Winged Shell Update Needed.

ReckUrWorld - Lost City

Look I know that you have made new skills for pwi and that archers are thankful for leap and stealth but, can we get an update to the skill winged shell?

I mean level 11 is a shield for 1000 damage. WHO HITS FOR 1000 DAMAGE ANYMORE lol?

So the 3rd cast +12 sin with 800 dex on will only zerk crit me for 24k instead of 25?

Im just saying help us out here...

Reck~

Bhavyy - Raging Tide

Could do with a better self buff too that can be overridden by itself. Would also be nice if our crit buffs overrode demon barb crit buff too.

Aeliah - Dreamweaver

But... shells don't work like you'd think. I actually tested this recently, because I was interested to find out how much damage the archer shell absorbs.

On a r9rr+12 jades archer, I have to do over 11k damage before the shell damage absorption overflows. I tested this by doing various combos to the archer with reliable damage: cyclone is 3k, cyclone + extreme poison is 4k, wield thunder + extreme is 5k, single sparked wield is 6k, all the way up to 14k (triple sparked extreme poison tempest). I then got him to put in a shell before each of these combos to see where the overflow started to happen.

Up to 10k damage, the shell absorbed almost all of the damage. A 3k hit was reduced to 1000, and a 10k hit was reduced to 2.2k. Somewhere between 11-13k, overflow occurs, and instead of only doing 2-3k damage, I do 6k damage or so. In other words, any damage over ~11k overflows the absorption limit of the shell, and that damage gets added onto the ~2.5k that was the result of the absorbed damage (hence a 14k hit is (14k-11k + 2.5) = 5.5k).

Anyways, the point is: it says absorbs '1k dmg'. But it is always good for one hit, even if that hit is well above 1k dmg! One, really really big hit. So to say it only absorbs '1k dmg' is erroneous and shows that you haven't properly tested the skill.

Now granted, it isn't as strong as my cleric shell, which is usually good for 2 large hits before breaking. But winged shell is still nowhere near as weak as the description would have you believe. The really great thing about winged shell is that, if you put it in, you won't die from a wizards spark combo in the first hit. The undine strike is NOT strong enough to remove the shell, and then the shell will absorb most of the brunt of the following hit. This can buy you time to put in soul of fire.

To make it absorb '2k' or '3k' damage wouldn't really help you much. It'd still disappear in one hit. Even my own shell sometimes disappears in one hit. The measure I would support would be to reduce its chi cost to the same as wings of protection (my shell), which is 20 or 25 chi. So, don't change winged shell---just make it more user friendly.

Cheers!

opkossy

ReckUrWorld - Lost City wrote: »

Look I know that you have made new skills for pwi and that archers are thankful for leap and stealth but, can we get an update to the skill winged shell?

I mean level 11 is a shield for 1000 damage. WHO HITS FOR 1000 DAMAGE ANYMORE lol?

So the 3rd cast +12 sin with 800 dex on will only zerk crit me for 24k instead of 25?

Im just saying help us out here...

Reck~

That's not how it works.


However it would be nice if what popped it was based on our own HP instead of it popping from the damage a decently geared 9X can do to those who aren't in endgame gear in NW. Especially for the chi cost.

Jarkhen - Archosaur

The damage reduction is great, sure... but a makeshift def charm is rarely worth the 45 chi cost.

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

But... shells don't work like you'd think. I actually tested this recently, because I was interested to find out how much damage the archer shell absorbs.

Cheers!

It's how all shields work: reduce damage massively and last as long as the damage absorption, but the last hit still takes massive damage reduction

back when I had tt90 I had a barb devour + arma me for 4 damage through level 10 winged shell

Jarkhen - Archosaur wrote: »

The damage reduction is great, sure... but a makeshift def charm is rarely worth the 45 chi cost.

Demon Wingspan b:dirty

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver

ReckUrWorld - Lost City wrote: »

I mean level 11 is a shield for 1000 damage. WHO HITS FOR 1000 DAMAGE ANYMORE lol?

So the 3rd cast +12 sin with 800 dex on will only zerk crit me for 24k instead of 25?

Facepalm..

But yeah I kinda like how it works, it's good for one hit but its better than a def charm in some situations

hitting this when charm is nearly cooled down and you are close to dying especially vs casters so you take puny damage and then by the time they channel the next hit your charm ticked = epic

hitting this just as a barb is about to hit arma and you see him b:cry at the damage = epic

Also bonus points for the animation looking cool as **

DarkMarch - Lost City

ReckUrWorld - Lost City wrote: »

So the 3rd cast +12 sin with 800 dex on will only zerk crit me for 24k instead of 25?

... are you serious? You played archer for so many years and still doesn't know how the archer's winged shell works?b:shocked

Unholly - Morai

Jarkhen - Archosaur wrote: »

The damage reduction is great, sure... but a makeshift def charm is rarely worth the 45 chi cost.

With cast time too...

Asterelle - Sanctuary

A 45 chi survival skill on any other class would do a lot more than a defense charm. The skill is junk for its cost.

Bhavyy - Raging Tide

i think the original justification for the 45 chi was the fact that it regenerates mana which is not so useless at lower levels. But since everyone is now mostly 100+ it pretty much becomes a non factor when everyone is charmed/autopotted.
But yeah agreed - a 45 chi skill with a pretty long cast time would do wonders on another class, things like cleric purify...

Suprprutty - Lost City

They should lower the chi cost and/or add some additional effect maybe? and speaking of buffs they should do something about our squad buff too, it's pretty useless being overwritten by everything.

ReckUrWorld - Lost City

DarkMarch - Lost City wrote: »

... are you serious? You played archer for so many years and still doesn't know how the archer's winged shell works?b:shocked

Yup i got 36 thousand kills from not knowing how my skills work. Crazy right?

Alphaben - Raging Tide

I used to use winged shell before I BOA or started spamming skills...Seems to only be good for the mana regen atm...

Anhka - Sanctuary

Lower chan + cast time would be nice, same with Wingspan too. Archer feels way too sluggish to play.

Burnout - Harshlands

If they update winged shell they should update mystic's salvation sac too, 1 spark + 2 seconds + loss of pet for a 4k hp shield is about as bad as winged shell considering the costs (takes 3 secs to resummon pet too).

Something like 4k HP + 20% of base magic attack would be more in line with R9rr damage numbers.

They should make winged shell scale on phy attack also tbh, or max hp.

Asterelle - Sanctuary

Burnout - Harshlands wrote: »

If they update winged shell they should update mystic's salvation sac too, 1 spark + 2 seconds + loss of pet for a 4k hp shield is about as bad as winged shell considering the costs (takes 3 secs to resummon pet too).

Something like 4k HP + 20% of base magic attack would be more in line with R9rr damage numbers.

They should make winged shell scale on phy attack also tbh, or max hp.

Maybe they should buff it with a 9s antistun and a 4.5k falling petal buff.

Ohh wait it already comes with that in addition to the 4k shield (which is 4 times higher than the archer shield). Go troll elsewhere.

Burnout - Harshlands

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Maybe they should buff it with a 9s antistun and a 4.5k falling petal buff.

Ohh wait it already comes with that in addition to the 4k shield (which is 4 times higher than the archer shield). Go troll elsewhere.

The antistun is part of energy leech, not the sac itself, and only lasts 9s if you're sage. Consider what we're giving up when we sac a salvation - 100% p def and 30% crit rate, or 100% m. def and 200% m. attack.

100% of p. def reduces damage by approximately 25%'ish, depending on gears. Wings of Grace, by comparison, reduces damage by 30% to both phy and mag, and it also has a longer duration anti-stun and invinicibility, as well as not requiring a 3-second summon pet spell to use.

I would say the skills are comparable for their spark cost, but if you take what salvation's sac gives, it's not worth it by far.

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

Burnout - Harshlands wrote: »

The antistun is part of energy leech, not the sac itself, and only lasts 9s if you're sage. Consider what we're giving up when we sac a salvation - 100% p def and 30% crit rate, or 100% m. def and 200% m. attack.

100% of p. def reduces damage by approximately 25%'ish, depending on gears. Wings of Grace, by comparison, reduces damage by 30% to both phy and mag, and it also has a longer duration anti-stun and invinicibility, as well as not requiring a 3-second summon pet spell to use.

I would say the skills are comparable for their spark cost, but if you take what salvation's sac gives, it's not worth it by far.

Bad troll is bad. Difference is mystics can heal themselves.

Burnout - Harshlands

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Bad troll is bad. Difference is mystics can heal themselves.

Difference is archers have in-combat stealth, 2 leaps, and 25% more hp. How does a mystic having heals justify a skill being bad?

Suprprutty - Lost City

Burnout - Harshlands wrote: »

Difference is archers have in-combat stealth, 2 leaps, and 25% more hp. How does a mystic having heals justify a skill being bad?

Excuse me while I go laugh.

Burnout - Harshlands

Suprprutty - Lost City wrote: »

Excuse me while I go laugh.

compare mystic killing power to archer killing power, that's why we have heals.

Asterelle - Sanctuary

Burnout - Harshlands wrote: »

Difference is archers have in-combat stealth, 2 leaps, and 25% more hp. How does a mystic having heals justify a skill being bad?

Why do you come to the archer forum to QQ about random mystic **** no one cares about.

Can you read the title of this topic? This thread is about Winged Shell

If you can't stay ON TOPIC just shut up.

Rules of Conduct wrote:

14. Keep posts on-topic.
Keep the topic in mind when you post. Refrain from posting irrelevant information.

Burnout - Harshlands

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Why do you come to the archer forum to QQ about random mystic **** no one cares about.

Can you read the title of this topic? This thread is about Winged Shell

If you can't stay ON TOPIC just shut up.

I actually was on topic. I proposed having both shields scale with m. attack or HP. I don't know why archers would deserve a shield that scaled while mystic's would still stay at 4k.

Bhavyy - Raging Tide

Burnout - Harshlands wrote: »

Difference is archers have in-combat stealth, 2 leaps, and 25% more hp. How does a mystic having heals justify a skill being bad?

25% more HP vs pretty much 100% insta heal skill?
Every class can stealth now and they can move in that stealth too. The archer skill stealth is useless.
2 leaps dont really make a difference if you're still in range which most of the time is the case. They also have a cool down unlike mystic shields and heals.

killeresras

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

A 45 chi survival skill on any other class would do a lot more than a defense charm. The skill is junk for its cost.

Be thankful you don't have to pay 1-2 sparks for your survival like us venos out their.

Aeliah - Dreamweaver

Bhavyy - Raging Tide wrote: »

25% more HP vs pretty much 100% insta heal skill?
Every class can stealth now and they can move in that stealth too. The archer skill stealth is useless.
2 leaps dont really make a difference if you're still in range which most of the time is the case. They also have a cool down unlike mystic shields and heals.

No; archers now have TWO stealths. Any other class wanting to stealth has to (a) use an apoth that you can only get once a day (whereas archer stealth can be used every couple minutes), and (b), it puts apoth into cooldown just like any other apoth does. I might also point out that, unless you are 105, it has very limited practical value (I regularly knock the enemy clerics out of stealth who have tried using it in TW cuz I can see them all, lol).

As a standalone skill, do you *really* want to argue that archer stealth is useless?... just think about that for a moment. I can't think of how often I've seen an archer disappear into stealth to hit you a moment later with a triple spark stun you can't see coming, followed up by the inevitable purge... or the other countless times when an archer has one hit till death, and they stealth and yes, sure I hit that stealth detection apoth immediately, but it still gets the archer to the next charm tick anyways, cuz it takes 3-4 seconds before I can see and target the archer again.

Cheers.

killeresras

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

No; archers now have TWO stealths. Any other class wanting to stealth has to (a) use an apoth that you can only get once a day (whereas archer stealth can be used every couple minutes), and (b), it puts apoth into cooldown just like any other apoth does. I might also point out that, unless you are 105, it has very limited practical value (I regularly knock the enemy clerics out of stealth who have tried using it in TW cuz I can see them all, lol).

As a standalone skill, do you *really* want to argue that archer stealth is useless?... just think about that for a moment. I can't think of how often I've seen an archer disappear into stealth to hit you a moment later with a triple spark stun you can't see coming, followed up by the inevitable purge... or the other countless times when an archer has one hit till death, and they stealth and yes, sure I hit that stealth detection apoth immediately, but it still gets the archer to the next charm tick anyways, cuz it takes 3-4 seconds before I can see and target the archer again.

Cheers.

Amen to that. Lol someone trying to claim stealth is useless and they deserve better that is like the single best protection skill a class can have it even scores u some free shots on your unsuspecting victim.

OK, but back to shell.
Shell is fine the way it is 45 chi is nothing for a pretty much survive against all odds skill.
Again wish veno hood only cost 45 chi for only lasting 15sec

Jarkhen - Archosaur

killeresras wrote: »

Amen to that. Lol someone trying to claim stealth is useless and they deserve better that is like the single best protection skill a class can have it even scores u some free shots on your unsuspecting victim.

OK, but back to shell.
Shell is fine the way it is 45 chi is nothing for a pretty much survive against all odds skill.
Again wish veno hood only cost 45 chi for only lasting 15sec

15s vs 1 hit... you tell me which you'd prefer.

opkossy

Jarkhen - Archosaur wrote: »

15s of damage reduction AND a reflect large enough that people would prefer to kite or keep you locked down with stuns instead of bothering to attack vs 1 hit that will be popped by anything including a weak hit right before whatever you were worried about... you tell me which you'd prefer.

Fixed that for you.

killeresras

Jarkhen - Archosaur wrote: »

15s vs 1 hit... you tell me which you'd prefer.

It's 15sec for 2 sparks. Your complaining about 45 chi for a life saver skill. After u use it amazing u still have 355 chi to go which somehow u can't possibly make up in a few sec. I'd definitely trade, u can use 2 sparks for for 15sec of protection which someone could easily wait off or purge. If u get purged of she'll eh 45 chi lost. So hmu if they ever make it possible to trade skills ^^

OPKossy wrote: »

Fixed that for you.

It depends where hood is being used for that reflect thing spoken of and it's 2 sparks and as u said just avoid them for 15sec or if u r archer u r still probably doing good dmg and on top of it u will probably purge it. Bam they wasted 2 sparks for nothing.