Problem With PWI and FC..

Nibaki - Heavens Tear

Am i the only low level who grinds everday and does BH and crazy? Everytime i see somebody in faction chat say something like "Yeah i need to powerlevel" I reply like "Why not just do bh? Crazy Stone? It's always a reply like this, "XD Hehe quests r so boring "

I just talk in fac chat/ listen to music so it just flys by for me. I do admit I did powerlevel this toon (was an alt but i dont play my other chars anymore) But i know my class, unlike almsot everybody who powerlevels. A level cap would be nice. Kinda like on RT when people are selling PLVLS/ Heads. It's normally 60-70, 70-80, or 80-90. So they're already kinda level capped. I havn't seen any levels below that. It really depends on the players selling the powerlevel. They have the power to change it to be level capped, i know a ton of QQ threads would begin if people started doing that though, lol.

tweakz

I'll give some examples of how long term players are worse than hyper noobs:

1) Lunar final boss (BH path). Some will spend the time to go behind the boss and plop themselves on the rock out of water. They have no idea way or are misinformed as to why. If the leader was to do the same: they would waste further time to go summon the vile version and return to the distant nonsensical location. If that person heals themselves with pots (doesn't waste our time healing themselves); fine, but all can be healed at the same time by a healer at the ramp or directly in front of boss. This wasteful act is a result of superstition and tradition by non hyper noobs.

2) There's a non-aoe mindset out there where some will solely attack one mob while someone else does a big pull to be AoE'd (more efficient). The cleric may get distracted by this one derp-apser and not be where they should be (with the puller). A hyper noob is more likely to see the value of AoE.

3) Even though I've been pulling full groups of mobs in BH metal before I saw anyone else do it (years ago): we still have people pulling runners first. Hyper noobs are more likely to not interfere with full group pulls (causing time wasting squad wipes).

The problem is not P-Level; it's that most of the intelligent players were put off by the idiotic aps era in this game and quit.

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

tweakz wrote: »

I'll give some examples of how long term players are worse than hyper noobs:

1) Lunar final boss (BH path). Some will spend the time to go behind the boss and plop themselves on the rock out of water. They have no idea way or are misinformed as to why. If the leader was to do the same: they would waste further time to go summon the vile version and return to the distant nonsensical location. If that person heals themselves with pots (doesn't waste our time healing themselves); fine, but all can be healed at the same time by a healer at the ramp or directly in front of boss. This wasteful act is a result of superstition and tradition by non hyper noobs.
This issue is easily resolved by using proper communication in the squad before the fight. Something many players are lacking, whether new or old.

2) There's a non-aoe mindset out there where some will solely attack one mob while someone else does a big pull to be AoE'd (more efficient). The cleric may get distracted by this one derp-apser and not be where they should be (with the puller). A hyper noob is more likely to see the value of AoE.
Hyper noobs don't typically understand AoE benefits or squad mechanics and are more likely to just APS. The cleric you describe in this situation isn't great either, new or old. Again, it's going to come down to individual skill, but older players are much more likely to have the skills, know how to use them best, and are familiar with now to behave in a squad. Noobs don't get these things because they haven't had a real chance to learn them.

3) Even though I've been pulling full groups of mobs in BH metal before I saw anyone else do it (years ago): we still have people pulling runners first. Hyper noobs are more likely to not interfere with full group pulls (causing time wasting squad wipes).
Not sure who you're running with, but the hyper noobs are almost always the BM/Sin interfering with the group pulls. Luckily they're also typically pretty stupid and aggro more than they can handle or don't stay in BB range so they die. Then the rest of us old players pick up the slack and survive.

The problem is not P-Level; it's that most of the intelligent players were put off by the idiotic aps era in this game and quit.
Not only the APS era, but by severe mismanagement of the game, and the lack of proper development. Most of them left for newer, better games that won't try to **** our pockets.
Post-APS era, it's the community that's making us leave. If 3 out of 5 people I ran into weren't complete doucebags, I would be more likely to log into here than one of the many other games I play.

Replies are in Turquoise.

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

tweakz wrote: »

The problem is not P-Level; it's that most of the intelligent players were put off by the idiotic aps era in this game and quit.

The truly intelligent players discovered APS, ijs.

The real idiots sat behind a flesh reaming barb and took 3 hours to do a TT

Silviia - Dreamweaver

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The truly intelligent players discovered APS, ijs.

The real idiots sat behind a flesh reaming barb and took 3 hours to do a TT

It did not take that much intelligence to work out what stacking interval gear could achieve, and then players copied the basic idea without much further thought than: More Attacks Per Second = fast kill, more money, go me.

No squad took 3 hours back in the day if they knew what they were doing and were actually geared. With skill use, the application of amps and debuffs bosses took a lot less than the exaggerations people throw around to justify APS.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

Despite my distaste for others assuming that everyone who fc's an alt automatically makes them a noob on the new character, I can see their point 95%+ of people who decide to use this method are complete and utter fools on their new characters. In my opinion that is when it comes down to the person behind the character instead of how they leveled up their characters.

While I may not be the best skills on all of my chars (some of which I have hypered) I have never been called a 'hyper-noob'... I think the reason for this is due to the fact I don't make complete idiotic moves that make me look like I am noobish, granted on some of the characters that I haven't played much and hypered, it does take me at least a run or 2 to figure out a decent combo to use, but still I play each of my characters with a certain... finesse in a way I don't generally cause a squad wipe. Still I do understand squads can be very frustrating if one person isn't doing their 'job' as well as they arguably could be.

In other words be smart, hang back until you learn the limits of your character, don't just rush in assuming others will be able to save your squishy ***.

Anyways I have digressed enough, I would indeed love to see a level cap on the instance, I do indeed miss the days where people would actually do stuff in the lower level range. (I still would love to see the coins come back to rebirths... but alas that is a discussion for another thread, and sadly it doesn't sound like they have any plans on putting it back .)

EDIT: still I do feel that there is a lot of things that need to be revamped to truly allow things to become truly as active as it once was, I.e, a lot of lvl 100 toons, can clear lower level bhs with ease, which would just replace the 'hyper-noob' phase at least to an small extent.

mrqwertyty

If they didn't put a lvl cap until now, they will not put one in the future. The answer to "why?" it's simple: it is an old game and, like everything in this world, is heading towards death. At this maturity level, they can only develop the endgame, for the simple fact that no new players are coming anymore. There are a lot of new games with better graphics and all the stuff that attract the game players of this world. Therefore, there is no reason to develop more the low level game.

One of the goals of many players in this game is to have as many high lvl characters as possible. As a result, pwi needs people (I mean the alts of existing players) to get to high lvl as fast as possible and start spending real money for pvp fun.

It has to be acknowledged, that this is a company, a business, a source of money for some people. They need to adopt strategies to earn money and I am pretty sure that they know what they are doing, since this game is still alive for so many years.

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

Silviia - Dreamweaver wrote: »

It did not take that much intelligence to work out what stacking interval gear could achieve, and then players copied the basic idea without much further thought than: More Attacks Per Second = fast kill, more money, go me.

No squad took 3 hours back in the day if they knew what they were doing and were actually geared. With skill use, the application of amps and debuffs bosses took a lot less than the exaggerations people throw around to justify APS.

Remember when BMs had 60 dex and vit like a barb and fist BMs were laughed at?

Yea it took a lot of effort to break the zomg full vit axe mindset

Everyone who copied it saw the change coming and evolved. No ty; not staying with a less efficient method.

The higher geared sins that know what they're doing can clear 3-1 in a bit over 10 minutes so can't really see how a non-aps squad can match that.

CapnK - Sanctuary

tweakz wrote: »

I'll give some examples of how long term players are worse than hyper noobs:

1) Lunar final boss (BH path). Some will spend the time to go behind the boss and plop themselves on the rock out of water. They have no idea way or are misinformed as to why. If the leader was to do the same: they would waste further time to go summon the vile version and return to the distant nonsensical location. If that person heals themselves with pots (doesn't waste our time healing themselves); fine, but all can be healed at the same time by a healer at the ramp or directly in front of boss. This wasteful act is a result of superstition and tradition by non hyper noobs.

The rock is not a superstition, it's the easiest place to get everyone's positioning right. The ranged DDs stay on the rock, the melees go to the boss, and the cleric walks straight forward off the edge of the rock and is in the perfect position to hit everyone with BB.

If you can get everyone in the right spot from the ramp, great. More power to you. But I've seen too many times when a cleric doesn't BB close enough to cover the melees that it's just easier to use the rock method and get it right the first time.

tweakz

The rock is not a superstition, it's the easiest place to get everyone's positioning right. The ranged DDs stay on the rock, the melees go to the boss, and the cleric walks straight forward off the edge of the rock and is in the perfect position to hit everyone with BB.

If you can get everyone in the right spot from the ramp, great. More power to you. But I've seen too many times when a cleric doesn't BB close enough to cover the melees that it's just easier to use the rock method and get it right the first time.

Forgot to mention all range dd squad. -my bad.

I've seen many successful runs with melee where we just go straight at it. Regenration Aura reaches the wall and melee in that setup every time.

GlenRoss - Archosaur

tweakz wrote: »

I'll give some examples of how long term players are worse than hyper noobs:

1) Lunar final boss (BH path). Some will spend the time to go behind the boss and plop themselves on the rock out of water. They have no idea way or are misinformed as to why. If the leader was to do the same: they would waste further time to go summon the vile version and return to the distant nonsensical location. If that person heals themselves with pots (doesn't waste our time healing themselves); fine, but all can be healed at the same time by a healer at the ramp or directly in front of boss. This wasteful act is a result of superstition and tradition by non hyper noobs.

2) There's a non-aoe mindset out there where some will solely attack one mob while someone else does a big pull to be AoE'd (more efficient). The cleric may get distracted by this one derp-apser and not be where they should be (with the puller). A hyper noob is more likely to see the value of AoE.

3) Even though I've been pulling full groups of mobs in BH metal before I saw anyone else do it (years ago): we still have people pulling runners first. Hyper noobs are more likely to not interfere with full group pulls (causing time wasting squad wipes).

The problem is not P-Level; it's that most of the intelligent players were put off by the idiotic aps era in this game and quit.

Most of this is nonsensical anecdotes. These are not trends belonging to long-term players, nor is there any evidence (except for your say-so) that hyper-noobs do any of this differently or better.

Plevel IS the problem and flailing about with obtuse observations of your preferred behaviors won't obscure that. If you skip growing up, you shortchange yourself of valuable experience and often (not always but often) end up being a liability. Saying otherwise is like dropping out of school after 3rd grade. Yes, you'll grow up to be an adult, but chances are great that your ability to succeed and function in society will be diminished.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

GlenRoss - Archosaur wrote: »

Most of this is nonsensical anecdotes. These are not trends belonging to long-term players, nor is there any evidence (except for your say-so) that hyper-noobs do any of this differently or better.

Plevel IS the problem and flailing about with obtuse observations of your preferred behaviors won't obscure that. If you skip growing up, you shortchange yourself of valuable experience and often (not always but often) end up being a liability. Saying otherwise is like dropping out of school after 3rd grade. Yes, you'll grow up to be an adult, but chances are great that your ability to succeed and function in society will be diminished.

FCC is fine

Hypers are fine

FCC being changed so that bosses give mediocre exp and mobs past exp room give bad exp + the advent of exp room selling (aka skipping the entirety of fcc) is not

FCC has no effect on endgame content however the trend of "man just buy FCC till your 100" kills off interactive low level play entirely.

An incentive to full fcc in a squad would do more to encourage squad play than removal of hypers. Who am I kidding though? People in this game will do anything they can to avoid actually playing the game.