HA Cleric

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

Mayfly - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I thought the reason was the change in respawn from auto respawn in Happy Valley to using the quest revive scrolls. Without those, spawn point would be very difficult to do.

hm, I think I did a SP before those but definitely not sure. yeah it helps in case someone dies but, especially before w3, hardly anyone dies o:

tweakz

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

btw tweakz, did I mention how deeply ironic is that you laugh and call noobs people that wc LF barb for X while yourself say that you *need* a pure mag cleric so you can do w2/snake? you are the same kind of noob players, the ones that are stuck in a 'perfect squad' midnset. in fact, they are better than you since they realise that a proper tank, instead of some ego-stroking derpa-derpa-i-need-more-attack pure glass cannon caster, would be better.

Paraphrase much? Do I say I need pure mag cleric, or do I say if I need to pot: then cleric is a waste of squad space? There's so much ignorance out there that I'll let my wiz die in RB to show these ignorant clerics how pathetic their heals are.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

tweakz wrote: »

Paraphrase much? Do I say I need pure mag cleric, or do I say if I need to pot: then cleric is a waste of squad space? There's so much ignorance out there that I'll let my wiz die in RB to show these ignorant clerics how pathetic their heals are.

pretty much yes:

tweakz wrote: »

I do feel the argument could be swayed toward low matk, but I don't hold it as much against pure mag clerics with low matk because at least they're visibly conscious of the weak heal issue. 99% of the time when one argues survivability from vit/HA: they are defending their right to use other people's charms and pots to compensate their own shortcoming.

Kinda stupid to let them teleport to Warsong for metal and drop mirages before kicking them when every one you've seen prior is a waste of squad space there.

guess I'm the 1% that argues that a pure armor/weapon+10 build is equivalent to a vit armor+8 weapon+11?b:cute

SMASHnHEAL - Dreamweaver

tweakz wrote: »

To be HA; You'd likely not be rank. You'd also be lacking the +mag from G16 AA gears. With 4 G16 AA gears and a +12 G16 wand with 1 sapphire gem: my matk is ~20k.

Pure mage +12 weapon G16 here with over 500 mag. I would totally welcome stronger heals! Overkill just isn't possible from my perspective.

I never see an HA cleric with a decent enough weapon to consider. I'm not saying they don't exist: I'm saying it's just not common. It's not common for a reason. My cleric has no rank gear, no armor/ornament refines over +10, no patk rings, and can tank BH SoT, Aba, Lunar, Metal, and many other things.

Firstly for someone that thinks they know everything you do tend to make a lot of assumptions. Firstly I am rank as is the other well geared HA cleric on our server, r9rr weapon, belt and upgraded r9 ring.

I find it funny that you pull out a number like 20k matk attack as being a good number for a pure magic cleric. As a HA cleric I have 24k matk buffed and you are going to tell me my heals are too weak? Your perspective of heals doesn't make any sense as there is a point where a high matk is overkill, healing above someones max HP doesn't mean you are healing better.

HA clerics in most cases will have a decent weapon, ones that know what they are doing. I accept that my matk is alot lower than what it could be so I always made sure I had the refines to compensate for it a little. I must however bow down to you being able to tank all those extremely hard instances, I am sure with your ego and pure magic you can do anything b:surrender O wait... I am yet to find a pve situation that I can't do, most of the time better than an AA. Please post a video of you soloing harpy or something actually hard then I will be impressed.

tweakz

What I stated SMASHnHEAL just went over your head. Not even worth responding to. You just don't get it, and make it obvious with ignorant statements like:

"healing above someones max HP doesn't mean you are healing better" -already addressed.

Aeliah - Dreamweaver

tweakz wrote: »

What I stated SMASHnHEAL just went over your head. Not even worth responding to. You just don't get it, and make it obvious with ignorant statements like:

"healing above someones max HP doesn't mean you are healing better" -already addressed.

Tweakz go troll elsewhere. You have no right to speak about clerics when you've never, EVER given definitive proof that you have a cleric worth a damn. You are the ignorant one, and you are fooling nobody here into thinking that somehow the burble of words out of your mouth are somehow constructive to whatever subject you obsess over next. Heavy armor clerics can work JUST FINE if DONE RIGHT. Deal with it. Go find some other rotten bone to worry over.

tweakz

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Tweakz go troll elsewhere. You have no right to speak about clerics when you've never, EVER given definitive proof that you have a cleric worth a damn. You are the ignorant one, and you are fooling nobody here into thinking that somehow the burble of words out of your mouth are somehow constructive to whatever subject you obsess over next. Heavy armor clerics can work JUST FINE if DONE RIGHT. Deal with it. Go find some other rotten bone to worry over.

You are stupid!

-Just thought to respond with like response.

My cleric is not a chromaspammer which makes it better than 90% of the clerics on HT. My cleric can tank BH SoT, Aba, Lunar, RB, and Metal which makes it better than 95% of the mages on HT. To insult my cleric is to insult most of Heaven's Tear.

SMASHnHEAL - Dreamweaver

tweakz wrote: »

You are stupid!

-Just thought to respond with like response.

My cleric is not a chromaspammer which makes it better than 90% of the clerics on HT. My cleric can tank BH SoT, Aba, Lunar, RB, and Metal which makes it better than 95% of the mages on HT. To insult my cleric is to insult most of Heaven's Tear.

I feel very sorry for HT clerics then...

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

tweakz wrote: »

You are stupid!

-Just thought to respond with like response.

My cleric is not a chromaspammer which makes it better than 90% of the clerics on HT. My cleric can tank BH SoT, Aba, Lunar, RB, and Metal which makes it better than 95% of the mages on HT. To insult my cleric is to insult most of Heaven's Tear.

vids where?

Your couldn't even afford G16 claws for your BM why would we believe you have a pimped out cleric?

Zsw - Dreamweaver

95% is being generous.
The people who truly know what they must do and are able to do it, while being able to recognise their mistake and improve upon it are probably around 1%.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

tweakz wrote: »

My cleric is not a chromaspammer which makes it better than 90% of the clerics on HT. My cleric can tank BH SoT, Aba, Lunar, RB, and Metal which makes it better than 95% of the mages on HT. To insult my cleric is to insult most of Heaven's Tear.

since when do we rate clerics by whether they can tank a boss? can you keep a derpa-derpa 5k aps sin tank alive? that's a cleric's test.

VKnightV - Lost City

not to tweak he is a metal dd mage b:chuckle

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

VKnightV - Lost City wrote: »

not to tweak he is a metal dd mage b:chuckle

You forgot PVE metalmage. In all my years I've never seen this guy in NW or TW or anything else -- when I press T in either I can only hope one of these days I see him. xD

Tweakz has this religious mindset about pixel characters that flies in the face of both logic and experience, and really when this discussion includes PVP he's the last person that should be giving advice to anyone.

A cleric who is geared well can be HA and do just fine. In fact, it's a great build for PVE and PVP alike. One poster stated she is R9 combined with HA.. with a well refined Sanctity, they will do just fine given the primary goals of a cleric. No, they will not outdamage or outheal a pure magic cleric with the same gear, but their heals will be quite sufficient, and moreover, their survivability will be higher.. which is the primary goal for HA cleric or veno.

The only way HA is a bad build is if the person doesn't invest in decent gear and doesn't understand it's strengths/weaknesses.

Irony is, this is an eerily similar argument that transpired in the veno subforum years ago surrounding HA or HA/AA build veno's, with tweakz participating.. some people never learn, and in tweakz' case the only thing I can surmise is that he really wants affirmation that he's made the best build so he criticizes others who don't play like him. It's gotten to a point where it seems like he has Aspergers or something, and tearing him a new *** would almost be like beating up on a mentally handicapped kid.

Desdi - Sanctuary

Technically speaking, R9r3 armor beats HA in survival when considering high end refine/shards but in the case of Nirvana vs. Nirvana HA does have an advantage (though it works slightly different for venomancers than clerics).

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver

HA clerics are annoying for me to kill = good.

Compared to the other clerics in their faction; Smashy takes a good beating before going down lol

Considering their role is to stay alive long enough to keep the catas alive long enough, the build is one of the better examples of a non mainstream build for a class. With a r9rr wep/emperor making up for the reduction in m-att and epic pdef, in a mass pvp scenario gl taking a well geared well played HA cleric down.

Aeliah - Dreamweaver

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver wrote: »

HA clerics are annoying for me to kill = good.

Compared to the other clerics in their faction; Smashy takes a good beating before going down lol

Considering their role is to stay alive long enough to keep the catas alive long enough, the build is one of the better examples of a non mainstream build for a class. With a r9rr wep/emperor making up for the reduction in m-att and epic pdef, in a mass pvp scenario gl taking a well geared well played HA cleric down.

Smash's build is possibly a better TW build, where archers tend to target the cleric more often than other classes, because often archers are the only ones with enough range and mobility to target a cleric who is hiding behind their allies. Of course, the build is practically immune to assassins, blademasters, and bms.

In general pvp, nation wars, etc, the build runs into some minor problems with magic defense, though the hp makes up for some of this.

The biggest problem, of course, is that you can't kill any r9rr decently geared anybodies. There is a saying that 'the best defense is a strong offense', and that does apply here. If you are trying to pvp people, if you don't hit hard enough, your opponents can try riskier, chi-costlier tactics, without fearing quick death if their combos don't work.

A nice example would be the times I've fought smashy on my dps assassin. When fighting most r9rr jaded arcanes, my assassin has almost no chance. The r9rr damage is: ordinary hits charm bypass, and crits one-shot. When facing down smash though, my assassin can tank quite a few more hits, which means I can get and stay right in smash's melee range for much longer, throwing triple spark after triple spark, or pulling out the bow and trying for purges (trying to purge a jaded arcane r9rr is just asking to die). The result is that I can sometimes win against smash on sin where I couldn't against a normal arcane r9rr.

The caveat to this is that, it can take a very, very long time for my sin to kill smash. So in group situations where my sin only gets limited attempts, the heavy armor build is really great.

Definitely a workable build that is great at support, as long as you accept its offensive drawbacks.

SMASHnHEAL - Dreamweaver

Like Desdi said there is a huge gap between r9rr and G16 nivana armour, add in high level shards this only adds to it. I think people tend to forget that I am only in G16 nivana armour with only a few jades and the rest is just sharded with flawless citrines. In saying this people that know me can vouch that I know how to live and in the right situations be extremely tanky.

Since I last posted my build I have made a number of changes, notably the addition of NW upgrades to r9 ring/cloud stir and just last night finally made the NW necklace. Once I can +10 the neck I will be looking at 18k mdef rather than the 12k I had a few months back.

I have always agreed that a full magic r9rr build is more optimal, I started this cleric around 3 and a half years ago and ave enjoyed being HA from the start and will not change it. One day I may finally may finish it and see just what it can do. Sadly someone on DW has made a HA cleric and maxed out gears before me, they went vit stones rather than the jades I am aiming for - last time I checked they sat at just under 30k HP, maybe Aeliah can comment on his survivabilty if they have fought...

Desdi - Sanctuary

Still pretty neat Smashy go for it. Also agreed that it might be a an ideal build for TW considering Archers are usually after Clerics.

Aeliah - Dreamweaver

Ah... yes, that cleric. Problematic with the vit build is I'm doing 10k+ crits on it while on cleric, so the extra hp doesn't count for as much as you'd think. Also keep in mind that the lower your hp is, the easier it is to keep it topped up, and clerics in general don't get much hp from vit. A jades heavy armor build is definitely better (only a few cases where defense is better than defense levels, for example, blade tornado, absorb soul) and heavy armor build doesn't have to worry about those anyways. Probably that person uses vit stones because that is what their main barb already had, not because vit is ideal. Anyways.

Oh yeah, I did fight that cleric a few times (name is slipping my mind atm) and, well... everybody needs a genie with at least one of belief/heart of steel/tree of protection to survive me, and he is no exception.

SMASHnHEAL - Dreamweaver

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Ah... yes, that cleric. Problematic with the vit build is I'm doing 10k+ crits on it while on cleric, so the extra hp doesn't count for as much as you'd think. Also keep in mind that the lower your hp is, the easier it is to keep it topped up, and clerics in general don't get much hp from vit. A jades heavy armor build is definitely better (only a few cases where defense is better than defense levels, for example, blade tornado, absorb soul) and heavy armor build doesn't have to worry about those anyways. Probably that person uses vit stones because that is what their main barb already had, not because vit is ideal. Anyways.

Oh yeah, I did fight that cleric a few times (name is slipping my mind atm) and, well... everybody needs a genie with at least one of belief/heart of steel/tree of protection to survive me, and he is no exception.

Re_Animator not sure who is main is/was but he seemed to pop up out of nowhere. I have fought him a couple of times, not overly impressive and we both tend to act as a meat shield so 1v1 the outcome is almost always a draw.

With the price of jades I had toyed with the option of sharding some vit stones but I really didn't see a big enough difference in the calcs to really want to. Now I have finished the NW items I can focus on getting some more jades and finishing refines.

leeloki

SMASHnHEAL - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Re_Animator not sure who is main is/was but he seemed to pop up out of nowhere. I have fought him a couple of times, not overly impressive and we both tend to act as a meat shield so 1v1 the outcome is almost always a draw.

With the price of jades I had toyed with the option of sharding some vit stones but I really didn't see a big enough difference in the calcs to really want to. Now I have finished the NW items I can focus on getting some more jades and finishing refines.

Tbh Smash we've fought once in Nw that's all about 3 months ago lol. but will be more than happy for another you were one of the 1st HA clerics on Dw and you know you're class very well and have always had high respect for you, keep up the good work!

Alphaben - Raging Tide

T2 HA cleric with T2 glaive is delicious...b:dirty

I set up BB in NW and just stand there watching sins trying to knock it down b:laugh

Aeliah - Dreamweaver

Knife throw gg.

Colum - Raging Tide

If that doesn't work, throatcut/headhunt/shadow teleport/deep sting gg.

SMASHnHEAL - Dreamweaver

leeloki wrote: »

Tbh Smash we've fought once in Nw that's all about 3 months ago lol. but will be more than happy for another you were one of the 1st HA clerics on Dw and you know you're class very well and have always had high respect for you, keep up the good work!

There were a number of others before me but none that stuck it out, I was certainly the best geared one back in the day. I would love to finally finish this build off and it's great to see someone like yourself take on the project and get it mostly finished, I am a bit envious that I am no longer the best gear HA cleric b:chuckle

Sadly I have spent less time in pk and r9rr gear has completely taken over to the extent where my skills level doesn't mean a lot anymore. I am happy with the reputation I have earned over the years and the many friends I still have on DW and wouldn't change my build or who I am for anything.

CANUS_MAJOR - Archosaur

I personally love the idea of HA magic classes, considering I have an HA veno myself! Keep at it Fissile! Though I will say some magic classes have better benefits than others when going HA

If i had to make an order of magic classes that benefit the most from HA it would be:

Veno
Mystic
Cleric
Wiz
Psy

Though I would say mystic and cleric r tied for second b:pleased

freygin

Can a HA cleric actually kill in pvp if the opponent has equal gears (same level of grade, refines, and shards) , or being HA mainly just for support ? arcane robe cleric vs heavy armor cleric, who will win ?

Does any endgame HA cleric have a pwcalc link to share, I'd like to see the build and how the gear setup looks like for an endgame HA cleric.

Yuuniee - Dreamweaver

freygin wrote: »

Can a HA cleric actually kill in pvp if the opponent has equal gears (same level of grade, refines, and shards) , or being HA mainly just for support ? arcane robe cleric vs heavy armor cleric, who will win ?

Does any endgame HA cleric have a pwcalc link to share, I'd like to see the build and how the gear setup looks like for an endgame HA cleric.

Obviously the AA Cleric will mostly win because HA cleric is built to counter physical damage dealer. HA cleric is still a magic damage dealer which is not a threat to the AA cleric. Whereas AA cleric has a higher base magic and would deal a lot of damage to HA but HA has more hp.

In a 1vs1 situation, I think AA cleric has a higher chance of winning due to that HA cleric lacks damage output and has a lower resistance to magic.

Cleric vs Cleric, hard to kill each other.b:surrenderb:surrenderb:surrender