I need tips on how to reach 100 without touching fc

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

GlenRoss - Archosaur wrote: »

<sigh> Do I really have to say again that almost nobody is suggesting complete removal of FC?

i did not imply that someone is suggesting removing FC, only that OP wants to exclude FC from his learning schedule.

GlenRoss - Archosaur wrote: »

Not sure what point you're making. I'm not endorsing 300 runs through FC.

the point I was trying to make is that 10 FC runs + heads is roughtly equivalent, as fast as learning is concerned, to 300 FC runs

GlenRoss - Archosaur wrote: »

Classic strawman. No one is suggesting throwing anything out. No one has even mentioned throwing out any of the other things you've mentioned. This is not worth addressing any further.

I'd love to hear why it's a strawman; but I'd suggest reading again because if you deduced that I think that someone wants to throw out these things either I have a problem in communicating or you have a problem in comprehension. or both.

GlenRoss - Archosaur wrote: »

You're kidding, right? School is not done once. School is a 12-year exercise in doing many different things, so you can learn many different things. The various tasks we do in PW are each a separate assignment. You did arithmetic in first grade. That prepared you to do multiplication, then algebra, then trigonometry, then calculus. One time? Really? Really?

if you think that "gather ten adawolf tails" and "gather fifty tauroc chief tails" are like algebra vs trigonometry... so let's leave metaphors.

GlenRoss - Archosaur wrote: »

This is exactly what I was talking about. You think it's all about knowing where the swamp is and what each button does.

actually no. now your argument sounds like a classic strawman

GlenRoss - Archosaur wrote: »

There is a lot more technique to being a good player.

yup. hardly any technique is gained by doing 1000 bh89 vs 10 bh89 and rest with heads - in my opinion; feel free to provide arguments against it.

GlenRoss - Archosaur wrote: »

Which skills work well in combo against which creatures,

I'd say "are you serious? nothing is affected by creature type; silver doesn't hurt werewolves here" but that would be a strawman I guess. I hope however that you don't mean that you have to learn that when a creature has "immune to water" with huge gold letters under its name you shouldn't hit it with water skills. What do you mean anyway? that water path mobs cant get stunned?

GlenRoss - Archosaur wrote: »

how to coordinate your attacks with squadmates to defeat a particular boss

alright, that's better. although co-ordination is more of a communication skill between the squad. definetely helps if the bm knows that he should hf though.

GlenRoss - Archosaur wrote: »

what is the etiquette for drops and conduct and responsibilities to your squadmates in various instances.

that's instance specific knowledge and I can transfer it if I did that instance on psy to my plvled cleric

GlenRoss - Archosaur wrote: »

Every day I see people who don't know what I would consider basic information: things you can't help but know if you actually played the game.

Alas, I can't say the same. maybe it helps that I give advice instead of sneering behind their back.

GlenRoss - Archosaur wrote: »

I can see I'm never going to convince you that there is knowledge beyond your own so I'll leave you to your game. Play it the way you want. Think of this conversation but don't blame me when people climb your case and you have no idea why they're angry.

so you made a post... I replied... you replied and without even waiting my response you concluded that I'm not gonna be convinced that there is knowledge beyond my own. That's a pretty hax psychic skill you have there. Again, I ask you. Name one skill/knowledge/ability that fulfills the following:

Player A is a non-plvler
Player B is a plvler
Player A has the skill
Player B won't have the skill even if he:
1) Reads about it on the forum
2) Practises it for 1h and/or runs an instance to practise it around 10 times

you are free to say "classic strawman; this is not worth addressing any further." but don't blame me if people assume that you are an elitist that thinks that he has some special power cause he wasted more time killing mobs.

Father_gold - Sanctuary

GlenRoss - Archosaur wrote: »

This is exactly what I was talking about. You think it's all about knowing where the swamp is and what each button does. There is a lot more technique to being a good player. Which skills work well in combo against which creatures, how to coordinate your attacks with squadmates to defeat a particular boss, what is the etiquette for drops and conduct and responsibilities to your squadmates in various instances. Every day I see people who don't know what I would consider basic information: things you can't help but know if you actually played the game.

I can see I'm never going to convince you that there is knowledge beyond your own so I'll leave you to your game. Play it the way you want. Think of this conversation but don't blame me when people climb your case and you have no idea why they're angry.

but still dont make your case against ppl who plevel.

first off there is a difference between people with 100+ mains who were leveled somewhat normally in game who fcc alts to high levels, and those who joined the game and instantly think they are hot stuff so to heck with questing or understanding any of the subtext of this game.

there is not so much difference between the classes until higher levels where you NEED to do any quests (save for culti and a few bh's for fun) that a knowledgeable player would be severely lacking in skill. learning to play in squad involves understanding the roles and functions of the diff classes, i dont need to play 1-60 to know how to cleric if i understand how clerics work.

the latter group of people, are fail regardless of how much they play, they do not intend on learning, other than copying whomever they hang around with / stalk. if better players capitalize on them, GOOD!!!! cash players keep the servers up and running, free players with skill need idiots to keep cat shops running, and idiots bloat the server population, more points to score for all in NW.

because some people are complete idiots (or just dont care and **** around in game purely for the lulz), doesn't mean that a certain method of leveling is bad or party to fail~ism.

for the most part, ppl want alts to run bh100 more often each day. its the only way for free players to really subsist..... so there are going to be under-geared/underskilled toons regardless at some point in time.

btw, basequest doesn't start handing out exp until lvl 90 (or that is my experience with it, never got exp till the 90's)

Lacet - Sanctuary

In addition to the other advice you've been given, try combining normal quests with: Envoy of Justice, Authentic Works & Wanted quests. It requires doing some research and some planning for ultimate combined rewards but it's very helpful with the leveling process. All these things don't seem worth the time or effort when done separately but when you combine them, it can be really nice experience.

Good luck & Happy Gaming!
b:pleased

Chuck_smith - Sanctuary

There are so many ways to reach to 100, slow, fast, w/e without touching FC (or at least touching heads in that room), as long as you can handle the amounts, you're fine.

Hyper AOE grind (you can get coin this way too and DQ points)
PV
Morai
BH

Norala - Dreamweaver

So uh... the OP just didn't want to run FC. Why is this turning into an all-powerlevel-FC versus a no-FC-at-all debate? (hyperbole, ijs)

But I'll bite and throw in my $.02...

I'm in the 'against FC' camp. Yes, FC is quite overused, and most other content, especially lowbie is almost abandoned in favor of it. It used to be that even no-brainer grinding and quests could give you plenty of teamwork experience. To be honest, I couldn't care less about FC producing so many FC babies even if I tried. That's what factions negate anyway; more chances to avoid random squads with noobs. But when the FC fad began, the game quickly went to "powerlevel in FC as well or enjoy a deserted game". That's what I oppose.

But I've only been in FC once, and can't say that I know everything about it. And I really wouldn't want to see it gone. I personally think that removing content is never the best answer... broken/imbalanced content can be fixed. And I would prefer the game to be less about just one instance, and more about that instance in addition to the game's other content. FC is imbalanced, and we just need to find a way to encourage the player base to play other content is all.

GlenRoss - Archosaur

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

i did not imply that someone is suggesting removing FC, only that OP wants to exclude FC from his learning schedule.

Your words: "If we throw FC out of the game ..."

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

the point I was trying to make is that 10 FC runs + heads is roughtly equivalent, as fast as learning is concerned, to 300 FC runs

There was never an argument about the merits of part of FC vs all of FC. I only mentioned heads in passing and never in comparison to a full run.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I'd love to hear why it's a strawman; but I'd suggest reading again because if you deduced that I think that someone wants to throw out these things either I have a problem in communicating or you have a problem in comprehension. or both.

Your words: "If we throw FC out of the game you are left with a tremendous amount of BH/PV runs; if we throw those too you are left with an even bigger amount of grinding."

You successfully rebutted an argument no one made. That's what "strawman" means.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

if you think that "gather ten adawolf tails" and "gather fifty tauroc chief tails" are like algebra vs trigonometry... so let's leave metaphors.

Oh goody. Another teaching moment. A metaphor is not an exact match to every attribute. A metaphor is a comparison to SOME of the attributes. The metaphor of school is a good one even though it's not exactly the same as that to which it is compared. PWI also has no desks or written assignments but that too is irrelevant. But for the actual point at hand, and not one chosen out of thin air, is that school, like the PWI learning process is a multi-faceted, ongoing experience. I suspect you already knew that was my point but since you didn't have an effective answer for that point, you feigned lack of comprehension so you could seek out a tangent which you could defend. Your assertion that you go to school once was nonsense, as I pointed out. It is a cumulative process, carried out over time. That, as you already knew, was the correlation between the metaphor and the object of the metaphor. Let's dispense with the silliness, shall we. I don't perceive you as dumb so I'm pretty sure you knew you weren't offering a valid argument.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

actually no. now your argument sounds like a classic strawman

Your words: "Is it really a problem of power-leveling though? What I mean is that sure, if someone plvl'ed in FC he'll probably won't know where is the swamp of wraiths and might have missed the water/ground mechanic."

I refer you back to the actual definition of "strawman". This isn't it. I directly addressed words you said.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

yup. hardly any technique is gained by doing 1000 bh89 vs 10 bh89 and rest with heads - in my opinion; feel free to provide arguments against it.

This, on the other hand is back to the strawman. Just as a reminder, a strawman is defeating an argument that no one has proffered. Nowhere did I suggest mind-numbing repetition of a single task, let alone 1000 high-level BHs. You've again assigned me an argument that's easy for you to ridicule; an argument I didn't make. Strawman. It's dishonest.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I'd say "are you serious? nothing is affected by creature type; silver doesn't hurt werewolves here" but that would be a strawman I guess.

Perhaps if you had done the quests you'd know that water attacks are more effective against fire-based creatures and metal is devastating to wood. Oops. Missed that part of the game? Did you know there are certain attacks that, done back-to-back are more effective than when they are used separately. There are ways to skip channeling time on some attacks and some creatures suffer extra damage if you can time your attacks to coincide with your squadmates? Probably not.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I hope however that you don't mean that you have to learn that when a creature has "immune to water" with huge gold letters under its name you shouldn't hit it with water skills. What do you mean anyway? that water path mobs cant get stunned?

How can you say such a thing? You just told me that nothing is affected by creature type.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

alright, that's better. although co-ordination is more of a communication skill between the squad. definetely helps if the bm knows that he should hf though.

Your odds of him knowing are much higher if he's spent any time outside FC. Just my observation ...... over and over and over again.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

that's instance specific knowledge and I can transfer it if I did that instance on psy to my plvled cleric

Not every pleveler is a noob about the same things. Many don't have this "instance specific knowledge" and their squadmates get killed because the pleveler didn't do his part and the squad didn't know he was a pleveler.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Alas, I can't say the same. maybe it helps that I give advice instead of sneering behind their back.

That's just stupid. I'm posting on a public forum. To avoid "sneering behind their back" what is required? Do I need to hunt them down and make sure they all hear this discussion? Or are you suggesting I should shut up and not disagree with you in this public forum which is intended for just such discussions. Geez dude. Talk about sneering. Add a helping of hypocrisy. And I spend more time helping people than I spend advancing my own toon so stick to what you know. My demeanor isn't it.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

so you made a post... I replied... you replied and without even waiting my response you concluded that I'm not gonna be convinced that there is knowledge beyond my own. That's a pretty hax psychic skill you have there.

I don't have to be psychic to comment on what I've read. I think you made it pretty clear.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Again, I ask you. Name one skill/knowledge/ability that fulfills the following:

Player A is a non-plvler
Player B is a plvler
Player A has the skill
Player B won't have the skill even if he:
1) Reads about it on the forum
2) Practises it for 1h and/or runs an instance to practise it around 10 times

Of course there are ways to mitigate the shortcomings. No one has remotely suggested otherwise. But plevelers are seeking shortcuts. How many of them do you imagine shortcut the game just to go off and study to make up for what they missed? I know a few decent pleveled players. Yes, it's still sometimes noticeable, but I have no issue with running with them. If they were the rule, rather than the exception, I'd probably never mention the issue.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

you are free to say "classic strawman; this is not worth addressing any further." but don't blame me if people assume that you are an elitist that thinks that he has some special power cause he wasted more time killing mobs.

Oh boo hoo. He suggested I'm an elitist. Now I'm really sad.

A 91 blademaster came up to me a few weeks ago and asked me for help with his 59 culti. His armor was incomplete scraps that he had picked up. His skills were way low. He knew what each of them did, but used only the few that were simple and straightforward. He didn't wine the instance and kept running ahead, getting into trouble and running back to me to save him. In the course of conversation he told me that he had done only a handful of quests, but spent cash to buy FC. He died twice and got snarky with me for letting it happen. I almost walked out but my personal policy is to never leave squad until everyone gets what they came for.

Which brings up etiquette. I've fielded several complaints from people about new guild-members who get what they want and leave squad or they don't honor protocol regarding drops. Virtually every time I've had to speak to someone about this, they've turned out to be plevelers who didn't know any better, because their squad experience was lacking.

Yeah, these are my anecdotes and you can dismiss them if you wish. All I can tell you is that in most cases, plevelers are easy to spot and it's not because they're so good at what they do. Not touting myself as great, but people can tell. When you shortcut learning, people can tell.

I'm done here. Have the last word.

HrunsPanda - Archosaur

spellflingers wrote: »

I saw a lvl 85 wizard take out a rrr9 +10 recasted BM yesterday

4 pages replying to a troll who posts statements like this ?

Salari - Raging Tide

HrunsPanda - Archosaur wrote: »

4 pages replying to a troll who posts statements like this ?

f:hehe

ovenusarmanio

Guys please get back on track. This person is asking for help on leveling without the use of FC. This isn't a thread about whether or not FC is a good or bad thing.

edit: Whoops, also forgot moving this to beginner's section..

Salari - Raging Tide

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

Guys please get back on track. This person is asking for help on leveling without the use of FC. This isn't a thread about whether or not FC is a good or bad thing.

Yeah its pretty simple, grind. Grind for quests, grind in instances grind for Pv. b:surrender

In the end its all the same, just how much exp you get for your effort.

Fae_Harpy - Archosaur

I feel the need to jump into this conversation as someone who levels by questing. I do all my quests on all my characters. I have one of each class and questing helps me learn how to play them all. I've managed to level 2 characters to 90+ and 1 to 75 in less than a year and I spend hours each week farming. So it does not takes years to get to 100 if you quest as some people have suggested.

The idea that you only use a few skills when questing is by far the stupidest thing I've ever heard. The point of questing is to try out all your skills. Whenever I learn a new skill, first thing I do is grab a quest and start trying it out. I'm checking how long does it take to use, how hard does it hit, what other skills work well with it, is the skill even worth using. And by the time I'm done testing that skill out, I've killed all the mobs needed for that quest. True I could just test my skills on mobs without doing a quest, but I figure if I'm going to be killing mobs any way I might as well do a quest and get a decent reward for it.

Also questing is a great source of coin. If I have several quests back to back I can easily make over 1 mil coin in an hour just by picking up the coin, selling the mob drops and collecting the coin reward from the quest.

I think the best argument in favor of questing is the one people use against it and that is the amount of time you spend doing it. The more time you spend playing a character the better you are going to be able to use it. You will know how long your skills take and when to use them, you know when is the best time for you to use an apoth or genie. The reason you know that is because you've spent hours upon hours playing that character in different situations. I don't see how people can say questing is just doing the same thing over and over again, because when I quest I am constantly facing new things that require me to think quick on my feet. And all of that is knowledge I can use to make me a better player.

Joe - Morai

Joe - Morai wrote: »

Sry for double posting, but this post need attention:

Why do you ppl always think you need to level slow to know how to play you're char?

I would bet for everything if you would give me a high end char on any random game. Two days later I'm better then most others no matter if I havn't played that game before! Why? That's simple.

You learn your char be reading the friggin skills and try them out to get a clue how they work. Try to solo stuff, maybe die hundreds of times, try it again. See where your limits are and adapt to them.

I'm sick of this "if I level slow I will be a better player"! It doesn't matter how fast you level. If one is too lazy or braindead to get in touch with his char and act like I was stating before, then he will suck either way.

Even if you outgear most PvE Stuff. Simply search for challenges. For the AOEing chars try soloing a whole lunar area at once or run multiple PVs (8 to 12 runs) in one day. Or just pull a full pav in warsong or 2 at once if that isn't enough and solo it! and wanna know what? if you don't know how this game works and your class then you die like nothing.

Actually playing your class makes you better, thats true. But you get the best if you do stuff alone! Doing things with a squad is and will always be easy mode and doesn't enhance your abilities quite as much as doing the same things alone.

So snap out of it and actually learn how to play and leave out that slow leveling bullcrap.

Like it was forgotten. ^ That's all one need to say about this matter.

Sien - Heavens Tear

I got to 95 before Hypers were released simply by doing every quest and grinding, it's not that hard.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

Fae_Harpy - Archosaur wrote: »

The idea that you only use a few skills when questing is by far the stupidest thing I've ever heard. The point of questing is to try out all your skills. Whenever I learn a new skill, first thing I do is grab a quest and start trying it out. I'm checking how long does it take to use, how hard does it hit, what other skills work well with it, is the skill even worth using. And by the time I'm done testing that skill out, I've killed all the mobs needed for that quest. True I could just test my skills on mobs without doing a quest, but I figure if I'm going to be killing mobs any way I might as well do a quest and get a decent reward for it.

so... one quest one skill. we have like what? definetely less than 50 skills even at bms. so 50 quests. how about the rest? how about the rest of the grinding to level? if you truly learn how to play your char you will only you a few skills, the fastest/most efficient ones. and the same ones for the same mobs with the exception of the few times you'll get a incr life or aggro more than you can handle.

Runebuddyboy - Sanctuary

quests.

ShawtyStar - Raging Tide

Quests,Bounty Hunter Crazy Stoneb:victory

JigokuHibana - Sanctuary

This thread has gotten rather off topic I've noticed. However, I kind of feel like throwing my two cents in.

Those who say that the longer you play a character, the better you are; That is a total lie. It's not "How long you play it" it is " How well you LEARN it". You can learn things very quickly, if you're good at understanding and reading. You can practice skills and combinations yes, but there is a point in time where that is no longer needed because you'll be able to tell what works well together. An example would be taking note of the Monster's element, as well as looking through your skills, READING them, including the cooldowns, cast time, and channel time.

A personal example against this argument is myself. I have been playing PWI (albeit on-and-off) for nearly 5 years. I started in october of '08. I took my time leveling and such, never even payed attention to whatever this "FC" was back then. And because i was blissfully ignorant of all the high level stuff, i was totally and completely clueless when i got my assassin to 90+. I had to learn everything about working with a squad, because otherwise, i was pretty useless. There is nothing to be gained from solo leveling up to 100 other than so you can say "I spent months doing nothing but killing the same things over and over!" which is kind of what it seems the OP wants to do, oddly enough...
So anywho, time has nothing to do with being a good player. It all comes down to learning. And even that, you can do that without even being logged on. There are a few nifty things called forums, wiki, and *Gasps* Google! Youtube is also a decent place to learn about some dungeons and quests, if I'm not mistaken.

To the OP:
Yes, you gain experience with time, but that is because you're constantly learning, not because Old Man Time decided to say "Hey you've been doing This-and-That for a month now, now i will impart unobtainable knowledge to you about what you were doing". That being said, people learn at different paces, and some learn better in different atmospheres.
You will only learn so much by doing quests alone, or even the odd BH. This, like any other MMORPG, relies on teamwork at the end of the game. You can't learn teamwork without a team. Sure, you can solo up to 100, but what good is that going to do you? Are you going to know how to work with your teammates in Lunar or Warsong right off the bat? Are you going to know when to use what skills in cooperation with their skills?

ALL of that up there is the difference between a FC Baby, and someone who uses FC. FC babies don't learn anything except how to attack a Frozen Head, but people who USE FC know how to work as a team, and all that other good garbage. Just because you do FC runs, even below 80, does not mean you don't know how to do other things. I don't see what the problem is with doing FC if you learn other things first and/or along the way.

The way i see it, 99% of the people against FC have nothing against FC itself. They have issues with the people ABUSING FC (meaning selling/buying the Experience rooms to ANY player, which, as denoted by the word 'any', means both low level players and high level players) because there is nothing to gain from that except a level or ten.

Anyways, I'm going to get off forum and play a game whilst i wait for servers to come back up.

Xainou - Sanctuary

Levitate through FCC. b:cute

No seriously, anything productive concering this weird idea has already been said. lol