Venomancer PVP Discussion and Videos

PanboyAir - Sanctuary

Hi, making a thread because I don't see much Venomancer PVP content. A lot of people theorize about things, but never really discuss the plausibility. Let's start a PVP discussion on builds, combos, sage/demon, pets, class match ups.

If anyone has questions, I can talk, or others can contribute as well.

I'm a Sage Veno. It seems like the consensus is that demon venos are better for PVP, but I like to play sage, and I work with what I've got.

Here's a link to my gears: http://pwcalc.com/42e7abf150071380
Just R9RR +9 with flawless shards. But you'd never guess from the amount of people on server who are intimidated by me. (Sanctuary people, come@mebro)b:laugh

As for class match-ups, I think I'm fairly knowledgeable. Most people have problems with sins, I pretty much don't die to R9RR +12 sins at all --being that I was a sin in my past life. But because of the amount of outs that sins have from their skills, sometimes the most I can do is chase them to safe zone.

Anyways, to start this thread off, let me show you guys a fun trick with crush vigor in PVP (brief tutorial at the end).

My own PvP videos:

Crush Vigor

Myriad

Parasitic Nova

Eruption

30s Cooldown

Blackup


PWI Venomancer Youtube channels:
Sage:
SmurfJeregen's Channel Dreamweaver

SparkleCat's Channel Harshlands

JustAllEvil's Channel Harshlands

FoxsGurl Dreamweaver

Womansley's Channel Sanctuary

Demon:
Desdi's Channel Sanctuary

UrHeart's Channel Sanctuary

Leonise's Channel Heaven's Tear [Inactive]

Marengo's Channel Lost City

Other Venomancer PvP links:
arty's venomancer PvP thread
Venomancer vs Psychic
Desiree's PvP thread
Rainbow's Channel (Demon)
Ronearmary's Channel (Demon)
Nat's Channel (Sage)
Hydra's Channel (Demon)
Flame's Channel (Sage)

TCHP - Lost City

I made my veno old style, in aa mode. All my gear has channel. I'm at 61% channel so far and I plan on reaching around 75 % when I find what I need.

I played Ep since the start of this game, and I never had this much fun whit a class since R8 came out. Venos are awesome, they can survive fairly easy imo.

Even if I have gear whit no lv protection I can still be a challenge. Sure most high gear player will 1 shot me ( for now ) but I do have more success on my veno then I have on my Ep whit partial nv gear.

Sailorkitty is sage, can build 3 spark in less then 1 minute. The damage she does is low for now. But the capacity to control opponent is very high. I use Occult ice on my genie to cover the cd of skill.

Has for sage/demon vs pve/pvp. I don't think it makes a big difference now. Back in the days people had only 12k hp max, and no lv of protection, lower defense. Today whit r9 and nv around I don't think it make a huge difference. Sure most demon skill are made to deal damage faster. But sage veno build chi so fast now whit the new fox form, that you can 3 spark often, use shield faster etc.

I don't really have any problem whit any class ( except for the 1 shot thing )

I'm getting use to the anti stun skill I put on my genie, 80% of the time I have time to cast defensive shield and players just take them self out.

Desdi - Sanctuary

Time to hide, game husband invaded forums b:shocked

On a side note, I'm gonna throw this link out here from arty's old PvP discussion thread which unfortunately died but can be used for reference as it had some interesting posts too.

And I'm fairly certain most people agree that both cultivation paths rely mostly on playstyle and your ability to take advantage of what said path offers.

SmurfJegeren - Dreamweaver

I was actually gonna hop by to make a thread like this, just to see I been cut off b:cry

Bad jokes aside, I would love to improve my playing style for PvP, but tbh; I hardly find any tutorial good enough :x Especially since pretty much every battle would need a page or two to cover all the possibilities. But I would like to post out some vids too, not for teaching others, but for feedback so I can learn b:surrender

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCV9DguJZ0LGMlv5IorA5kVg

Ive only just started this channel, so not too many vids out, but I hope the PvP oriented peeps here got time to pop by and have a look, n to send some feedback

(atm uploading one clip as well, so the two I have there get company)

Desdi - Sanctuary

SmurfJegeren - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I was actually gonna hop by to make a thread like this, just to see I been cut off b:cry

Bad jokes aside, I would love to improve my playing style for PvP, but tbh; I hardly find any tutorial good enough :x Especially since pretty much every battle would need a page or two to cover all the possibilities. But I would like to post out some vids too, not for teaching others, but for feedback so I can learn b:surrender

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCV9DguJZ0LGMlv5IorA5kVg

Ive only just started this channel, so not too many vids out, but I hope the PvP oriented peeps here got time to pop by and have a look, n to send some feedback

(atm uploading one clip as well, so the two I have there get company)

There's not much footage to make a good assessment but I've noticed you weren't using Myriad Rainbow (both human and fox one). They might be random but they have a short cooldown and are instant. It should be especially easy for a Sage Venomancer as they can manage their chi easier than Demons. I must say I was surprised you actually used a chi pot as Sage.

Other skills you seem to miss are Bewitch and Chi Burn which, again, are very good skills for PvP and you should try to get your hands on them. Chi Burn and Crush Vigor can mess up the opponent's chi horribly (throwing Mo Zun Taunt's into the play for Demons in the combo) and Bewitch forces Barbarians/Venomancers/Clerics out of True Form/Fox Form/UVD and cancels flight. It also has a 27m range.

I'd recommend Fortify on your genie for Fortify + IG/Feral Concentration combos. Natural Synergy is the only anti-stun for a Sage but it has a 120 second cooldown and requires a pet thus it's not very reliable. There's no Purify proc weapon into the play either.

Parasitic Nova also makes an excellent crowd control skill but like I said, lack of footage makes me unable to make a good assessment so I don't know how much you use it.

Lastly, while I have no intentions of judging the way you play, I'd advice to put more stuff on your hotkeys such as pots, flight, more skills etc. to avoid opening other windows during fights.

What surprised me is that you seem to be playing like a AA Venomancer that focuses on offense. I don't know if this is lack of footage or not very threatening opponents or just lack of intense fights but as a HA Venomancer I'd have expected/thought you'd be focusing much more on fox form skills and support rather than offense and casting.

Are you only doing NW by the way, or do you also TW/PK?

Sparklecat - Harshlands

b:sad I only have two Tw videos since I've been busy lately. I wish I recorded some pvp videos . Anyways, here they are. Feel free to comment on anything I can do to improveb:cute.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=c4-feed-u&v=F7VWIx3be3U
http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=c4-feed-u&v=-i2vrdvOVZg

SmurfJegeren - Dreamweaver

Since dreamweaver is a pve server, the pk enviroment is generally outpowering g16 or the occasional stealth sin. I used to TW, and can generally fend off in that arena. The reason I lack footage is cause I have a low end computer and hence: footage takes a long time to edit. With that all said:

Fox form debuffs are used, but I cant always rely on the help of my team. Purge is what I use the most, but I try to rely on my own skill for killing as well. Thats also why im often casting, as the range is superior, and it have more CC than fox skills. Myriad I use now and then, but only fox form version.

I dont have chi burn or puffbird; last one cause I simply been too lazy to farm it. Chi pots is just neat, as building chi always takes time. And I like to use chi using skills

I will upload more movies. And appreciate the feedback. Ill certainly look into chi burn. Tho I feel sage crush vigor does a good job as well (with blazing barrier and bramble; it actually drains twice per time a melee hits me). I will upload more videos when I can tonight.

Desdi - Sanctuary

Since this is kinda turning into a PVP video compilation thread I'll throw this out here from another thread so it won't get lost;

These are my PvP videos. I don't upload often though because I don't have time to TW/NW these days. Not much really.

I also know this person who appears to have returned. TW/NW videos.

There's also this person but they haven't uploaded in a while.

Lastly, this one, mainly TW videos.

I know a few other channels but they are mostly old PvP stuff so I don't know if there's any other venomancer that uploads recent videos. Most videos I find are old that date back before new pets, Morai and skill rebalance.

Desdi - Sanctuary

SmurfJegeren - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Since dreamweaver is a pve server, the pk enviroment is generally outpowering g16 or the occasional stealth sin. I used to TW, and can generally fend off in that arena. The reason I lack footage is cause I have a low end computer and hence: footage takes a long time to edit. With that all said:

Fox form debuffs are used, but I cant always rely on the help of my team. Purge is what I use the most, but I try to rely on my own skill for killing as well. Thats also why im often casting, as the range is superior, and it have more CC than fox skills. Myriad I use now and then, but only fox form version.

I dont have chi burn or puffbird; last one cause I simply been too lazy to farm it. Chi pots is just neat, as building chi always takes time. And I like to use chi using skills

I will upload more movies. And appreciate the feedback. Ill certainly look into chi burn. Tho I feel sage crush vigor does a good job as well (with blazing barrier and bramble; it actually drains twice per time a melee hits me). I will upload more videos when I can tonight.

I see and yeah like I said there wasn't much so I couldn't really tell if that was really your playstyle or it was simply due to the kind of opponents/fights you had.

The reason I asked about the way you played your HA Venomancer was out of curiosity. The class is quite versatile and I like that (despite the game itself pushing AA with R9r3) and I used to have LA (later HA) Venomancer myself but I never tried it out in PvP as I decided to stick to this Venomancer instead which followed the Demon pure-magic R9r3 route.

I'd be much more focused in fox form and support as HA but in cases like NW when your squad wouldn't always be around, I can see why you'd get more offensive.

TCHP - Lost City

how ever you play this game there is only 2 way to win battle.
1 Control
2 Massive damage

The veno has a lot of useful skill and you just need to know when to use them.

I personally like sending my nix whit bleed attack, while I use Lucky scarab, then seal the target whit parasitic nova. It gives me enough time to switch and approach a player to use purify, and other skill depending on the class. The fun part is trying to time the nix stun skill and the genie stun skill so that the cd wear off. When Purge is done, I switch to resistance skill and immunity pot to deal rapid damage.

SmurfJegeren - Dreamweaver

I have nkw finished uploading). I hope itll show some more sides of my fighting, since it got both a nearly 2 minute duel with a BM as well as assisting the big guns in taking down the targets b:shutup

I have to admit, I find the duels with people, or 1v2-3 more fun to play than when Im just someones stepping stone in dealing damage. Kinda wish they would bring the now nerfed bramble back to open world PvP, but thats not gonna happen :c

JustAllEvil - Harshlands

I actually like sage veno in PvP, it's particularly nice when people want to group up for me an be purged all at once.

Sadly, haven't been able to find sage nova or summer spirit.

I only have two PvP videos up (group PvP) but hope to add more to my channel soon:
http://www.youtube.com/user/NomNomVeggies

I'm really liking the new lucky coins feature of engraving more pdef, on HL it's a ton of sins/archers in PvP so more pdef is useful!

By far not the best veno on the server, but PvPing on veno is much more fun than sin (faceroll keyboard).

Timing is *really* important with venos though ;x

SmurfJegeren - Dreamweaver

I think you have same "problem" I do with not enough footage. I dunno much about your build but ill take a wild guess at R9rr?

I do notice you seem reluctant to leave fox form, making you run around more waiting for cooldowns (?). Just remember to use both forms actively, as human form also got your best CC skills (we only got a handful so should max what you can with them). Nova and lucky scarab can buy time, and let you hood or blazing to lower the damage thats about to hit you again. Frost scarab is actually pretty good too, I just forget to use it most of time (I admit my faults at least ) The speed reduction can stop people trying to kite you as an example.

JustAllEvil - Harshlands

SmurfJegeren - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I think you have same "problem" I do with not enough footage. I dunno much about your build but ill take a wild guess at R9rr?

I do notice you seem reluctant to leave fox form, making you run around more waiting for cooldowns (?). Just remember to use both forms actively, as human form also got your best CC skills (we only got a handful so should max what you can with them). Nova and lucky scarab can buy time, and let you hood or blazing to lower the damage thats about to hit you again. Frost scarab is actually pretty good too, I just forget to use it most of time (I admit my faults at least ) The speed reduction can stop people trying to kite you as an example.

I do leave fox a lot more in smaller PK, just hard in huge group PvP like that (there's a billion archers)

And yes, r9rr +10, with a combo of DoD/Garnets and a few Vit Stones :x

Bramble hood is extremely useful, I agree with you there. Using against Physical DDs is a life saver...

SmurfJegeren - Dreamweaver

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUOoDbM5pMk

My latest vid. Im relatively sure the BM in the first 3 min or so is recast R9, but I Im not able to log on and ask him to be sure atm :x

@JustAllEvil - I sort of noticed, you havent farmed Blazing barrier yet? Just curious

JustAllEvil - Harshlands

SmurfJegeren - Dreamweaver wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUOoDbM5pMk

My latest vid. Im relatively sure the BM in the first 3 min or so is recast R9, but I Im not able to log on and ask him to be sure atm :x

@JustAllEvil - I sort of noticed, you havent farmed Blazing barrier yet? Just curious

No, I haven't.

Nice video, referred back to your earlier post to double check; my only real suggestion (I'm not too familiar with HA venos) is that you really may want to farm bewitch (the pufferbird/tiger skill). It's much easier to control clerics that way ;o

SmurfJegeren - Dreamweaver

Well hooray for lazy venos b:chuckle

Atm I almost wanna just wait for it to appear in botique bidding hall. But I am slowly farming puffbird(only at 1.5k or so out of the 3.5k needed) I honestly feel I have more trouble controlling pretty much any other class than clerics. The cleric in my latest video is high end r9rr, and still did... okay vs. Him I feel

Jacerai - Dreamweaver

SmurfJegeren - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Well hooray for lazy venos b:chuckle

Atm I almost wanna just wait for it to appear in botique bidding hall. But I am slowly farming puffbird(only at 1.5k or so out of the 3.5k needed) I honestly feel I have more trouble controlling pretty much any other class than clerics. The cleric in my latest video is high end r9rr, and still did... okay vs. Him I feel

I think I recognized that cleric's face. Oh, the stuff I can rag on him now. b:chuckle

Very informative. Currently farming Blazing Barrier, and working on my cultivation for Fossil. Looks like they're going to be very useful in future fights.

Desdi - Sanctuary

I guess it's a good thing chrono skills are so much easier (or cheaper) to get so most people can get them now. There's no more excuse not to have them! Both are pretty nice in PvP and Fossilized Curse has PvE uses too.

Too bad though, I can't feel special anymore for being "among the few that have them" b:chuckle

SmurfJegeren - Dreamweaver

I love fossilized curse. And had it since before it got buffed. It was a tad meh at beginning, but still a good pvp skill. Now I love it, tho Im still a bit uncertain about the Arcane Antitomy. I got 21.6K hp buffed (over 33k with ToP) to booat foasil damage. But I only have 6k MP to boost AA damage. When used on me, I havent found arcane to be a hindrance at all, tho for the sake of completing my skill liat; Id get it if I foubd a cheap one.

In my last clip I get saved by fossil, as I have no other way to really avoid damage right then and being debuffed by HF. And it worked great. It also works on bosses, making it alot easier to tank incarcerate as an example, if he rebuffs after purge

Desdi - Sanctuary

SmurfJegeren - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Im still a bit uncertain about the Arcane Antitomy. I got 21.6K hp buffed (over 33k with ToP) to booat foasil damage. But I only have 6k MP to boost AA damage. When used on me, I havent found arcane to be a hindrance at all, tho for the sake of completing my skill liat; Id get it if I foubd a cheap one.

Arcane Antinomy is physical damage so it's normal that it doesn't do much on you. One of your opponents used it against you in one of your videos, that was a bad move, unless they tried to go for the channeling debuff which is, again, a bad move since as a Sage you can purify with Summer Sprint.

It's usually a deadly combo for Demons if Ironwood procs; 0 physical defence and you hit them with physical damage (provided magic build so high MP and magic) and it hurts a lot. It's usually enough to 1shot AAs (unless they are JOSD or endgamerefines or something I suppose) and still deals enough damage to hurt HAs. Can probably 1shot LAs depending on shards/refines.

The channeling debuff is pretty nasty too so at times I'll throw it on AAs even if Ironwood doesn't proc, it will still hurt a little.

For Sages, it's not as nasty but still pretty good and reliable against AAs due to the more reliable Ironwood.

It also works with Myriad, for both culties, but since Myriad is just 100% is not as nasty as Demons but still hurts a lot.

SmurfJegeren - Dreamweaver

I do know its physical, but either if its used on me, or I use it on anyone, itll mainly be for the debuff. In some cases I can see the use of it. But I cant really see that when I play pvp in real. I dont know if it also uses base damage tho, as sage spark beings my HA up to a respectable 40k m.atk. if it does use mag atk as well, it would be a nasty hit c:

Desdi - Sanctuary

It uses base magic attack and weapon attack (100%) plus the 150% of maximum MP. Though sparking then using genie/pot to chi up just to use Arcane Antinomy is probably not the brightest idea xD in that case I'd use it for the speed and channeling debuff which is pretty bad.

It is very situational though, unless you keep it for the Demon Ironwood+Arcane Antinomy combo or follow the magic build then you're better off keeping it just for the debuffs.

Ironically an AA would use Fossilized Curse for the debuffs moreso than the damage whilst use Arcane Antinomy for the damage moreso than the debuff and the HA would do the opposite. I find it pretty interesting.

SmurfJegeren - Dreamweaver

I actually use fossil for just a few reasons, with spike damage being the least important.

A: It protects me from physicals, like archers, sins and BMs.
B:Last resort if I cant counter a debuff (mostly cause of the long cooldown)
C:Spike magical damage without going out of fox

At least the damage is higher, the debuff removes m.def buff instead of fortifying p.def and its not a 10min cooldown lol

Desdi - Sanctuary

I was just making an observation aside from the basic use of each skill P: I mean, I wouldn't use it myself with the intention to deal damage but for the debuffs and mdef purge etcc though the damage itself is not bad (hit 7k crit on an Archer once) on the other hand I would use Arcane Antinomy purely for the damage once my opponent is Pdef debuffed.

SmurfJegeren - Dreamweaver

I would actually use aa with spark as a valid option to dd :x Then again its generally easier for sages to generate chi. Id just have to spark in fox form and change to human to do so. Since my magical hits are generally noticeable on R9rr after spark, Id think AA would be rather epic. Ofc coming from one that yet have to obtain the skill, uts just speculation.

As far as my hardest hit with fossil, I have critted a barb for 32k with it. The barb was G16, and I had sparked tho c: A normal sin after purge is often around 10-15k and I love it c:

And not saying youre wrong. In one vid I even use fossil on a veno. Mostly cause im too much in a hurry to change forms and was a bit disoriented bout where I was actually aiming xD

Jacerai - Dreamweaver

SmurfJegeren - Dreamweaver wrote: »

*snip*

As far as my hardest hit with fossil, I have critted a barb for 32k with it. The barb was G16, and I had sparked tho c: A normal sin after purge is often around 10-15k and I love it c:

*snip*

Holy ****. Now I definitely have to work towards my cultivation. Still have not seen many venos using the skill, though.

PanboyAir - Sanctuary

Hello veno frienz.

I know I haven't responded to this thread for a while, but don't worry, I've watched at least one of each person's videos.

Some of you are missing really good skills. Get them! all of them are useful!
Blazing Barrier, Bewitch, Chi Burn, Fossilized Curse, Arcane Antinomy. Aside from those skills, there are skills I feel are being underused: MYRIAD RAINBOW and Lending hand. PLEASE find a chance to learn them and use them, it is disappointing to see any of these skills unused.

Myriad is where venos get the most spike damage, and how they contribute to the team. If you reduce mdef or pdef of an opponent by 100%, they become highly vulnerable to being 1-shotted. Lending hand both demon and sage versions both have a secondary purpose, which is 25% chance to pass a spark to yourself.

I'm not one to break down every person's post or video. I'd rather just post a video showing how these skills benefit me in usual PVP. You guys can decide if you think they're useful or not. (Remember I am an R9R2 AA veno)

Here's a new video of my gameplay, where I relied heavily on myriad both fox and human form versions to wear down extremely tanky opponents +12 JOSD, etc. Check the difference in damage before and after 100% mdef break if you doubt myriad's benefits.b:surrender

Myriad

Let me know if anyone wants me to post their channel in the first post. Also any suggestions or any direct questions for me are welcome.

helovesu

I watched your video, and yes, you used Lending Hand and Myriad very often. Something that i have to learn is the timing. Sometimes we are not aware when is the best time to cast secondary priority skill like Lending Hand. Ok i try my self to be used to those skills.

Desdi - Sanctuary

helovesu wrote: »

I watched your video, and yes, you used Lending Hand and Myriad very often. Something that i have to learn is the timing. Sometimes we are not aware when is the best time to cast secondary priority skill like Lending Hand. Ok i try my self to be used to those skills.

It's a thing you kinda learn from experience or practice or..just trying I guess. It's kinda like how I've subconsciously learnt how to constantly build/manage my chi and always find ways and opportunities to build chi because otherwise as a Demon I'll run out of chi.

SmurfJegeren - Dreamweaver

@Jacerai: Gotta remember that its HP based damage, giving me over 70k before defenses when I spark that skill. Then again, I guess AA makes up for the average lower HP with their higher m.atk ^^*

@Panboy: Asuch as I can aknowledfe the usefulness of Myriad, its also way too random for me to actually rely on. I use it in some of my vids, but in 75% of the cases its used: It does nothing for me. I dont usually have much probl.with chi. And in emergencies I can always treat myself to a chi pot c: in the heat of battle you wont see me use seconds on maybe gaining a spark.

I will try upload more vids today. And if you want to put channels in first post I wont mind having mine there c: