Lunar BH

xoinix

Hi folks. I have a quick question. As I've recently lvled to 100 I was wondering if my current gear is good enough for a lunar BH run. I do just fine in SoT/Delta/Abba. But people say Lunar is a bit harder. b:shocked

Here is my current gear set up
No buffs-http://pwcalc.com/b3004c64ae320c30
Buffed- http://pwcalc.com/1147bd8798411de2

A few corrections since the site hasn't updated to the Mandarin system
-My p.def unbuffed is 1.7k
-HP unbuffed is 4.4k
--My HP buffed with a lvl 10 is abt 5.6. With a lvl 11 it is 5.8--

So is this good enough for a successful Lunar run or should I wait until I've refined/sharded my gear better.

If my gear is good enough as is, do I need to bring anything to the lunar run such as apoths (other than 300k)?

P.S. Yes I know my refines are **** and I should shard my gear. And I am. However I'm only putting in good shards such as immaculates which take a bit of time to get.b:cry

Untamed_pain - Archosaur

Yeah my cleric is 101 with 5.4k hp. I do just fine unless the squad wipe cuz they squishy lol. Other then that yep as long as you know how to play your cleric and can take a hit or 2.

Desdi - Sanctuary

Honestly I would suggest getting the gear to +3 which is super easy and then shard with flawless if budget is a problem. This should place your unbuffed HP at around 4.4k so that will give you over 5k HP buffed.

Assuming you're getting G16 eventually, don't bother sharding with immaculate right now. Also, if G16 is your endgame gear you might want to shard it with Morai shards instead or, perhaps, shard it with flawless and run weekly to eventually replace it with incomparable (1.5mil per shard with weeklies).

If farming G16 is taking too long, I would probably try to use tienkang and +5 all the gear. If not then just stick to +3. I'd suggest trying to +5 your cape, belt and necklace though since you'll probably stick with them for a while.

First and second boss should be ok but if you do last boss you have high chances of dying from the AOE (not sure if doing it ranged the AOE is safer, been a while). Chances are that you'll do full lunar run because most people do so due to the EoD drop at the end.

As far as pulls are concerned, if no mobs aggro you, you should be able to live.

xoinix

Untamed_pain - Archosaur wrote: »

Yeah my cleric is 101 with 5.4k hp. I do just fine unless the squad wipe cuz they squishy lol. Other then that yep as long as you know how to play your cleric and can take a hit or 2.

Lol thanks
b:victory

xoinix

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

Honestly I would suggest getting the gear to +3 which is super easy and then shard with flawless if budget is a problem. This should place your unbuffed HP at around 4.4k so that will give you over 5k HP buffed.

Assuming you're getting G16 eventually, don't bother sharding with immaculate right now. Also, if G16 is your endgame gear you might want to shard it with Morai shards instead or, perhaps, shard it with flawless and run weekly to eventually replace it with incomparable (1.5mil per shard with weeklies).

If farming G16 is taking too long, I would probably try to use tienkang and +5 all the gear. If not then just stick to +3. I'd suggest trying to +5 your cape, belt and necklace though since you'll probably stick with them for a while.

First and second boss should be ok but if you do last boss you have high chances of dying from the AOE (not sure if doing it ranged the AOE is safer, been a while). Chances are that you'll do full lunar run because most people do so due to the EoD drop at the end.

As far as pulls are concerned, if no mobs aggro you, you should be able to live.

Ok ty for the advice. And Yes my longer goal is full g16.

For the g15 parts of my gear do you think I should shard flawless instead of imacs?

The reason my gear is so poor on refines and shards is because I went broke actually getting the gear :P. Hopefully in a few weeks when I have some extra money I can properly shard/refine it.

My only actual experience involving lunar is from YouTube so I'll take your word on that AOE.

Desdi - Sanctuary

xoinix wrote: »

Ok ty for the advice. And Yes my longer goal is full g16.

For the g15 parts of my gear do you think I should shard flawless instead of imacs?

The reason my gear is so poor on refines and shards is because I went broke actually getting the gear :P. Hopefully in a few weeks when I have some extra money I can properly shard/refine it.

My only actual experience involving lunar is from YouTube so I'll take your word on that AOE.

I'll have to run lunar again to check xD I just remember having a 4k HP cleric dying to the AOE through BB but it's been ages since I've run it. Doing it ranged is probably safe.

I'd say go full flawless for the time being, the little extra from immaculate won't add much unless you do full immaculate which would be a waste when you want to upgrade to G16 later.

xoinix

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'll have to run lunar again to check xD I just remember having a 4k HP cleric dying to the AOE through BB but it's been ages since I've run it. Doing it ranged is probably safe.

I'd say go full flawless for the time being, the little extra from immaculate won't add much unless you do full immaculate which would be a waste when you want to upgrade to G16 later.

Okk Thank you Desdi b:victory

Quandry - Raging Tide

ummm im sure lunar as an instance was completed long before nirv T3 was even a 'pipe-dream' - tho.......+5 refines is easy with mirages ijs, give u that extra bit of survivability.

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

Lunar was buffed hard when G16 was released, but yes, it's still doable with G15

Recommendations: +3 all your gear with mirages. Should be done after about 2 days of mirage rewards.

Swap mdef mold cape for 97 pdef mold cape

Finish your entire OHT culti and get the OHT belt because that's a great placeholder. Otherwise 12mil or so will nab you a G14 Jungle Belt (if you have level 6 craftsman) that's as good as the warsong G14 one

Get a G15 hat and it should drastically boost your survivability

Eoria - Harshlands

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Lunar was buffed hard when G16 was released, but yes, it's still doable with G15

Minus the vile versions of the bosses, Lunar hasn't changed since they dumbed it down into 3 valleys per instance instead of a potential 8.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

Lunar hasn't changed since they dumbed it down into 3 valleys per instance instead of a potential 8.

My first time through Lunar I was a level 77 cleric, had a level 88 BM as a tank and it was reasonably successful. This was probably about 3 years ago.

OPs gear will be fine, but as others have stated there is very little reason not to +3 your gear (and +5 the weapon) as it costs almost nothing. The mobs don't aoe and the boss aoes are magical and weak. All you have to do it make sure you stay behind the barb and let him aggro before you heal, then keep him alive. He dies, you die. Make sure you have a decent holy path genie (at least 2 HPs in a row, pref 3) and possibly carry speed apoths. Also make sure you have cloud eruption to keep your chi full for the next bb.

For a cleric, pretty much all Lunar is 3 zhen pulls where they bubble, followed by 3 bosses where they bubble. Easy. The hardest thing is coordinating where your barb is going to stop, and thats taken care of with some quick communication at the start.

And as much as people criticize FCC for making hyper nubs, one thing it did teach clerics was to stack before a pull. Clerics forget how to IH stack the tank before pulling and I always want to send them back to FCC to "learn their skills". It makes a reasonable difference in Lunar.

xoinix

Just an update.

I did lunar and it was one of the worst instances EVER b:sad

I dunno if it was b/c the barb was undergeard(was still in tt90/ttgold/mold gear. G15 weap) and he didn't know what he was doing but every pull he would die or because I guess Im not as good as I thought. It got to the point we had to boot the sin and bring in a second seek until the pulls were done and bring the sin back.

The mystic and I tried out best to keep everyone up but it just didn't happen. I don't know about other clerics but when people die I take it as a personal "fail" of sorts. Unless they are ridiculously undergeard (ex still in tt80 doing SoT/abba - yea it happened) or they keep taking aggro. While I do appreciate the mystic helping heal I am the main healer which means its my job and when people die I feel like I'm not doing that job.

But alas lunar made me feel like a complete and utter noob and after that experience I'd rather just pay the 3mil for an EoD b:shutup

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

xoinix wrote: »

Just an update.

I did lunar and it was one of the worst instances EVER b:sad

I dunno if it was b/c the barb was undergeard(was still in tt90/ttgold/mold gear. G15 weap Let me gues,, 2X phys ornaments and tried to pull like he was a legit catabarb?) and he didn't know what he was doing but every pull he would die or because I guess Im not as good as I thought You can't keep something alive if it has like 5K mag def fully buffed in Lunar pulls. It got to the point we had to boot the sin and bring in a second seek **** squad if you need 2 seekers to stay alive for mobs. Sounds like typical pubbie BH squad until the pulls were done and bring the sin back.

The mystic and I tried out best to keep everyone up but it just didn't happen. I don't know about other clerics but when people die I take it as a personal "fail" of sorts. Unless they are ridiculously undergeard (ex still in tt80 doing SoT/abba - yea it happened) or they keep taking aggro. While I do appreciate the mystic helping heal I am the main healer which means its my job and when people die I feel like I'm not doing that job. Let them die if they don't do their part; barb should not be trying to pull more than 2-3 groups with that kind of gear. It's probably also +3 2 socket flawless shards lol.

But alas lunar made me feel like a complete and utter noob and after that experience I'd rather just pay the 3mil for an EoD b:shutup Do lunar during 2X, get 2 EOD for the price of 1 run

If squad can't handle the damage you should be going 1 group at a time

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

xoinix wrote: »

Just an update.

I did lunar and it was one of the worst instances EVER b:sad

The mystic

Oh, there's your problem.

Quick story, my barb has pulled Lunar probably 50-80 times. Not really an issue for me. A couple times ago I had a cleric I consider pro in my squad, his wife, and a couple randoms while I pulled. I do the pull, invoke, roar, start aoeing. The mystic and veno both use seal skills (Gale Force and Parasitic) and I go from 30 mobs on me I've been tanking just fine for 45 seconds to having 30 mobs all doing ranged magic attacks. So I die then the squad wipes.

"Do a smaller pull" complains the veno. No. I've done this pull just fine 50 other times and once bb is up I can tank them all day as long as they're not sealed and become magic and at that point I can solo. I ask politely to not seal the mobs. I pull again. Again the mobs get sealed This time they go so far out of bubble a few reset, then reaggro on the cleric in the bubble and drop it. He scrambles. And starts healing randoms even though I have all the aggro, and I die followed by a squad wipe. The archer, who is the clerics game wife whispers me and tells me she is borrowing the cleric's account to teach her rl hubby how to play and he is the cleric. Still, both of us agree what the cleric did was fine except for the veno sealing followed by mystic seals causing all the mobs to either reset or become magical.

The veno again complains about it being too large of a pull while the squad rages at the mystic and veno over the seals. I get paint, comfortable I can solo about 5-8 mobs, and start clearing back to the squad while the cleric returns. Now... I don't have cleric buffs and am tanking about 10 mobs just fine on paint alone so I know its not an issue with my defenses. I don't see the cleric arrive though and they start healing me prior to me aggroing everything and prior to even healing themselves. Again, its a cleric in training. They die and have to walk back. The veno rage quits, everyone yells at the mystic to stop sealing... We replace the veno with a second sin.

Then I pulled the entire instance (about 35 mobs) and with no seals I was able to tank it and everything went fine.

I know mystics only have 2 aoes and both seal, but it kills barbs. I feel bad telling them I'd rather they don't attack and to just use pets/plants and single attacks unless GF will absolutely kill everything they hit (its a strong attack, good for a finish blow). But they make zhenning so hard and Lunar is a zhenning instance. Don't get discouraged by one fail.

tweakz

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

I know mystics only have 2 aoes

Stop talking.

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

Thicket, Gale force, Cragglord, lyse punishing sting

the latter two are both not going to seal, but sting does rather meh damage. Would rather lyse spidervine or creepe0r for debuffs first, I think

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Thicket, Gale force, Cragglord, lyse punishing sting

the latter two are both not going to seal, but sting does rather meh damage. Would rather lyse spidervine or creepe0r for debuffs first, I think

Well, that's an incomplete list, too.

Two aoe ~>attacks<~. If we go into pet attacks and plants they have... 3 pet aoes, 4 plant aoes, double that with lysings. May as well count all the possible genie aoe attacks and debuffs a mystic can use at this point too.... My point stands. I'm not going to Punishing Sting any 1-2m hp mobs to death, and I wasn't talking plant debuffs as aoes. I also wasn't quite considering lysing or pet aoes as the mystics attack since while lysing does deal damage its pretty poor and the real reason you use it is for the higher debuff rate. It's also kind of indirect that you're not really attacking mobs you're lysing plants so I wasn't considering it a direct aoe on the mobs. And the pets aoes are the pets attacks. People are just being too specific and nit picky here.

My normal aoe combo, btw, is Befuddling->Lysing (if there is a BM or veno in squad because they have better aoe def debuffs)->Spider Vine-> Vital Herb-> Rapid growth and start single target dding. I also (usually) use Storm Mistress for their aoe instead of Cragg, simply because Cragg costs 2 sparks. Chi preference and mystics aren't that easy to build chi on and I don't have to resummon a pet after 20 seconds like I would with Cragg. When mobs are about 80% dead I'll GF.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Oh, there's your problem.

Quick story, my barb has pulled Lunar probably 50-80 times. Not really an issue for me. A couple times ago I had a cleric I consider pro in my squad, his wife, and a couple randoms while I pulled. I do the pull, invoke, roar, start aoeing. The mystic and veno both use seal skills (Gale Force and Parasitic) and I go from 30 mobs on me I've been tanking just fine for 45 seconds to having 30 mobs all doing ranged magic attacks. So I die then the squad wipes.

"Do a smaller pull" complains the veno. No. I've done this pull just fine 50 other times and once bb is up I can tank them all day as long as they're not sealed and become magic and at that point I can solo. I ask politely to not seal the mobs. I pull again. Again the mobs get sealed This time they go so far out of bubble a few reset, then reaggro on the cleric in the bubble and drop it. He scrambles. And starts healing randoms even though I have all the aggro, and I die followed by a squad wipe. The archer, who is the clerics game wife whispers me and tells me she is borrowing the cleric's account to teach her rl hubby how to play and he is the cleric. Still, both of us agree what the cleric did was fine except for the veno sealing followed by mystic seals causing all the mobs to either reset or become magical.

The veno again complains about it being too large of a pull while the squad rages at the mystic and veno over the seals. I get paint, comfortable I can solo about 5-8 mobs, and start clearing back to the squad while the cleric returns. Now... I don't have cleric buffs and am tanking about 10 mobs just fine on paint alone so I know its not an issue with my defenses. I don't see the cleric arrive though and they start healing me prior to me aggroing everything and prior to even healing themselves. Again, its a cleric in training. They die and have to walk back. The veno rage quits, everyone yells at the mystic to stop sealing... We replace the veno with a second sin.

Then I pulled the entire instance (about 35 mobs) and with no seals I was able to tank it and everything went fine.

I know mystics only have 2 aoes and both seal, but it kills barbs. I feel bad telling them I'd rather they don't attack and to just use pets/plants and single attacks unless GF will absolutely kill everything they hit (its a strong attack, good for a finish blow). But they make zhenning so hard and Lunar is a zhenning instance. Don't get discouraged by one fail.

If you can't deal with mystic AOE's, don't invite mystics.

It's not a mystic's fault the developers made their seals cause mobs to spaz-kite so violently.

When I'm on my mystic I generally see first if there is someone with better aoe's than me. For example, if I'm on a ranged pull if there is a better geared wiz or seeker, I will supplement their damage and survival with lysing plants (creeper+spidervine) and use cragglord or storm mistress for AOE's just to try and keep mobs within their AOE range -- coupled with possibly dropping vital or individually managing mobs (moving some mobs outside AOE into AOE range w/quake or hitting them individually).

OTOH, if there's no one who hits harder than my mystic, the party simply deals with the kiting and do their best. If I were playing a barb with a mystic who AOE'd I'd let them have the aggro (if they can survive it, great, if not, they'll learn they can't handle it and change their approach) and just debuff mob and do the same control methods to keep mobs grouped up better and debuffed so they die faster.

Honestly this stuff is really situational, and IMO common sense, I tend to run only with my wife and our alts only, or with other specific r9s3 guildies, so I don't really encounter many idiots or people who can't cope with mobs being sealed and running all over.

xoinix

I don't know what type of mystics you guys play with but the one who ran lunar with me did nothing but help heal. All she did was heal in fact b/c I told her this was my first run. The only AOE was her heals and her salvation's AOE forceshield. Not galeforce. She made one mistake that actually wasn't her fault entirely the barb ran off cannonball style into the mobs a second before she could cast falling petals so aggro went to her which was basically squad wipe. She was a demon and had FP demon so it would last longer than my IH stacked. At the time I didn't know what she meant but once I looked I saw that demon FP lasts 4mins which is awesome.

After a few days of talking it over with my fac and friends I think fault falls squarely on the barbs shoulders. As I said before his gear wasn't exactly up-to-date and I don't think he had a clue what he was doing. I'm going to assume he thought the pulls were like FC mobs. I don't think he knew how hard they hit though.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If you can't deal with mystic AOE's, don't invite mystics.

It's not a mystic's fault the developers made their seals cause mobs to spaz-kite so violently.

I completely agree here and that's why I would feel bad neglecting the class. It's not a mystic's fault their best damage aoes also cause the mobs to spread, but it is their choice to use them. So what I ask is for them to hold off using them till the mobs are nearly dead and use them for killing blows only. A huge reason I went demon on my mystic is because of GF's increased freeze rate. Combine that with Thicket and nothing moves and with Thickets curse effect most things die before they can actually kite.

One thing that appealed to me about playing mystic is my server really doesn't have many good mystics. Its still a highly neglected class and so bad mystics probably don't ever get the chance to run with good mystics and see where they can improve.

When I'm on my mystic I generally see first if there is someone with better aoe's than me. For example, if I'm on a ranged pull if there is a better geared wiz or seeker, I will supplement their damage and survival with lysing plants (creeper+spidervine) and use cragglord or storm mistress for AOE's just to try and keep mobs within their AOE range -- coupled with possibly dropping vital or individually managing mobs (moving some mobs outside AOE into AOE range w/quake or hitting them individually).

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

OTOH, if there's no one who hits harder than my mystic, the party simply deals with the kiting and do their best. If I were playing a barb with a mystic who AOE'd I'd let them have the aggro (if they can survive it, great, if not, they'll learn they can't handle it and change their approach) and just debuff mob and do the same control methods to keep mobs grouped up better and debuffed so they die faster.

A few things are wrong with this. First, the mobs run from the tank, not the person who sealed them. If the barb is in the middle, that means they run in a full 360 degrees from each other and how far do you think they can get in 1 seal? 20m? So now you have mobs spread out 40m apart from each other and your 1 aoe has killed the zhen. You've basically ruined the entire point of pulling and may as well have done the mobs 1 by 1 from the start.

Second, it doesn't matter if you hit more than another party member because you probably don't hit more than all 5 (without the cleric). You also have limited aoes and eventualy run into both cooldowns and chi problems. Sure, you might out dd at the start but once you start having to take time to resummon pets and wait on cd others will catch up and out dd you. You may only continue to out dd the melees because now they spend more time running than dding, so your 1 or 2 attacks have also reduce their damage output to effectively zero.

Third, most squads are smart enough to stack debuffs together at the start. HFs, myriads, Glacial Spikes... Even though HF isn't particularly hard hitting as a debuff it contributes more than just its damage. Not being able to hit a mob while it runs away ruins the point of stacking debuffs and by the time the mob comes back to be attacked the debuffs are gone.

Lastly, people don't learn from 1 death, lol. Take sin aggro, for example. People complained about them pulling aggro and dieing for years and repeatedly doing it. A mystic pulling aggro and dying probably would teach them nothing and they'd just blame the barb.

I'm not entirely against GF or Thicket. As you said, it's situational and some judgement has to be used. I admit it hits very hard and combined with Invigorate and Rapid Growth it is an excellent finishing move and probably should be held either as a finishing move or more a defensive move (seal the mobs to save the barb) and not as standard dd spam.

Aeliah - Dreamweaver

The caveat to all of this, of course, is if the mystic in question has their Lucky Break and a nicely refined r9rr weapon. At that point, if they use their gale force on top of hf, they can take mobs from 1mil > 250k in a single hit. At this point, it becomes more than OK to use gale force at the start, I actually expect and like it. Any other half-decent aoes from the other squad members will often kill mobs before the hf even finishes.

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The caveat to all of this, of course, is if the mystic in question has their Lucky Break and a nicely refined r9rr weapon. At that point, if they use their gale force on top of hf, they can take mobs from 1mil > 250k in a single hit. At this point, it becomes more than OK to use gale force at the start, I actually expect and like it. Any other half-decent aoes from the other squad members will often kill mobs before the hf even finishes.

Most of us live in a world where armor is +3 with 2 flawless citrines and weapon is G15+4