your "as per elimination" statements are incorrect as well.

A lot of your posts, in fact, contain incorrect information.

At least get your information right if you're going to complain about something.