the VIT challenge

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

-snip-

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

I use both blessings ofc. I use the defence level one when tiger or in APSing when needed, the attack level one where defence is not needed. So dont touch the blessing please b:laugh

Other than that i dont know what you all did besides changing a +8 to +5 and for than changing not only another +5 to +8, but increasing 2 other refines as well but its ok . I extensively tested vit and weapon refines vs str and armor refines and vit+weapon refines won by a landslide. This espescially gets big if you activate triple spark. (which is obviously pretty much the standard when attacking with fists)

well, the idea is that for weapon refines you have to use orbs so +6+7+8 is quite costly (assuming that you do the other refines with event gold values at 160k/g so it's around 35m to go from 0 to +8 on average).

but yeah, without blessing playing? can't beat the reverse challenge. maybe a purist can give it a try!

OPKossy wrote: »

Here's one too.

b:cute

my best shot is this: http://pwcalc.com/1789e0e066bb7cb8
a bit less attack and crit, more hp and some def lvls that balances the loss in defenses. cost wise, is quite similar (rings 70m, cape 50m, hat 15m and refines+tome should be around the cost of a +11). do I recommend it? no. I assume it's either a legacy build or some HS+10 bargain (like when I got my buddha's leaf+10 for 40m :drools:)

Neferhotep - Lost City wrote: »

I have no clue about barb builds but my nose started bleeding when i saw that HP :O

Also, if i remember right some years ago when pure builds were extreme popular you didnt got a nice defense boost when adding VIT. Or atleast, they didnt gave you any information about that while adding it. Just that VIT increases your HP and HP recovery and nothing about attack/defense increase as well.

I was always curious if there are any high lvl Vit-Sins, i never saw one. Just wondering if that amount of HP really is worth the cost of damage you loose

eerm has a blessing that gives like 75% hp... xD
vit would give you a defense boost based on your current defense e.g. with 5k pdef 10k mdef you get 300 pdef and 600mdef; not too shabby. On my sin I plan to +11 my weapon, keep g12 armor at +8 and stat some vit: more attack, more defense and cheaper than +10'ing crappy g12 armor/orns!

edit: as Joe pointed out you should consider the costs of +8'ing versus keeping +6/7 and refine the highest grade stuff (e.g. g16/5 helm) to +10 first!

ovenusarmanio

Well since Potatohead skipped this one..

Heliophobia - Sanctuary wrote: »

Roughly my archers build/gear, havent been able to play for a while.
http://pwcalc.com/db7a7e3d9f05196c

If I were to go vit build on the archer I would have done this instead:

http://pwcalc.com/db38634fce6814fe

Reason: 5k HP is a good amount of HP to have in FC if someone aoes the clone boss and hits the add, misses a hand, or if you lag and stand in a circle. As you can see you can make up for the lack of attack by upping your refines on your bow and getting a tome. BTW, the tome is an upgrade you should get anyway as well as a belt. That belt is free and all it requires is to do your chrono culti up until the 1st map. The drum ring is from core connect and is also free if you have the tokens for it. I upped the refines on your neck and cape as well, but you'd still have at least 5k hp without that. It's just those will last you for a while so you might as well give them better refines.

With your current setup you'd have to refine all the pieces to +5 to get the same results. Also I put in a belt because that bugged me. xD For comparisons sake I put in the same one. :P You could get a tome instead of +5 one of the pieces though.

http://pwcalc.com/101a040932711407

Same build with +5 refines armor and tome

http://pwcalc.com/c84cb69d360a9c9f

Joe - Morai

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

eerm has a blessing that gives like 75% hp... xD
vit would give you a defense boost based on your current defense e.g. with 5k pdef 10k mdef you get 300 pdef and 600mdef; not too shabby. On my sin I plan to +11 my weapon, keep armor at +8 and stat some vit: more attack, more defense and cheaper than +10'ing crappy g12 armor/orns!

Just to point something out. No offense but +8ing your full gear is nubness in ways I can't even explain. The avarage one uses +10 orbs to refine from 7 to 10. If you want to refine your main armor parts...lets say full g16 +7 and you got 6x 10* Orbs. Do I have to tell you that you got way more HP by +10ing 2 parts instead of wasting the orbs to equally refine the gear?

Cmon creating a thread like that and failing at the basics is just... I really don't know what I gonna say about that.

Especially as a sin it is the smartest move to focus on your helmet first (thus giving the most HP) and then refine anything else depending on gear grade...

Sorry but for failing at a thing like that...I can't take anything you post for serious. Don't feel offended. Lot's of ppl fail at basic stuff like that.

Desdi - Sanctuary

Well, the more daring people will go for +8 with Tisha which is cheaper than using an orb. Some people even go as far as +9. I guess he had this in mind when posting that.

Heliophobia - Sanctuary

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

Well since Potatohead skipped this one..



If I were to go vit build on the archer I would have done this instead:

http://pwcalc.com/db38634fce6814fe

Reason: 5k HP is a good amount of HP to have in FC if someone aoes the clone boss and hits the add, misses a hand, or if you lag and stand in a circle. As you can see you can make up for the lack of attack by upping your refines on your bow and getting a tome. BTW, the tome is an upgrade you should get anyway as well as a belt. That belt is free and all it requires is to do your chrono culti up until the 1st map. The drum ring is from core connect and is also free if you have the tokens for it. I upped the refines on your neck and cape as well, but you'd still have at least 5k hp without that. It's just those will last you for a while so you might as well give them better refines.

With your current setup you'd have to refine all the pieces to +5 to get the same results. Also I put in a belt because that bugged me. xD For comparisons sake I put in the same one. :P You could get a tome instead of +5 one of the pieces though.

http://pwcalc.com/101a040932711407

Same build with +5 refines armor and tome

http://pwcalc.com/c84cb69d360a9c9f

I do own belt and tome. Like I said, I havent been able to log in about 2 months so I cant remember what all she is wearing. (stones and refines for example)

Joe - Morai

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

Well, the more daring people will go for +8 with Tisha which is cheaper than using an orb. Some people even go as far as +9. I guess he had this in mind when posting that.

Well maybe so, I refined 2 of my Equip Parts to +9 all the way with tienkang so you have point here (:

OK then it's ok I guess...but if he did not have this in mind...Shall the Nub-Hammer banish him for all eternity xDDD

WannaBM - Archosaur

Joe - Morai wrote: »

Just to point something out. No offense but +8ing your full gear is nubness in ways I can't even explain. The avarage one uses +10 orbs to refine from 7 to 10. If you want to refine your main armor parts...lets say full g16 +7 and you got 6x 10* Orbs. Do I have to tell you that you got way more HP by +10ing 2 parts instead of wasting the orbs to equally refine the gear?

Cmon creating a thread like that and failing at the basics is just... I really don't know what I gonna say about that.

Especially as a sin it is the smartest move to focus on your helmet first (thus giving the most HP) and then refine anything else depending on gear grade...

Sorry but for failing at a thing like that...I can't take anything you post for serious. Don't feel offended. Lot's of ppl fail at basic stuff like that.

While if you pay 250k for tishas and tienkangs you should start using orbs at +8, using event gold from DQ points you buy in catshops will allow you to use mirages for the +8 refines before starting with d orbs.
With DQ points, +8 is the new +7.

While the average cost of this +8 refine will be close to the cost of an ocean orb and the higher effectiviness of +9/+10 orbs may be more significant than the price difference, we all get our dayly dose of mirages from BHs and fairy boxes. Unless you want to go trough the effort of selling them all and then waiting for an ocean orb sale, it is logical to +8 your armors with them.

Sorry but for failing at a thing like that...I can't take anything you post for serious. Don't feel offended. Lot's of ppl fail at basic stuff like that.

Mayfly - Dreamweaver

With Dragon's Fire Packs on sale for 3.15 gold for 20, +8 orbs are actually a bit cheaper than +10s on sale (and we haven't had a +10 sale for a while.)

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

Joe - Morai wrote: »

Just to point something out. No offense but +8ing your full gear is nubness in ways I can't even explain. The avarage one uses +10 orbs to refine from 7 to 10. If you want to refine your main armor parts...lets say full g16 +7 and you got 6x 10* Orbs. Do I have to tell you that you got way more HP by +10ing 2 parts instead of wasting the orbs to equally refine the gear?

Cmon creating a thread like that and failing at the basics is just... I really don't know what I gonna say about that.

Especially as a sin it is the smartest move to focus on your helmet first (thus giving the most HP) and then refine anything else depending on gear grade...

Sorry but for failing at a thing like that...I can't take anything you post for serious. Don't feel offended. Lot's of ppl fail at basic stuff like that.

well, I refine to +8 with stones from DQ which results in around 35m average for +8 (160k/stone with current DW prices). I kinda derped in my previous post; helm and pants are at +10 xD I think that the biggest fail in my sin build is not getting the g16 helm which would give me a bit more hp and stats that compensate for the attack lvls as well as the 700hp bonus if i decide to switch a int piece (pvp/hard boss). But yeah, nice catch there, will add a note to my post!

btw, I recently found out that for AAs, the g16 cape gives more hp than the hat (it appears that all capes refine as LA; dunno if it's common knowledge XD)

Desdi - Sanctuary

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

btw, I recently found out that for AAs, the g16 cape gives more hp than the hat (it appears that all capes refine as LA; dunno if it's common knowledge XD)

I have noticed that, too. I don't know if it is meant to be like that or simply laziness from the developers' part.

Joe - Morai

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

I have noticed that, too. I don't know if it is meant to be like that or simply laziness from the developers' part.

TBH, that is common knowledge as well xD That is known since the very start of PWI xD

@Potato: My apologies. If you really refine your whole stuff to +8 with tisha/tienkang then I'm sorry...but never expected someone to be as crazy as I am xDD

Desdi - Sanctuary

Joe - Morai wrote: »

TBH, that is common knowledge as well xD That is known since the very start of PWI xD

@Potato: My apologies. If you really refine your whole stuff to +8 with tisha/tienkang then I'm sorry...but never expected someone to be as crazy as I am xDD

You should meet my game husband; he likes to refine stuff to +9 when bored...problem is that he run out of things to refine f:laugh

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

Joe - Morai wrote: »

@Potato: My apologies. If you really refine your whole stuff to +8 with tisha/tienkang then I'm sorry...but never expected someone to be as crazy as I am xDD

no need to apologise, it was my fault. after all, it's better to wake up someone with the hard truth than having him giving bad advice/doing fail builds XD

heh, once upon a time I remember refining to +5 for the first time and I was super pissed... but now I found the trick: just watch a movie while clicking and you reach +8 at no time!

PsychicTuna - Harshlands

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

* Kill before next group of mobs comes in RB
is this a joke? delta is 90% waiting mobs, 10% killing. even with my g16+3, 200vit psy as the strongest DD we killed mobs before the next wave.

Can you post a PWcalc of your psy i'm curious about it's stats...

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

PsychicTuna - Harshlands wrote: »

Can you post a PWcalc of your psy i'm curious about it's stats...

that's what I had when I restated (g16+11 weapon bought for 350m):
http://pwcalc.com/a7030e5afdebe6d7
the scycover has the hp from immac citrines and the dream has the neck engraving
the stats of dream ring might be a bit off (armour has the exact stats).
also, I might have 185 vit points, not sure atm XD

I currently have a g16+3 sphere with failish adds (310mp, 1 def lvl and mag (?)) since I sold my sphere to start getting ready for the next r9 sale.

my experiences when I restated? meh, pretty much the same. I still got 200k+ sparked crits on metal mobs, still got aggro in delta, still dealed crappy dps in single targets. was more inclined to use the jones blessing, tripple spark instead of saving for psy will in delta. In NW i still dealt 300 dmg to r9rr and failed to kill people because they survived with a tiny bit of hp and then ticked; but the same happened to me. NW credits were increased a bit (but maybe I just got good battles); I assume that it's because less dps = more charm ticks before you kill someone, more hp = more charm ticks before you get killed + more points when you get oneshotted.

tactics-wise, I spammed crystal light as it has a 300% weapon multiplier (but I already spammed it cause it's cool animation and shows where the target is XD). Stone smasher also becomes more useful (but haven't really used it a lot).

all in all: did I get super-survivability? no. did I get a great dmg nerf? no.

Lolgasmic - Raging Tide

Neferhotep - Lost City wrote: »

I have no clue about barb builds but my nose started bleeding when i saw that HP :O

Also, if i remember right some years ago when pure builds were extreme popular you didnt got a nice defense boost when adding VIT. Or atleast, they didnt gave you any information about that while adding it. Just that VIT increases your HP and HP recovery and nothing about attack/defense increase as well.

I was always curious if there are any high lvl Vit-Sins, i never saw one. Just wondering if that amount of HP really is worth the cost of damage you loose

he was trolling

• he used R9nw
• +20 vit stones arent in pwi
• its r9rr+12 what would you expect b:chuckle

PsychicTuna - Harshlands

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

that's what I had when I restated (g16+11 weapon bought for 350m):
http://pwcalc.com/a7030e5afdebe6d7
the scycover has the hp from immac citrines and the dream has the neck engraving
the stats of dream ring might be a bit off (armour has the exact stats).
also, I might have 185 vit points, not sure atm XD

I currently have a g16+3 sphere with failish adds (310mp, 1 def lvl and mag (?)) since I sold my sphere to start getting ready for the next r9 sale.

my experiences when I restated? meh, pretty much the same. I still got 200k+ sparked crits on metal mobs, still got aggro in delta, still dealed crappy dps in single targets. was more inclined to use the jones blessing, tripple spark instead of saving for psy will in delta. In NW i still dealt 300 dmg to r9rr and failed to kill people because they survived with a tiny bit of hp and then ticked; but the same happened to me. NW credits were increased a bit (but maybe I just got good battles); I assume that it's because less dps = more charm ticks before you kill someone, more hp = more charm ticks before you get killed + more points when you get oneshotted.

tactics-wise, I spammed crystal light as it has a 300% weapon multiplier (but I already spammed it cause it's cool animation and shows where the target is XD). Stone smasher also becomes more useful (but haven't really used it a lot).

all in all: did I get super-survivability? no. did I get a great dmg nerf? no.

http://pwcalc.com/ec97f3ac08d36016 Mine atm with meridian figured in. I could easily get G16 AA but I need to get my R9 barb done.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

PsychicTuna - Harshlands wrote: »

http://pwcalc.com/ec97f3ac08d36016 Mine atm with meridian figured in. I could easily get G16 AA but I need to get my R9 barb done.

a LA build! LA builds generally follow the same idea with vit builds; it's pretty good for g16 since you get better hp add. additionally, it's hard to get the same crit in AA.

I'd switch the elemental belt for a physical; if you need more mdef you can always refine the rings. I'd trade a ring for a +10 orbs for the sphere; you can keep the attack or restat to vit for more defences: http://pwcalc.com/647d4d4735832519

if the belt is from an alt you can still buy a cheap pdef belt http://pwcalc.com/9a4b84e215c1164d (but you'll need to restat some vit to keep the same defenses). btw, the oht 4th map belt will also work great.

the reason I'd focus on refining the weapon to +10 is soulforce which comes pretty handy for our buffs. for the next steps I'd suggest refining the hat to +10 (hat gives more hp than refining 5 pieces to +8 for the same cost if you refine to +8 which stones; it's around 17m cheaper if you refine with +10 orbs; plus, you get some more SF).

Jarkhen - Archosaur

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

that's what I had when I restated (g16+11 weapon bought for 350m):
http://pwcalc.com/a7030e5afdebe6d7

http://pwcalc.com/f728830a2bb130ed

*shrug*

Give me 5k matk over 2k hp any day.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

Jarkhen - Archosaur wrote: »

Give me 5k matk over 2k hp any day.

cause hitting 7.8k instead of 6.5k is so awesome

Quilue - Sanctuary

In your example, what are you hitting 6.5k with?

Base damage matters less when you are hitting with big spells because of the weapon damage and flat damage add, but how often do you have the resources to pull off a 2 spark?

How about the difference when you use a smaller, faster attack? How about 4k vs 2.7k?

Frighten - Dreamweaver

DoT Sin

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

In your example, what are you hitting 6.5k with?

Base damage matters less when you are hitting with big spells because of the weapon damage and flat damage add, but how often do you have the resources to pull off a 2 spark?

How about the difference when you use a smaller, faster attack? How about 4k vs 2.7k?

it's a psychic crystal light (300% +2k water). yup, it's kinda cheating since it has a 15sec cd (but no spark cost). on the other hand, we can pretty much spam the other aoes (no spakr cost) for 200% weapon attack and 3/4k elemental damage (depends on lvl10/11) so it's similar (you lose around 2k from weapon but gain it from the elemental part).

ironically, the spark aoes have 100% and 200% attack (Excluding stone smasher xd). now i'm thinking about it, I should really get the second lvl100 skill for 300%+5.4k o: just 10sec cd too!

Frighten - Dreamweaver wrote: »

DoT Sin

well that's pretty easy: http://pwcalc.com/aefe7fdadbd39170
dps: 211k vs 207k, effective hp (m/p): 17k/14.1k vs 13.4k/11.1k
hp gained from bp is a bit less effective it cause the defenses are a bit lower but sparks are better cause hp is (way) higher (Also you get more hp from bp).
in regards of the cost, the rings should be enough to cover the weapon refines but you have great savings from the helm so it's cheaper.

Jaabg - Sanctuary

Can you find a better vit for this? http://pwcalc.com/7fda259eca1df9b0

or this? http://pwcalc.com/20efeadfa5291245

2nd link is what i have, aiming for first link.

If i can make changes to get more hp to 2nd link to match first link, that be awesome .

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

Jaabg - Sanctuary wrote: »

Can you find a better vit for this? http://pwcalc.com/7fda259eca1df9b0

or this? http://pwcalc.com/20efeadfa5291245

2nd link is what i have, aiming for first link.

If i can make changes to get more hp to 2nd link to match first link, that be awesome .

alright, here's my best shot: http://pwcalc.com/6ea2c809d6281351
the vit version would be something like: http://pwcalc.com/d0e0fe1537ce69d8
which is inferior cause +12ing the weapon is quite expensive.

the problem with BMs is that you have a ton of weapons; so refining each weapon one step higher just to use vit would be counterproductive. on the other hand, I suspect that this is the farming build so you don't want to spend a ton on refines on the armor too.

anyway, the basic idea is that you use a LA orn to get one more g16 piece in the mix to get the bonus+better stats+better refines. since the belt is r9, the only choice is the neck. I picked wrists cause, while boots give a % of mdef, even if it's 10% you'll get around 300mdef; wrists already have ~180 plus you get the pdef mutliplier (in the end, if it's a hard m.aoe you can use a mdef charm in farming). after that, I added around 300m in refines (+8 with stones and then 2 +10).

For the vit version:
+ could use occasionally the +12 claws on pvp
+ hp from vit carries on in pvp
- dmg reduction from vit carries on pvp

is it worth spending 300m for around 1.7k hp? that's the question XD

Jaabg - Sanctuary

hmmm, the problem occurs in soloing tt bosses. I would not wear LA ornies to solo tt bosses with that build, even if weapon is +12, the damage difference is slight from +11 in a str build. That will reduce the bp heals i get back. The extra hp won't keep me alive for long.

I would rather use the +12 orb money and get -int on r8r boots. That will still allow me to use the elemental necklace in my gear progression.

A +12 is about 17%~25% harder hitting than +10, and about 7~10% from +11 from what i recall previously, could be wrong about the numbers. In the vit build the damage increase is lost for a bit more hp.

I would definitely go for the hp boost from -int r8r boots over +12 weapon, i could troll around pvp in aps set b:dirty

I want to be able to farm bosses by just using my hp pool and bp, and in extreme cases mdef charms. If i have to use crab meat+charm+apoc+def charms+other stuff to keep alive, that reduces how efficiency of the farming concept for me.

I'll think about this more, and post later when there is food in my tummy. Thanks for your feedback, gave me something to think about.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

just for clarification: I don't suggest the vit build. ofc, if you can get -int on r8r boots it's better and still leaves the bonus from more refines open for the future (And you can you a non-crappy neck!). However, I don't know if you can get the int for 300m. You can also boost the mdef with a CoA ring or a lunar one (or get the boots for % mdef bonus)

I'm kinda overflowing with chi stones (around 250k atm) so I tend to spam mdef charms on sin xD

Jaabg - Sanctuary

I was just looking to see if other builds, other players had an idea . 300m = about 400 rolls. -int i hope shows up at least once during those 400 rolls.

I think i'll do it the same way, just use mdef charms and tank the bosses with a charm on. Should be able to handle it with phy marrow up .

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

Jaabg - Sanctuary wrote: »

I was just looking to see if other builds, other players had an idea . 300m = about 400 rolls. -int i hope shows up at least once during those 400 rolls.

I think i'll do it the same way, just use mdef charms and tank the bosses with a charm on. Should be able to handle it with phy marrow up .

hehe, sometimes I use the marrow base pot + mdef charm (i'm a sin) b:chuckle

Azura - Lost City

Is this thread about pve only?

I'm an (almost) full vit veno, and the reason I went that build is because after trying pretty much all the other builds, I decided full vit was the best for PvP.