PVE or PVP

Hunt - Raging Tide

Hi! i dont know any great APS barbs,so maybe i'll find them at forum. i got full t2 gear and i'm allways wanted to be APS,because they're rare,they can make decend money and...girls
So my question is- whats better,APS or t3. maybe some cons and pros because old APS thread are maybe a little outdated.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

For PvE, there really is no reason not to go aps. We can still be 40k hp barbs at endgame, but have more versatility and more use. Most PvE content is geared for about a 15k barb and that's pretty easy to get, even with all aps gear. Sure, you have haters above me that think barbs should be 1 dimensional and vit only and watch as other people tank but most players are smarter than that.

For PvP its a toss up. Aps is really kind of a one trick pony for PvP and doesn't offer much. Landing a stun with Mighty Swing and switching to aps will take out many opponents and will do alot more dd than even r9t3 axes, and can be chained with Occult Ice. However, casters now have purify proc so no one, not even sins, will aps them. So that basically removes 5 classes where aps is useful in pvp.

Really, a pure strength build is going to be better for 1v1 or a vit build for group pvp. If you do go aps build you wont be that crippled in pvp, you just will almost never use your claws. You'll have higher crit and higher accuracy, which is very important. Even in PvE you'll be in tiger form 90% of the time for the pulls and aoeing, but on the bosses you'll swap to claws. Whats beautiful about aps barbs is you'll be able to keep aggro off of most players (assuming equal or better gear), you'll have constant chi, you get about 5x the amount of heals from bloodpaint so you have no problem surviving, and you can invoke/sunder whenever you want.

Drawbacks is you have to be alot more active with your gameplay. Most vit/str barbs rarely use more than FR, Devour, Bestial Rage, and invoke. Aps Barb involves constantly swaping to and from tiger form depending on the situation. It also involves hotkeying gear swaps for better defenses or for aps gear.

slamstone

aps barb in pvp sucks...simple fact: you limit yourself to aps gear, therefore u will be undergeared all the time (and the facts mentioned above). aps gear does **** dmg on recasted gear and gets pawned by it so dream on Sakubatou.

in pve the only instance worth apsing is TT, the rest left vit/str barb rules (as for accuracy, don't forget u have bloodbath, 50% rings and amber gems).


Since nw now most of the 100+ players can farm TT....guess what that'll do to TT as a farming instance.

if u want to go aps roll a sin/bm not a imitation barb/archer.

_Mg_Zr - Harshlands

slamstone wrote: »

aps barb in pvp sucks...simple fact: you limit yourself to aps gear, therefore u will be undergeared all the time (and the facts mentioned above). aps gear does **** dmg on recasted gear and gets pawned by it so dream on Sakubatou.

in pve the only instance worth apsing is TT, the rest left vit/str barb rules (as for accuracy, don't forget u have bloodbath, 50% rings and amber gems).


Since nw now most of the 100+ players can farm TT....guess what that'll do to TT as a farming instance.

if u want to go aps roll a sin/bm not a imitation barb/archer.

Hmmm no. Defensively barbs are the strongest aps class. (providing you have -0.1 on your wep) barbs can wear 4 pieces of r9rr and remain 5 aps if you get triple int on your wep then grats you can have full r9rr set bonus and a cube necklace and remain at 5 aps.

Haila - Sanctuary

Since i only have one friend left ingame (all has quitted) and faction is almost dead, i just wanted to share my achievements here. I think a main part what keeps u playing is when u can talk about goals u have reached XD.
I think this a good thread to post this b:chuckle

Ok so i had this about 1 year ago
http://pwcalc.com/bb6cc708a47d2339

Just before nw expansion i upgraded myself with g16 fists and r8 chest piece (showing old axe tho)
http://pwcalc.com/224435beb05c0be3

When nw expansion came out i decided to go r9 and see how long it will take farming it
I used seeker for in nw to get raps and uncs, stopped doing nw after collecting enough for summerwind tokens b:chuckle
So i got r9 ring + r999 weapon after the 2x marathon end of last year think it was about 5-6 weeks.
And i got this 2-3 months ago or so:
http://pwcalc.com/b70d63c276e1fd58

And after 6 months i have my full R999 b:victory:
http://pwcalc.com/c581714a47b4f9ac

On topic: Yes aps barbs can make decent money b:pleased

slamstone

Haila - Sanctuary wrote: »

I used seeker for in nw to get raps and uncs, stopped doing nw after collecting enough for summerwind tokens b:chuckle

Defensively barbs are the strongest aps class

- you did aps to have more defenses? b:beatup and i thought aps gearing is just for evasion against magic attacks ...damn it!


nuff sayd

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

slamstone wrote: »

- you did aps to have more defenses? b:beatup and i thought aps gearing is just for evasion against magic attacks ...damn it!


nuff sayd

Defensively barbs are the strongest aps class
=/=
Defensively, aps barbs are the strongest barb setup

btw I'd love to see how non aps classes farm TT efficiently

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

This is my endgame aps barb. It can be upgraded further with NW but that is my personal goal. As I said, not the ultimate in pvp but still extremely formidable.

Not sure if slamstone is trolling from a posting alt or has ever played an aps character but to become a full r9t3 strength axe barb with a 34% crit rate all you need to do is swap chest and claws on hotkeys. Takes about .2 seconds. (Okay, a 550 str barb with 200 dex isn't technicaly full strength but close enough). My point is that aps gear is not static, you can swap it at will almost instantaneously, usually during the cast animation of another skill.

On my BM I'll still regularly swap to aps to take down a high hp opponent. I have G16 axes and G16 claws and the claws do alot more damage unless I'm lucky enough to have about an 80% GoF rate. BMs have a few advantages though. We can cyclone to go 4 aps without using chi/genie, and we can stunlock our opponent so that even in weaker gear we don't have to worry about being hit. as much. If my opponent does break the stunlock I can usually swap back to r9t3 before he attacks me.

A barb has the major advantage of being able to use 4 pieces of r9t3 and still be 3.33 aps, though. So much less gear swapping, and as Mg_Zr pointed out barbs have the highest defenses while apsing. Including the 4 piece set bonus of +25 def levels. A fun combo would be aps to about 55% hp then swap to 5 pieces (+30 atk levels) and axes and Arma. The smaller increments of claw damage would allow you to set up charm bipass points. Barbs also have an easier time placing pdef debuffs and frighten/muddle on their opponents prior to switching to aps.

Btw, sin and archers now often have 650+ dex at endgame. Archers also have Wings of Protection evasion buffs, and Sins have Focused Mind so at best you're landing about 50% of your attacks. A vit barb, with Blood Bath, accuracy shards, accuracy rings... will still have less accuracy then an aps barb. BB and accuracy rings are great but multiplying almost nothing by 50% is still almost nothing.

Btw, once you hit a certain amount of survivability in PvE on an aps barb you will survive better than any vit barb. A cleric with an r8 weapon will put around 1400-1800hp per second back on a barb once they have a full stack (5 IHs simultaneously). or about 4500 hp per IH stack "tick". On the other hand an aps barb can get 2-4 times that amount from paint heals alone. In otherwords the aps barb is getting 4x the amount of heals a vit barb gets, sparking for 30% hp on a 20k barb, and has 3 seconds damage immunity out of every 18 seconds so can chose to resist most of a bosses harder attacks.

So I stick with my original stance. In PvE there is no reason not to go aps on a 99+ barb, as it is the better option. In PvP its not the best option, but its not as crippling as most people think. Vit barbs for flag carrying/cata pulling and strength barbs for 1v1ing are probably the best options.

Haila - Sanctuary

slamstone wrote: »

aps barb in pvp sucks...simple fact: you limit yourself to aps gear, therefore u will be undergeared all the time (and the facts mentioned above). aps gear does **** dmg on recasted gear and gets pawned by it so dream on Sakubatou.
If facing a r9 recast you will be undergeared in t3 nirvana also
and if facing t3 nirvana you will not get powned easily

in pve the only instance worth apsing is TT, the rest left vit/str barb rules (as for accuracy, don't forget u have bloodbath, 50% rings and amber gems).
The rest is....? I dont know any instance where I'm getting ruled by vit/str barbs lol

Since nw now most of the 100+ players can farm TT....guess what that'll do to TT as a farming instance.
All 100+ could farm TT before nw also lol.....

if u want to go aps roll a sin/bm not a imitation barb/archer.
I dont see any benefits in rolling a bm maybe for demon hf that costs 80m ish lol

At first I didn't want to comment on this post, i just do it after you quoted me using seeker in nw. Reason why i use seeker is simple, i see nw as an instance for farming supply tokens and my seeker performs better, a barb is only there as cannon fodder lol.

_Mg_Zr - Harshlands

http://pwcalc.com/406e219fd2cefce5 That is what i am aiming for on my barb. Now pls tell me how that build is squishy in anyway.

And in pvp aps is definitly useful, i use it to build chi and drain opponents to 50% health then i go for the kill. Or if i am fighting someone who is insanely tanky, then i often aps them to death. (imo nothing is more fun than a barb sparking you with axes while you spark and use claws)

(Posted from my mobile so the pw calc isnt accurate but you guys get the gist of it)

Jaabg - Sanctuary

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

btw I'd love to see how non aps classes farm TW efficiently

I keep on trying to dig that big crystal on the map. People keep on hitting me though, they never let me dig in peace in tw b:angry.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

Jaabg - Sanctuary wrote: »

I keep on trying to dig that big crystal on the map. People keep on hitting me though, they never let me dig in peace in tw b:angry.

lolb:laugh
fixed the typo

slamstone

Haila - Sanctuary wrote: »

all that.

If facing a r9 recast you will be undergeared in t3 nirvana also
True...but aps doesn't mean just gear...it means a good chunk of dex that is missing from vit/str that ads alot in survivability/real dmg

and if facing t3 nirvana you will not get powned easily
that is why all aps (maybe expect sins) are a nice juicy stakes for anyone in pvp?

The rest is....? I dont know any instance where I'm getting ruled by vit/str barbs lol

any instance with mobs ...AEU, LG, GV u name it...if you don't know that yet...im sorry 4 u

All 100+ could farm TT before nw also lol.....

yup...all had the necessary gear to farm every instance from 1-1 to 3-3...so true....not

I dont see any benefits in rolling a bm maybe for demon hf that costs 80m ish lol
**** fist mastery...and the multiplying effect to base dmg....thats for suckers


i see nw as an instance for farming supply tokens and my seeker performs better, a barb is only there as cannon fodder lol.

i wonder why....see above pvp remarks...and btw with my cannon fodder i rarelly go bellow 150 tokens and a medium is 220+...yup we barbs do **** tokens in nw

"Not sure if slamstone is trolling from a posting alt or has ever played an aps character but to become a full r9t3 strength axe barb with a 34% crit rate all you need to do is swap chest and claws on hotkeys."
go powerpuff go....dont use strength axe barb with claws in same sentence if just doesn't fit.

actually don't stop..keep teaching....i love dps dealers in nw

Linc - Raging Tide

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Sure, you have haters above me that think barbs should be 1 dimensional and vit only and watch as other people tank but most players are smarter than that.


Drawbacks is you have to be alot more active with your gameplay. Most vit/str barbs rarely use more than FR, Devour, Bestial Rage, and invoke.

I don't get it, I thought PWI tried to fix the barb aggro mechanic with the Stomp of the King skill. It may be my level or my gear, idk which, but since I got the SotK skill, rarely anyone takes the agg from me. Wish I could squad with you and challenge you for that, but looks like we on diff servers.

Also I tend to run through the entire repertoire of skillset on my barb, but maybe I don't fit into your "FR, Devour, Bestial Rage, and invoke" barb category. GL with your deal though, Like I always say -- "Play the game you like and you don't have to fit into someone's cookiecutter vision of a class." On the same token, try to stick with the facts and avoid generalities like the above of which I quote.

b:bored

Haila - Sanctuary

slamstone wrote: »

......

any instance with mobs ...AEU, LG, GV u name it...if you don't know that yet...im sorry 4 u
barb is not even needed for these lol, for buffs every barb is the same

**** fist mastery...and the multiplying effect to base dmg....thats for suckers
Your advice rolling a bm is just weird, you already said aps gear sucks so it doesn't suck on bm ? Fist mastery will make it good hahaha
My bm on same account can never match my farming speed and DD power btw no matter how many coins i pump in her.

i wonder why....see above pvp remarks...and btw with my cannon fodder i rarelly go bellow 150 tokens and a medium is 220+...yup we barbs do **** tokens in nw
I only know my seeker in g15 armors and g16 weap performs better than better geared barbs in my squad, yes barbs do **** tokens in nw compared to seekers lol

You just hate aps barbs thats all thinking one build is the only possible way.
Op is asking for opinions of aps barbs all you wanna do is bash those comments.

Master_Ghoul - Lost City

Haila - Sanctuary wrote: »

You just hate aps barbs thats all thinking one build is the only possible way.
Op is asking for opinions of aps barbs all you wanna do is bash those comments.

barb dont win with pking ppl in nw but tanking or soaking damage


heck even seen low geared barbs get tokens unless the side they are in have so few tokens for all.

also for your lil brain to understand barb was never meant to be a dd we was support and the main tank wish is why we got sotk.

we have no skill wish give us 100-200-300-400% damage like most real dds can you think why that is THINK THINK THINK.

barb can even get tokens with hh90 full vit i dont think ur seeker can tho

seeker is just a wanabe tank and always will be

as for the aps in pvp i would love for every class to get purify on there class or weapon then you can qq more

let aps be just pve where it belongs

Haila - Sanctuary

Master_Ghoul - Lost City wrote: »

you fail aps b:bye

I guess you want to say all aps barbs fails compared to vit barbs. My view is full vit barbs are only better for buffs if sage XD, ok better catapullers also.
And I make roughly 10 times more coins compared to vit barbs b:avoid

Chuck_smith - Sanctuary

_Mg_Zr - Harshlands wrote: »

http://pwcalc.com/406e219fd2cefce5 That is what i am aiming for on my barb. Now pls tell me how that build is squishy in anyway.

And in pvp aps is definitly useful, i use it to build chi and drain opponents to 50% health then i go for the kill. Or if i am fighting someone who is insanely tanky, then i often aps them to death. (imo nothing is more fun than a barb sparking you with axes while you spark and use claws)

(Posted from my mobile so the pw calc isnt accurate but you guys get the gist of it)

Low magic defense FTL.

Also, PVP with APS is only useful for people using gear that have DEF under 3k or something, along with low HP and/or really stupid. You can't beat anyone who is insanely tanky if they are not completely tarded, a simple tanky barb would just stun you then perdition, BO (oh and occult ice). You can't APS him well if his mighty swing usually connects stun on you, on top of that. He can just jump disrupting your APS, wasting your spark. It is a stale tactic even on casters with purify spell. Also, NW and TW is the main PVP which means, you need to target more than 1 player most of the time.

Master_Ghoul - Lost City wrote: »

barb dont win with pking ppl in nw but tanking or soaking damage

heck even seen low geared barbs get tokens unless the side they are in have so few tokens for all.

also for your lil brain to understand barb was never meant to be a dd we was support and the main tank wish is why we got sotk.

we have no skill wish give us 100-200-300-400% damage like most real dds can you think why that is THINK THINK THINK.

barb can even get tokens with hh90 full vit i dont think ur seeker can tho

seeker is just a wanabe tank and always will be

as for the aps in pvp i would love for every class to get purify on there class or weapon then you can qq more

let aps be just pve where it belongs

Class does not mean you do this/that role only, you have no idea how to improvise I see... I would agree that APS isn't even too effective anymore because of the single targets are now multiple targets. So APS on a barb and archer would only be laughable because no one farms nirvana anymore (at least I think so).

Barbs don't have skills that gives them 100%, 200% and 300% damage upon skill? Really? Wrong. Also there is another boost buff that gives barbs 20% per hit (morai skill) So you're saying nonsense here.

Seekers are wannabe tanks? Lol... TBH, seekers can tank better than barbs in some circumstances (remember bosses that debuff you?) Research seekers before you comment on them please.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Linc - Raging Tide wrote: »

I don't get it, I thought PWI tried to fix the barb aggro mechanic with the Stomp of the King skill. It may be my level or my gear, idk which, but since I got the SotK skill, rarely anyone takes the agg from me. Wish I could squad with you and challenge you for that, but looks like we on diff servers.

Also I tend to run through the entire repertoire of skillset on my barb, but maybe I don't fit into your "FR, Devour, Bestial Rage, and invoke" barb category. GL with your deal though, Like I always say -- "Play the game you like and you don't have to fit into someone's cookiecutter vision of a class." On the same token, try to stick with the facts and avoid generalities like the above of which I quote.

b:bored

We've estimated that Stomp of the King adds around 200k aggro, which is awesome. For most mobs thats enough to keep aggro the entire time, especially when you add a sunder+surf and other aggro in you are looking at 400k aggro and the mob will die before any single dd gets over 400k damage.

However on bosses 200k is hardly anything when comparing to aps aggro, still. On a [?] boss thats about 2 seconds of apsing when the boss is not amped. Its a second when they're debuffed.

And I'm trying to avoid generalities but at the same time the class is limited by its design. FR, Devour, Penetrate Armor, Untamed Wrath, Roar, and SotK are your aggro skills, beyond that you're resorting to dd and lets be honest, aps is about 4-6 times more effective in a single spark and has about 12-15 times the damage output once spark dies on the axe barb. So we fall back on our aggro skills. Roar resets aggro so has its key times to use, but is relatively weak. Untamed Wrath is a human form and has somewhat weak aggro although its good enough for mobs in an aoe situation. PA is human form and is a damage based aggro mechanic and that won't compare to an aps barb. That leaves SotK, FR, and Devour.

Devour gets debated periodically on whether it is effective or not. PWI just changed its aggro mechanics too. It now increases aggro based on vit, but its minor and the difference between a vit barb and an aps barb is about 10-20% hp. So when you're talking about 10-20% more of a skill that gives about 20-30k aggro, you're look at an 2-6k aggro, lol. Again, almost nothing. On the other hand and aps barb can have over 200k dps and a 50% debuff is around 32% more damage so 66k more aggro per second. If you Devour for a sin you're looking at giving him waaaaay more aggro than you gain. In otherwords, the person gaining the most from PA or Devour are your aps chars. As an aps barb I open with Devour then PA after each spark and it boosts my dps somewhere near a consistant 260k.

So we're down to FR spam and SotK. SotK is great for mobs and decent for bosses but it needs to be timed right, and will be no more effective than a FR in a squad with good dd's or good debuffs. It also has a generally long cast (3 seconds) and a 20 second cd. Which resorts you to FR spam the rest of the time. Sure you can Frighten, but it does little for aggro. Just helps the sins tank. Alacrity canceling is always helpful but most squads wont need it and again, it does nothing for aggro.

My point is I generalized because classes are limited by their skill trees, and ours is pretty limiting. There are standard ways for pulling and standard ways for tanking a boss. An aps barb will have plenty of hp to pull and better damage output to keep aggro, and an aps barb will have plenty of hp to tank bosses and should keep aggro on bosses while also providing speed and efficiency to the run.

Another nice thing about aps barbs is there is rarely any question on who is tanking. Either you out dd the bm/sin or you don't and the cleric heals the highest dd. If you FR you will probably grab aggro for 1 second then the sin for 3 seconds and so the cleric has to give half the heals to 2 tanks.

Ghoul-> huh? Something about aps hate with no valid argument, ever.
Yulk-> how is 8k mdef, 31k pdef (with only G15 neck) and 83 def levels squishy? You've admited you haven't really played the game in over 2 years and even then I think your highest char was level 54 or something but you keep having unfounded opinions you pull out of no where.

Chuck_smith - Sanctuary

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

.
how is 8k mdef,

Stopped reading there sorry, apparently you didn't even look at his base M.DEF...

Metal: 5310 Wood: 5310 Water: 5310 Fire: 5310 Earth: 5310

Learn how to read please...

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

1. It's 8K with a level 10 cleric buff. Learn to click two buttons

2. The build is using a HA Cube neck, which can easily be swapped for an AA one since it really doesn't have anything to do with APS

There, happy?

buffed and you're looking at almost 10K mdef.

*Takes deep breath*

Did you know that you can keep two separate sets of gear?!?!

That is so amazing! You clearly have NEVER HEARD of the new and inspirational concept of GEAR SWAPPING (maybe mashing your face on flesh ream hotkey (you do use full hotkey bar right?) made you ignore the BMs juggling around 4 weapons next to you)!

That barb posted, without claws:

http://pwcalc.com/0064edd640836a95

Who's the good kitty with 30K tiger, 8.3K accuracy with O bloodbath, 33% base crit, that can actually be useful in a boss fight besides devouring?

Not the buff monkey that sold Nirvana keys!

Alright; which APS barb here seriously talked about running around with claws on all the time, pvping with them? Which APS barb here isn't APS for PVE single target only? Raise your hand!

*silence*

Here; in addition to the idea of keeping a few pieces to swap around (not even a separate set if your barb is r9), I will teach you another word: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/adapting

Did you know that when things change you don't have to stay with the old way of doing things? *le gaspe* Did you know that you don't have to be one of these?

There

an illustrated argument

easier to understand?

EDIT:

Chuck_smith - Sanctuary wrote: »

Class does not mean you do this/that role only, you have no idea how to improvise I see... I would agree that APS isn't even too effective anymore because of the single targets are now multiple targets. So APS on a barb and archer would only be laughable because no one farms nirvana anymore (at least I think so).

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQV5ljS2BHIWxLJEpyW3vxSrb-l_wag38Hg28RQXap_3HQTqNAw

slamstone

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Did you know that when things change you don't have to stay with the old way of doing things?

it is funny hearing that from an aps defender. yes things change:
- you don't have your beloved Nirvana to back up farming
- the best farming instance atm is a PVP instance (which by all means no space for aps dmg)
- AEU, GV, PV, LG, WS are mass dmg instances (maybe frenzy mode in witch barb is a small pieces of the puzzle)
- not to mention TW where you'll basically be ignored by anyone once they hear your aps build (at least str barbs are now begining to be feared)
- some BH bosses have reduced HP and antiaps buff (so dps over multiple sparks doesnt count anymore)

yup the things changed...

- 5k or 6k mdef unbuffed (these days a purge is pretty easy to receive) is low for a r9rr build (i have 9.3k unbuffed with might rings and necklace is at +6...can u beat that? )... accuracy with bloodbath is at 4.6k, crit goes to 25% (no extra buffs and thats on sage..on demon it goes higher).

- that 30k hp buffed tiger form i have in human form (and no my gear is not +11 and i still have most flawless b:shocked)

- that 22k phi def (unbuffed) is 26k and the might ring has only +3 (and no i dont have a phi res robe or necklace)

- i can solo with my vit barb both aba and sot bosses in 1-4 sparks (depends on how lucky i get with spike dmg) and a well timed blood rush (with bp ofc) can u do that? (i don't even wanna know how fast it drops to a str barb)
(and this is just one example)


but no worries theres allways room in tt for aps barbs (even thought with a sin or bm you be faster...)


u adapted!!!! after tideborn expansion some made sins/bms besides barb to make coins to gear up barb...and some....well some made aps barbs b:chuckle

about gear swapping i admit it is fast...i do it all the time between r8 and r9 axes...but when u go tiger/human/tiger/human all the time its not that fast as in other classes (moreover when besides wep u change also blessing and rings b:surrender)...but who cares when your beloved barb has an all time no brain macro aps on hotkey...and you dare talk about the rest as in "mashing your face on flesh ream hotkey"

P.S. im not trying to bash the aps barbs before imperial fury...those did what needed to be done in their own style and some did fairly well...but to actually say that this build is sustainable in current enviroment.....well u get the picture from above.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

slamstone wrote: »

it is funny hearing that from an aps defender. yes things change:
- you don't have your beloved Nirvana to back up farming
I still Nirvana occasionaly, lol. It was just one instance, but it was the favorite place for barbs/casters to QQ about.
- the best farming instance atm is a PVP instance (which by all means no space for aps dmg)
Ugh, its still profitable for you guys? I pull down about 13000 contribution and it usually just barely pays for my charm and apoths now that cannies are 14k and raps are 65k. It was the best farming instance for a few months but not anymore.
- AEU, GV, PV, LG, WS are mass dmg instances (maybe frenzy mode in witch barb is a small pieces of the puzzle)
AEU has 3 route, each with at least 2 bosses and zero pulls. Barbs are there for buffs, lol, least an aps barb can contribute DD. Delta (not playing Malaysian version) has 11 bosses and pulls are super easy as long as you have 12k hp in barb form -.- I assume LG is Lunar (Lunar Glade). Pulls make up about 1/3 of the run time and then 6 bosses. Even better is do an IG run and bring an aps barb for zero pulls and 8 minute Lunars. PV is definitely pullable on an aps barb, the important thing is having the damage to kill them mobs before invoke wears off and guess what, aps barbs do! Warson. Honestly, the best pullars I've seen for WS lately are clerics with r9t3 weapons but i prefer to do on my BM (mag marrow and anti-stun). Barbs do a lousy job of keeping aggro in the group pulls anyways because of seals, interupts, freezes away from the mobs, purple bubbles... Pulls also take less than 1 minute each, then you have 12 bosses. If you're not catching the common theme, I'm suggesting vit/str barbs excell at pulls and aps barbs excell at bosses, and I'm pointing out that every pull can still be done by an aps barbs and that as DD gets better pulls become faster and faster leaving just the multitude of bosses to deal with.
- some BH bosses have reduced HP and antiaps buff (so dps over multiple sparks doesnt count anymore)
Use tiger form/axe. This doesn't hurt aps barbs as much as it hurts other DDs. We swap to axes and use our aggro skills like every other barb. 1 Seat boss, WS final boss mobs (not boss), and Yanzi (Panda form boss) really aren't enough game content to base a build on. Aba boss isn't anti-aps if you kill him fast enough. And he's anti attack for everything, skills included, just depends on how often he's hit. Aps chars stop attacking just like others chars if the boss gets to that point.
- i can solo with my vit barb both aba and sot bosses in 1-4 sparks (depends on how lucky i get with spike dmg) and a well timed blood rush (with bp ofc) can u do that? (i don't even wanna know how fast it drops to a str barb)
Umm, yah? Quite easily, ty. Except it takes only 2 sparks to do Aba boss. Seats a bit harder to solo because he starts healing himself and with low axe dd it can take forever.
about gear swapping i admit it is fast...i do it all the time between r8 and r9 axes...but when u go tiger/human/tiger/human all the time its not that fast
Instant skills aren't fast? Tiger form is instant and they reduced the cooldown to 2 seconds. Never been a problem for me.

Responses in red. Again, I stick to my initial point that aps barb is better for PvE, Str barb is better for PvP, and Vit barbs are better cata puller. omgggurd Vana is dead. There is still 99% of the game content that aps either excell at or are good enough to do in PvE. As I pointed out you need about tt99 and 14k hp for any PvE content and you'll get double that with any build you pick so you may as well pick the build with other benefits, too.

We were trying to figure the multiplier for vitality in another thread and it looks like it takes 1500 vit to give 100% gear defense. Extremely small returns. And a strength barbs should have no more mdef than an aps barb.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

Better question...

Why do barbs seem to think aoe pulling is about their HP instead of the DD's damage?

slamstone

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

All that

meh im gonna just sit back and enjoy...i sayd my points...who wants to read and understand may do so.

but since i liked your last post ill put one more.

"Ugh, its still profitable for you guys? " well this im on hl so...i get arround 16-19k contribution and the raps are at 130-140k (and thats the low price...it spikes after 2x usually) so yeah it's still the most profitable. since my gameplay uses pots in mostly everything i do...some extra ones during nw (and here are almost free) don't add up too much to the costs....and with charms ...meh it depends i can go from 350k hp to 1.4m hp in one sesion...depends on the difficulty i stumble upon.

about the rest...meh....i'll just say this: if you want to play at minimum requirements PVE and lousy at pvp go aps or whatever....if u want to do full lunar pushes with 1-1.5m arma crits, be the dd and the puller in gv (and still have time for a smoke)...take another build.

...being on vit doesnt mean its only pulling...its hitting the arma b1sh at the end of the pull (or a str spike dd at the end of the pull). aeu: really? no mobs to aoe dd? then i must be getting rusty and imagining mobs (and those 250-360k crits on those low hp bosses).

i wasn't talking only about the easyness of swapping...i was talking about doing the -35% +35% unable to switch in tiger form mumbo jumbo compared to the swapping of the other classes.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

slamstone wrote: »

meh im gonna just sit back and enjoy...i sayd my points...who wants to read and understand may do so.

but since i liked your last post ill put one more.

"Ugh, its still profitable for you guys? " well this im on hl so...i get arround 16-19k contribution and the raps are at 130-140k (and thats the low price...it spikes after 2x usually) so yeah it's still the most profitable. since my gameplay uses pots in mostly everything i do...some extra ones during nw (and here are almost free) don't add up too much to the costs....and with charms ...meh it depends i can go from 350k hp to 1.4m hp in one sesion...depends on the difficulty i stumble upon.

about the rest...meh....i'll just say this: if you want to play at minimum requirements PVE and lousy at pvp go aps or whatever....if u want to do full lunar pushes with 1-1.5m arma crits, be the dd and the puller in gv (and still have time for a smoke)...take another build.

...being on vit doesnt mean its only pulling...its hitting the arma b1sh at the end of the pull (or a str spike dd at the end of the pull). aeu: really? no mobs to aoe dd? then i must be getting rusty and imagining mobs (and those 250-360k crits on those low hp bosses).

i wasn't talking only about the easyness of swapping...i was talking about doing the -35% +35% unable to switch in tiger form mumbo jumbo compared to the swapping of the other classes.

lol at pulling gv... don't you just love barbs that take the mobs far away and waste time when the squad can 2-3 shot them...

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

Better question...

Why do barbs seem to think aoe pulling is about their HP instead of the DD's damage?

Because he has one skill with damage worth noting: Arma

And he's going to sacrifice everything for one hit.

who gives a **** about 1-1.5mil arma crits? A good squad will do three times that by the time you finish invoking.\

On that topic, since arma doesn't seem to scale with weapon or base phys damage, at some point, for APS barbs, would triple spark Sunder overtake arma damage (at say, +10 G16), assuming ~20K HP standing up?

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Because he has one skill with damage worth noting: Arma

And he's going to sacrifice everything for one hit.

who gives a **** about 1-1.5mil arma crits? A good squad will do three times that by the time you finish invoking.\

On that topic, since arma doesn't seem to scale with weapon or base phys damage, at some point, for APS barbs, would triple spark Sunder overtake arma damage (at say, +10 G16), assuming ~20K HP standing up?

mmm I'm not sure if arma is affected by attack levels. if it's not, then a demon arma of a 30k kitty would be around 75k; while a demon sparked sunder will be 82k for a r9rr+12 after the attack levels. g16+10 is around 62k

Haila - Sanctuary

Chuck_smith - Sanctuary wrote: »

Stopped reading there sorry, apparently you didn't even look at his base M.DEF...

Metal: 5310 Wood: 5310 Water: 5310 Fire: 5310 Earth: 5310

Learn how to read please...

I just wanna tell you stopped reading almost at the end of his post lol b:nosebleed

Chuck_smith - Sanctuary

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

1. It's 8K with a level 10 cleric buff.

I already know how to use pw calc, using buffs outside of the class is cheap and of course, in group PVP (which is the majority of people that do PVP does in groups) Most of the time you'll be purged/debuffed, so don't try that excuse.

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

In group pvp you would not use APS gears

are you like, mentally challenged? We've said time and time again that you swap gears for PVP

EDIT: I give up; not going to be mommy and teach you how to change what you're wearing