lvl difference and dmg ?

WannaBM - Archosaur
WannaBM - Archosaur Posts: 1,984 Arc User
edited April 2014 in General Discussion
This page shows that you get 10% less dmg from targets 3 or more levels below you. Does this also count for PvP ?

If so, does it calculate from your current level or the highest level you have been in any of your incarnations ?

And if your current level is 105, i assume they made it so your demon book still gets exp to level old incarnations ?
Everything i write is from PvE perspective unless mentioned otherwise.
Post edited by WannaBM - Archosaur on

Comments

  • Lolgasmic - Raging Tide
    Lolgasmic - Raging Tide Posts: 1,315 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »
    This page shows that you get 10% less dmg from targets 3 or more levels below you. Does this also count for PvP ?
    Yes.
    WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »
    If so, does it calculate from your current level or the highest level you have been in any of your incarnations ?
    Original level.
    WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »
    And if your current level is 105, i assume they made it so your demon book still gets exp to level old incarnations ?
    [Citation Needed]
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Barbarian 103 - 101 - 101
    Started playing on March 2010
  • Sevchenko - Dreamweaver
    Sevchenko - Dreamweaver Posts: 661 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Lolgasmic - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Yes.

    Original level.

    [Citation Needed]

    I do think the damage reduction is based on current level instead, i remember hitting for a ridiculous damage on FC mobs until I hit 88 while Rb.
    [S.E.V.C.H.E.N.K.O]
    Synthetic Electronic Variant Calibrated for Hazardous Exploration, Nullification and Kamikaze Observation[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • SylenThunder - Twilight Temple
    SylenThunder - Twilight Temple Posts: 7,908
    edited April 2014
    It's based on current toon level, and not your historic level.

    When you're figuring it in PvP, you also have to count Atk and Dev levels in it.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Jaabg - Sanctuary
    Jaabg - Sanctuary Posts: 2,256 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »
    And if your current level is 105, i assume they made it so your demon book still gets exp to level old incarnations ?

    I am interested in knowing this as well. At present it makes more sense to lvl your rb2 character to 105 first, for pvp things. Not having reached 105, not sure what happens to the exp bar.
  • Temptatio/V - Dreamweaver
    Temptatio/V - Dreamweaver Posts: 301 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »
    It's based on current toon level, and not your historic level.

    When you're figuring it in PvP, you also have to count Atk and Dev levels in it.

    Where I can find conformation of this? For me it makes more sense that its based on your original lvl. I was wandering about this myself.
    Can you provide me with some proof for this?
  • DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver
    DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,355 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »
    This page shows that you get 10% less dmg from targets 3 or more levels below you. Does this also count for PvP ?

    Yes, this has always been the case which is why the lazy PvPer's would only get to lvl 103 as then they suffer no reductions vs 105s.
    WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »
    If so, does it calculate from your current level or the highest level you have been in any of your incarnations ?

    It's quite easy to prove this is based on your current lvl, when you reawakened and went into FC there was a massive damage nerf which wouldn't have happened if it was based on your highest historic level. This doesn't change PvE/PvP so the same applies and anyone that entered NW at lvl 70ish can attest to this, I mean without that buff that gave them stupid high attack/def lvls, even then their damage output was still being nerfed they were just tanky as hell if jades build.

    Stealth/detection level is however based on your highest historic level.
    WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »
    And if your current level is 105, i assume they made it so your demon book still gets exp to level old incarnations ?

    NO. (caps intended)

    Be very careful about doing this, there are stories of players on PWCN doing this (leveling current level to 105 then trying to level historic lvls) what happened is that they got to 105 on current level and then the demon book shut down and they couldn't level their old levels....

    Unless a GM confirms this has been fixed for us, (and probably even then) I would stick to leveling them to 105 in order. As soon as a level hits 105 the book closes that 'chapter'.

    I am 105-103-102 atm, I plan on going 105-105-102 then 105-105-105.
    DarkSkiesx - Demon Archer
    mypers.pw/1.7/#114350

    DarkSeasx - Sage Assassin
    mypers.pw/1.7/#136481

    youtube.com/darkskiesx
    Tempest-dw.shivtr.com
  • Lolgasmic - Raging Tide
    Lolgasmic - Raging Tide Posts: 1,315 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    The damage is not nerfed.


    OP said PK not PvE

    If you guys went into FC then you would know your damage on bosses was higher than on mobs.

    From what I experienced, the only nerf came from lack of attribute points.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Barbarian 103 - 101 - 101
    Started playing on March 2010
  • WannaBM - Archosaur
    WannaBM - Archosaur Posts: 1,984 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I doubt it comes from atribute points alone. I think the difference was bigger than that, and it evaporated fast when i level 70-80-90. That cant be from just a few stat points. The level clearly had its effect in reborn FC.

    Of course the difference was not there on bosses. That is because we already do 25% dmg to bosses which is the bottom cap. So this in fact supports the claim that level difference is shown in effect here. Is it safe to assume it is indeed the same for PvP and PvE ?

    Thanx everyone !
    Everything i write is from PvE perspective unless mentioned otherwise.
  • Temptatio/V - Dreamweaver
    Temptatio/V - Dreamweaver Posts: 301 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver wrote: »

    I am 105-103-102 atm, I plan on going 105-105-102 then 105-105-105.

    So..if everything is based on current lvl isn't there more sense in going for:

    105-103-104....105-105-104 before 105-105-105?
  • DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver
    DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,355 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Temptatio/V - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    So..if everything is based on current lvl isn't there more sense in going for:

    105-103-104....105-105-104 before 105-105-105?

    Exp gain is based on current lvl so slower at 104 than at 102.

    Also most people on DW seem to be staying lvl 100 and lvling historic lvls so the PvP damage reduction isn't too much of a concern.

    And also going from 103-104 gives 14 attribute points on historic level but going 102-104 on current level only gives 10 attribute points. Hence why I'm prioritising historic levels.
    DarkSkiesx - Demon Archer
    mypers.pw/1.7/#114350

    DarkSeasx - Sage Assassin
    mypers.pw/1.7/#136481

    youtube.com/darkskiesx
    Tempest-dw.shivtr.com
  • WannaBM - Archosaur
    WannaBM - Archosaur Posts: 1,984 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    The value of the extra statpoints from historic level is insignificant even to just the chance of receiving 10% less dmg in pvp. If they are staying level 100, it is all that much more of a concern ! you actually have a chance of them all doing 10% less dmg and you only need to be 103

    95% of my exp comes from PV.
    I believe the PV 100 mobs are lvl 105.
    In that case you would be getting 5% bonus exp if youre level 102 or less. 103 or 104 doesnt matter
    Everything i write is from PvE perspective unless mentioned otherwise.
  • Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear
    Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear Posts: 384 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »
    This page shows that you get 10% less dmg from targets 3 or more levels below you. Does this also count for PvP ?

    It is one of the oldest myth in pwi.

    A lot of people are under the impression that:
    1. Being lower lvl reduces the damage done to your opponent. e.g people are rushing to 105, thinking they would get 10% reduction to anything below 103.
    2. Being the same level of higher level than your opponent, give you full damage (no damage reduction) when attacking. e.g people stopping at lvl103, because they think they get full damage on anything lvl105's or lower.

    Both are not true.

    The 10% damage reduction from 3 lvl difference only applies to pve, not pvp. Low levels deals lower damage; but it is due to a different set of rules that applies in pvp.
    physical reduction% = physical defence / ( ( 40 * attacker level ) + physical defence - 25 )

    The implications are as follows:
    1. Being higher level does not give any damage reduction.
    e.g
    If you have 10k pdef at lvl100, you will have 71.56% damage reduction against a lvl100 opponent
    If you have 10k pdef at lvl105, you will still have 71.56% damage reduction against that same opponent.

    2. Being higher level, actually gives damage penetration.
    e.g
    At lvl100, your damage will be reduced by 71.56% against an opponent with 10k pdef
    At lvl103, your damage will be reduced by 70.95% against an opponent with 10k pdef (~2.1% more damage)
    At lvl105, your damage will be reduced by 70.55% against an opponent with 10k pdef (~3.5% more damage)

    If you want to check out the formula by yourself, do it with your alts. I have no idea if those applies to reborns or not
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver
    DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,355 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »
    The value of the extra statpoints from historic level is insignificant even to just the chance of receiving 10% less dmg in pvp. If they are staying level 100, it is all that much more of a concern ! you actually have a chance of them all doing 10% less dmg and you only need to be 103

    95% of my exp comes from PV.
    I believe the PV 100 mobs are lvl 105.
    In that case you would be getting 5% bonus exp if youre level 102 or less. 103 or 104 doesnt matter

    Yes 5% bonus at 102 or lower, a considerable amount over the 3bn exp required.

    Due to me having high weapon attack, the extra dex gives very good returns on patt. (destroyer card +700 patt Battle +500 patt).

    Not everyone is 100, there's a mixture of 101/102 so not really worth losing the 5% bonus for, and psychologically I'd rather use the 553m exp to get 104 on historic, considering I got 105 on 1st historic only a month ago I'm trying to keep the momentum going. I have a friend providing openers so he bugs me to get them done which really helps.
    DarkSkiesx - Demon Archer
    mypers.pw/1.7/#114350

    DarkSeasx - Sage Assassin
    mypers.pw/1.7/#136481

    youtube.com/darkskiesx
    Tempest-dw.shivtr.com
  • WannaBM - Archosaur
    WannaBM - Archosaur Posts: 1,984 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    thanx magni.

    Isnt it nice when everyone agrees ? b:laugh
    Everything i write is from PvE perspective unless mentioned otherwise.
  • Temptatio/V - Dreamweaver
    Temptatio/V - Dreamweaver Posts: 301 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »
    thanx magni.

    Isnt it nice when everyone agrees ? b:laugh

    b:surrender now Im even more confused
  • Socqar - Lost City
    Socqar - Lost City Posts: 511 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Temptatio/V - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    b:surrender now Im even more confused

    To sum up... don't rush to 103 to avoid any dmg reduction, rush to 105 to avoid it, but beware it's not a 10%, it's way less than that.

    Plus remember to keep your current lvl low if you want to be faster on going historics to 105 (at least don't go over 102 if you want to still get nice boost from PV).

    Anyway, just go 3x105... just "dat easy". The biggest change to me on lvling though is the capability of using those NW pots... 1h perma-buff given by 105 lvl pots is just insane and makes it nearly imposible to fight (TW - NW) against an equaly geared char if you're 101 and he's 105
  • WannaBM - Archosaur
    WannaBM - Archosaur Posts: 1,984 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Yes 5% bonus at 102 or lower, a considerable amount over the 3bn exp required.

    Due to me having high weapon attack, the extra dex gives very good returns on patt. (destroyer card +700 patt Battle +500 patt).

    Not everyone is 100, there's a mixture of 101/102 so not really worth losing the 5% bonus for, and psychologically I'd rather use the 553m exp to get 104 on historic, considering I got 105 on 1st historic only a month ago I'm trying to keep the momentum going. I have a friend providing openers so he bugs me to get them done which really helps.

    Well the thing is suppose you come from 102/102/102 and you make the choise to go for 104/102/102 or 102/102/104. (because 105 stops exp)

    You gain either 10 or 24 points. So 14 points difference.
    15 dex = 0.1 dmg multiplier. You already have about x6 multiplier so that is 1.67 % extra dmg. The crit adds another 0.5% or so for 2.2% total.

    That seems to be comparable to the numbers Magnanimous just posted for the defence penetration. So we got 3 factors here:

    1) Stat points favor you leveling your historic level by a small percentage as shown above (2.2% for 102-104)
    2) Armor penetration favors current level by an equally small percentage, if this is indeed based on current level.
    3) the 10% factor may be a myth as reported by Magnanimous

    Meaning 1 and 2 would roughly even out and it would not matter what you level first. If indeed the infor magna provided is correct and 2) is based on current level, and 3) is a myth.

    While i value all the imput given, the differnt data coming from everyone makes me hope Astrelle could answer this thread and tell us who is right. Yes astrelle, i greatly respect your knowledge and only if you clear it up, i wont feel the need to test it all for myself someday :)
    Everything i write is from PvE perspective unless mentioned otherwise.
  • Temptatio/V - Dreamweaver
    Temptatio/V - Dreamweaver Posts: 301 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Socqar - Lost City wrote: »
    To sum up... don't rush to 103 to avoid any dmg reduction, rush to 105 to avoid it, but beware it's not a 10%, it's way less than that.

    Plus remember to keep your current lvl low if you want to be faster on going historic to 105 (at least don't go over 102 if you want to still get nice boost from PV).

    Anyway, just go 3x105... just "dat easy". The biggest change to me on lvling though is the capability of using those NW pots... 1h perma-buff given by 105 lvl pots is just insane and makes it nearly impossible to fight (TW - NW) against an equaly geared char if you're 101 and he's 105

    thx for sum although its not helping with decidion....If I want to lvl faster my historical lvl need to leave current lvl on 102...but staying on 102 current is not good for pvp...also AEU gives significantly better exp on higher lvl....sigh
  • Socqar - Lost City
    Socqar - Lost City Posts: 511 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Temptatio/V - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    thx for sum although its not helping with decidion....If I want to lvl faster my historical lvl need to leave current lvl on 102...but staying on 102 current is not good for pvp...also AEU gives significantly better exp on higher lvl....sigh

    Current 102 influence on PVP is not that huge nowadays as many ppl keeps it low... But I missed that about AEU giving more exp the higher you are (100+). Could be useful to know how much exactly, I have like 100+ tokens to run AEU saved U.U
  • Temptatio/V - Dreamweaver
    Temptatio/V - Dreamweaver Posts: 301 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Socqar - Lost City wrote: »
    Current 102 influence on PVP is not that huge nowadays as many ppl keeps it low... But I missed that about AEU giving more exp the higher you are (100+). Could be useful to know how much exactly, I have like 100+ tokens to run AEU saved U.U

    Rewards:
    @ 100 - 800k exp, 180k spirit, 10 influence
    @ 101 - 1.3 mil xp, 180k spirit, 10 influence
    @ 102 - 1.8 mil xp, 180k spirit, 10 influence
    @ 103 - 2.3 mil xp, 180k spirit, 10 influence
    @ 104 - 2.8 mil xp, 180k spirit, 10 influence

    not bad exp plus free apo and chance for books and gems
  • Socqar - Lost City
    Socqar - Lost City Posts: 511 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Temptatio/V - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Rewards:
    @ 100 - 800k exp, 180k spirit, 10 influence
    @ 101 - 1.3 mil xp, 180k spirit, 10 influence
    @ 102 - 1.8 mil xp, 180k spirit, 10 influence
    @ 103 - 2.3 mil xp, 180k spirit, 10 influence
    @ 104 - 2.8 mil xp, 180k spirit, 10 influence

    not bad exp plus free apo and chance for books and gems

    That's good info indeed ^^

    Perhaps the middle-point of going 102 on current lvl is the smartest? Less pvp nerf than 100, no exp loss in PV compared to 100, and significant boost on exp from AEU...

    Then depending if you run more AEU or more PV to go up to 103 and 104 or staying at 102, but seems there's no point to stay at 100 after reawakening aparto from point-efficiency perhaps?
  • WannaBM - Archosaur
    WannaBM - Archosaur Posts: 1,984 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    102 is definately good.
    Up to 102, the reward of your current level is still similar to leveling your original level up to 102 and the stat points per exp are much better than leveling your old incarnations.

    Stat wise the best thing would be in this order:

    102-102-102
    103-103-102
    104-104-102
    105-105-102
    105-105-105
    Everything i write is from PvE perspective unless mentioned otherwise.
  • DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver
    DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,355 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »
    102 is definately good.
    Up to 102, the reward of your current level is still similar to leveling your original level up to 102 and the stat points per exp are much better than leveling your old incarnations.

    Stat wise the best thing would be in this order:

    102-102-102
    103-103-102
    104-104-102
    105-105-102
    105-105-105

    That's pretty much what I've done/am doing with the only exception I leveled my 1st historic to 105 early so I could ab(use) the 105 NW wines.

    I think I posted in one the threads way back when Horizons came out a stat point/xp efficiency table which is probably how you arrived at the same conclusion.
    DarkSkiesx - Demon Archer
    mypers.pw/1.7/#114350

    DarkSeasx - Sage Assassin
    mypers.pw/1.7/#136481

    youtube.com/darkskiesx
    Tempest-dw.shivtr.com
  • WannaBM - Archosaur
    WannaBM - Archosaur Posts: 1,984 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    That's pretty much what I've done/am doing with the only exception I leveled my 1st historic to 105 early so I could ab(use) the 105 NW wines.

    I think I posted in one the threads way back when Horizons came out a stat point/xp efficiency table which is probably how you arrived at the same conclusion.

    Ye that might be where i got that info from b:pleased
    Everything i write is from PvE perspective unless mentioned otherwise.
  • Metalogue - Archosaur
    Metalogue - Archosaur Posts: 320 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Stay at 102 current, save your AEU tokens until you're 105-105-104. I'm not sure why people stay at 100 or even 102 on their second rebirth. Barring random quest mobs, you won't get nerfed xp in many places, and especially 101, it's such a minuscule amount of XP. You do gain the extra HP per level on your current level, as well as soulforce, though not sure if that would beat the point efficiency.

    About leveling to 105 current before leveling historicals, I can definitely see the book shutting down and being unable to level historicals. b:shocked No idea why anybody would want this though - NW pots, stealth/detection level, nerfed XP at 103+, extra attributes from historicals... as others have said, 102 is fine.


    I've been saving up the AEU tokens and now that I'm 105-105-104 at like 55.5%, I'm spamming that after PV every other day or so when I see a squad for it. good stuff.
  • Lolgasmic - Raging Tide
    Lolgasmic - Raging Tide Posts: 1,315 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Metalogue - Archosaur wrote: »
    Stay at 102 current, save your AEU tokens until you're 105-105-104. I'm not sure why people stay at 100 or even 102 on their second rebirth. Barring random quest mobs, you won't get nerfed xp in many places, and especially 101, it's such a minuscule amount of XP. You do gain the extra HP per level on your current level, as well as soulforce, though not sure if that would beat the point efficiency.

    About leveling to 105 current before leveling historicals, I can definitely see the book shutting down and being unable to level historicals. b:shocked No idea why anybody would want this though - NW pots, stealth/detection level, nerfed XP at 103+, extra attributes from historicals... as others have said, 102 is fine.


    I've been saving up the AEU tokens and now that I'm 105-105-104 at like 55.5%, I'm spamming that after PV every other day or so when I see a squad for it. good stuff.

    Curiously, how many base points do you have in each attribute?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Barbarian 103 - 101 - 101
    Started playing on March 2010
  • Metalogue - Archosaur
    Metalogue - Archosaur Posts: 320 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Lolgasmic - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Curiously, how many base points do you have in each attribute?

    After taking all of my gear off, including my cards, I have 3 vit, 3 magic, 18 strength, and 663 dex without any gear.

    145 vit, 48 magic, 105 strength, and 912 dex with gear.
  • Socqar - Lost City
    Socqar - Lost City Posts: 511 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Metalogue - Archosaur wrote: »
    After taking all of my gear off, including my cards, I have 3 vit, 3 magic, 18 strength, and 663 dex without any gear.

    145 vit, 48 magic, 105 strength, and 912 dex with gear.

    Dahell of cards... xD 950 dex or gtfo.... I'm happy to reach 750 U.U
  • Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary
    Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary Posts: 3,034 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Metalogue - Archosaur wrote: »
    After taking all of my gear off, including my cards, I have 3 vit, 3 magic, 18 strength, and 663 dex without any gear.

    145 vit, 48 magic, 105 strength, and 912 dex with gear.

    Curious, has any1 reached 1k pure stats yet, provided that you can still wear all the gear? b:chuckle
    [SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=14516063001&dateline=1364756666[/SIGPIC] Ty Silvy :)
  • Metalogue - Archosaur
    Metalogue - Archosaur Posts: 320 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    It's definitely do-able. I've only got g15 helm/cape due to chienkuns and keeping gems blahblah, and only one of my cards give str/dex of 10. If I had the extra 5 from being 105, another 50 from cards, the extra from g16, dual str/dex engraves on rings, triple str/dex on neck... I've got 11 str + 10 dex + 10 vit on my neck, and each ring has 11 and 10 str. So it's definitely possible. It would also depend on the dex on somebodys' weapon and armor too though.

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