5 aps sin

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SkiKnight - Heavens Tear
SkiKnight - Heavens Tear Posts: 1 Arc User
edited March 2014 in Assassin
b:pleased seen post on how to be 5 aps sin on forum, said you need to have

any rank top with int, .05
asura wrist
asura boots
shadow asura legs
lionheart necklace
lionheart belt
nirvana daggers, barrier thorn .10 or dark death thorn with atleast double int .05
pan gu creator

ok, here's the thing. a pan gu will cost you between 350-450 mil ( IT IS NOT NEED TO BE 5 PS SIN ) "TME ONLY SIN THE NEEDS HELP TO BE 5 APS I A SAGE SIN". if you choose demon which in my opinion is best way to go. the only real advantage to being sage is the blood paint. if you go demon constant spark without tome = 5 aps. tome not need, befofe spark ends, you are able to spark again, you are 5 aps always, if you need addional help use inner harmony.

just thought I would throw this out there for those who don't have the coin to spend on pan gu......b:b:pleased b:bye
Post edited by SkiKnight - Heavens Tear on

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  • WannaBM - Archosaur
    WannaBM - Archosaur Posts: 1,984 Arc User
    edited March 2014
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    Indeed you do not need a pan-gu if you have a dagger with -0.10 interval.

    The difference between G16 daggers and lower grade ones however is so big that you better be 4APS G16 than 5APS G15 (or worse even lower). Therefore, it is about being 5APS with G16 dagger or even R9.3.

    G16 daggers with -0.10int come about 1 in 100 rerolls. Therefore the cost of buying them is greater than a pan gu tome. You can of course just try your luck and reroll yourself, but it will probably take you many weeks of continuous FW farming.

    The ultimate 5aps is with an R9 dagger. This requires a double int R8r armor which is even harder to roll than a double int G16 dagger.
    Everything i write is from PvE perspective unless mentioned otherwise.
  • opkossy
    opkossy Posts: 11,177 Community Moderator
    edited March 2014
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    It feels as is this thread is... at least 2-3 years late all things considered.
    (Insert fancy image here)
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  • DionDagger - Dreamweaver
    DionDagger - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,140 Arc User
    edited March 2014
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    SkiKnight - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    *load of *****

    I'm sage with 2.5 aps and i can out DD any demon with g15 or g13. 5aps is over rated.
  • Walpurga - Dreamweaver
    Walpurga - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,028 Arc User
    edited March 2014
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    DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I'm sage with 2.5 aps and i can out DD any demon with g15 or g13. 5aps is over rated.

    Let's not mention that your weapon is R9rr, lol; hardly comparable to the Nirvy gear us plebians use b:laugh
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  • Brivido - Dreamweaver
    Brivido - Dreamweaver Posts: 81 Arc User
    edited March 2014
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    DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I'm sage with 2.5 aps and i can out DD any demon with g15 or g13. 5aps is over rated.

    Im demon 4 aps and i can out dd any sage 2.5 aps with r9rr. dph is overrated b:angry b:chuckle
  • Atropah - Sanctuary
    Atropah - Sanctuary Posts: 186 Arc User
    edited March 2014
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    OPKossy wrote: »
    It feels as is this thread is... at least 2-3 years late all things considered.
    Have a feeling the thread the OP saw and felt the need to inform us was precisely that. Prolly something from the early G15 dagger days.

    Anyways, the "rank chest with at least -0.05" is bad advice when looking for cheap 5 aps. Get the r8 chest that has -.1 and you can hit 5 aps without a -int tome as long as you're demon. With the tome you can aim for an r8r chest and spark to 5 aps, but in that case you'd still probably prefer the .1 chest and weaker defenses when unsparked because of 4 aps vs 3.33 aps.
    DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I'm sage with 2.5 aps and i can out DD any demon with g15 or g13. 5aps is over rated.

    G15 and G16 were (are) still excellent weapons for dps, though G13s base damage was too low to even outshine r8 daggers. But G15 and G16 actually still refine better than r9t3, it's just the base damage that makes the main difference.

    G16 dagger dps comes reasonably close to r9t3 dps when comparing 5 aps v 4 aps. And a demon G15 (SS/Gof) or G16 5 aps would out dps a sage 2.5 aps with r9t3. Even at only 4 aps and almost 3.33 aps.

    People complain about how cash shoppers could just buy their holy pills for meridians, buy their S cards, had the best gear for easiest title hunting and soloing when they rerolled, but all those things except the cards helped narrow the gap between OP geared people and average geared people. G16 daggers used to be about 14% less dps than an equally geared sin with r9t3 but depending on your titles and meridians it's now only 9-12% less dps.
  • peckked
    peckked Posts: 224 Arc User
    edited March 2014
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    Atropah - Sanctuary wrote: »
    G16 dagger dps comes reasonably close to r9t3 dps when comparing 5 aps v 4 aps. And a demon G15 (SS/Gof) or G16 5 aps would out dps a sage 2.5 aps with r9t3. Even at only 4 aps and almost 3.33 aps.

    While on paper it looks as if this is the case, it is just not true.

    I have NV3 +12 with 2x -0.05 int as well as R93 +12 daggers giving me a base APS of 4.0 and 2.86 respectively. From personal experience on my sage sin, NV3@5.0 (windshield) is roughly the same as R93@2.86 in terms of damage. R93@3.33 (windshield) does significantly more damage. This lasts ~6-7 sparks when the added chi gain helps NV3 to catch up, only pulling away 2-3 sparks later. G15 with GoF @ 5.0 doesn't stand a chance against R93@ 2.5 APS. Something else to consider is that lower refines favors R93. Likewise, the new stat Spirit scales with attack levels and also favors R93. Higher damage multipliers from the added dex from rebirth also favors R93.

    NV3 @ 5.0 will beat out R93 @ 2.5 but none of the other statements you made are correct. R93 is truly in a class of it's own in terms of damage.
  • DionDagger - Dreamweaver
    DionDagger - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,140 Arc User
    edited March 2014
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    Brivido - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Im demon 4 aps and i can out dd any sage 2.5 aps with r9rr. dph is overrated b:angry b:chuckle

    May I remind you i saw you using chill in aps gear in FSP Brivib:laugh
  • WannaBM - Archosaur
    WannaBM - Archosaur Posts: 1,984 Arc User
    edited March 2014
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    peckked wrote: »
    While on paper it looks as if this is the case, it is just not true.

    I have NV3 +12 with 2x -0.05 int as well as R93 +12 daggers giving me a base APS of 4.0 and 2.86 respectively. From personal experience on my sage sin, NV3@5.0 (windshield) is roughly the same as R93@2.86 in terms of damage. R93@3.33 (windshield) does significantly more damage. This lasts ~6-7 sparks when the added chi gain helps NV3 to catch up, only pulling away 2-3 sparks later. G15 with GoF @ 5.0 doesn't stand a chance against R93@ 2.5 APS. Something else to consider is that lower refines favors R93. Likewise, the new stat Spirit scales with attack levels and also favors R93. Higher damage multipliers from the added dex from rebirth also favors R93.

    NV3 @ 5.0 will beat out R93 @ 2.5 but none of the other statements you made are correct. R93 is truly in a class of it's own in terms of damage.

    I think it is somewhere in between. You make r9 look better than it is. I am no sin so i cant compare from that perspective, but i don know what sins out DD me and who dont.

    Scratch all your whatever favours what. Its wrong and you keep out the +dmg bonusses from engravings and war avatars (they would according to your logic probably favor G16)

    The real differences:
    R9 weapon does a bit more damage(about 7% on the total)
    R9 gives more attack levels (10%-15% on the total)
    R9 ring gives extra dmg (about 4%)
    5APS has 10% nerf, 4APS only 5%. (5% win for r9)
    vs
    -20% from being 4 aps.

    So that should leave the R9 with some 10% or so advantage. I do feel it is probably a little more, i suspect that mostly comes from R9 players being more properly equiped than most G16. Not just that ring. When you compare 2.86 with 5.0, (4.5 effectively because of nerf) you imply a difference more than 50% which is totally redonculous.

    Recent situations i remember are me tanking with an R9+8 sin. (who of course purposely doesnt use his crit skill) And me stealing agro from a 2.86 R9+12 sage sin when he didnt use his crit skill. And my damage output is about equal to a 4APS G16+10 sin.
    Everything i write is from PvE perspective unless mentioned otherwise.
  • peckked
    peckked Posts: 224 Arc User
    edited March 2014
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    The damage difference is ridonculous. :D

    Consider that all the damage advantages R93 has which you've mentioned, along with those you didn't (crit/dex/GoF), and the fact that these separate advantages aren't just added, but stacked and 50% isn't far off.

    Base Damage (aka NV3 damage) x 1.07 (for damage difference using your estimate - I got an average of 7.8% from 1906/1767.5) x 1.121 (95 vs 74 total attack levels) x 1.2 (GoF) x 1.048 (53 vs 46 crit) = 1.51 or in other words 51% more damage per hit.

    This is a very very crude estimate using some of the factors you've mentioned + a couple you left out. I've also omitted the r9 ring in how it might affect damage as well as the dex add with exception of how it affected my crit. As far as other considerations such as nuema, war avatars, titles, engravings, etc., they are also affected and scaled by these modifiers which is why I said they favor R93. Ideal adds on NV3 could change this but 50% sounds about right for most situations.

    As I've mentioned, this is based off of actual experience with both daggers on the same character. In my situation I can be sure that all else remains equal with exception of the weapon. I maintain that R93 with 2.86 is about the same as NV3 with 5.0.

    As for your experience, r93+12 (is it safe for me to assume you meant r93 and not vanilla r9) doesn't do 50% more damage than r93 +8. The difference is around 37% (1906/1392) if you don't consider other sources of phys attack. If we were to use my base attack with bonuses which is around 3k average, you're looking at 17% (514/3000) which wouldn't make up the difference in APS (2.86 vs 4.0) so it makes sense you would hold agro with all else being equal. But we weren't comparing sage and demon, rather NV3@5.0 vs r93@2.86.
  • Brivido - Dreamweaver
    Brivido - Dreamweaver Posts: 81 Arc User
    edited March 2014
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    DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    May I remind you i saw you using chill in aps gear in FSP Brivib:laugh

    I might have accidentally been in r9rr there b:surrender

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