Channeling?

SonaKay - Lost City

I recently starting playing a wiz and was wondering is channeling is necessary because casting is painfully slow. I see some wizards with it and some without. Whats the best way to go with channeling on a wiz?


Please and Thanks b:pleased

XEmpressX - Heavens Tear

Its ok for PVE when you are going through your 70's to 100, but you once hit 100 and start PK (why would you make a wiz if you are not gonna pk?) you will want to change out -chan gear for Def gear. As far as i know, there is not def gear that has -chan on it.

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

R9rr has -chan in nice amounts

zeroxwingx

If you want to trade ~1000 pdef for 12-24 -% channeling from necklace and belt then do so. Just know that if anything with physical base damage gets to you, you're in a buttload of hurt. If you can kill in 2-3 shots, or if you already have enough defenses and get hit for ~5% of your hp, then -% chan. is more useful. One more thing to keep in mind is that earth shield amplifies your physical defense--so you're trading something like ~2000-2500 pdef at around +6 refines. Super end game gears are super end game due to the best stats in game being added as set and component bonuses.


I'm commenting based on the assumption that you are aware of some game mechanics as well as being 7X+. If you're just starting out, the heck with everyone else and just have fun with your Wizard and whatever gears you can get your hands on.

A decent ballpark range without breaking your bank is 27-33% chan. This allows you to chain some nice combos. Good luck with your Wizard.

FaceRolI - Sanctuary

the best way to go channeling is to get full r999 +12 josd, chaneling helm/cape (drakeflames ?) -18 channeling neck and ring. gl

to go channeling you give up... m atk, crit, pdef, def lvl, atk lvl, magic. but it has its moments

there are also very few r999 sins on sanc b:thanks

i dont really recommend it though gl

SweetAnthrax - Heavens Tear

Channel build has its perks but you should avoid wearing elemental belt and necklace. Physical resistance would be a bit too low otherwise.

Fissile - Archosaur

There is no reason you can't have both sets of gear and switch when the situation is appropriate. Before I got my recast r9 armor I had -68% base channeling. I usually mix and match channeling gear (since I already have it) / r9 based on the situation. In full defense gear, a Wizard's channeling is painfully slow (especially if you get hit with a slow channeling debuff).

Kittysama - Raging Tide_1432680721

Having both gears is pretty good idea. If there's not much p. dmg incoming, it's easy to swap to -channeling gear from p. def gear and viceversa. With for example -33% wizzie starts to feel a bit like a psy when it comes to shooting spells quickf:cute

XSonOfCircex - Sanctuary

Channeling on a wizard can be very good, BUT you sacrifice a lot of survivability and dph potential. To be more of a tank build you need r9/g16/r9r3 and a cube neck, and warsong belt if not going the r9 route. This will put you around 22%-30 channeling with 2 6% rings. If you want to go more seriously towards survivability, a Sky Cover can boost it a lot at high refines, but will drop your channeling more. You can also use savants to increase channeling but again that will drop your weapon damage significantly, especially if you are comparing the potential from icebournes.

You could get the warsong hat and channeling cape, but they refine for much less and you'll find yourself with significantly less HP than if you went with a g16 or NW option.

If you desperately want a channeling set, I would strongly encourage you getting it in addition to a survivability set.

Mr_Lapp - Lost City

I would suggest to reroll a different class than being a wizard if you want to go for speed for your attacks for endgame. Wasting your time for just thinking about it.

Toliman - Raging Tide

Mr_Lapp - Lost City wrote: »

I would suggest to reroll a different class than being a wizard if you want to go for speed for your attacks for endgame. Wasting your time for just thinking about it.

Sutra can help you to reduce channeling almost to 0 even without gear with - channeling bonus.

Toliman - Raging Tide

Just want to say, because it was big achievement for me, that my Wizard got -30% channeling at level 81.

I use common physical defense belt and necklace, so physical defense of my wizard had not been reduced because of above -30% channeling bonus.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

Toliman - Raging Tide wrote: »

Just want to say, because it was big achievement for me, that my Wizard got -30% channeling at level 81.

I use common physical defense belt and necklace, so physical defense of my wizard had not been reduced because of above -30% channeling bonus.

soemthing like http://pwcalc.com/a7bd3a222742a387 ?

Toliman - Raging Tide

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

soemthing like http://pwcalc.com/a7bd3a222742a387 ?

No. It is http://pwcalc.com/e04bb1b982e4ffd5

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

Toliman - Raging Tide wrote: »

No. It is http://pwcalc.com/e04bb1b982e4ffd5

aah right, rank chest. that makes it cheaper since -6% rings still cost quite a bit

Toliman - Raging Tide

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

aah right, rank chest. that makes it cheaper since -6% rings still cost quite a bit

At level 90 I will change rank chest for even better ★ Robe of the Windcatcher.

Anri_Rose - Archosaur

I am proud to say that up until recently I have almost no -chan gear as a wiz.
Does it make playing PvE painfully slow sometimes, YES of course it does.
Even now i only have i think maybe -12% chan on myself right now, but since ive played this entire time with my normal casting speed it really doesnt bother me.

As for pvp stuff , I really dont touch that im just good old boss blower upper. I dont really do much pvp.

Toliman - Raging Tide

Anri_Rose - Archosaur wrote: »

I am proud to say that up until recently I have almost no -chan gear as a wiz.
Does it make playing PvE painfully slow sometimes, YES of course it does.
Even now i only have i think maybe -12% chan on myself right now, but since ive played this entire time with my normal casting speed it really doesnt bother me.
...

DPS of the Wizard is dependent from channeling time of his skills.

Look at -Channeling vs. Critical chance damage increase comparison.

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver wrote:

Here is graph of Damage increase dependent from channeling for Pyrogram - up to [100%+142%] = 242% total dps with increase from -channeling - just to show calculation results at graphical form

So, if your channeling bonus is near to 0%, then you use your skills at normal speed, any Wizard with channeling bonus more than your channeling bonus and same (basic magic attack, attack level, level of Wizard and level of skills) will do more damage per same time.

Some skills are less affected by channeling time, like Dragon's Breath, for example.

Ursa - Dreamweaver

channeling is always good to have, but the million dollar question is where to stop.
80-90% channel wizzies are possible and viable in PvE. It's nice and fun to play one, but there's something people tend to forget: The wiz skills have 2 components: channel and casting. You can reduce the channel part but you're still going to have a constant casting time.
Channeling gear is extremely expensive (most of the time) and it comes at a big trade off: defense. Depending on what you want to do ingame it's viable or not. PvE wise the DPS increase around 70% channel is really nice but lets see how and where that actually helps:
1. PvE - questing solo - YES - but not a game changer. And by the time u have a ton of channel it's endgame and u don't quest solo anymore. Or at all.
2. PvE - squad BH and stuff - NO (an PvE aps toon will do more damage)
3. PvE - WS/endgame instance- YES but is not necessary. A metal/fire pav can be defended with a +5 R8 on a full mag wiz without any issues so the investment is not worth it
4. PvE - Delta - NO (culti + farming ..well not lately)
5. PvE - solo farm - NO, lol just make an APS char. For a while farming Caster nirv was za thing, now that's dead.
6. ... can't think of any other stuff right now...

Now a non channel wiz will do all the above with about the same amount of success , because you anyway end up with about 18-24% channel whatever you want it or not, and has the defenses to stand it's own in PvP.

now to go back to the idea how much channel is enough:
In PvE you should have enough channel to match the cooldown on your main dps skills: Gush+pyro+WoTP. You should be done with the channel of a Pyro right before the cooldown on Gush ends. And you should be able to fit exactly 3 pyro/gush/pyro before WotP coolds down so u go P/G/P/Wotp and repeat without waiting for cooldowns. This should flow seamelesly. I put pyro 2x because of chi chance gain on Sage, demon can use G/P/G for extra bonus dmg on Gush.
But the real gauge for channel is PvP. Go PvP, see what your or other wizard skill rotation is, see how much channel you'll need to land the skill you want/prefer in a sleep/stun/seal. Take that extra time away with the minimum amount of channeling required and you have your perfect wizard for you.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

Ursa is back? f:tired

Toliman - Raging Tide

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

...
Channeling gear is extremely expensive (most of the time) and it comes at a big trade off: defense. Depending on what you want to do ingame it's viable or not. PvE wise the DPS increase around 70% channel is really nice but lets see how and where that actually helps:
...
2. PvE - squad BH and stuff - NO (an PvE aps toon will do more damage)

...

Sometimes I tanked bosses with character level up to 90 in squad at level of my Wizard not more than 83.

And my Wizard has -30% channeling only.

Some Wizards use few skills only, they not know a bit about cooldown time of the skills or about Essential Sutra, about genies and about pots, about sparks and about chi, they can't get aggro from low - aps characters .
From Interval Gears Guide:

Max interval gears obtainable for various levels
(Also best possible gears)
...
Level 80 - 89: 2.00 APS
Level 90 - 98: 2.00 APS
...

If, just if my Wizard will go Demon, then my Wizard can get even more channeling from spark:

At level 29 you get your first spark eruption, and at level 59 you can learn the second spark eruption. At level 89 you choose between the path of sage or demon and they both get a different type of spark eruption. Sage will get celestial eruption which reduces damage taken by 25%, and demon has demonic eruption that reduces channeling speed by 25%.

From Mizuoni's Wizard Guide

Mizuoni wrote:

Wellspring Quaff (WQ) gives -10% channeling and demon spark gives you -25% channeling!

ecatomb.net wrote:

○Wellspring Quaff

Demon version gives a 20% channeling speed increase for 15 seconds.

And this is without equipment yet, which can reduce channeling time.

Let it calculate:
Essential Sutra -90% channeling for 6 sec. every 60 sec. (Costs 2 Sparks)
Demon spark gives you -25% channeling (Costs 3 Sparks)
Wellspring Quaff (?) -20% channeling for 15 seconds every 15 seconds (eternal ? - Cooldown　3.0　seconds)(Costs 1 Spark)


Even with -50% channeling bonus (-30% channeling bonus on equipment and -20% channeling bonus from skills) Wizard do 150% of damage on most of the skills' chains.

(6 sec *200%+(54 sec -8 sec)*150%)/60 sec=135%
, where 8 seconds - delay between skills.

So, in average Wizard do less damage, than high APS character.

But high APS character has high APS equipment and we must compare Wizard with high channeling bonus and high APS character ... this is another story.

Maximum for Wizard is 320% damage for Demon (307% for Sage) Divine Pyrogram with -90% channeling bonus, other skills less affected by channeling.

Ursa - Dreamweaver

your theorycrafting is doing good, the problem is real life situation is far from it. You cannot keep up your 20% channel bonus unless you milk the genie dry, use 2 spark pots and have 2 venos feeding you sparks. I'm sorry, mathematical yes, all is good. Real ingame sittuation? no way in hell. Channeling wizard is just a fun toy pre-100.


And since you started the talk of under 100 tanking, let me put it this way: we're not talking about how tanky wizards are in FB59. We're talking about how tanky wizards can be in physical dmg situation. If you have mdef neck and belt you're losing a minimum 1200 pdef. This is just from 2 pieces of gear.
Now, we go with lunar channel cape instead of 2x216 pdef one and we're losing another 1k pdef.
Lets take the 80 or 85? helm for channel also instead of a cheapo 300 pdef (3x94? cant remember the number) hat and we're talking about a good 600 pdef lost.
At this point lets consider both non channel and channel wiz use lunar rings, right? because otherwise we're trading 1200 pdef for 6-9 extra channel.

So basically you trade off 3k pdef (SELF BUFFED LOSS), while being under lvl 100 or in the early 100s before you're starting to add g15/g16 for channel/dps. I don't know what you have tanked before 100 but I tell you having 3k pdef less it makes a huge difference in what you can and cannot do. I really want to see your channeling wiz tanking Phlebo in his 90s for the daily BH while having about 5k pdef fully buffed. I really, really do.

I know is possible to play a high channel wizard, I know some ppl like it and they can usually leech around here and there, but I also know (and I've been around in this game for about 4 years now) that every wizard that tried it in the end gave up. It's not worth the astronomic cost of the channeling gear which is only good for some PvE sittuations. When you need to be tanky all your channel gear has to be switched. When you're in TW or NW there's nothing you can do with channel gear on.

And to end my post: after 100 having channeling gear is just plain suicidal. Game revolves now around attk and defense levels. Channeling is not coming as bonuses from G16/R9/R9r3 bonuses, and in the end, with that gear on, those wizards will severely out damage and out survive you, regardless of how much channel you have.

Toliman - Raging Tide

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

your theorycrafting is doing good, the problem is real life situation is far from it. You cannot keep up your 20% channel bonus unless you milk the genie dry, use 2 spark pots and have 2 venos feeding you sparks ...

I think it is possible using Zeal genie with high magic and CE skill, since I done it myself already.
Please, remember that high channeling give more chi per same period of time, because caster can use more skills (-50% channeling bonus mean +50% more chi).

Divine Pyrogram gives you 20 chi when you cast it.

Pyrogram gives you 15 chi when you cast it.

Gush gives you 10 chi when you cast it.

For Demon Spark you need 3 sparks for every 15 seconds.

During 15 seconds you can cast with -68% channeling from Demon Spark:

Divine Pyrogram (2.5*0.32+1=1.8)->Pyrogram(1.5*0.32+0.8=1.28)->
Divine Pyrogram (2.5*0.32+1=1.8)->Gush(1*0.32+1=1.32)->
Divine Pyrogram (2.5*0.32+1=1.8)->Pyrogram(1.5*0.32+0.8=1.28)->
Divine Pyrogram (2.5*0.32+1=1.8)->Gush(1*0.32+1=1.32)->
Divine Pyrogram (2.5*0.32+1=1.8)->

(14.2 seconds and 5*20+(15+10)*2=150 chi total)

Cloud Eruption give 123 chi every 50 seconds on 70/100 genie with 44 strength, 30 Vitality, 79 Magic.


Demon spark is preferable, of course, than Wellspring Quaff, even if we will have delays with less channeling between Demon sparks.

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

...

And since you started the talk of under 100 tanking, let me put it this way: we're not talking about how tanky wizards are in FB59. We're talking about how tanky wizards can be in physical dmg situation. If you have mdef neck and belt you're losing a minimum 1200 pdef. This is just from 2 pieces of gear.
Now, we go with lunar channel cape instead of 2x216 pdef one and we're losing another 1k pdef.
Lets take the 80 or 85? helm for channel also instead of a cheapo 300 pdef (3x94? cant remember the number) hat and we're talking about a good 600 pdef lost.
At this point lets consider both non channel and channel wiz use lunar rings, right? because otherwise we're trading 1200 pdef for 6-9 extra channel.

So basically you trade off 3k pdef (SELF BUFFED LOSS), while being under lvl 100 or in the early 100s before you're starting to add g15/g16 for channel/dps. I don't know what you have tanked before 100 but I tell you having 3k pdef less it makes a huge difference in what you can and cannot do. I really want to see your channeling wiz tanking Phlebo in his 90s for the daily BH while having about 5k pdef fully buffed. I really, really do ...

I here have some thoughts about level 100 Wizard with -43 channeling without buffs, using equipment, which I saw sometimes ... 10934 defense with Wizard's Stone Barrier and Cleric's buff, 8932 self buffed. I had not inserted some gems, because it can differ for each Wizard and this is just example.

For this Wizard channeling bonus can be -63% or even more using his skills, maximum for Wizard is 207% damage for Demon Divine Pyrogram with such channeling bonus.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

Toliman - Raging Tide wrote: »

I here have some thoughts about level 100 Wizard with -43 channeling without buffs, using equipment, which I saw sometimes ... 10934 defense with Wizard's Stone Barrier and Cleric's buff, 8932 self buffed. I had not inserted some gems, because it can differ for each Wizard and this is just example.

well. to be frank it's a horribly expensive build with horribly low defenses/dmg and horrible under-utilisation of set bonuses.

1. you dont take advantage of nirvy set bonus by picking one lunar and one tt version. I'll assume that that's a mistake
2. you dont take advantage of the g16 2-parts set bonus for 700 hp; best way to do that without losing the chan would be the boots although chest is way better for the +%pdef
3. I assume that the r8 sword is there cause it's basically free since you got r8 for ring/chest. but g16 is like 1.5x times better and not that expensive if you farm the badges
4. g15 orns? alright the belt is only 40m extra but cube is 140m extra... and at this point the returns from the extra pdef are not really worth it
5. for the same reason, hp shards are probably better although I haven't done the math for wizzies. for no buffs, after 3k pdef hp is better..

all in all, this build just proves what ursa said: that if you aim for chan you are left with low defenses; game is all about attack/def levels now. well, at least you didn't get the r6 weapon (not a joke; some psy have done it)

Toliman - Raging Tide

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

well. to be frank it's a horribly expensive build with horribly low defenses/dmg and horrible under-utilisation of set bonuses.

1. you dont take advantage of nirvy set bonus by picking one lunar and one tt version. I'll assume that that's a mistake
2. you dont take advantage of the g16 2-parts set bonus for 700 hp; best way to do that without losing the chan would be the boots although chest is way better for the +%pdef
3. I assume that the r8 sword is there cause it's basically free since you got r8 for ring/chest. but g16 is like 1.5x times better and not that expensive if you farm the badges
4. g15 orns? alright the belt is only 40m extra but cube is 140m extra... and at this point the returns from the extra pdef are not really worth it
5. for the same reason, hp shards are probably better although I haven't done the math for wizzies. for no buffs, after 3k pdef hp is better..

all in all, this build just proves what ursa said: that if you aim for chan you are left with low defenses; game is all about attack/def levels now. well, at least you didn't get the r6 weapon (not a joke; some psy have done it)

After reading Ursa post I understand, that Wizard need more physical defense, what is reflected in above build.

It is good, that you can place your own items for your own Nirvana set, but my purpose was to show, that it is possible to get -channeling bonus.

I myself don't worry about +/- of the cost of the above belt, using ☆Eye of the Jungle, which I bought not long ago and refined to +5.

Also R8 items are better for me since they are cheap and are better, than nothing (for level 100, of course).

If 9k physical defense self-buffed is not suitable for level 100 Wizard, than what it must be ?

Ursa - Dreamweaver

your example with a 9k pdef wizz is great. But again , is theorycrafting. If you look at the stats window only everything looks fine. Problem is when you move your eyes to the HP part...5k HP defended by 10k pdef self buffed is nothing.
You wont be able to survive half a pull in warsong without herbs/pots. Sure , you can run around like that, but you're just a disaster waiting to happen. Sooner or later you will die, squad will have to wait until you run back + extra time with no DD. You and your friends might not mind +2h warsong runs, but most people will avoid you like wild fire. Lets add the new rocks in Abaddon that you need to pass or some metal mobs in SoT that could ruin your day. Sure, you can compensate for some weaknesses, but you're compensating at the expense of helping the squad. In perfect life situations you might be really good with that build, but let me remind you, if you want DPS there are at least 4 (yup, four). HA clerics are also an option, Arcane barbs can live for a while too. Does it make sense? nope , but who cares, it's a fantasy game in the past with motorcycle mounts so I mean why not? Are those variations actually good for anything? nope. This game did not come out yesterday, I've been playing it for 5 years (counting PW-MY). If there was something special about channeling wizards people will have built them a long time ago.

Beside, any kind of PvP is out of question with that HP and those attk/def levels, so you're going to need another set of gear.

but hey, no one stops people coating 2 mil $ Pagani Zonda's in chrome.... but least in their case there still is a beast under the hood.

FaceRolI - Sanctuary

didnt read any of it \o/

if you're going to go chan wiz then best of luck, we benefit less from purify proc due to killing people w/ multiple weaker hits and the fact that we can take less hits.

Toliman - Raging Tide

FaceRolI - Sanctuary wrote: »

didnt read any of it \o/

if you're going to go chan wiz then best of luck, we benefit less from purify proc due to killing people w/ multiple weaker hits and the fact that we can take less hits.

what was the original question/point of the thread?

Original question:

SonaKay - Lost City wrote: »

I recently starting playing a wiz and was wondering is channeling is necessary because casting is painfully slow. I see some wizards with it and some without. Whats the best way to go with channeling on a wiz?


Please and Thanks b:pleased

FaceRolI - Sanctuary

Toliman - Raging Tide wrote: »

Original question:

ill show you in a bit b:thanks