NV3 and R9RR Comparison

speculate123

Considering only for the PVE sake. Getting interval NV3 Daggers 2 sockets +10 how these compare to r9 3rd cast +10 with the same shards?

Looking at the simple scenario with the adequate gear:
NV - http://pwcalc.com/8e04b7145abcf5a4
r9 - http://pwcalc.com/d2eea606df10ba9f

(R9 3rd cast having an average satisfactory stats with 22 attack lvl, +4% and +8 dex.)

Now, 3 sparked damage per second: 88455-107350 (NV3) and 75936-93996 (r9)
In this category NV wins, but R9 does have an advantage of having extra 22 attack level, and zerg.

Which one do you think is better?

skaitavia

If you're only going for PvE, then go for the T3 Nirvana daggers because they're dirt cheap compared to R9r2.

speculate123

Skaitavia wrote: »

If you're only going for PvE, then go for the T3 Nirvana daggers because they're dirt cheap compared to R9r2.

They seem to be more efficient as, Lunar NV3 Daggers are tradable and therefore if any new gear come out you can always sell it. Just to top it up, I also thiink if you lucky enough to get 2x int you can be 4.0 sage sin or 5.0 demon sin with set of (2) NV3 cape and helm +700HP. Although my main focus here is to compare damage, and how does zerk and 22 atk lvl compare to that extra 1attack per sec.

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

Due to better spark with 5.0 sparked, NV T3> R9rr. R9rr is better only because of zerk, which may or may not be actually good in pve

Rice_hero - Lost City

For PVE purposes you say?
300-400m weapon vs 1.5 billion weapon w/ refines and gems included
Efficiency goes to NV3b:chuckle

Xinnz - Heavens Tear

tbh, i have a friend with equal gears as my aps gears and we do PvE a few times. same refines except he has DoTs on helm and cape which i dont. however, even if he pulls bosses, i would always find myself taking agro shortly after which would indicate i deal more damage. this is all based on my experience.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

speculate123 wrote: »

They seem to be more efficient as, Lunar NV3 Daggers are tradable and therefore if any new gear come out you can always sell it. Just to top it up, I also thiink if you lucky enough to get 2x int you can be 4.0 sage sin or 5.0 demon sin with set of (2) NV3 cape and helm +700HP. Although my main focus here is to compare damage, and how does zerk and 22 atk lvl compare to that extra 1attack per sec.

Dps of those is r9t3=278900 and N3=230698 although you didn't put damage adds on the G16. So <21% difference, which is substantial but r9t3 costs about 15x the amount.

We calculate GoF as a 20% boost to dps since it theoretically procs 20% of the time. The difference between 4 aps and 5 aps is 25%.

So, there are tons of things to consider. Obviously, price difference is huge. G16 is very obtainable and gets you massive dps but r9t3 is more versatile as it is the highest dps and the highest dph for skill spam. I guess I'll just do points.

R9t3:
~GoF is preferred for PvP.
~Attack levels mean opponent def levels are less of a factor.
~+2 range means they can step out of range of most opponent weapon ranges and use skills to attack.
~+2 range means there is no need to move if you use a skill at max range (4.5m) and then want to aps (2.5m with other daggers).
~Best aoers
~Auto 2 socket.
~Better base damage at low refines.

N3:
~About 1/15th the cost.
~Better refine rate.
~Add-ons can target survivability like +19 vitality/+2 def levels.
~Allow more versatility in gear, ie 2 pieces G16/r9 armor while remaining 5 aps.
~Can get 2x -int for even further gear versatility.
~Can spark sooner for heals/resist.
~Can use skills like Subsea without falling short of permaspark or needing to use a chi skill.
~Can still retain permaspark if stunned/slept without skill use.
~Tradable/resellable if Lunar.
~"Gains" more from Chill of the Deep. Since much of r9t3 dagger damage is based off of attack levels it doesn't gain as much when you add 30-35 attack levels.
~Doesn't rely on GoF for damage so wont take damage from that.

There's probably a lot more but that's a decent enough breakdown I think.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

~Allow more versatility in gear, ie 2 pieces G16/r9 armor while remaining 5 aps.
~Can get 2x -int for even further gear versatility.

huh? how do you get 2 pieces of g16/r9 and still remain 5aps with a single -int on daggers?

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

Hat + shoes?

But then you need 2X -int lol

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

huh? how do you get 2 pieces of g16/r9 and still remain 5aps with a single -int on daggers?

By being an idiot b:surrender

Was 7:10 am for me and hadn't been to bed and was thinking G16 LA wrists had -.1 int on them.

Kyougu - Sanctuary

I guarantee you that if you decide to get NV3, you will be using them to farm for your R9RR daggers. b:victory

I honestly don't think that people should advise others to get NV3 over R9RR-- unless a huge price issue is involved. It is a malicious sabotage worthy of forum ban. I've felt this way ever since people were suggesting G15 int GoF over R9 as endgame daggers.

By the way, your sin build is actually tankier than mine in APS b:shocked

On a side note, Nation War is damn embarrassing. Logged in to get a blessing but lost interest in NW by the time I finished posting.

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

Kyougu - Sanctuary wrote: »

I guarantee you that if you decide to get NV3, you will be using them to farm for your R9RR daggers. b:victory

I honestly don't think that people should advise others to get NV3 over R9RR-- unless a huge price issue is involved. It is a malicious sabotage worthy of forum ban. I've felt this way ever since people were suggesting G15 int GoF over R9 as endgame daggers.

By the way, your sin build is actually tankier than mine in APS b:shocked

On a side note, Nation War is damn embarrassing. Logged in to get a blessing but lost interest in NW by the time I finished posting.

answered yourself. R9rr daggers with a decent roll cost enough to almost +10 NV3

Salari - Raging Tide

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

answered yourself. R9rr daggers with a decent roll cost enough to almost +10 NV3

This, the whole reason (Aside more damage) G15 Nivarna was a lot cheaper than a R9 weapon, then and now. NW only made reforging R9 and Niv weapons alot cheaper. Coin wise you cant beat G16 Niv.

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

Can't beat better base dmg, better refines and 40 more atk levels with just zerk on a G15 weapon, which is why I always say NV3 or gtfo go R9rr if you want zerk

HideYoHubby - Archosaur

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

answered yourself. R9rr daggers with a decent roll cost enough to almost +10 NV3

Pretty sure my N3+12 dags cost me less than getting clean R999 dags would of on Archosaur. As this is a farming toon I wasnt willing to pay for those dags due that and people been halftrolling me for not being R999... I do wonder do they truly believe the biggest farmer on server currently is just filling bank with the gold mats? Discounting the sighs that dont want to sell and drop like flies <.<. But to topic.

For farming purposes N3 rocks hard as the extra chi gain is just amazing compared to 4aps, I was 4aps with R8 dags in past and I wouldnt believe the difference how much more comfy the extra gain to 5aps is. And its the reason why N3 farming speed isnt that far from R999 farming speed. Lot of bosses do ****, messing up spark cycles and thus making chi regen difficult at times. Raw damage though? I am pretty sure R999+10 sin out dps`d me on tigers this week but he is DoT sharded vs my defensive shards.

Ps. If you arent going to PvP on sin, dont waste your coin on R999 dags.

//SINNER\ - Raging Tide24

I've finished my T3 +10 nirvy daggers in February. Two days ago I got my R9w daggers, made em +11. Slightly over 4 months farming.

Gotta tell you one thing. One zerk crit = more than 7-9 attacks with T3 +10. Sparked.

HrunsPanda - Archosaur

Kyougu - Sanctuary wrote: »

I guarantee you that if you decide to get NV3, you will be using them to farm for your R9RR daggers. b:victory

I honestly don't think that people should advise others to get NV3 over R9RR-- unless a huge price issue is involved. It is a malicious sabotage worthy of forum ban. I've felt this way ever since people were suggesting G15 int GoF over R9 as endgame daggers.

By the way, your sin build is actually tankier than mine in APS b:shocked

On a side note, Nation War is damn embarrassing. Logged in to get a blessing but lost interest in NW by the time I finished posting.

I guess here speaks the proud new (CS) owner of r9.3 b:chuckle

Reminds me of the guy i met last week in game in standard r9. He was also very proud of it and not amused at all when i stated that it is nothing better than G16 b:laugh

Salari - Raging Tide

//SINNER\ - Raging Tide wrote: »

I've finished my T3 +10 nirvy daggers in February. Two days ago I got my R9w daggers, made em +11. Slightly over 4 months farming.

Gotta tell you one thing. One zerk crit = more than 7-9 attacks with T3 +10. Sparked.

how much do you zerk for, and on what bosses?

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

//SINNER\ - Raging Tide wrote: »

Gotta tell you one thing. One zerk crit = more than 7-9 attacks with T3 +10. Sparked.

It should still only be roughly 4-5 times the damage. R9t3 has the attack levels, G16 has better refines and damage adds.

I was dualing a friend (so no charm involved) while we waited for people at the Seat boss. Friend was a 20k hp bm with a JoSD and vit mix and I could kill him while keeping a stun lock going in about 12 seconds unsparked. I usually avoid CotD (guess I'm rare like that. 15% more dph isn't worth loss of aps to me). It'd obviously be harder vs a charmed opponent, and aps+skill spam doesn't work as well against purify proc so I'd have to change my technique, but taking out 20k hp on an endgame BM in 12 seconds is decently impressive.

GoF makes pk easier and is a much more practical choice but by no means is N3 not good enough for endgame pk.

//SINNER\ - Raging Tide25

3-3 bosses.
T3 +10 - sparked: 4,5-5,7k (+/- 100dmg)
R9w +11 - sparked: 6,5-7,5 (again, +/- some extra dmg)

highest zerk crit (I thnk it was on minister or emperor in 3-3) was ~43k without any dmg amplification.

To make the image clearer - previously I was doing around 280k dmg per spark (closer to 400 if I used my genie to debuff), now it reaches 500-600k easily (up to 1m if I use genie). I kill colluseast pretty much within 5-6 spark circles provided I don't fail to time spark/ad when I'm "about to become one of them".


I used to think that T3 nirvy will do as my endgame - but then my 5aps +10 dags and friend's 4 aps R9w sin with +3 on weapon + 56 atk lvls on it (still in recasting era) had aggro jumping in FWS - that made me clear that R9w daggers outDD T3 by very far.
Unless ofc you get like double or triple int, get defensive ornies, T2 wrists, T3 boots and you can tank hella more than me. I still get to kill things quicker giving my opponents MUCH less time to kill me. I'm still focusing on pve (it's more than obvious, that r9>t3 pvp wise)

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

but taking out 20k hp on an endgame BM in 12 seconds is decently impressive.

use CT + elemental damage apo, you'll eat that hp much faster.

Salari - Raging Tide

I figured you would hit harder with r9s3, are you not pure dex? Even the g16's seem a bit low. I know me having almost all DoT's amps my damage more, but something seems wrong there

Deadalus - Harshlands

Well i can confirm, that r9rr deals way more damage then G16 does, because i stole aggro with my daggers (58 Attack Level, 16 DEX, 5% Crit) on +5 from a G16+10 5aps sin. We didnt had aggro ping pong, so i was dealing way more.

With +7, which my dagger is now, i have trouble gettng aggro from G16+12 5aps Sins, but sometimes i still have aggro and can keep it for long ( "long" in terms of till the boss is dead, because it usually dies fast heh).

So i decidet to not refine my +7 g16 daggers higher and farm for r9 instead, because it deals just so much more damage and the gof add is way more important then the aps is.

//SINNER\ - Raging Tide26

nearly pure dex, have about 10 extra points in str, sharded with citrines.

Salari - Raging Tide

Oh I am not doubting R9s3 has a higher dph and dps than G16, just those numbers sinner posted just seem a bit low, my damage range on bosses in 3-3 is 6-25k and peak's around 80k with hf/amp ect and thats with g16 niv. I can deal just a tad over 1m dmg through first spark and average around 6-700k average per spark after, that is with sage barb buffs(who runs 3-3 with no buffs ).

That damage sinner posted on g16's look more like g13-g15 weapon dmg not g16. Maybe it is just my build.

Deadalus - Harshlands

Well when the Boss is well debuffed (HF, Devour and Sage Amp) i can reach up to 120k hits with zerk crits on auto attacks. Lv 10 Barb Buffs are on but still, my Daggers are only +7.

Average hits, i would say 70-80k with the debuffs, without its around 20-25k. Spike damage can be higher, but thats not average.

Ofc im talking about TT 3-3 bosses, but still i deal way less damage with my g16 daggers then i do with r9rr and its not by an amount, that you could say "meh, r9rr isnt that good compared to g16".

g16 is a pure farming weapon for me, r9rr is an overall better weapon, so hmm b:chuckle


Edit: Oh and with normal DG, i can drop TT 3-3 bosses to half most of the time. So thats around 2mil damage in that spark (With Power Dash).

Salari - Raging Tide

This is pretty close to what i peak at, the only difference now is having more hp and a tad more dmg from meridian and refines.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxMv_qkwvkI

Deadalus - Harshlands

Nice, well i say, that 10-11k HP is enough for PvE purposes, when i want more DEF and HP, i go r9 set (well i dont have one but i work on it lol).

I have 11k HP buffed with barb buffs and i survive pretty much anything i do at the moment, so its fine.
In NW its the lack of DEF which kills me fast but the damage is fine hehe.

You have +10 daggers i assume? The amount of damage we deal is similar, my average and spike is higher (obviously) but g16 deals without doubt, good damage. You have 5APS, we have more crit, that should balance things out.

b:victory

Salari - Raging Tide

Yeah the 10k was ok then, I have right at 11.7k in my pve gear and close to 13k in my pvp gear now. Currently I have 3 r9s2 armors and 1 r9s3 armor(feet), I may get the pendant, but only for the set bonus @ stage 3. I still have a ways to go

//SINNER\ - Raging Tide27

I'd like to show you something, salari.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSzraBa4_7o

around 8:40


watch your damage, watch how much dmg you deal per spark.

QED.

Salari - Raging Tide

yeah it peaked around 20k which isn't to bad

//SINNER\ - Raging Tide28

you said you had "6-25k" on bosses. You didn't even remotely touch those 25k and lowest was averaging around 4.5k

further discussion is pointless. T3 is good for pve, but can't possibly match R9w