anti wood genie? >:

killeresras

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

There is a reason this is balanced against veno's. As for PvP veno's, why should the class with the most devistating debuffs get more killing power? Other than what you want. It's called balance. The skill is simply one way to balnce out the veno, because there are very few ways to resist their debuffs that don't leave you screwed to something else.

1 curse at a time first of all.

By your name I'm guessing your a sin= tidal protection like best buff in game any caster would trade purify for sage tidal.
Lol id rather have sage tidal and no wep proc rather than wep zerk or puri wep procs b:chuckle

Nova is the only wood skill that has a debuff that could "****" u to something else and it's only demon nova.

Azura - Lost City

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

There is a reason this is balanced against veno's. As for PvP veno's, why should the class with the most devistating debuffs get more killing power? Other than what you want. It's called balance. The skill is simply one way to balnce out the veno, because there are very few ways to resist their debuffs that don't leave you screwed to something else.

A guy from the class that has Tidal protection, stealth, highest dealing damage skills in game, and enormous amounts of chi, has spoken.

killeresras

Azura - Lost City wrote: »

A guy from the class that has Tidal protection, stealth, highest dealing damage skills in game, and enormous amounts of chi, has spoken.

Yes we must all kneel to his higness b:cute

Devaliah - Raging Tide

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

There is a reason this is balanced against veno's. As for PvP veno's, why should the class with the most devistating debuffs get more killing power? Other than what you want. It's called balance. The skill is simply one way to balnce out the veno, because there are very few ways to resist their debuffs that don't leave you screwed to something else.

you forgot veno's also have fire/water skills too even if you don't want to use foxform. another tactic i used to use is various MP burning skills, followed by the genie skill to soul transfuse in others. most HA classes don't even have 2k mp so by the time that the soul transfuse takes place there at about 5-10% hp. **** gear difference when you only have about 1k hp left there isn't much you can do xD damage wise i do think veno's need a few buffs, in mass pk they are amazing but in 1v1 there slightly lacking. i think they should re-enable bramble for pk >.> bramble is nothing compared to the psy reflects. f:shame

Azura - Lost City

Devaliah - Raging Tide wrote: »

you forgot veno's also have fire/water skills too even if you don't want to use foxform. another tactic i used to use is various MP burning skills, followed by the genie skill to soul transfuse in others. most HA classes don't even have 2k mp so by the time that the soul transfuse takes place there at about 5-10% hp. **** gear difference when you only have about 1k hp left there isn't much you can do xD damage wise i do think veno's need a few buffs, in mass pk they are amazing but in 1v1 there slightly lacking. i think they should re-enable bramble for pk >.> bramble is nothing compared to the psy reflects. f:shame

We don't have any skill that deals fire or water damage. We just have one skill that has a fire dot, and another water dot, but the base damage is wood.

Mosz - Heavens Tear

Azura - Lost City wrote: »

A guy from the class that has Tidal protection, stealth, highest dealing damage skills in game, and enormous amounts of chi, has spoken.

what, since when do sins have the highest damage dealing skills? except earthern rift and the funky new primordial multi hits all sin skills are only 100% wep damage+x, other classes have commonly 200-300%, even 500% wep damage (which sins have the lowest wep damage ofc)

lets not forget "base" damage is almost twice as high on magic classes than sins, that conveninet 33% better stat multiplier you have

dont forget sins get 25% less attack from cards..soon that will add up very negatively

Desdi - Sanctuary

Devaliah - Raging Tide wrote: »

you forgot veno's also have fire/water skills too even if you don't want to use foxform. another tactic i used to use is various MP burning skills, followed by the genie skill to soul transfuse in others. most HA classes don't even have 2k mp so by the time that the soul transfuse takes place there at about 5-10% hp. **** gear difference when you only have about 1k hp left there isn't much you can do xD damage wise i do think veno's need a few buffs, in mass pk they are amazing but in 1v1 there slightly lacking. i think they should re-enable bramble for pk >.> bramble is nothing compared to the psy reflects. f:shame

I just want to clear the misconceptions; Venomancers' skills are all Wood damage. The only non-wood damage skill is Arcane Antinomy (lvl100 chrono page skill) and the Fox Form attacks. They do have a Fire DoT and a Water DoT (Blazing and Frost Scarab respectively) but if the initial attack, which is Wood, is resisted then the DoTs will not go off.

The genie skill Soul Transfusion is widely ignored because the proc rate is not reliable or at least that's what I remember. Discussions over this skill came to the conclusion that it's far too situational and not reliable enough to make it worth having on your genie in the long run. It is a fancy skill but other skills come in more handy most of the time.

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

Azura - Lost City wrote: »

A guy from the class that has Tidal protection, stealth, highest dealing damage skills in game, and enormous amounts of chi, has spoken.

Sins have the lowest physical attack of all classes, and casters/seekers have the highest damage skills.

All i here is QQ, come with some substance, i beg of you. I won't justify my classes skills to someone like you, because if you knew anything about sins, you would find our skills are well justified, except for maybe sage tidal.

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

killeresras wrote: »

1 curse at a time first of all.

By your name I'm guessing your a sin= tidal protection like best buff in game any caster would trade purify for sage tidal.
Lol id rather have sage tidal and no wep proc rather than wep zerk or puri wep procs b:chuckle

Nova is the only wood skill that has a debuff that could "****" u to something else and it's only demon nova.

Iron wood, purge, nova, myriad's, amp, crush vigor, soul degen, arcane antimony, bewitch, and chi burn. Most of which can debuff opponents base stats, not stuns or immob, but actually debuff their stats. Name sin debuffs that debuff stats. I can name 3 and 2 of them depend on culti. Sage Ribstrike hp debuff, demon thoat cut amp, and and spell cutter. Also sage tidal is exclusive to sage sins, which is like 20% of the population, the veno skills I listed can be used by any veno.

In the sake of balance, would you trade sage tidal for fox form, bramble, and all your IG/damage reduction/reflection skills? You'd be a liar if you said you would.

Desdi - Sanctuary

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Iron wood, purge, nova, myriad's, amp, crush vigor, soul degen, arcane antimony, bewitch, and chi burn. Most of which can debuff opponents base stats, not stuns or immob, but actually debuff their stats. Name sin debuffs that debuff stats. I can name 3 and 2 of them depend on culti. Sage Ribstrike hp debuff, demon thoat cut amp, and and spell cutter. Also sage tidal is exclusive to sage sins, which is like 20% of the population, the veno skills I listed can be used by any veno.

In the sake of balance, would you trade sage tidal for fox form, bramble, and all your IG/damage reduction/reflection skills? You'd be a liar if you said you would.

Skills like Amplify Damage, Crush Vigor and Soul Degeneration don't stack; they overwrite each other (kinda referring to killer's first line of her last post).

I'm not sure where the discussion is going, talking about completely different skills of completely different classes is kinda like apples and oranges to me but I guess I'm butting in just to clear misconceptions. My fingers are too itchy to reply when I see wrong comments about classes I play extensively f:meh (not that it's bad, I myself don't know very well some things about other classes).

As far as my personal opinion on the matter is...I'm not into 1v1s so I don't care all that much, the genie skill has little effect in mass PvP, TWs and NW when groups of people are involved. In 1v1 I'd probably just try to stunlock using monkey or debuff. I'd rather see updates to some of the really useless genie skills instead (without breaking the game though lol).

Marengo - Lost City

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Sins have the lowest physical attack of all classes, and casters/seekers have the highest damage skills.

Do you count critrate (~70% basic if not more), wolf emblem and zc? With such crit rate you deal double damage almost permanently. And zc is x4 damage.

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

In the sake of balance, would you trade sage tidal for fox form, bramble, and all your IG/damage reduction/reflection skills? You'd be a liar if you said you would.

Why do you ask a question and call ppl liars before they even say something? b:question

killeresras

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Iron wood, purge, nova, myriad's, amp, crush vigor, soul degen, arcane antimony, bewitch, and chi burn. Most of which can debuff opponents base stats, not stuns or immob, but actually debuff their stats. Name sin debuffs that debuff stats. I can name 3 and 2 of them depend on culti. Sage Ribstrike hp debuff, demon thoat cut amp, and and spell cutter. Also sage tidal is exclusive to sage sins, which is like 20% of the population, the veno skills I listed can be used by any veno.

In the sake of balance, would you trade sage tidal for fox form, bramble, and all your IG/damage reduction/reflection skills? You'd be a liar if you said you would.

U were wrong answering for me lol. Without some type of animal form it wouldn't really be a veno. I would probably give up any of the other skills u said for sage tidal. I normally use hood/blazing(leaving out guard because that got nerfed and barely does anything now.) To survive dmg in case I get locked I doubt I'd need it if I could resist every debuff possible.

Also, does your brain completely ignore crit damage and weave out the few times it doesn't say crit? Oh right it must be so natural to use spark that you probably don't even know when you use it and even then you probably only see the difference of your regular attack damage and spark damage as the actual damage. Unlimited Spark+crit+zerk crit and they have lowest damage? Pshh... The statement that sins have lowest damage in game was probably as wrong as it gets.

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

killeresras wrote: »

U were wrong answering for me lol. Without some type of animal form it wouldn't really be a veno. I would probably give up any of the other skills u said for sage tidal. I normally use hood/blazing(leaving out guard because that got nerfed and barely does anything now.) To survive dmg in case I get locked I doubt I'd need it if I could resist every debuff possible.

Also, does your brain completely ignore crit damage and weave out the few times it doesn't say crit? Oh right it must be so natural to use spark that you probably don't even know when you use it and even then you probably only see the difference of your regular attack damage and spark damage as the actual damage. Unlimited Spark+crit+zerk crit and they have lowest damage? Pshh... The statement that sins have lowest damage in game was probably as wrong as it gets.

Go compare a r9rr +12 sins physical damage to the damage of every class in the game, then slap yourself for being so stupid. As for crit, it's called a balancer. Since casters and everyother class has 2x the base damage of sins, they made sin a dex class to give higher crit chance. The reason why archers do not have zerk is for that very same reason. Your regular crit=my zerk crit.

As for the 'I wouldn't be a veno', sins dont have skills that scale off our base stats and provide damage reduction out right, which is what Deaden, Tidal, and Focused mind is for. It's the same reason archers have WoG and winged shell, however winged skill isnt as powerful due to the archers high base attack and range.

Marengo - Lost City wrote: »

Do you count critrate (~70% basic if not more), wolf emblem and zc? With such crit rate you deal double damage almost permanently. And zc is x4 damage.

Your crit=my zerk crit. Zerk crits and wolf emblem give sins the possibility to do damage similar to casters, but lets not forget the pdef buffs in this game out number the mdef buffs by far. Also lets not forget not all sins have zerk, while ALL veno's has access to your weapon multiplier and over 2x our attack. It's called balance, despite what your emotions may tell you.

Marengo - Lost City wrote: »

Why do you ask a question and call ppl liars before they even say something? b:question

Because I've had this same arguement with multiple veno's before and they have all lost, he isn't telling me anything i haven't heard before.

If you want tidal, give up your defensive buffs and abilities, the one thing sins dont really have.

If you want zerk, give up the damage multipliers of a caster, and reduce your base damage by half.

I doubt you would want to do these things, otherwise you wouldn't be playing a veno now would you? Trying to call sins OP in these days is silly, the class has it perks, your class has its perks. However do not downplay the assassins short comings because it has quite a few.

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

Skills like Amplify Damage, Crush Vigor and Soul Degeneration don't stack; they overwrite each other (kinda referring to killer's first line of her last post).

I'm not sure where the discussion is going, talking about completely different skills of completely different classes is kinda like apples and oranges to me but I guess I'm butting in just to clear misconceptions. My fingers are too itchy to reply when I see wrong comments about classes I play extensively f:meh (not that it's bad, I myself don't know very well some things about other classes).

As far as my personal opinion on the matter is...I'm not into 1v1s so I don't care all that much, the genie skill has little effect in mass PvP, TWs and NW when groups of people are involved. In 1v1 I'd probably just try to stunlock using monkey or debuff. I'd rather see updates to some of the really useless genie skills instead (without breaking the game though lol).

I know they overwrite each other, but these skills last an adiquate amount of time, and can be taken advantage of my everyone other than the veno if she dies. I admit it isn't as potent as subsea and does no damage, but subsea also cost 2 spaks.

It is apples to oranges, which is why I'm sick of it. People saying that i basically have no right to talk about balance as a sin, because of the old assumption sins aren't balance. When in fact they are now more than ever.

killeresras

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Your crit=my zerk crit. Zerk crits and wolf emblem give sins the possibility to do damage similar to casters, but lets not forget the pdef buffs in this game out number the mdef buffs by far. Also lets not forget not all sins have zerk, while ALL veno's has access to your weapon multiplier and over 2x our attack. It's called balance, despite what your emotions may tell you.



Because I've had this same arguement with multiple veno's before and they have all lost, he isn't telling me anything i haven't heard before.

If you want tidal, give up your defensive buffs and abilities, the one thing sins dont really have.

If you want zerk, give up the damage multipliers of a caster, and reduce your base damage by half.

I doubt you would want to do these things, otherwise you wouldn't be playing a veno now would you? Trying to call sins OP in these days is silly, the class has it perks, your class has its perks. However do not downplay the assassins short comings because it has quite a few.

Our 15sec hood for 2 sparks and 15sec 30% dmg reduction for 30 chi totes compare to the non chi costing, long lasting, short cd tidal that blocks almost everything.

Do you forget casters actually have to...cast? We spend a bit of time casting rather than stabbing instantly. Yes we coukd get channelimg, but we would be missing out on something else. Also yes we have range, but now sins even have a range stat which is stupid in my opinion because sins are supposed to be melee hitters not hitting me while im definitly not in hitting range.I'm also not sure if your correct on the whole sins do less dmg than casters, but from my experiences against same geared sins they tend to do way more dmg than I do on them with just the crit and I'm pure magic.

Sins are a lock class that can tele and stealth. These defensive capabilities u speak of are short and I would gladly trade them for tidal. So let's see what would probably happen if we did trade
Sin loses tidal and gets hood and blazing - veno loses hood and blazing, but gets tidal.
Sin uses hood pops from stealth and tries to use lock skill.
tidal blocks and veno purges.
Sin uses blazing barrier and tele stuns.
tidal blocks it.
Veno uses nova and cancels it.
Sin uses ad.
Sin sleeps veno.
tidal blocks it and hp charm recovers hp.
Veno uses bewitch and hits with venomous scarab, lucky scarab, and ironwood scarab.
Sin stealths.
Veno uses stealth pot and uses nova
Sin tries to stun again.
tidal blocks it.
Veno lols and lock kills sin.
Veno wins.
(Feel free to challenge it, but if tidal isn't blocking every debuff in it u need some editing)
I actually think the same would go for any class that had a sage tidal. Sins lock so any class that has it would completely tear sins up. b:shocked the same is true of most classes though which is why they say sins are best 1on1 class. Any class that has to deal with an almost completely anti debuff class will find high difficulty in killing them especially since the class itself is a lock class. Tidal protection by far is the best buff in game and shouldn't last as long as it does on a sin.

what's the point of 15sec dmg reductions if someone can lock u through the full duration.

Sins can hit like 5 times with 1 skill so they actually got worse ty very much. They also have that new skill with no cd and high damage. I don't know exact damage of the first skill, but I have heard plenty of casters say it ticked their charm without them noticing because it hits so many times and you think that's low damage?

Also if 90% of players say sin are op then they probably are. Sure people say that other classes are op for their own reason I do believe I've heard more than any other class that sins are op. Most agree and a few disagree.

This thread is so far off topic f:sweat f:sweat

Marengo - Lost City

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Your crit=my zerk crit.

Get rid of your aps set and wear something up to date finally. Dixi.

killeresras

Marengo - Lost City wrote: »

Get rid of your aps set and wear something up to date finally. Dixi.

Lol right

Chirokee - Archosaur

Devaliah - Raging Tide wrote: »

you forgot veno's also have fire/water skills too even if you don't want to use foxform. another tactic i used to use is various MP burning skills, followed by the genie skill to soul transfuse in others. most HA classes don't even have 2k mp so by the time that the soul transfuse takes place there at about 5-10% hp. **** gear difference when you only have about 1k hp left there isn't much you can do xD damage wise i do think veno's need a few buffs, in mass pk they are amazing but in 1v1 there slightly lacking. i think they should re-enable bramble for pk >.> bramble is nothing compared to the psy reflects. f:shame

Most HA classes have a MP charm nowadays anyway, which makes Chaotic Spirit completely useless. Since you can't even see your targets MP state b:surrender

Rixoth - Archosaur

Devaliah - Raging Tide wrote: »

i think they should re-enable bramble for pk >.> bramble is nothing compared to the psy reflects. f:shame

This. Our main selfbuff we have and it doesnt even work in PK.

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

Marengo - Lost City wrote: »

Get rid of your aps set and wear something up to date finally. Dixi.

How stupid are you? I'm full r9.3 you idiot. Once again you come here having no idea what you are talking about.

Vedovis - Lost City

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

How stupid are you? I'm full r9.3 you idiot. Once again you come here having no idea what you are talking about.

whoa, once again no need to be so rude to marengo

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

Vedovis - Lost City wrote: »

whoa, once again no need to be so rude to marengo

I dislike people that assume I aps everything because I'm a sin. It's idiotic by definition. There is no defense for what she said.

As for Marengo. Go compare the attack damage of a full r9.3 veno to that of a r9.3 sin at +10. The evidence speaks for itself.

killeresras

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

How stupid are you? I'm full r9.3 you idiot. Once again you come here having no idea what you are talking about.

How is anyone supposed to know what you are from forum? Lol calling her an idiot for not knowing your gear makes u sound...b:surrender

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

killeresras wrote: »

How is anyone supposed to know what you are from forum? Lol calling her an idiot for not knowing your gear makes u sound...b:surrender

Because she has commented on post where i have repeated stated to people that i am full r9.3, after making the same mistake she has made. And she has replied to the exact comments, where I stated i was r9.3. It still does not change the fact she was wrong to assume i was an aps sin only. The was a low blow.

Marengo - Lost City

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

How stupid are you? I'm full r9.3 you idiot.

So much pain and rage... http://www.lolwithme.org/?p=159
Someone should take composing medicine

P.S. Full r9.3 sin can't hit a veno harder than she does... I can guess what you feel b:sad b:laugh

Go compare the attack damage of a full r9.3 veno to that of a r9.3 sin at +10. The evidence speaks for itself.

Comparing almost daily in practice, pvping

killeresras

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I dislike people that assume I aps everything because I'm a sin. It's idiotic by definition. There is no defense for what she said.

As for Marengo. Go compare the attack damage of a full r9.3 veno to that of a r9.3 sin at +10. The evidence speaks for itself.

Crit= x2 .Sin zerk for x4 more than any other class. Even the base damage still compares on par with the other physical classes the only difference is that every hit from sin is crit and often zerk crit by.

Also endgame veno damage is very random since r9 venos are forced to use pataka.

Marengo - Lost City

I remember now... Seems it's that sin who said we "choose r9r weap for proc only", that we can use another weap to hit harder (which weap hits harder than r9r he didn't clarify though) claimed venos can stunlock decently in foxform and that he even saw that b:shocked and some other inviable and hilarious things. Nuff said b:sweat

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

Marengo - Lost City wrote: »

Get rid of your aps set and wear something up to date finally. Dixi.

Marengo - Lost City wrote: »

So much pain and rage... http://www.lolwithme.org/?p=159
Someone should take composing medicine

P.S. Full r9.3 sin can't hit a veno harder than she does... I can guess what you feel b:sad b:laugh


Comparing almost daily in practice, pvping

I'm actually laughing at how ignorant you are. Emotions don't translate well over text. Are you agreeing that your were wrong to assume i was an aps only sin? Or are you just avoiding it with ad hominem attacks like usual? It seems to be the latter.

What does this have to do with the sin actually hitting the veno, I only compared the stats of the two. Nice try, *golf clap*.

peckked

Sin's base weapon damage is less than any other physical class... we also get significantly less than others for nuema, war avatars, and meridians. All things included we're about 2500 base damage behind other physical classes. This doesn't bother me in the slightest; just pointing it out.

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

killeresras wrote: »

Crit= x2 .Sin zerk for x4 more than any other class. Even the base damage still compares on par with the other physical classes the only difference is that every hit from sin is crit and often zerk crit by.

Also endgame veno damage is very random since r9 venos are forced to use pataka.

This is an outright lie. My base damage is 15006-17949. Damage of my cleric friend in with the same weapon refine 28k-32k. The only difference is he doesnt have the 100 mag bonus fron r9.3 while i do. Even with that, you can clearly see that his damage would be 2x mine if he had it.

Come with some numbers dude, not assumptions based on what you feel. And sins don't have 100% crit rate, there are plenty of times i don't crit on people. Like zerks and crits arent equally as random? *cough, cough* b:shutup Telling more lies.

Longknife - Harshlands

Naishuitama - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Why would you make a genie for 2 classes only? You'll cripple yourself vs the 8 other classes.

Psychics might commonly do this simply because combined with Psy will, a Psychic is capable of fully resisting 5 of the 10 classes for a good 8 seconds. It can be surprisingly potent in situations that are heavy on venos-mystics or seeker-archer-cleric, though they're still "backup" genie skills that don't see nearly as much use as some others. They're also heavily useful vs. mystics and seekers, both of which rely on specific combos which are predictable and can be appropriately cancelled out with the use of Psy will and those genie skills. Beyond Psychic though? I don't think anyone else gets much use out of them.


As for the OP, git gewd scrub.