Barb vs Sin

Niteshadows - Harshlands

Who would win between an assassin and a barb at end game, both 2nd rb and r9r3.

Cantabrum - Archosaur

depend of persons if barb have skills have high chance of keel the fishie

porphy

A barb should obviously kill an assassin if both are on the same level of skill.

For those who find tackling lock hard, I strongly recommend making either R8r or Nirvana G16 weapon with range add-on to easily control sin's range.

XXHotXx - Morai

actual deity sins are capable of 2shotting a barb from stealth

Aeliah - Dreamweaver

Shouldn't be possible to 2-shot, IF the barb simply puts in auto potter and has defense charm in.

1) the first hit will be blocked by defense charm. If we are talking a zerk crit, its still only gonna do half damage, and it'll be double sparked at best (assuming from stealth) so unlikely that barb will be near half hp (which is necessary for a bypass of any sort). Also, what barb worth his salt sits around unbuffed in human form? Nay, a barb would at the very least be buffed, and probably be waiting in tiger form. To get barb's hp near half in a single hit is just not going to happen.

2) For a barb to be charm bypassed, the sin needs to use subsea strike. This means that the first hit will not be a stun, sleep, or seal. Because of this, the auto potter, if set nice and high as it should be, will pop the 2nd defense charm automatically. This will prevent the barb's charm from being bypassed even if the next hit is also a zerk crit.

So yeah, 2 hits, no, not if the auto potter is set to automatically pop physical defense charms at a high %. Three hits, maaaaybe.

Caveat: There is a very small chance that a sin with the skill elimination, if he gets a zerk crit on the final tick, could bypass the barb's charm on the 2nd hit. The very real danger is, though, that one of the previous 4 hits from elimination will tick the barb's charm, and then the 5th hit will be when barb is at full hp, and no sin is gonna one-shot a barb from stealth (2 spark) without debuffs from other classes.

HESOKA - Raging Tide

Fail sin Vs Fail barb ----> Barb wins.

Average Sin vs Average Barb

---

> Barb wins

Pro sin vs Pro Barb ----> Sin wins.

XXHotXx - Morai

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Shouldn't be possible to 2-shot, IF the barb simply puts in auto potter and has defense charm in.

1) the first hit will be blocked by defense charm. If we are talking a zerk crit, its still only gonna do half damage, and it'll be double sparked at best (assuming from stealth) so unlikely that barb will be near half hp (which is necessary for a bypass of any sort). Also, what barb worth his salt sits around unbuffed in human form? Nay, a barb would at the very least be buffed, and probably be waiting in tiger form. To get barb's hp near half in a single hit is just not going to happen.

2) For a barb to be charm bypassed, the sin needs to use subsea strike. This means that the first hit will not be a stun, sleep, or seal. Because of this, the auto potter, if set nice and high as it should be, will pop the 2nd defense charm automatically. This will prevent the barb's charm from being bypassed even if the next hit is also a zerk crit.

So yeah, 2 hits, no, not if the auto potter is set to automatically pop physical defense charms at a high %. Three hits, maaaaybe.

Caveat: There is a very small chance that a sin with the skill elimination, if he gets a zerk crit on the final tick, could bypass the barb's charm on the 2nd hit. The very real danger is, though, that one of the previous 4 hits from elimination will tick the barb's charm, and then the 5th hit will be when barb is at full hp, and no sin is gonna one-shot a barb from stealth (2 spark) without debuffs from other classes.

that 2 shot happened with a deity sin against josd barb on self buffs in nation wars

i dont think any barb set autopot with PHYS def charms instead of magical ones (and i think that barb doesnt use phys charms at all)

on self buffs everything is possible (especially against sins)

Domethies - Raging Tide

In my experience it depends a maxed out barb will have around 50k hp easy but a sin will only have like 20k ish. Now that barb without a doubt can 1 shot that sin assuming it doesnt have dn on with a simple combo like devour - mighty swing - besital onslught - tangling mire - extremeposion - armageddon. Not exactly 1 shot but you know what i mean b:laugh

As far as sins go, i have never played a sin at end game so ill leave it up to a sin to explain how the sins would win b:chuckle

XXHotXx - Morai

Domethies - Raging Tide wrote: »

In my experience it depends a maxed out barb will have around 50k hp easy but a sin will only have like 20k ish. Now that barb without a doubt can 1 shot that sin assuming it doesnt have dn on with a simple combo like devour - mighty swing - besital onslught - tangling mire - extremeposion - armageddon. Not exactly 1 shot but you know what i mean b:laugh

As far as sins go, i have never played a sin at end game so ill leave it up to a sin to explain how the sins would win b:chuckle

they will win simply because this

devour - mighty swing - tangling mire - extremeposion -

wont work against sage tidal

Cantabrum - Archosaur

HESOKA - Raging Tide wrote: »

Fail sin Vs Fail barb ----> Barb wins.

Average Sin vs Average Barb

---

> Barb wins

Pro sin vs Pro Barb ----> Sin wins.

theres pk barbs omg where make some come archo c:

Doom_Panda - Harshlands

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

they will win simply because this

devour - mighty swing - tangling mire - extremeposion -

wont work against sage tidal

Tidal has a window of 30 seconds that it's off so plenty of time to MS and try to kill the sin.

XXHotXx - Morai

Doom_Panda - Harshlands wrote: »

Tidal has a window of 30 seconds that it's off so plenty of time to MS and try to kill the sin.

uhm ok well prolly you are not talking endgame

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

Bad barb vs bad sin - Barb
Mediocre barb vs mediocre sin - Barb
Decent barb vs decent sin - Battle never ends
Good barb vs good sin - toss up
God barb vs God sin - toss up, probably barb

Rule of thumb: It's probably going to be the barb, although dropping most barbs with DPH is easier than people make it out to be.

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

they will win simply because this

devour - mighty swing - tangling mire - extremeposion -

wont work against sage tidal

Wait wait wait...

You just assumed said sin is sage? He didn't even specify.

Second, I use mire on tidaled sins and it works 90% of the time for me, so come again?

Auerlius - Archosaur

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Wait wait wait...

You just assumed said sin is sage? He didn't even specify.

Second, I use mire on tidaled sins and it works 90% of the time for me, so come again?

you sir, are a fibber.

XXHotXx - Morai

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Wait wait wait...

You just assumed said sin is sage? He didn't even specify.

Second, I use mire on tidaled sins and it works 90% of the time for me, so come again?

its an aoe so you will see the effect popping anytime as long as there are foes around the sin (the same if you try an aoe on someone that is on IG, if there are targets around the aoe will trigger, otherwise it will just fail)

but it will most likely fail to debuff the sin

you cant consider demon sin as a endgame pvp class

demon = aps = pve

well i really want to see all these barbs killing sage sins in 1on1 (i am assuming full +12 vit\josd\deities S cards for both of them)

maybe, if on self buffs, barbs have a chance

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

its an aoe so you will see the effect popping anytime as long as there are foes around the sin (the same if you try an aoe on someone that is on IG, if there are targets around the aoe will trigger, otherwise it will just fail)

but it will most likely fail to debuff the sin

you cant consider demon sin as a endgame pvp class

demon = aps = pve

well i really want to see all these barbs killing sage sins in 1on1 (i am assuming full +12 vit\josd\deities S cards for both of them)

maybe, if on self buffs, barbs have a chance

Name 1 significant difference besides sage tidal which makes demon not viable for PvP
inb4 muh triple spark damage reduction from sage.

Go ahead, tell me what the significant difference is.

XXHotXx - Morai

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Name 1 significant difference besides sage tidal which makes demon not viable for PvP
inb4 muh triple spark damage reduction from sage.

Go ahead, tell me what the significant difference is.

besides sage tidal?

sage tidal IS the ****

demon tidal is legit, sage one breaks the game mechanics lol

barb wont be able to purge\CC\debuff the sin on sage tidal xD

also sage subsea, seen all the debuffs nerf that 50% amp is just the best amp you can land in game after HF

sage earthen,
sage dagger mastery,
purify forced stealth,
deaden nerves with just 60 sec cd mirror,
ELEVEN seconds freeze tackling slash,
sage chill of the deep lol?
inner and rising dr str giving more chi
14 seconds antistun

xD now please explain me your point of how demon assassins are better than sage ones in pvp xD cause i really cant see it

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

besides sage tidal?

sage tidal IS the ****

demon tidal is legit, sage one breaks the game mechanics lol

barb wont be able to purge\CC\debuff the sin on sage tidal xD

also sage subsea, seen all the debuffs nerf that 50% amp is just the best amp you can land in game after HF

sage earthen,
sage dagger mastery,
purify forced stealth,
deaden nerves with just 60 sec cd mirror,
ELEVEN seconds freeze tackling slash,
sage chill of the deep lol?
inner and rising dr str giving more chi
14 seconds antistun

xD now please explain me your point of how demon assassins are better than sage ones in pvp xD cause i really cant see it

I got hit with the new paralyze 3x in a row while fighting a barb WITH SAGE TIDAL!!! So come again? I'm hard of hearing when it comes to bull ****.

Doom_Panda - Harshlands

Fought a Sage sin a few weeks ago and got Stomp's debuff and MS thru Sage Tidal a few times...

XXHotXx - Morai

very luck
much tidal
wow

Nudimmud - Lost City

Sin wins endgame. They have way too many ways to avoid the hits from the barb. On top of tidal they can just as easily force stealth or sleep the barb, etc. Plus, with gear even my +12 r9s3 seeker hits only hit for around 4-5k. normal on NW gear sins. Endgame sins have more than enough hp to tank the few hits I've seen barb get in during these situations.

Also, that new stun requires the barb to be in human, this takes away a lot of their fluffiness and defense.

Most likely the barb goes down in about 15-20 seconds because of new sin skills. I've seen it happen 1v1 full endgame.

Also side note, its funny how its only the same couple people defending the sin side on these debates from what I've noticed.

P.S. If you aren't full endgame and participated in it, you really can't evaluate that level.

P.P.S. I have seen one full endgame barb beat a similar geared sin and that was because he got the new stun off somehow and then armageddon'd the sin after bypassing the charm. Lucky fluffy he was.

Aeliah - Dreamweaver

I think the battle at endgame can still go either way, with a slight advantage to barbs, and here is why.

Why assassin can win
-markedly improved dps with life hunter and elimination
-improved attack level with chill of the deep
-extra stat points = more damage, so more killing power

Why barb can still win
-new amp is spammable, and its quite possible to get it through tidal due to its very low cd; with the skill amp in place, a barb can bypass a sin's charm even easier than before
-new stun = anytime it does cut through tidal, sin has to tank 4 seconds of damage or else blow a good chunk of his genie energy
-extra stat points = more killing power, whether or not the barb puts them into strength (more overall damage) or into vit (more hp, defense, and arma power)

The assassin will win with lucky chains of crits and zerk crits that dps past a barb's charm cd. A barb can win in a similar way via dps (strength build), by also by bypass (strength build and vit build). Because a barb can win by either dps or bypassing, it can be particularly tricky to defend against a barb.

Damage with the primal world patch scaled faster than corresponding defenses. Far from being more difficult than it used to be, a barb should have an equally or even easier time to bypass charm of sin than he used to, especially given that the barb can amp. The new amp compensates for the decreased potency of a high-strength tangling mire. (Note: tree of protection is just as good as it ever was for a truly scary Armageddon).

An assassin does have a killer stun lock, true. However, to claim that immobilize is good enough to keep a good barb from hitting you is just not true. Any barb worth their salt has a +range, spirit blackhole/defense level pole that will allow them to keep attempting to stun and amp (and purge if spirit blackhole) the assassin instead of just tanking the damage till the immobilize is over.

I would say that a strength build barb vs sin will definitely go either way. Both classes will do outrageous damage to each other. However, a vit barb vs an assassin is a battle a sin is almost doomed to lose, or draw. The assassin will struggle to take out a 60k+ hp barb, while the barb just keeps rolling his luck with armageddon, and possibly scaring the sin into using his genie with fake arma attempts. Since a vit barb depends on bypass, though, the vit barb will probably take a lot longer to finish the fight than a str barb would. To kill a full vit barb, a sin requires triple spark combos. Since even a sin can only pull off so many triple spark > subsea combos, a vit barb only needs to defend against triple spark, and is pretty much invulnerable the rest of the time, so its hard to lose as a vit barb.

Quilue - Sanctuary

Well 4-5k normal hits is actually pretty damn good...especially if you zerk or crit or both.

A 50k hp arma might hit about 6k on an unbuffed sin with 100 def levels...but if it zerks it can bypass at ~half.

Damage-wise the barb is not lacking in a self buffed fight. What more often happens is the sin always has a disable ready for when he is almost dead. The barb cannot say the same.

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

Arma reliant barbs are bad. Barb that has serious problems with equal geared sins is bad. Barb vs. sin is an incredibly good test of whether a sin knows how to DD

Cantabrum - Archosaur

dion idk why you waste words on some ppl the major problem is ppl ismentallity weak and tend to dont try debuff sage tidal omg sage tidall QQQ to op better dont try runs away

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

besides sage tidal?

sage tidal IS the ****

demon tidal is legit, sage one breaks the game mechanics lol

barb wont be able to purge\CC\debuff the sin on sage tidal xD

also sage subsea, seen all the debuffs nerf that 50% amp is just the best amp you can land in game after HF
As much as this is true, I rarely see sins use subsea (sadly enough) for me to think it's relevant, maybe there are sins on morai that actually know how to use it

sage earthen,
430% WEAPON DAMAGE instead of 400%, that's such a ginormous difference that it will turn the tide in pvp and will make anyone blink at end-game, oh wait, it wont... slipstream strike even hits hard than this skill, but ok it's an AOE, slip isn't

sage dagger mastery,
One of the most used arguments again ever, people think sage dagger mastery is OMGHAXBBQSUCH HUGE INCREASE ON DAMAGE, it won't make anyone blink either at end-game, although this is a somewhat valid point it's not that much of a difference, it's also where demon wolf emblem comes into play equalling the average out, like it or not.

purify forced stealth,
That's a valid point.

deaden nerves with just 60 sec cd mirror,
it's actually a 30 second window as sage lasts 150 seconds, granted it runs for the entire fight you have, if you can't manage to tick deaden within the 150 seconds in the fight then what are you even doing, tickling with a feather?

ELEVEN seconds freeze tackling slash,
2 seconds of freeze more than demon, where demon will slow you for 11 more seconds after the freeze ends, purify spell and other genie skills will fix this, besides it's not like you can't do anything when you're frozen.

sage chill of the deep lol?
I expected this, 5 whole attack levels more, and that's granted that their daggers also has 5 more attack levels over the demon sin, so nice try but no lol

inner and rising dr str giving more chi
Neglectable in my opinion, inner has a proc chance to do so, although I will admit it is easier for sage to have chi control (since there's also sage wolf emblem every 8 seconds), i'm not sure if it's really that relevant seeing as sins are chi machine's anyway

14 seconds antistun
It's actually 12 because lol PWE can't into translations, so nope

xD now please explain me your point of how demon assassins are better than sage ones in pvp xD cause i really cant see it

responses in cyan.

Demon advantages:
Demon wolf emblem > sage wolf emblem in terms of spike damage, but will be equalled out on average when you take everything into consideration.

Demon shadow teleport as it stuns longer, but with my luck on casters the next hit I do will proc purify spell, such is my luck.

XXHotXx - Morai

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver wrote: »

responses in cyan.

Demon advantages:
Demon wolf emblem > sage wolf emblem in terms of spike damage, but will be equalled out on average when you take everything into consideration.

Demon shadow teleport as it stuns longer, but with my luck on casters the next hit I do will proc purify spell, such is my luck.

well, to all the cyan points, might be little advantages but still advantages are

what everyone didnt experience yet prolly is the fact that while the barb will struggle and try and try harder to land CCs and debuffs trought tidal
or tick target deaden nerves trough tidal , or try to use that 30 sec mirrors when sin has tidal down or dn down (but usually they will just stealth, kite, apo, genie)

the sin will be stunlocking the barb while dishing out the best dps bursts available in game... and cursed jail and elimination are actually CCs (roflmao gg devs)

endgame sins wont die in mass pvp, i wont see how they will die in 1on1 scenarios (they have to be really poor skilled)

just check rinc bait rico do you even see them dieing once even if they have entire teams focusing them?

then how are they gonna die in 1on1?

Domethies - Raging Tide

Oh i just remembered, once there was a sin whos dn had just wore off, mighy swing had dropped him to about 1/3 of his hp then a zerk crit from bestial onslaught just killed him b:chuckle

when a sins defence goes down, it really is down b:victory

LostPoet - Dreamweaver

Hard to say.

If luck is on the side of the Sin early on, then the Sin could win. Assuming he can get off those Zerk+Crits.

The Barb, with much greater survivability than the sin, should be able to last out the fight much longer then the Sin can survive, so if the Barb gets some stop zerks off, the barb would win.

But if neither are lucky early on, the Sin, in my opinion is more likely to win later into the fight as the probability for Sin to get the Zerk+Crits while spark is a lot higher because they can generate Chi like machines.

b:victory

Toraah - Archosaur

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

they will win simply because this

devour - mighty swing - tangling mire - extremeposion -

wont work against sage tidal

any good barb would camp tiger/panda form until the sins tidal runs out, then attack using status effect skills