Nerf Sage Tidal

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver

From an Archers perspective; I dont have much CC skills so not too bothered by tidal, and BV is a tad expensive to be be wasting on the off chance it will land when tidal is up.

Tidal or no tidal I will aim to stay antistunned kite fly if need be and get solid damage through to force CD genie/apo, which isnt that hard as you dont often run into many JoSD sins so usually I'm tankier than they are/ can hit them pretty hard so long as I can kite.

Spamming (demon) stunning arrow doesnt cost me anything and even if it fails I still get crit boost, similarly with STA, if it works then awesome.

Both sides are hoping for alot of luck once CDs are forced which ever way you look at it. A lucky GOF crit here or there or a lucky purge and qs proc and crit chain.

The longer the fight goes on the more it tips in the favour of the sin eventually I run of chi for antistuns and succumb to CC.

Stealth is a skill, they're entitled to use it if they feel the need to, I'll just fly in cicles up and down and faith out of their CC skill drop to the ground and carry on.

They're definitely one of the harder 1v1s and I'm by no means an expert or claiming to be pro, ijs its not as big an issue as people are making out.

HideYoHubby - Archosaur

tsyfall wrote: »

Couple situations here.

A1: Assassin zerks on Earthen Rift. Weak target dies.
A2: Assassin zerks on Earthen Rift. Strong target loses 1 pdef charm.

A3: Archer doesn't purge on BOA. Weak target dies to damage.
A4: Archer purges on BOA. Strong target gets faceraped due to no buffs.

Point made?

So you are comparing BoA damage to double spark zerk crit rift? Whatever, lol.

tsyfall

So you're saying Zerk Crit too? Okay, let's compare a Purge Crit with that.

If an assassin zerk crits on a weak target, they're going to die.
If an assassin zerk crits on a strong target, they'll only die if they're purged and not HA.

If an archer purge crits on a weak target, they're going to die.
If an archer purge crits on a strong target, they'll die if they don't have comparable gear or are extremely squishy. Furthermore, BOA is continous and has more damage than a single rift. Furthermore, if the target is fully, or even just partially buffed, they're going to get face ***** immediately by someone smart who capitalizes on a purged target.

I'm not saying purge > zerk. I'm saying that they're incomparable skills. However, the end results are pretty much the same. If anything, purge has the advantage in group PvP where everyone walks around with like 300%+ more def alone from buffs. I'm just saying that purge is still a pretty big factor, and it's a very big factor in any big fight, especially when an archer can open zhen for a bit.

Besides, I thought this topic was called something about Tidal. Not zerk or purge.

Zsw - Dreamweaver

HideYoHubby - Archosaur wrote: »

Those odds are still more than on freaking purge. Seriously these arguments. Not to forget you are wrong. You will zerk bout once in 5 tries and as it works like buff, it affect every single target. Unlike crit, which rolls individually on each target. So when you zerk, you will zerk crit on ~half of the targets you rift.

Hello, since you are wrong, I do not believe it is necessary for me to explain any further. Further more, I am not wrong to say that the chance of a zerk crit is roughly 10%. I never implied that the chance of zerk crit on AT LEAST ONE person is 10%.

ApocaIypto - Dreamweaver

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Both sides are hoping for alot of luck once CDs are forced which ever way you look at it. A lucky GOF crit here or there or a lucky purge and qs proc and crit chain.

why u hoping for purge if 1v1? arent most 1v1 self buffed? XD

tsyfall

ApocaIypto - Dreamweaver wrote: »

why u hoping for purge if 1v1? arent most 1v1 self buffed? XD

Blazing arrow is purgable.
Evasion buff is purgable.
Condor is purgable.
Elven alacrity is purgable.
Wings of Grace is purgable.
Some genie skills are purgable.
Dew Star is purgable.
Vacuity Powder is purgable.
Crit buff is purgable.
Quicken is purgable.

But yeah, I use a God of Frenzy bow.
Purge is useless in 1v1 right?

Zsw - Dreamweaver

ApocaIypto - Dreamweaver wrote: »

why u hoping for purge if 1v1? arent most 1v1 self buffed? XD

Nah, most people 1v1 full buffed nowadays. Especially now with all these buff pills.

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

juicybluca wrote: »

^this

the balance should be HAs kill LAs, LAs kill AAs, AAs kill HAs

but also happens that a sin can 2spark mire subsea earthen hit 20ks on HAs, hits even more on other LAs and AAs

and if you wanna try to control that damage, besides running\kiting (extremely hard since sin is the hardest CC class) there is nothing you can do cept burn genie\apo on a ******n passive skill

also they can purge you while sitting on this anti purge passive
also they simply cannot die for 2 thirds of fight (sage DN)

u got lucky? the fight went so long his buffs went out? tidal is down, deaden nerves is down? now he can use apothecary and genie and just repop his buffs

u got eve more lucky his buffs runned out, tidal is down, deaden is down, apothecary is down, genie is down (kinda impossibru scenario) ? ok 2x forced stealth gg wp

Most of the time I got several ppl on my *** as soon as im spotted, welcome to TW. Sins have a ****ing target on their head by everyone, I mean everyone.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Most of the time I got several ppl on my *** as soon as im spotted, welcome to TW. Sins have a ****ing target on their head by everyone, I mean everyone.

sin? where where? free fishsticks!b:cute

Unholly - Morai

@potato, pft free fish sticks? b:cute if there is free fish going around i want sushi.

How did a nerf thread turn in to the comparison of to almost incomparable classes and their almost and incomparable procs? >.>

1v1? assassin > archer (assassin arguably best 1v1 class?!)
mass pk? archer > assassin (archer arguably best group pk class?!)

unbuffed? Gof > purge (normally 1v1, maybe not so much now)
Buffed? Purge > GoF (normaly group pk)

Both classes main strengths are based around the others biggest weakness so other than these general statements, any comparison between them is like going and comparing the latest phone with a toaster.... unless my new phones now make toast comparison is eztupid. no?

juicybluca

Unholly - Morai wrote: »

@potato, pft free fish sticks? b:cute if there is free fish going around i want sushi.

How did a nerf thread turn in to the comparison of to almost incomparable classes and their almost and incomparable procs? >.>

1v1? assassin > archer (assassin arguably best 1v1 class?!)
mass pk? archer > assassin (archer arguably best group pk class?!)

unbuffed? Gof > purge (normally 1v1, maybe not so much now)
Buffed? Purge > GoF (normaly group pk)

Both classes main strengths are based around the others biggest weakness so other than these general statements, any comparison between them is like going and comparing the latest phone with a toaster.... unless my new phones now make toast comparison is eztupid. no?

yea well 1on1 assassin > all

but also in mass pvp a full buffed sage sin on tidal wont get any focus and he will able to burst down people 1 by 1 while they are taking care of more "killable" classes (and for more killable its pretty much anyone else cept barbs maybe)

and how about sin vs arcanes? its a faceroll in any scenario, i've seen sage sins giving 20ks from stealth to full buffed josd wizards in mass pk situation

well we going off topic tho... its universally known that sage sin is the most OP bugged class in game...

just nerf tidal and make sin more affordable to be killed by other classes, also a class that can purge and have a 2/3 immunity to purge is just crazy op

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

juicybluca wrote: »

yea well 1on1 assassin > all

the 2009s called, they want their QQ back

but also in mass pvp a full buffed sage sin on tidal wont get any focus and he will able to burst down people 1 by 1 while they are taking care of more "killable" classes (and for more killable its pretty much anyone else cept barbs maybe)

if a sin takes your squad members one by one your squad sucks worse than the NPC pk squad in aba.

and how about sin vs arcanes? its a faceroll in any scenario, i've seen sage sins giving 20ks from stealth to full buffed josd wizards in mass pk situation

funny how one case of 20k form stealth is generalised to any scenario

well we going off topic tho... its my butthurt belief that sage sin is the most OP bugged class in game...

just nerf tidal and make sin more affordable to be killed by other classes, also a class that can purge and have a 2/3 immunity to purge is just crazy op

roll a sage sin if you think they are so OP. /inb4uQQaboutsagesinssucking

juicybluca

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

roll a sage sin if you think they are so OP. /inb4uQQaboutsagesinssucking

useless comment, thanks for sharing ignorance b:laugh

you are the butthurt and QQing here, cause sin is the OP class... its just universally known....
i bet you are afraid to lose your OP passive skill b:shocked

roll any other class and go 1on1 a sage sin, when you win call me

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

juicybluca wrote: »

useless comment, thanks for sharing ignorance b:laugh

you are the butthurt and QQing here, cause sin is the OP class... its just universally known....
i bet you are afraid to lose your OP passive skill b:shocked

roll any other class and go 1on1 a sage sin, when you win call me

if I'm playing a sin and I'm OP, why would I be butthurt and QQing? there's 0% chance that pwi will listen toy our "suggestion" lol

juicybluca

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

if I'm playing a sin and I'm OP, why would I be butthurt and QQing? there's 0% chance that pwi will listen toy our "suggestion" lol

then why are you trying to ragely debate and argue about that? b:bye

still, get any other class, go 1on1 an equal geared\skilled sage sin and when you win call me b:bye

tho this is a discussion about nerfing sage tidal guess its time to add a poll

Zsw - Dreamweaver

juicybluca wrote: »

still, get any other class, go 1on1 an equal geared\skilled sage sin and when you win call me b:bye

Been there and done that. Maybe try a different strategy?

Crazybladema - Harshlands

Euthymius - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Heeeeeey guise, you know what else should be removed that was considered a "gamebreaker"? Purify Spell!

Still is a game breaker imo

tsyfall

Nerf Sage Tidal?

LolyLove - Raging Tide wrote: »

answer: no
Close thread b:laugh

Raapy - Raging Tide wrote: »

i could list a lot of thing that are "OP" on other classes, but that how it is. Everyone has their pros and cons.

Azura - Lost City wrote: »

Even though I hate that skill...
No

seitori wrote: »

Sure! Lets F'over the Sin Class even more!? While still allowing the other classes to keep their WAAYyyyyyy to OP skills, so they can get an even more lopsided advatage over sin class....b:surrender

Or in Another words, No way Jose!!

Jaabg - Sanctuary wrote: »

+1, because if OP can't be bothered to write, i can't be bothered to reply about the topic.

So how was friday's drunk nekky NW for everyone? b:laugh

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver wrote: »

No actual point made by OP equals pointless thread?

Inb4close b:bye

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

zzz ok it's a big difference because you say it's a big difference zzz

lol sins with sage tidal opest class....speaks volumes about how you play.

Unholly - Morai wrote: »

yes sins with tidal are strong in 1v1s as most people will avoid using their kill combos when its up, no matter what cultivation the tidal is. But in mass pk tidal is not nearly as strong, and changing it will just make a class which isnt good just worse

Option 1: You're right. Everyone else is stupid.
Option 2: You're stupid. Everyone else is right.

Ockham's Razor tells us to take the simplest explanation.

Considering that the only argument presented so far has been a combination of logical fallacy, inexperience, and ad hominem, I feel that the answer to "Should Sage Tidal be Nerfed?" is no.

Jesusisback - Raging Tide

Idk why people are making a big deal outta this anyways, sage sins suck gg

juicybluca

shush

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

You're not supposed to be one shotting anyone with decent gears (maybe charm bypass). That's ridiculous. What kind of game would it be to get high refines and get 1 shot? No archers can't one shot someone well-geared who got purged either.

HideYoHubby - Archosaur wrote: »

Those odds are still more than on freaking purge. Seriously these arguments. Not to forget you are wrong. You will zerk bout once in 5 tries and as it works like buff, it affect every single target. Unlike crit, which rolls individually on each target. So when you zerk, you will zerk crit on ~half of the targets you rift.

Crazybladema - Harshlands wrote: »

Still is a game breaker imo

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

lel, sage Tidal is pretty OP thoug. For a game that relies on purge/debuffs to score kills, being able to dodge 67% of al incoming debuffs while have a whole tree of them yourself is kinda OP, no?

juicybluca wrote: »

Assassin: 66% tidal
Psychic: passive sealing while afk, and 12 second stuns (avoided with sage tidal\maze steps)

Archer: Aoe Purge Zhen (avoided with sage tidal)
Cleric: Permalock (avoided with sage tidal)

Blademaster: Too many Aoes and control skills (avoided with sage tidal)
Wizard: 100% kill combo in less than 5 seconds if enemy doesnt react (avoided with sage tidal)

Seeker: Reflects debuffs, op passive defense (qpq avoided with sage tidal)
Mystic: infinite charmticks via heals (rofl)

Barbarian: Lives too long (i've seen sins hitting 34k hits on r9r3+12 barbs)
Venomancer: 100% purge, too much chi drain, pets unkillable (avoided with sage tidal)

NigeIus - Dreamweaver wrote: »

i wonder if ppl know that tidal last 1 minute and it has a cooldown of 90 segs. thats mean u have 30 segs window to kill the sushi.

in pk group i found sins more deadly than in 1 vs 1. and in pk group sins also die easier, since everybody are oeing.

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

If a sin can't kill you for 60s what makes you think you can kill the sin in 30s...

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

I think it should be nerfed

juicybluca wrote: »

just nerf tidal and make sin more affordable to be killed by other classes, also a class that can purge and have a 2/3 immunity to purge is just crazy op

how cool that everyone that pressed no @ the poll has a sin as main char

also the fact that you are raging and insulting me means that you got hit in the right point and you are mad about it b:laugh

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

juicybluca wrote: »

then why are you trying to ragely debate and argue about that? b:bye

still, get any other class, go 1on1 an equal geared\skilled sage sin and when you win call me b:bye

tho this is a discussion about nerfing sage tidal guess its time to add a poll

because it's a discussion about sage tidal?
see, that's the whole point. my fight experience with sage tidaling sins doesn't prove something; maybe I win and those sins are fail, maybe I lose because those sins are awesome, maybe I lose because I suck and expect to mash buttons to win without thinking about strategy at all. you provide no arguments besides 'sage tidal is OP because it is OP because <skill description>' or 'qq I sucks and cant beat a sage sin'

pretty sure that darkskies is an archer btw.

NigeIus - Dreamweaver

juicybluca wrote: »

then why are you trying to ragely debate and argue about that? b:bye

still, get any other class, go 1on1 an equal geared\skilled sage sin and when you win call me b:bye

tho this is a discussion about nerfing sage tidal guess its time to add a poll

***** a sage sin full r9rr +12 wiht imaculate citrines, while i am r9 bm just axes +12. i am second cast bm. was hitting the sin for 16k zerk crits. can i call u now? sins arent that bad to kill in a 1 vs 1, u only need to know how to fight them, when to kite and when to harrash.

btw, my main isnt a sin, it is a bm. the worse class atm........

tsyfall

A more organized version of my arguments on this topic can be found here.

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

NigeIus - Dreamweaver wrote: »

***** a sage sin full r9rr +12 wiht imaculate citrines, while i am r9 bm just axes +12. i am second cast bm. was hitting the sin for 16k zerk crits. can i call u now? sins arent that bad to kill in a 1 vs 1, u only need to know how to fight them, when to kite and when to harrash.

btw, my main isnt a sin, it is a bm. the worse class atm........

A sin's armor need to be on par with the weapon of whats hitting them to not go squish. And that guy ******** about a 20k zerk crit from stealth? Tell your wizzie friend that he should have had stone barrier up and maybe refine his pdef ornies, and learn how to purify debuffs, because its very rare to hit a jaded r9 3rd caster for that even with zerk crits.

All this QQ about sage tidal makes me sick. Sins have no natural survival in PvP other than our 3 self buffs, thats deaden, tidal, and focused mind. Every single on of them has a time period where they are not active and we cant do anything about it bc of cd.

Bm's have spammable marrows, bell, sutra, buddhas guard. 4 skills.

Archers have leaps/winged shell/BoC/WoP/32-35m Range. 5 skills.

Venos have fox form and bramble/metabolic boost/bramble hood/leech/blazing barrier/feral concentration. 7 skills.

Barbs have tiger and shapeshift intensity/beast kings inspiration/bestial rage/invoke/sunder/cornerbeast/frighten/(sage)Roar. 8 skills, 1 culti choice skill.

Psys have psys will/SoStunnig/SoSilence/Sov/SoR. 5 skills.

Cleric have all their buffs/plume shell/elvenboon/heals/Gaurdian light/WoP/Aurora Array/Absorbing array. 12+ skills.

Seekers have 30 FREE! fricken def lvs, last stand, blood thirsty blitz, and krav maga. 4 skills.

Wizards have stone barrier/1 heal (even if it sucks)/arcane def/elemental shell/glacial embrace/pyroshell/sand miasma. 7 skills.

Mystics have verdant shell/a few healing skills/bramble tornado (only knock back that works in pvp)/natures barrier/salvation's twin petals/healing herb/vital herb/swirling cloud dance/gaia's blessing/transfusion. 10+ skills.

Notice that these other classes have a lot of passive buffs they have access to that are extremely effective in PvP, then they have other skills that increase their natural survivability IN PVP.I did not mention BP because in PvP its negligable, rediculously so. Sins ARE the weakest class defensively out side of stealth and CC skills, CC skills which require us to have a target to use them on other than our selves. Even stealth is useless as most of the opther classes can effectively kill us even in stealth due to the rediculous amount of stealth pots dropped from AEU. Even soloing things like PV because of their self buffs (notice i didnt say go in fully buffed), even furthers this issue because it's easier to hit 105 with mediorce gear as every class BUT sins, which require an extremely large investment to do things like that with half the efficiency of even an aps BM.

I'm not really complaining as I've accepted that sins are a bit weak atm, but it's sickening you wanna just be able to pick us off when we have to go through 3x the amount of checks ALL THE OTHER CLASSES DO before we make a move. The class make you think, but it's also designed to make our enemies think bc of our few self buffs. Anyone that wants to take that away can go die in a hole.b:angry Just my 2c.

mynameiswizy

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

All this QQ about sage tidal makes me sick. Sins have no natural survival in PvP other than our 3 self buffs, thats deaden, tidal, and focused mind. Every single on of them has a time period where they are not active and we cant do anything about it bc of cd.

3 selfbuff and Shadow Escape and Share the Stealth morai skill
5 skill right?
you well-write all defensive skills of all class except these for sin b:puzzled

NigeIus - Dreamweaver

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

A sin's armor need to be on par with the weapon of whats hitting them to not go squish. And that guy ******** about a 20k zerk crit from stealth? Tell your wizzie friend that he should have had stone barrier up and maybe refine his pdef ornies, and learn how to purify debuffs, because its very rare to hit a jaded r9 3rd caster for that even with zerk crits.

All this QQ about sage tidal makes me sick. Sins have no natural survival in PvP other than our 3 self buffs, thats deaden, tidal, and focused mind. Every single on of them has a time period where they are not active and we cant do anything about it bc of cd.

Bm's have spammable marrows, bell, sutra, buddhas guard. 4 skills.

.

wth are u talking about?wizy's friend?i guess u talking about antics, but i ***** the sin for 16k hits in pk, not in nw. i dont squad for pk..........idk who u though i was talking about. to jsut clarify it was a tempest sin. and it was female, she had all +12 wiht good ornaments, but i said it was immc citrines. i really dont know what are u talking about. and antics is not even full +10, neither wiht good gems. idk why are u talking about antics, he isnt end geared wizard, he is good but not end game geared (yet).

bms have smapable marros and bell.. and?? buddhas guard?sutra??wth are u talking about?? u just dont know the mechanic of this game. i will explain u some stuffs u didnt learn, couse u just ignore it or couse no1 ever told u.
1-buddas guard isnt that good. why?couse after u have 20k phys def, from 20k to 35k u only gain around 10% dmg reduction. and the max dmg reduction u can get is 80% (or 90% i dont remember) soo lets say u hit 35k phys def. u already get teh max dmg reduction u can have in game. soo if u have 35k phys def or 100k phys def, it is teh same!!!!IT IS THE SAME!!!!!!! u dont get hits for anything lower. not even saying budas guard description is wrong and they still didnt change it. it doesnt heal u for what it should and it neither last as it say.
2-marrows and bell: once u have decent gear u only use bell to boost others phys def, in a 1 vs 1 situation against a phys DD, it is easier to just use marrow physical. u only do bell+marrow if it is magical marrow to not lost a lot of phys defense in group pk situations.

3-sutra, it heals u, it is nice...but i will tell u this: bms need chi as plants need water+sunlights. a bm without chi is nothing, we are soo chi dependant that the way to coutner a bm is using a genie to get his chi. didndt know this? know u do. i would rather waste that spark in a stun, or sprint than in heal me. not even saying we have a skill that need our hp at 75%.

4-bms is the most unbalance class atm, and not in a good way. bm have to deal about we cant go pure build. in the other hand all the other classes can go pure stats- only vit barbs sahre this wiht bms. so saying that bms are op it is just stupid, everybody cna tell u that bms are annoying as hell if played well, but all bms can tell u that for us to kill some1 is 2x the effort other classes have to do to kill us. any mage can drop a bomb in a bm and one shoot him.

ps: u are saying non senses. the only thing i agree wiht u is about to not nerf sage tidal. for me it is good as it is. then what u said about me and antic has no sense and u are just sayning pure bs. what u said about bms u are just thinking bms are godlike and perhaps it is couse u are too undergeared or underskilled. sins are op, sins are really good. if u cant see3 this then u are just blind. i wish i had the dph a sin can gain wiht r9rr, probably they are the higher dps class atm, or at least close to wizards.
the only class i see op atm is seekers. but oo well.

HideYoHubby - Archosaur

mynameiswizy wrote: »

3 selfbuff and Shadow Escape and Share the Stealth morai skill
5 skill right?
you well-write all defensive skills of all class except these for sin b:puzzled

2 jumps you can use defensively. Heck, even healing trance. Heck, you count frighten so why not rib strike? Also normal stealth for defensive skill. We get to 10 skills. Do I consider all those real defensive skills? No, but if we count lot of stuff you counted for other classes, you have to count those too or its completely biased and utterly useless argument.

Edit: As for damage, I have hit full R9T3 clerics for 11k+ with double spark rift from stealth with aps set and N3+12 dags. Thats for the lower refined ones(low p.def from ornies). R9T3 will hit easily harder than I do, add full se for attack level bonust and zerk and I would be suprised if R9T3 zerk crits were even close as low as 20k on lower tier R9T3 casters. I woulf assume them ~30k on those, maybe half of that for real endgame casters. If they are missing buffs, there is decent chance they get 1shot from stealth with zerk crit.

Desdi - Sanctuary

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Bm's have spammable marrows, bell, sutra, buddhas guard. 4 skills.

Archers have leaps/winged shell/BoC/WoP/32-35m Range. 5 skills.

Venos have fox form and bramble/metabolic boost/bramble hood/leech/blazing barrier/feral concentration. 7 skills.

Barbs have tiger and shapeshift intensity/beast kings inspiration/bestial rage/invoke/sunder/cornerbeast/frighten/(sage)Roar. 8 skills, 1 culti choice skill.

Psys have psys will/SoStunnig/SoSilence/Sov/SoR. 5 skills.

Cleric have all their buffs/plume shell/elvenboon/heals/Gaurdian light/WoP/Aurora Array/Absorbing array. 12+ skills.

Seekers have 30 FREE! fricken def lvs, last stand, blood thirsty blitz, and krav maga. 4 skills.

Wizards have stone barrier/1 heal (even if it sucks)/arcane def/elemental shell/glacial embrace/pyroshell/sand miasma. 7 skills.

Mystics have verdant shell/a few healing skills/bramble tornado (only knock back that works in pvp)/natures barrier/salvation's twin petals/healing herb/vital herb/swirling cloud dance/gaia's blessing/transfusion. 10+ skills.

Notice that these other classes have a lot of passive buffs they have access to that are extremely effective in PvP

I kinda disagree with some of the things listed above, I'll only comment on the Venomancer once since I'm most familiar with it.

Metabolic Boost and Leech don't count. Matabolic Boost is something you'll use while you're on stand by or run away to save your charm a tick.
Leech is completely useless in PvP, you can easily gain that 600/800 HP from a pot than waste time casting it.

On the other hand, I'd probably add Bewitch as an effective counter-attack skill.

A lot of skills you listed above aren't buffs but rather counter-attack/defensive skills I'd say. I just wanted to clarify as it might misguide people :P

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

mynameiswizy wrote: »

3 selfbuff and Shadow Escape and Share the Stealth morai skill
5 skill right?
you well-write all defensive skills of all class except these for sin b:puzzled

I clearly said stealth is becoming useless with all the stealth pots that are pumped out By AEU on a regular basis. It turns shadow escape into a chi skill, and share the stealth into a waste of a spark. True the jumps can be used defensively, but they also require targets other than the person thats attacking you to get away. Stealth may be a skills so yes you can include it, but its becoming useless when you get into TW's with people who actually know how to play, it starts to become extremely discouraging when you move in stealth and 7 ppl attack you all at one time, in stealth. Thsi isnt an isolated case, so unless ur sin my sin was 104/105, I can never count it as a defensive skill in most cases.

@Nigelus: Have you played a sin that doesnt have all +8 or higher gears w/ good shards? It's extremely frustating when a BM w/ +5 G16 axes hits you for 2.5k on most skill not to mention ur hitting him for less than that and he has more HP >.>. Sins are strong, but they have to be well geared for that to be the case. I hit for 6k average by casters in my few r9rr peices (like 12-14k mdef buffed) because my over all refines arent freakin OP. 1 HP piont away from 12k fully buffed. You have to actually play a sin like mine to know that I put at least 1b into my toon, and he still isnt decked out. I need to shard and refine 2 sets of gear, like BM's do as well. The two classes are in the same boat, just like you, a mage can drop a bomb on me at almost any time and kill me. Same goes for archers sometimes. I never said BM's were god's, but I bet your chance of survival is way higher than mine if we had the same gears. Yea I may have deaden, but if I'm ALWAYS being targeted by 3+ people, you really think that deaden matters much? Thats what I'm talking about.

NigeIus - Dreamweaver

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

@Nigelus: Have you played a sin that doesnt have all +8 or higher gears w/ good shards? It's extremely frustating when a BM w/ +5 G16 axes hits you for 2.5k on most skill not to mention ur hitting him for less than that and he has more HP >.>. Sins are strong, but they have to be well geared for that to be the case. I hit for 6k average by casters in my few r9rr peices (like 12-14k mdef buffed) because my over all refines arent freakin OP. 1 HP piont away from 12k fully buffed. You have to actually play a sin like mine to know that I put at least 1b into my toon, and he still isnt decked out. I need to shard and refine 2 sets of gear, like BM's do as well. The two classes are in the same boat, just like you, a mage can drop a bomb on me at almost any time and kill me. Same goes for archers sometimes. I never said BM's were god's, but I bet your chance of survival is way higher than mine if we had the same gears. Yea I may have deaden, but if I'm ALWAYS being targeted by 3+ people, you really think that deaden matters much? Thats what I'm talking about.

i said i was agree about not nerfing tidal....ppl that ask nerf tidal is couse they are or too undergeared or too underskilled. sins are squishy. they hit like trucks but they are cannon glass. i gave u my example about me hitting a sin for 16k (sin full r9rr +12) as an example about how sins are squishy and why i dont understand why ppl want to nerf sage tidal. i am agree wiht u there. but u started to points stuffs i really dont understand, started talking about my friend (Antic i guess) and others stuffs. some are right others not. thats why i answered u.