Full Warsong; Mobless vs mobbed

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Except for Water and Wood the mobless WS really isn't much faster. When you take in the 25k IG x 5 it just isn't that much of a benefit for me. Each mob pull takes a little over a minute, so who cares?

A minute lol? Never seen a single full pav pull off of a WC squad yet. Maybe it's just because I don't have the gear level to find OP static squads

Jacerai - Dreamweaver

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

A minute lol? Never seen a single full pav pull off of a WC squad yet. Maybe it's just because I don't have the gear level to find OP static squads

Do you, perchance, run with barbs? I know Fenny is able to do full pulls.

Hell, I know some archers and bms that do wood in two goes.

But that aside, I do not run many "mobless" since I normally fly as cleric. My sin is not strong enough, my veno is too low, my bm is too low, etc.
I get some very...interesting...full WS squads in Dreamweaver.

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

Jacerai - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Do you, perchance, run with barbs? I know Fenny is able to do full pulls.

Hell, I know some archers and bms that do wood in two goes.

But that aside, I do not run many "mobless" since I normally fly as cleric. My sin is not strong enough, my veno is too low, my bm is too low, etc.
I get some very...interesting...full WS squads in Dreamweaver.

None of the fac catas seem to be on and not afk when I do BH/warsong usually lol

Rarely get a barb that can pull. Most just stick to crappy T2/TT90 gear and rely on vit to hit that basic bit of HP, and usually I see barbs with pdef ornaments lol. One of them died before turning around on a half metal pull.

Rarely find a good puller barb

Jacerai - Dreamweaver

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

None of the fac catas seem to be on and not afk when I do BH/warsong usually lol

Rarely get a barb that can pull. Most just stick to crappy T2/TT90 gear and rely on vit to hit that basic bit of HP, and usually I see barbs with pdef ornaments lol. One of them died before turning around on a half metal pull.

Rarely find a good puller barb

f:cry Watching a kitty pull is a gorgeous thing. Too bad there are a lot of poorly-geared everything out there to make a good pull work.

HideYoHubby - Archosaur

thesquee1 wrote: »

What he says is true. A BM like me, an axe BM who still had demon HF (had, I'm sage now) could never find a squad. I would even try forming squads just to get ******* out for slowing the squad runs down. The problem with making one was most of the sins would then demand we split so they could get ride of me and get an aps BM. I always had lead so I never ended up being the one making the second squad, they'd give me the share from one run, and leave me out of the rest of the runs to worldchat for an aps BM with demon HF...

It was actually because of all this that I decided to go sage. I was demon for the sake of making conveniences for my squad, I was able to demon HF and all that good stuff, better stuns and such, but in the end, nobody wanted me in squad unless it was delta, SoT, or Abadon. Even lunar squads wanted BMs with t3 axes -and- fists because they struggled with the last vile. Nevermind the fact that I can solo it, then need me to have aps <_<. Fortunately now lunar has died down and aps is less demanded...

But off Nirvy and onto fws, like the topic is about, I refuse to do moblesses even if I were still demon. Mobless full warsong squads take just as long as a mobbed full warsong, and mobbed is funner because you are actually enjoying the content that others are complaining that there is a lack of. Even if it does take longer, it's funner and cheaper. And as for barbs and vacs, I like to pull wood/water with my anti stun so that the barb can anti stun behind me once I stop and then he can roar and not burn a vac since BM antistun lasts longer. Once aggro has been established I can HF and all ends well...An organized squad is an incredible thing.

I guess RT is just full of idiots/Had more than enough demon HF BMs then. That of course, if you were able to generate enough chi to HF/GS on sins spark cycle. If not, then you really were just leeching and I can completely understand finding BM who can debuff bosses properly. If and when you say they only ditched you, a demon HF BM, I find it hard to believe you didnt do something to truly annoy other players.

WannaBM - Archosaur

Not finding squads that can pull a full pav ?
Not even metal ?
Any idiot can pull full metal.

Earth and fire i always do in 2 halves. I have seen an r9.3 caster pull full earth though with his purify weapon. It looked pretty easy actually, but ye he was pretty OP. Full fire should actually not be so hard either, its just that 2 halves is safe and works good enough and no problem with resets.

Wood doesnt seem to hard to pull for casters. For me it is pretty hard unfortunately. And most importantly, unpredictable. Sometimes i can run and keep running and it amazes myself. Other times i get debuffed at the first group and need to stop and invoke at the second.

I have unfortunately never witnessed a water pull of any kind. With the proper tools i figure it shouldnt be too much a problem to do the pull itself. The killing i dont know... Never had anyone in squad even discuss the option of pulling water. b:sad

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

Not finding squads that can pull a full pav ?
Not even metal ?
Any idiot can pull full metal.

Earth and fire i always do in 2 halves. I have seen an r9.3 caster pull full earth though with his purify weapon. It looked pretty easy actually, but ye he was pretty OP. Full fire should actually not be so hard either, its just that 2 halves is safe and works good enough and no problem with resets.

Wood doesnt seem to hard to pull for casters. For me it is pretty hard unfortunately. And most importantly, unpredictable. Sometimes i can run and keep running and it amazes myself. Other times i get debuffed at the first group and need to stop and invoke at the second.

I have unfortunately never witnessed a water pull of any kind. With the proper tools i figure it shouldnt be too much a problem to do the pull itself. The killing i dont know... Never had anyone in squad even discuss the option of pulling water. b:sad

idk lol whenever I run it's either half pulls in metal or group by group, and I generally kind of roll with it. Had a barb die after running through 3 groups (he had pdef orns) who then started getting mad when I asked why he didn't wear mdef orns for pulling

Water pull = antistun all the way, kill mobs seriously fast. Got to have an ungodly good squad.

Gnip - Raging Tide

Mobless = 15 ~25 minutes so yeah...

Quilue - Sanctuary

thesquee1 wrote: »

What he says is true. A BM like me, an axe BM who still had demon HF (had, I'm sage now) could never find a squad. I would even try forming squads just to get ******* out for slowing the squad runs down. The problem with making one was most of the sins would then demand we split so they could get ride of me and get an aps BM. I always had lead so I never ended up being the one making the second squad, they'd give me the share from one run, and leave me out of the rest of the runs to worldchat for an aps BM with demon HF...

It was actually because of all this that I decided to go sage. I was demon for the sake of making conveniences for my squad, I was able to demon HF and all that good stuff, better stuns and such, but in the end, nobody wanted me in squad unless it was delta, SoT, or Abadon. Even lunar squads wanted BMs with t3 axes -and- fists because they struggled with the last vile. Nevermind the fact that I can solo it, then need me to have aps <_<. Fortunately now lunar has died down and aps is less demanded...

Who are these noobs demanding so much for PvE? It's not that hard. As long as boss dies in one immune what difference does it make?

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Salari - Raging Tide wrote: »

grats on 105 nab j/k b:victory but grats b:pleased

Lol, ty b:chuckle

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

Then again, the mob pull costs us vacs or chargers or whatever. We barbs are the ones paying the bill either way

Been impressed with many Sanctuarians. All new instances/changes have their adjustment periods but I rarely see a barb pull WS anymore and that started less than a month after G16 came out. I pull my own on BM, have seen several archers, sins, and seekers pull, and becoming more and more popular are r9t3 casters pulling because of Purify Proc. Every mob in there is magic and they have purify, antistun, and Holypath built into their weapons. R9t3 clerics make the best pullers, lol.

If pavs were defended and mobs are reduced its really not hard to pull in even tt99 gear on almost any class given good squad dynamcs.

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

Umm mobless aka IG warsong is much faster than normal warsong but only under these circumstances:

- skipping defending and skipping last boss, purely done for badge farming
- opening instances for the timer while running one so there's no need to wait in-between the runs
- there's a good teamwork and coordination so there are no deaths (multiple deaths require rebuffing, running back etc. consumes time)

...but sometimes it's too much trouble, lack of organization and coordination that usually leads to multiple deaths will make the mobless run take as long as a fast mobbed run.

Right as always. Most squads want the final boss though, for shots at weapons and for the EoO. Especially now during 2x and with the recent jump in EoO prices. And I think my fastest warsong was like 24 minutes start to finish (including 15 mins of defending pavs) and a psychic pulled that but most runs are around 35 mins. I've had many IG runs take longer than that since timer wasnt started, deaths, walking back, coordinating teleporting to the boss... Sometimes it takes just as long to coordinate entry as it does to just run the whole pav, lol.

Half the time mobs get aggrod when porting in and that just gets confusing. People get sealed prior to being able to use their anti-stuns and so they get stunned with their IG and all sorts of weird mix ups happen in some IG runs.

Btw, in Sanctuary we usually refer to "mobless warsongs" as IG runs.

Argenesis - Raging Tide wrote: »

Nirvy was a total abomination for the free to play player. BMs had to have demon HF and be 5 aps with t3+10 fists.

Nirvana was a gift to the f2p player (and N3 gear didn't exist till Nirvana kind of died).

Sure you wouldn't start out with 5 minute runs in the primo squads, but if you did enough 15 minute runs in crappy squads it didn't take long to afford gear upgrade. Your squads improved with your gear. And remember, PWI was around 2.5 years before Nirvana came out meaning you had years to farm aps gear. Nirvana also wasn't the only place to farm, as you could have farmed your aps gear in TT where it actually drops.

CSers will always have an advantage because they pay to have an advantage. Nirvana was a gift to f2p players because it gave us straightforward (somewhat simplistic) farming that helped us to catch up to the CSers. It was low risk and decent payout, unlike TT which can be very profitable or incredibly latent when nothing good drops.

If you have better gear things go faster and you get to pick who you run with. That's how games work. It is entirely fair that people with good gear that make life easier on their squad get to run with squadmates that make life easier on them, too.

(Reminisces about 19 hours of vana straight and over 150 runs. Huge payout!)

Colum - Raging Tide

Wait what, even my barb did full pulls when he had 19,5k HP and not full T3 b:surrender

Saethos - Raging Tide

Colum - Raging Tide wrote: »

Wait what, even my barb did full pulls when he had 19,5k HP and not full T3 b:surrender

In my magic marrow I can solo the fire lane in a full pull with 14k HP buffed since I still lack refines...And metal is super easy. As I said I usually like to use my antistun for wood, and I can pull water, but it's very risky, I typically don't unless I'm with a barb I know can handle roaring behind me...


One of my favorite things to do is in the event we do earth with mobs is that I go to the edge where fire and earth lanes are close together, stand on the fence and use tiger leap to jump over the gap and then I can pull fire lane backwards and meet the barb in the middle. That's always fun, and it's fast too.


In the squads I go with friends it's rare mobs last long enough for 2 HFs, and when it does they die on the second HF anyway...Usually I thrown in a GS for fire and wood though...Most BMs don't do that...In fact, most ask what GS even is when you talk about it...

Argenesis - Raging Tide

I'm just going to ignore the people that are under the delusion that I'm QQing even though I'm really laughing at idiots that can't manage their time and talk about the warsong pulls instead <_<

Saethos is actually my brother irl, him and I have done quite a few runs together, naturally. Whenever he comes with us he always brings his friends, which he seems to have an endless supply of clerics inside of. I swear he has a harem...But anyway, usually things go smoothly. The guy is nutts, I don't know if he's just good or if it's just his gear...But basically since him and his friends know how eachother works, going with him is almost always quick and painless.

Also, while I know you're online...Remember the willow tree? I will never let you outlive that b:laugh

Saethos - Raging Tide

Argenesis - Raging Tide wrote: »

I'm just going to ignore the people that are under the delusion that I'm QQing even though I'm really laughing at idiots that can't manage their time and talk about the warsong pulls instead <_<

Saethos is actually my brother irl, him and I have done quite a few runs together, naturally. Whenever he comes with us he always brings his friends, which he seems to have an endless supply of clerics inside of. I swear he has a harem...But anyway, usually things go smoothly. The guy is nutts, I don't know if he's just good or if it's just his gear...But basically since him and his friends know how eachother works, going with him is almost always quick and painless.

Also, while I know you're online...Remember the willow tree? I will never let you outlive that b:laugh

These days if anyone says anything about anyone it's QQing...

You're just a noob still :P I'm not incredibly good, I've just done it a billion times. r9 helps.

Anf **** the willow tree QQ

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Saethos - Raging Tide wrote: »

In my magic marrow I can solo the fire lane in a full pull with 14k HP buffed since I still lack refines...And metal is super easy. As I said I usually like to use my antistun for wood, and I can pull water, but it's very risky, I typically don't unless I'm with a barb I know can handle roaring behind me...

One of my favorite things to do is in the event we do earth with mobs is that I go to the edge where fire and earth lanes are close together, stand on the fence and use tiger leap to jump over the gap and then I can pull fire lane backwards and meet the barb in the middle. That's always fun, and it's fast too.

Lol, I do the same thing (pull to the start).

Back in the day with only about 9k hp Joshcja and I used to do full (undefended) fire pulls and not even need a cleric because 2 Bms with demon RotP = 12 out of 15 seconds stunned and they'd barely be able to attack in between.

And yah, BM pulling using his 15 second anti stun and barb catching is one of the cheaper and more effective ways to pull. Again, people get stuck in the mindset that the only person aggroing/pulling mobs is the barb, but the BM pulling and the barb catching is a very nice way to do things.

One thing to add of why I avoid IG runs. In fire, water, and wood we'll often send the sin stealthed to clear the mobs right at the entrance so we aren't getting bubbled/debuffed/interupted as we port in. To me its easier just send the whole squad and take 60 seconds to clear the pav than to sit there and wait as a single sin clears the mob by the teleport point.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

None of the fac catas seem to be on and not afk when I do BH/warsong usually lol

Rarely get a barb that can pull. Most just stick to crappy T2/TT90 gear and rely on vit to hit that basic bit of HP, and usually I see barbs with pdef ornaments lol. One of them died before turning around on a half metal pull.

Rarely find a good puller barb

Why a barb? There's other class that can do the same thing, I know some archers, venos etc... that can make better pull than barbs...

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

Why a barb? There's other class that can do the same thing, I know some archers, venos etc... that can make better pull than barbs...

Because it's not just barbs that have the 'I R TANK' mentality, it's the squads that want barbs to be like that, so most conform to it, it's quite sad actually.

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

Why a barb? There's other class that can do the same thing, I know some archers, venos etc... that can make better pull than barbs...

I usually tend to run with 6K sins, G15 BMs with LA orns and TT90 clerics, with assorted gear levels of caster. Not one of those OP people running with other OP people lol
>WC squads

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Nirvana was a gift to the f2p player (and N3 gear didn't exist till Nirvana kind of died).

Sure you wouldn't start out with 5 minute runs in the primo squads, but if you did enough 15 minute runs in crappy squads it didn't take long to afford gear upgrade. Your squads improved with your gear. And remember, PWI was around 2.5 years before Nirvana came out meaning you had years to farm aps gear. Nirvana also wasn't the only place to farm, as you could have farmed your aps gear in TT where it actually drops.

CSers will always have an advantage because they pay to have an advantage. Nirvana was a gift to f2p players because it gave us straightforward (somewhat simplistic) farming that helped us to catch up to the CSers. It was low risk and decent payout, unlike TT which can be very profitable or incredibly latent when nothing good drops.

If you have better gear things go faster and you get to pick who you run with. That's how games work. It is entirely fair that people with good gear that make life easier on their squad get to run with squadmates that make life easier on them, too.

(Reminisces about 19 hours of vana straight and over 150 runs. Huge payout!)

well said. people see one squad forming and suddenly think that anyone else is rejected from all squads.

tweakz

CS'ers have advantage? -What's that? Seriously. Merchants are able to keep up with most of the heaviest CSers. Farmers keep up? -More a matter of how much free time they have to farm. Why years later people are still ignorant of merchants and blame and qq about CSers? Imagine CS'ing your R8 gear before that big sale that made it 20% of the normal price. -Advantage?

Physical Ornaments on Barb? - Yeah; I have a +10 cube neck I use for 3 mages on the same account. I use the rings that give me acc, and dmg. With a combo of G15 pve, and G16 gears unsharded; I don't feel lacking enough to even shard sapphires.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

tweakz wrote: »

CS'ers have advantage? -What's that? Seriously. Merchants are able to keep up with most of the heaviest CSers. Farmers keep up? -More a matter of how much free time they have to farm. Why years later people are still ignorant of merchants and blame and qq about CSers? Imagine CS'ing your R8 gear before that big sale that made it 20% of the normal price. -Advantage?

Gear for no work in game is an advantage, yes. I know you like to argue moot points, but why is this so hard to understand? Merchanting is huge but merchants who also cash shop have an advantage. Farming is huge, but being able to buy the gear first so you can farm easier/faster is an advantage. Anytime you can just throw money to advance your game situation you get an advantage.

Not making a moral stance on csing. I put in over 20 hours a week of playing time plus have a merchant alt but I am free to play. Others don't have that time or will to keep a comp running and shop up and so use money. This keeps the game alive but means they are getting something in game for no work (sure it has its rl costs, but its an in game advantage).

Don't see why you have an issue understanding this, or just want to argue.

Argenesis - Raging Tide

tweakz wrote: »

CS'ers have advantage? -What's that? Seriously. Merchants are able to keep up with most of the heaviest CSers. Farmers keep up? -More a matter of how much free time they have to farm. Why years later people are still ignorant of merchants and blame and qq about CSers? Imagine CS'ing your R8 gear before that big sale that made it 20% of the normal price. -Advantage?

Physical Ornaments on Barb? - Yeah; I have a +10 cube neck I use for 3 mages on the same account. I use the rings that give me acc, and dmg. With a combo of G15 pve, and G16 gears unsharded; I don't feel lacking enough to even shard sapphires.

Who said anything about CSers?

Moot point is moot.

tweakz

Argenesis - Raging Tide wrote: »

Who said anything about CSers?

Moot point is moot.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

CSers will always have an advantage because they pay to have an advantage.

fail troll is fail -idiotic response I know, but i dumb myself down for this troll infested forum.

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Don't see why you have an issue understanding this, or just want to argue.

answered your own question

Without the CSers none of us F2P people would be here. Farming R8/R9 is simply a matter of buying them from CSers with money made ingame, after all.

Now let's get back to the topic of warsong?

Had awesome WS run with r9rr seeker, r9rr dag +10 gear aps sin, G16 cleric, G16 psy, myself (g15 wep 3 pieces G16 armor) and a G15/TT90 barb. Even though seeker solo'd earth pav + normal earth boss and reverse pulled wood it still took a long time to get through water, and fire we took group by group as well. Skipping all that would really speed thing up

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Without the CSers none of us F2P people would be here. Farming R8/R9 is simply a matter of buying them from CSers with money made ingame, after all.

Now let's get back to the topic of warsong?

Pretty much, there's a reason all you cheap TT gear buyers get ur mats for cheap if you dont farm em. b:chuckle That mainly goes for the 'I'll never be able to afford r9' people as well.