The cold hard facts about scammers.

TZoner - Raging Tide

I'm just gonna post this cuz i KNOW there will be people saying..."Who is dumb enough to fall for this?" or "Maybe you should just be more careful."

The point of scamming is that they gain your trust to deceive you. Anyone saying "Well that is your fault for letting yourself be scammed." Clearly doesnt understand the point of scamming. A scammer gains a persons trust to trick them into doing things they normally wouldn't do. ANYONE can fall for this just about...with the right time and patience I am sure anyone would eventually be willing to trust a person...although I'm sure most scammers pick easier targets to not waste their time.

The definition for scam is as follows : a confidence game or other fraudulent scheme, especially for making a quick profit; swindle. To fall for a scam doesn't make a person dumb...and no one should be so quick to say it is the person fault for ALLOWING the scam. I am sure most of the people saying that would quickly cry foul themselves after also being scammed. The point is to always be wary...sadly in our current day and age people are too willing to trust a person they just met over the net...feeling as though they are safe hiding behind their screen. This is obviously a false sense of safety that scammers USE to get to you.

Everyone just needs to be more aware of what people are asking of them and the information a person is trying to get from them. Sadly many scammers get away with it..cuz lets face it...this game is FULL of them and PWE doesn't seem to ban many scammers...specially when they have put good amounts of money into the game. I have seen this from experience. The responsibility falls on us gamers to expose and keep scammers at bay.

If you suspect someone is trying to scam you in any way SS what they are saying to you for future reference...DON'T visit ANY site they direct you too that you don't know or isn't PWI related. If someone from your own faction is telling you to go to a site not PWI related or that you don't know contact an officer of your faction and let them know. If you are scammed or somehow lose access to your account follow the proper measures. Most of all just don't give our your account info to anyone....for any reason.

Take care all players and watch out for each other...This game is still a good game and we all have to work together to keep it that way. b:victory




Update: A good idea is to pay attention to the mannerism and way certain people on your Friends List type and chat with you and be wary if they suddenly start typing or acting different. Just don't share your info with anyone. Ty for that helpful insight my RT friend in another thread.

Domethies - Raging Tide

Some south park references;

If a friend normally greets you like this "Ewzoner you fail BM fight me" but instead greets you like this " Hello Tzoner, i was wondering if i could loan some of your gear for recreational purposes such as soloing FC or TT", and you loan them gear, your gonna have a bad time.

If someone from world chat tells you to go to www.getfreegoldandthisistotallynotascamandifyouthinkitisthenyourbeingparanoid.com and you go on there, your gonna have a bad time.

If someone makes a new toon a claims to be a friend's bank, eg TZ0NERBANK and you never heard of this bank before, and they offer you free gold but needs to go on your account to give it to you, and then you give your account details, your gonna have a bad time

b:laugh cant think of any more

opkossy

Domethies - Raging Tide wrote: »

If someone from world chat tells you to go to www.getfreegoldandthisistotallynotascamandifyouthinkitisthenyourbeingparanoid.com and you go on there, your gonna have a bad time.

*clicks link*
*has bad time*

b:cry

XXxICExXx - Morai

Im very much in the camp of "its your own fault" sorry I dont want to sound unsympathetic but if u just get into a habit of NOT giving people, (friends included) your stuff then it wouldn't happen.

You wouldnt give people your email/facebook/bank password so why give them your pwi password? I was on when some1 lost their Emperor yesterday on Morai and it was all over WC and I was like WHY did you even give them your stuff? So they could hold it? Friend or no friend give them nothing! Im a tight Scotsman though I wouldn't even give someone the steam off my **** b:chuckle

All being said though its pretty crappy that there are this type of people in game, scamming digital pixels is poor show. Hope the people learn a valuable lesson and I hope they get their stuff back.

Domethies - Raging Tide

OPKossy wrote: »

*clicks link*
*has bad time*

b:cry

b:avoid i dont remember making that actually click able IVE BEEN **** b:laugh

TZoner - Raging Tide

XXxICExXx - Morai wrote: »

Im very much in the camp of "its your own fault" sorry I dont want to sound unsympathetic but if u just get into a habit of NOT giving people, (friends included) your stuff then it wouldn't happen.

You wouldnt give people your email/facebook/bank password so why give them your pwi password? I was on when some1 lost their Emperor yesterday on Morai and it was all over WC and I was like WHY did you even give them your stuff? So they could hold it? Friend or no friend give them nothing! Im a tight Scotsman though I wouldn't even give someone the steam off my **** b:chuckle

All being said though its pretty crappy that there are this type of people in game, scamming digital pixels is poor show. Hope the people learn a valuable lesson and I hope they get their stuff back.

You are right it is crappy that there are people like this. However it is easy to fall prey to this. A simple url someone can link you to a site you THOUGHT was safe..like a link you may THINK is to a youtube video...can be a link to the end of your account. Just try and think of how you would feel if it happened to you...cuz while you may be cautious it still can happen to all of us.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

People trust too fast and yes I consider people stupid to trust people that fast.

For me trust should be earn and it's not something someone can earn in 3 days.

A lot of people think ''Well the person did nothing for me to don't trust him/her''.

If people trust that fast some random pixels I would not like to see irl.

I got sometime people pming me to try my fash, I say no.

I'm not someone that care about what people think of me.

They think I'm rude and not nice cause I said no? I Don't care.

They insist? Still no.

Jadsia - Lost City

Not much is going to convince me that victims of stolen accounts are just plain ignorant. I think it has a lot to do with greed and selfishness and a scammer plays on that.

With that said there are too many warnings about scammers and 3rd party websites to claim ignorance. It's been in the forums and posted in-game for years. For that I do put fault on the scammed as much as the scammers.

XDeliciousx - Morai

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

People trust too fast and yes I consider people stupid to trust people that fast.

For me trust should be earn and it's not something someone can earn in 3 days.

Yes you are 100% right, but one of last examples on our server was really awful. The scammer was gaining victims and factions trust for a LONG time. He was a good friend of those people he scammed, they were even trading valuable stuff with him in past and he never took anything, he was being helpful etc etc.. You would think its just normal person/friend after a while and after he gained the trust he took Emperor and PanGu tome from friend/faction mate who trusted him 100%. Yes ofc, even they know its their own fault to trust him, but that doesnt make it right!

Other example is that he pretended to be officer of bigger guilds (making similar name or switching l with I). One of my guild members got caught just because they trust me 100% as their director and they English is pretty poor so they thought Im asking them to log on some site. Yes, it was pretty naive, but when there is language barrier you can't explain them easily how to prevent that.

I wouldn't like to play this game being paranoid 24/7 that every person I talk to can be potential thief or scammer. I play this game to relax from stressful real life and to have fun with friends and my faction and not to live in a glass cage so nothing bad can happen. There is a reason scamming and phishing is against the rules and we as community have to be against it to protect people who cant protect themself (not because they're dumb, reason can be because of language issues, low age etc.).

zoube

Another reason the swamm worked well in Morai is that people were waiting for compensation.
We had server issues, an unexpected 3 days rollback, and CM says we will have compensation.

Then it was easy for scammers: "go to that link to get your compensation gift".

It's not CM's fault, but scammers used the lack of official information (we are still waiting for the european forum...)

Rhahiki - Morai

TZoner - Raging Tide wrote: »

Everyone just needs to be more aware of what people are asking of them and the information a person is trying to get from them. Sadly many scammers get away with it..cuz lets face it...this game is FULL of them and PWE doesn't seem to ban many scammers...specially when they have put good amounts of money into the game. I have seen this from experience. The responsibility falls on us gamers to expose and keep scammers at bay.

I'm sorry to say, but that's not related to this game. In real life, you will encounter this a lot. I know I do. Whether it's for my company, with scams looking like taxes/public instances/well known companies/legal obligations, or on personal lvl with email, I got those things weekly. This goes from very fail attempts like "your old uncle died, please give me your bank account so I can give you his money", to really existing companies with very close names to really existing companies/obligations. This is nothing new to PWE, games or even Internet.

Yes, it's bad and it should be punished. It's good to have dissuasive measures. However, that will only solve things after the harm is done. Common sense will actually prevent harm to be done.

TZoner - Raging Tide

Rhahiki - Morai wrote: »

I'm sorry to say, but that's not related to this game. In real life, you will encounter this a lot. I know I do. Whether it's for my company, with scams looking like taxes/public instances/well known companies/legal obligations, or on personal lvl with email, I got those things weekly. This goes from very fail attempts like "your old uncle died, please give me your bank account so I can give you his money", to really existing companies with very close names to really existing companies/obligations. This is nothing new to PWE, games or even Internet.

Yes, it's bad and it should be punished. It's good to have dissuasive measures. However, that will only solve things after the harm is done. Common sense will actually prevent harm to be done.

Um...what are you talking about...we are talking about scamming in pwi...why would u say it has nothing to do with the game? You should actually read a thread before posting in it. And to anyone else posting on this thread....while i agree that sympathy for most people isnt deserved if they were dumb enough to get scammed i just have to say if it was ANY of you that got scammed you would be crying foul just the same. So stop thinking just about how dumb people are and wake up and realize that it can happen to ANYONE.

SunDownXIII - Dreamweaver

Very good points. I have to admit I'm very trustworthy at times and in the pass I have lost some items including rare wings and fashion to so called friends. But not because they asked, but more because I offered (wasn't using them at the time and wanted to be nice and help out).

But can't I say I have stopped believing in people? No. Im just more carefull. This is still a game to me... Nothing to stress about it. Of course I haven't spent a small fortune like some people in here so losing 80 mil is no biggie.

Rhahiki - Morai

TZoner - Raging Tide wrote: »

Um...what are you talking about...we are talking about scamming in pwi...why would u say it has nothing to do with the game?

You make a sort of guide, or whatever, making it sound like you have to be so careful in PWI. It's exactly the same everywhere. There are not more scammers in this game then you encounter every day RL, and they aren't less punished then RL either. That's what I'm talking about. If someone actually learned something from your "guide", I'm seriously afraid for their real wallet.

TZoner - Raging Tide

Rhahiki - Morai wrote: »

You make a sort of guide, or whatever, making it sound like you have to be so careful in PWI. It's exactly the same everywhere. There are not more scammers in this game then you encounter every day RL, and they aren't less punished then RL either. That's what I'm talking about. If someone actually learned something from your "guide", I'm seriously afraid for their real wallet.

This "guide" was just to spread awareness to people. I'm very sorry YOU have a problem with it. Maybe you should make your own "guide" so people can comment on how stupid your "guide" is...The truth is this wasnt a guide to start...i was making a point of my own. Again im sorry it clearly offends you. Maybe next time i write a thread ill be sure to keep my opinions and knowledge to myself maybe then you wont be so offended.

Verenor - Morai

Rhahiki - Morai wrote: »

You make a sort of guide, or whatever, making it sound like you have to be so careful in PWI. It's exactly the same everywhere. There are not more scammers in this game then you encounter every day RL, and they aren't less punished then RL either. That's what I'm talking about. If someone actually learned something from your "guide", I'm seriously afraid for their real wallet.

I'm more seriously afraid of how you will develop at all. Guides are meant to help people/spread information to others. Scammers aren't only on PWI, true. The more this information is more than welcome to many people who are new to the internet/scamming business and can now defend themselves more than without this. If nobody teaches them, who will? Parents? Hardly know how to create a character, let alone spot fake sites.

Your argument is as senseble as "why learn self-defense, there are armed thieves out there in dark alleys anyways, might as well just give up".
It's not about how bad humanity is, it's about knowing what to look out for and avoid that dark alley, and when you have to at least have some sort of line of defense.

Evryn - Morai

I don't get that this is an issue even. Spotting fake sites should be second nature to people who spend a lot of time online. And if not, a friendly inquiry on the forum here on wether or not a link is legit is all it would take.

Me personally, I got a few simple rules regarding not getting scammed. I've not lost an account in any game I've played, and I've been in a few...
- Don't ever give out your password. (Correct response to this is "duh".)
- Don't give out your login name. While not as sensitive as your password, without a login name, malicious users can't try to use brute force or dictionary attacks against your account.
- Don't use the same login name or password on other sites, such as game forums. While the administrators of those forums are generally not malicious, the forum software itself is often not the most up to date, and more susceptible to hacks then game accounts themselves. If your login and password are identical on the forum and the forum account database is stolen, you're gonna have a bad time.
- Don't use add-ons, enhancements, trainers and outright cheating programs. More often then not they'll contain a keylogger or something similar that sends your account info back to the creator of the cheat, or the person who distributes it.
- Don't visit sites ending in ".ru" - I'll prolly get flak for this, but that's where the scammer underbelly of the Net frequently is.
- Rotate your password once a month or so. PWI reminds you on each login with a nag screen (not the best method to do it imho - something you always see and are annoyed by, you'll just mindlessly click past).

Also, inventory scams...
- Linking items is fine, but don't trust a "select the item and click here to upgrade it" or similar. Anything that requires you to move your items around is very suspicious at best.
- Don't loan or hand out anything you're going to need unless you -really- trust the individual involved.
- "Want to trade my coins on server here for yours on server there" -> you're asking to be scammed out of your coins. Especially if the individual expects you to give first.


It may all seem rather basic, but these rough guidelines can save you a lot of grief.

XXHotXx - Morai

point also is that personally there are people in game that i trust like my brothers, i lent them hundreds of millions in past, or high refined nw gears and always got them back


what if those kind of players get **** over night and the day after i lend them gears\money as i used to, but its not your friend actually, its some toss.rs trying to just cancer the community to pay the bread

and pwi is allowing that, not pursuing hackers, not giving back items just setting a silly system message that doesnt have anything to do with the scam since the real and "solid" scam comes from getting fckd up by what you think are your in-game friends.

rieihdius

TZoner - Raging Tide wrote: »

I'm just gonna post this cuz i KNOW there will be people saying..."Who is dumb enough to fall for this?" or "Maybe you should just be more careful."

The point of scamming is that they gain your trust to deceive you. Anyone saying "Well that is your fault for letting yourself be scammed." Clearly doesnt understand the point of scamming. A scammer gains a persons trust to trick them into doing things they normally wouldn't do. ANYONE can fall for this just about...with the right time and patience I am sure anyone would eventually be willing to trust a person...although I'm sure most scammers pick easier targets to not waste their time.

The definition for scam is as follows : a confidence game or other fraudulent scheme, especially for making a quick profit; swindle. To fall for a scam doesn't make a person dumb...and no one should be so quick to say it is the person fault for ALLOWING the scam. I am sure most of the people saying that would quickly cry foul themselves after also being scammed. The point is to always be wary...sadly in our current day and age people are too willing to trust a person they just met over the net...feeling as though they are safe hiding behind their screen. This is obviously a false sense of safety that scammers USE to get to you.

Everyone just needs to be more aware of what people are asking of them and the information a person is trying to get from them. Sadly many scammers get away with it..cuz lets face it...this game is FULL of them and PWE doesn't seem to ban many scammers...specially when they have put good amounts of money into the game. I have seen this from experience. The responsibility falls on us gamers to expose and keep scammers at bay.

If you suspect someone is trying to scam you in any way SS what they are saying to you for future reference...DON'T visit ANY site they direct you too that you don't know or isn't PWI related. If someone from your own faction is telling you to go to a site not PWI related or that you don't know contact an officer of your faction and let them know. If you are scammed or somehow lose access to your account follow the proper measures. Most of all just don't give our your account info to anyone....for any reason.

Take care all players and watch out for each other...This game is still a good game and we all have to work together to keep it that way. b:victory




Update: A good idea is to pay attention to the mannerism and way certain people on your Friends List type and chat with you and be wary if they suddenly start typing or acting different. Just don't share your info with anyone. Ty for that helpful insight my RT friend in another thread.

Agree with you, also I understand that some people say that sometimes is the victim s fault, however that does not mean that the Scammers should be allowed to scam.

I mean seriously, sometimes i see people on world chat complaining about a scammer, and the trolls on chat say the typical: Your fault, go and uninstall blablabla, some people even praise the scammer. For me most of players that give that kind of answer are just trolling or it could even be the scammer defending himself through an alt.

At the end, regardless if someone is stupid or not to be cheated, a scammer is still a scammer.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

If its a key-logger/sophisticated adware... it can record your mannerism, and then the 'hacker' can mimic a friend... but aye most hackers are unlikely to go to that extent just to **** someone else... but then again they may very well be willing to try this very thing, if they tried and failed to get you to download anything, or go to a fishy site.

Sadly you really do need to be suspicious of anyone/everyone even if they are good friends/have the same 'mannerisms.' ... No matter how much you may trust a friend you met in game, you really have no idea what sites they may be visiting in their.. free time... when they aren't playing the game. (Hell even if you know they're smart/savvy to an extent, you really never know if they may have downloaded something mining information from their computers... unknowingly... it does happen. ;/ It can even happen to those who might consider themselves computer savvy.

My point is that you never know what might be hidden on a friends computer/what a "hacker" might do to get as much 'goods' as possible.

My point for posting this here from the other thread?

Hackers/scammers can and will adapt to the ways people have at 'detecting' friend from foe.

I know its sad distrusting people, but meh if its an item you'd prefer not to risk losing then do NOT let anyone borrow it, do NOT give out your username or password, do not download anything from "friends" (more computer paranoia here, but still, you never know when a worm might be attached to that file he or she is sending you... I am not saying they did it on purpose, but it can happen without either party knowing its there until its too late.) (yes there are ways to 'protect' yourself from the computer-program related threats out there on the net/even the threats sent from 'friend's' whether they do it maliciously or not.. also yes it is possible to be '****' even when your immensely careful and not 'stupid'... but it does make it a hell of a lot harder for hackers/scammers to take advantage of you.)

Sad truth of the matter is that you really do have to be a little... cynical/a little too not trusting if you want to keep yourself safe/account in tact as it was the way you left it.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

XDeliciousx - Morai wrote: »

Yes you are 100% right, but one of last examples on our server was really awful. The scammer was gaining victims and factions trust for a LONG time. He was a good friend of those people he scammed, they were even trading valuable stuff with him in past and he never took anything, he was being helpful etc etc.. You would think its just normal person/friend after a while and after he gained the trust he took Emperor and PanGu tome from friend/faction mate who trusted him 100%. Yes ofc, even they know its their own fault to trust him, but that doesnt make it right!

at that point i would think those pple are just mentally incapacitated o,o as there are not many pple who would do a 180 personality change after being friends for a good while. Alas, you meet quite a few of them online tho, happens on a lesser level with gold diggers, or players that snub you because you offended their friends friends precious pet dog or something lol. Basically those are pple in need of psychological help.

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

Just figured I'd throw this out here too.....

Terms of Service wrote:

our Account may only to be used by you. We are not responsible for any misuse of your Account or your User ID, you agree to accept all risks of misuse of and unauthorized access to your Account and to hold us and our affiliates harmless from and against any misuse use of your Account or your User ID, including, but not limited to, improper or unauthorized use by someone to whom you revealed your password.

Please note that, you are responsible for maintaining the confidentiality and security of your User ID and password at all times, and you agree to notify us if your password is lost, stolen, or disclosed to an unauthorized third party, or otherwise may have been compromised. You are solely responsible for all activities and transactions that occur under your Account, and we are not responsible for any misuse use of your account, including without limitation in the event that your password is stolen or revealed to a third party and/or used for transactions. You agree to immediately notify us of any misuse use of your Account or any other breach of security in relation to the Service known to you. We provide you with choice to change your password in order to safeguard your Account.

XXxICExXx - Morai

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

Just figured I'd throw this out here too.....

Its funny I've spoke to 3 separate people tonight in game who were either using a "friends/partner's account or were allowing friends/partners to use one of their accounts. Even after all the scamming people still leave themselves open to abuse/scamming.

Verenor - Morai

XXxICExXx - Morai wrote: »

Its funny I've spoke to 3 separate people tonight in game who were either using a "friends/partner's account or were allowing friends/partners to use one of their accounts. Even after all the scamming people still leave themselves open to abuse/scamming.

Having your partner on your account when you're right behind him/her doing w/e isn't that prone to scamming cause most likely a direct effect would be the remote at their face :P

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

Verenor - Morai wrote: »

Having your partner on your account when you're right behind him/her doing w/e isn't that prone to scamming cause most likely a direct effect would be the remote at their face :P

No, it's usually later, after the breakup, that's it's an issue. They get greedy, or just want to ruin your fun. Or, maybe they are on their toons, you're not available, they need your toon for X, give their friend your account data, the issue spreads.

Anytime someone other than you knows your login information, it's not good.

Zanryu - Lothranis

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

at that point i would think those pple are just mentally incapacitated o,o as there are not many pple who would do a 180 personality change after being friends for a good while. Alas, you meet quite a few of them online tho, happens on a lesser level with gold diggers, or players that snub you because you offended their friends friends precious pet dog or something lol. Basically those are pple in need of psychological help.

Some might, you see it on another game all the time. Social engineering. They make you think they're you're friend and that you can trust them, then once you're convinced you're both close they pull of what they're gonna do to you.

I was a victim (well, not a victim, I turned the tables on them and made them rage) of this type of scam. They wanted me to go to a certain area with my stuff to "be in a youtube video" and I went along with it, knowing full well what they were doing. They were acting friendly, added me on skype, we talked and it was a friendly conversation. Once they realized I knew what was going on they tried to get me in on their whole operation (which was actually another trick) and I agreed, knowing the next type of scam they were gonna pull. So they talked to me, explained what we were gonna do, and continuously tried to make sure I had my stuff. So I showed them up to the moment we were supposed to go to the place to "scam some guy" and I traded it all to an alt before we went in, and the second I stepped in I got killed by 10 people. Their attitude changed drastically on skype because they lost out on what they thought was gonna be a large amount of cash since I had shown them two of the top end sets of armor, some good weapons, and a few other things. They acted friendly for a good few hours trying to gain my trust, when the reality is they only wanted to take my gear and money. I see no reason why people can't keep something like that up for months in order to worm their way into larger amounts of money from their victims.

TZoner - Raging Tide

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

Just figured I'd throw this out here too.....

Yea we all know account sharing is against the ToS. The sad thing is i have heard MANY instances where PWI has become aware of account sharing and doesn't do ANYTHING....they have it against the rules but hardly enforce it anymore. I can honestly say i know of SEVERAL big name players on the RT server that have PRO r9rr gear that are not the original owner of the account or share their account....so if you ask me this is almost a mute point to make anymore.

Brillance - Raging Tide

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

at that point i would think those pple are just mentally incapacitated o,o as there are not many pple who would do a 180 personality change after being friends for a good while. Alas, you meet quite a few of them online tho, happens on a lesser level with gold diggers, or players that snub you because you offended their friends friends precious pet dog or something lol. Basically those are pple in need of psychological help.

Not true. Countries go to war over money, families throughout history kill each other over money. Ever hear of a 'confidence man'?

As with any crime, a criminal needs access to rip you off. A stranger cannot easily rip you off, since you have no confidence in them. But you do have confidence in your friends and family usually - they are the people you give the access too.

The game itself sets the tone for how people act in it. The game is all about money. Since the games provider likes that its game is all about money, they should really be more attentive to those that disrupt their cash flow. They should feel a sense of urgency at pleasing their well-spending customers, and I truely believe they do.

Just look at the game. Even the new starter area is geared to the advantage of existing accounts. The whole starting game has be changed to clearly meet the needs of new alts - and not new players. There is no advertisement of the game. Why should there be? They already have the 'cash cows' coraled rather nicely.

As long as you have DL'd Arc, they are happy, and doing what they can to keep you happy, provided you spend enough cash.

Its all rather perfect really. b:victory

Sockerpullan - Sanctuary

ah nice one ppl who understand severel of my friends have been scamed and they get info from their friends who they trust and even i get mess but i play alot and see red text comming ppl who cant play so much miss this message too so they not dumb but very sad so they dont need hear pl say they dumb