Sage vs Demon in PVE ONLY

Myai - Heavens Tear

I keep finding all of these threads and guides about why Demon or Sage is better because this and this about killing other players. I have and always will be a 97% PvE player. PvPing will really only be in duels or an occasional which i prefer on my Veno or Cleric anyways. And not to mention that most of the threads that are about PvE are from years ago and way too outdated. b:surrender

So considering only the PvE side of things and throwing out all of the PvP considerations out the window, which is better: Sage or Demon for only PvE?

I love going FFing. Or FCing which I think some servers call it. The Frostcovered City is like a second home. Would Sage or Demon skills be better here? I'd be in a party so which is better for group support in AoE scenarios? And later in the lvl 100 squads with BHs and FBs and the other relatively new instances out there; which Cultivation would enhance my Archer better: Sage or Demon?

I know we don't really Zhen anymore, but for a scenario like that, which would be better? Not to mention the new Frost Splash, which I don't think is affected by Cultivation choices, but could still be incorporated into a mass AoE attack and enhance the following AoE skill choices.

I have a Sin for soloing bosses for drops and a Veno for soloing TT and the occasional PvP. My Archer would then assume something that those wouldn't do. Damage and AoE support in group scenarios. Things that Archers who don't pay a a thousand dollars to get the best gear possible and are able to solo the hardest thing in the game... What those normal, good, team-playing archers do. Which would be better for that?

Not to mention the new Reawakened skills. They combine Sage/Demon skills into one. Would getting the Reawakened skills nerf or enhance my Cultivation decision depending on where I go? Because I plan on reawakening my Archer as well, of course!

Hypothetically: Would a Sage or Demon get a Boss from 1,000,000,000 HP to 0 HP Faster? Using all possible skills that the Archer could get with Demon or Sage. Sparks and Skills. Everything at disposal.

Even if it is hypothetically possible to make one stronger than the other; which one is cheaper and/or easier to obtain power for? Not a budget of 1,000,000 coins but also not a budget of 1,000,000,000,000 coins either. I want my Archer to be strong but I also don't want her to have a goal that is unobtainable.

I am sorry for the intense questionnaire. I just want to make the right choice for the way I play, not the way other people play their Archers.

b:shutup

ToyMaker_NOT - Raging Tide

In a nutshell,

Sage increase % of getting chi from skill + reduce chi cost to cast.

or

Demon increase % of crit rate and reduce cool down.


But to be absolutely honest, if you are endgame gear, mainly doing PvE, and more importantly KNOW YOUR CLASS, it really does not matter.

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver

Hello, I'll take a stab at your questionnaire!

Myai - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I keep finding all of these threads and guides about why Demon or Sage is better because this and this about killing other players. I have and always will be a 97% PvE player. PvPing will really only be in duels or an occasional which i prefer on my Veno or Cleric anyways. And not to mention that most of the threads that are about PvE are from years ago and way too outdated. b:surrender

The reason for this is honestly there's not a lot of end game interest in PvE. There was when everyone was still progressing through their levels but now most people are 100+ and exploring PvP more. Most of the PvE content hasn't been updated for ages and we have had a surge in attack levels and defences to the point where it honestly makes little difference between sage/demon.

Also nowadays they have rebalanced the sage/demon for Archers very very closely that the difference between the two really comes down to play style and is more apparent in PvP than in PvE.

Myai - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So considering only the PvE side of things and throwing out all of the PvP considerations out the window, which is better: Sage or Demon for only PvE?

Ok let's look at your questions.

Myai - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I love going FFing. Or FCing which I think some servers call it. The Frostcovered City is like a second home. Would Sage or Demon skills be better here? I'd be in a party so which is better for group support in AoE scenarios? And later in the lvl 100 squads with BHs and FBs and the other relatively new instances out there; which Cultivation would enhance my Archer better: Sage or Demon?

I actually was an APS archer during these levels I had -int gears and fists, DPS output was higher for bosses and below 100 you don't get many gear set bonuses so unless you have a well refined bow I'd advice the same. You will likely progress through this stage so fast that I wouldn't recommend allowing this to affect your decision. If I had to pick one I'd say demon for the higher burst DPS.

Myai - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I know we don't really Zhen anymore, but for a scenario like that, which would be better? Not to mention the new Frost Splash, which I don't think is affected by Cultivation choices, but could still be incorporated into a mass AoE attack and enhance the following AoE skill choices.

Again due to how similar the two are and how rare this is that anyone zhen's I wouldn't let this affect your decision. If I had to offer an opinion I'd say sage for the faster chi regen and the damage reduction whilst BOAing. Also sage archers would be unlikely to obtain Frost splash due to sage Frost Arrow being more useful.

Myai - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I have a Sin for soloing bosses for drops and a Veno for soloing TT and the occasional PvP. My Archer would then assume something that those wouldn't do. Damage and AoE support in group scenarios. Things that Archers who don't pay a a thousand dollars to get the best gear possible and are able to solo the hardest thing in the game... What those normal, good, team-playing archers do. Which would be better for that?

Sage STA is better at 20%, also the debuffs from Sage Stormrage are very nice for group scenarios, in terms of AOEs both are pretty strong with demon boa doing more damage over time but sage boa hitting slightly harder per hit.

Myai - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Not to mention the new Reawakened skills. They combine Sage/Demon skills into one. Would getting the Reawakened skills nerf or enhance my Cultivation decision depending on where I go? Because I plan on reawakening my Archer as well, of course!

Primal skills - every archer should get the Kiss of Snake, Winged Shell is optional, Frost Splash (only if Demon), and ignore Feather Armageddon.

Myai - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Hypothetically: Would a Sage or Demon get a Boss from 1,000,000,000 HP to 0 HP Faster? Using all possible skills that the Archer could get with Demon or Sage. Sparks and Skills. Everything at disposal.

Demon has higher DPS output due to increase APS from demon spark giving more DPS than the Sage spark, also demon QS in between sparks combined with cloud eruption/white tea/awaken you could maintain a near constant triple spark with small amounts of downtime. I'm happy to see math from anyone that thinks otherwise.

Myai - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Even if it is hypothetically possible to make one stronger than the other; which one is cheaper and/or easier to obtain power for? Not a budget of 1,000,000 coins but also not a budget of 1,000,000,000,000 coins either. I want my Archer to be strong but I also don't want her to have a goal that is unobtainable.

The cultivation choice matters little for PvE gears, both are advised to farm full G16 LA from Warsong, farm full Incomparable HP shards from the weeklies, pdef cube neck (PvE), pdef rings, could go for a mdef warsong belt I suppose.

Myai - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I am sorry for the intense questionnaire. I just want to make the right choice for the way I play, not the way other people play their Archers.

b:shutup

Overall my advice would be look at the 100+ situations more than FC and <100.

Archers are awesome \o/

angellicdeity

Myai - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I keep finding all of these threads and guides about why Demon or Sage is better because this and this about killing other players. I have and always will be a 97% PvE player. PvPing will really only be in duels or an occasional which i prefer on my Veno or Cleric anyways. And not to mention that most of the threads that are about PvE are from years ago and way too outdated. b:surrender

You really can't avoid PvP unless you're rich (have 1,000,000,000+ coins to spend). There isn't enough end-game PvE content to keep you interested. If you're in it for the PvE, you will find that you're doing a bunch of chores (dailies) for no particular reason. Eventually you'll be asked to grind out billions of experience points - with which you have zero motivation.

Myai - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Even if it is hypothetically possible to make one stronger than the other; which one is cheaper and/or easier to obtain power for? Not a budget of 1,000,000 coins but also not a budget of 1,000,000,000,000 coins either. I want my Archer to be strong but I also don't want her to have a goal that is unobtainable.

The secret about having a cheap archer is you need to PvP. Nation Wars (PvP) are essential to gearing an archer. If you're not geared or properly statted and skilled for Nation Wars you're in for a very expensive ride. For example, you can spend 360,000,000 to buy Seal's of War from other players, or spend 72,000,000 farming them yourself.

That said you do need to get past the expensive part - having the minimum amount of gear to actually participate in NW's.




At any rate neither is really better than the other. At the end of the day you have to pick one and commit to it. The moment you're second guessing your choice (the grass is greener on the other side), you are on the way to quitting this game. It's expensive to acquire all your demon/sage skills. To make a switch is huge in terms of the time and coins you loose.

That is why you see people furiously defending the merits of sages or demons. To admit the grass is greener pretty much tells you that someone is going to be quitting sometime this year.

Myai - Heavens Tear

Thank you both for the input! I still have a few levels to finish deliberating and the info you guys gave me will help me have an answer by the time I reach 89. b:thanks

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

PVE = Demon

Cut out that support ****; in PVE at least you are dps. In this age of anti aps bosses Demon R9rr archer is the best dps there is until you pull the boss (lel). You dish out damage. You go demon for demon spark in PVE and demon QS between sparks.

Bosses

You will learn to use chi wisely so that you can BV -> 3spark Stunning Arrow -> 3Spark STA and by the end of the 2nd spark boss better be dead. If it's not demon QS and if proc -> autoattack and if not-> instant take aim -> QS again

Pulls:

Demon Barrage deals more damage than sage Barrage. End of story. You barrage in BB anyways. Any sort of solo barrage means you better have the gear to survive it anyways. Demons actually get to use Frost Splash.

Misc

Demon Wingspan gives an abuse-able shield. Bosses hate this. Demon Wingspan shield blocks a hit from Hexhead rider circles. Demon wingspan shield makes me take 35 damage from each group of 3 water mobs as they come in. Demon wingspan shield makes me take 80 damage period from each wood mob. Demon wingspan is the **** because

"Lord of Captivation deals 358 damage"

XShadowshotx - Heavens Tear

Myai - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I keep finding all of these threads and guides about why Demon or Sage is better because this and this about killing other players. I have and always will be a 97% PvE player. PvPing will really only be in duels or an occasional which i prefer on my Veno or Cleric anyways. And not to mention that most of the threads that are about PvE are from years ago and way too outdated. b:surrender

So considering only the PvE side of things and throwing out all of the PvP considerations out the window, which is better: Sage or Demon for only PvE?

I love going FFing. Or FCing which I think some servers call it. The Frostcovered City is like a second home. Would Sage or Demon skills be better here? I'd be in a party so which is better for group support in AoE scenarios? And later in the lvl 100 squads with BHs and FBs and the other relatively new instances out there; which Cultivation would enhance my Archer better: Sage or Demon?

I know we don't really Zhen anymore, but for a scenario like that, which would be better? Not to mention the new Frost Splash, which I don't think is affected by Cultivation choices, but could still be incorporated into a mass AoE attack and enhance the following AoE skill choices.

I have a Sin for soloing bosses for drops and a Veno for soloing TT and the occasional PvP. My Archer would then assume something that those wouldn't do. Damage and AoE support in group scenarios. Things that Archers who don't pay a a thousand dollars to get the best gear possible and are able to solo the hardest thing in the game... What those normal, good, team-playing archers do. Which would be better for that?

Not to mention the new Reawakened skills. They combine Sage/Demon skills into one. Would getting the Reawakened skills nerf or enhance my Cultivation decision depending on where I go? Because I plan on reawakening my Archer as well, of course!

Hypothetically: Would a Sage or Demon get a Boss from 1,000,000,000 HP to 0 HP Faster? Using all possible skills that the Archer could get with Demon or Sage. Sparks and Skills. Everything at disposal.

Even if it is hypothetically possible to make one stronger than the other; which one is cheaper and/or easier to obtain power for? Not a budget of 1,000,000 coins but also not a budget of 1,000,000,000,000 coins either. I want my Archer to be strong but I also don't want her to have a goal that is unobtainable.

I am sorry for the intense questionnaire. I just want to make the right choice for the way I play, not the way other people play their Archers.

b:shutup

If you're sticking to PVE only I'd stop right now and make a sin tbh. Archer's don't do anything spectacular at end game in PVE without end game PVP gears, talking r9s3 +10 or higher, bow +12. And I know for a lot of players this is way out of reach. But this is the reality of the situation everyone who's gotten s3 nirvana and done some sort of end game PVP being NW or TW realizes the strengths of going r9 for an archer, its almost necessary.

As already stated the end game PVE content on this game sucks all sorts of D. This is why I'm suggesting making a sin, if you do finish off your archer and do some sort of PVE aps gear set up, you'd be much better off making a sin. Sins get the added benefits of their skill set, bp, and the best dps in game. You'll be able to solo more things quickly and with far more ease. In both aps set ups, you'd need r8 so that's an equal cost if you were to do 1 or the other. You don't need r9 for the sin, s3 nirvana will do you just fine, only issue there is getting a decent roll for int on your daggers. The only expensive part its gonna come down to is polishing off your gears and for both toons that's a considerable project archer or sin. A sin with +10 aps gear set up can still tear through TT and FF with so much ease its ****.

The added bonus for decking out a sin especially as a farming toon, you can farm r9 for your archer if you choose to revisit it. My main's an r9s3 archer. I have a sin with all my old aps gears on the same account. You'll get bored really quick of the pve content on this game, so I'd really suggest exploring some kind of pvp. It does help you play better and provides a lot of challenge on a semi consistent basis, if you plan to stick it out with the archer. I'll stress this in my last sentence, THIS IS MY OPINION AND NOT FACT, what you want to do with your toon is entirely your choice and your decision.

Astraelys - Raging Tide

Myai - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I keep finding all of these threads and guides about why Demon or Sage is better because this and this about killing other players. I have and always will be a 97% PvE player. PvPing will really only be in duels or an occasional which i prefer on my Veno or Cleric anyways. And not to mention that most of the threads that are about PvE are from years ago and way too outdated. b:surrender

So considering only the PvE side of things and throwing out all of the PvP considerations out the window, which is better: Sage or Demon for only PvE?


Both are good for pve no matter is sage or demon


I love going FFing. Or FCing which I think some servers call it. The Frostcovered City is like a second home. Would Sage or Demon skills be better here? I'd be in a party so which is better for group support in AoE scenarios? And later in the lvl 100 squads with BHs and FBs and the other relatively new instances out there; which Cultivation would enhance my Archer better: Sage or Demon?


Both can solo FC with bow don't make much difference


I know we don't really Zhen anymore, but for a scenario like that, which would be better? Not to mention the new Frost Splash, which I don't think is affected by Cultivation choices, but could still be incorporated into a mass AoE attack and enhance the following AoE skill choices.


Frostsplash CD is 3mins if you think spam frost splash every time for pve is not the skill for that.

I have a Sin for soloing bosses for drops and a Veno for soloing TT and the occasional PvP. My Archer would then assume something that those wouldn't do. Damage and AoE support in group scenarios. Things that Archers who don't pay a a thousand dollars to get the best gear possible and are able to solo the hardest thing in the game... What those normal, good, team-playing archers do. Which would be better for that?


For TT keep using your sin, an archer can't make it more faster than a sin


Not to mention the new Reawakened skills. They combine Sage/Demon skills into one. Would getting the Reawakened skills nerf or enhance my Cultivation decision depending on where I go? Because I plan on reawakening my Archer as well, of course!


...............


Hypothetically: Would a Sage or Demon get a Boss from 1,000,000,000 HP to 0 HP Faster? Using all possible skills that the Archer could get with Demon or Sage. Sparks and Skills. Everything at disposal.


Demon will be faster than a sage


Even if it is hypothetically possible to make one stronger than the other; which one is cheaper and/or easier to obtain power for? Not a budget of 1,000,000 coins but also not a budget of 1,000,000,000,000 coins either. I want my Archer to be strong but I also don't want her to have a goal that is unobtainable.


It you looking end game gear sorry is expensive, easy to obtain power? for instances still today no much people like pick a archer, but archer is great for bot


I am sorry for the intense questionnaire. I just want to make the right choice for the way I play, not the way other people play their Archers.

b:shutup

b:surrender good luck