The kind of endgame questions a noob would ask

Argenesis - Raging Tide

As you read this I want you to bare in mind that I am not only demon, but I am from Raging Tides server, where the BMs all suck, the assassins all auto-attack, the barbs have nothing for attack, and the archers are rare.

So I will indeed be going rank 9 t3, but what to do with shards?

I have 3 ideas in my head.

Half JoSD; Half Garnet - Most P.Def without sacrificing -too- many defense levels. This way on the rare occasion that a good sin or BM actually arrives, or at least one with r9t3+12, I have a high chance to survive. A crit zerk smack stings...

Half JoSD; Half DoD - decent-ish defenses, more attack, oneshot people before they can even hit me.

Full JoSD - Most expensive, will take VERY long to get, but intense defenses and very well rounded.

And as for the weapon...Icebournes or channeling? Or one of each? DISCUSS!

And probably a skycover at at least +10...

Should I get stage 2 Nirv helm and cape for the added P.Def and attack level bonus, or stick with channeling? Nah, not staying with channeling. Stage 2 or stage 3 Nirv?

Would a r8r defense level weapon be worth the investment?

HrunsPanda - Archosaur

Im not into casters and not into end game (r9.3) equipment but a little help i can offer :

Let this be of help to choose your shards

Would a r8r defense level weapon be worth the investment?

If you are going for r9.3 ? where the caster weapon has this much debated purify proc that half the population wants nerfed ? and the attack levels ? and the damage ?
I cant immagine this being a good idea....

XEmpressX - Heavens Tear

If you shard -chan stones in ur weap, i will stab you in the face! An extra -6chan is not going to make as much difference as +200 Mag attack will.

Argenesis - Raging Tide

XEmpressX - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If you shard -chan stones in ur weap, i will stab you in the face! An extra -6chan is not going to make as much difference as +200 Mag attack will.

Noobtastic questions are noobtastic!

MadSkiIIz - Sanctuary

if u plan to 1v1 PK, then u shud prolly get JOSD

if u plan to mass PvP and ur not a total noob when it comes to positioning, just get DoTs, else u still wont be a threat to JOSD tankies

Adroit - Lost City

MadSkiIIz - Sanctuary wrote: »

if u plan to 1v1 PK, then u shud prolly get JOSD

if u plan to mass PvP and ur not a total noob when it comes to positioning, just get DoTs, else u still wont be a threat to JOSD tankies

I disagree, when I go against DOT builds in group pvp, they hit slightly harder but die many times easier. Basically they get one shot and ignored. "JOSD tankies" die when getting focused, where the difference that a few dots make on one character are unlikely to change the outcome.. and more than likely won't be alive to be DDing anyway.

MadSkiIIz - Sanctuary

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

I disagree, when I go against DOT builds in group pvp, they hit slightly harder but die many times easier. Basically they get one shot and ignored. "JOSD tankies" die when getting focused, where the difference that a few dots make on one character are unlikely to change the outcome.. and more than likely won't be alive to be DDing anyway.

its a high risk, high reward deal.

Ignoring ur defense isnt good, but refinements on armor/ornaments + set bonus is enuff to not get bursted by any class.

Being the 'easy kill' in TW will oftenly cause people to overcommit.

If u wanna be the guy standing in front of ur lesser geared allies then sure, JOSD all the way, tho the glass cannon can force many missplays by the opponent while at the same time dealing more damage than a tankier version.

But I guess both are viable, it depends on playstyle..with full DoT u'd never be able to 1v1 properly tho (vs other endgame geared ppl that is) without outplaying them painfully hard

Adroit - Lost City

MadSkiIIz - Sanctuary wrote: »

its a high risk, high reward deal.

Ignoring ur defense isnt good, but refinements on armor/ornaments + set bonus is enuff to not get bursted by any class.

Being the 'easy kill' in TW will oftenly cause people to overcommit.

If u wanna be the guy standing in front of ur lesser geared allies then sure, JOSD all the way, tho the glass cannon can force many missplays by the opponent while at the same time dealing more damage than a tankier version.

But I guess both are viable, it depends on playstyle..with full DoT u'd never be able to 1v1 properly tho (vs other endgame geared ppl that is) without outplaying them painfully hard

A while back I looked at the difference in survivability vs the extra damage that josds vs dots offered, it was around 40% more survivability vs ~10-15% more damage. Assuming you could afford either, I don't really think it is a tough choice.. josd build is obviously better.

Argenesis - Raging Tide

And what about a mix of JoSD and DoT? As I said, the kind of questions a noob would ask, but I wanna be on the better end. I will need to improve my skills as well...I'm only 90 right now.

Adroit - Lost City

Argenesis - Raging Tide wrote: »

And what about a mix of JoSD and DoT? As I said, the kind of questions a noob would ask, but I wanna be on the better end. I will need to improve my skills as well...I'm only 90 right now.

JOSD all the way

XSonOfCircex - Sanctuary

Even going citrines over DoTs is probably good. Due to the huge amount of attack levels you have anyway from being r9r3 and either an o'malleys or jones, you'll have either 110-115ish or 125-130 depending on choice of blessing, what level cube neck, engraving, etc. That means that 24 dots will be approximately an 11% increase in damage. Compare that to full citrines, which will get you 2760 hp for a comparable cost. Assuming +10 refines, depending on what hat and cape you have, as well as engraving and tome, you'll be at somewhere between 11k and 12k hp, making this a more than 20% increase in survivability (it will be a little over 23% for me when i finish getting mine)

I would have rather had JoSDs but the cost was prohibitive for me.

You can't kill if you're dead. As someone with an r9r3+12 weapon, my capacity for dealing damage is rarely the problem, it's surviving long enough to do so when I have several people focusing on me. As a DoT build, if people aren't grouped up for you to AoE them before some sort of immunity expires, you're screwed, especially against people with comparable gear. With Jades you'll take slightly longer to kill them but will survive long enough to do so.

Remember that in group pk you have people coming to amp your damage to targets and help kill them, and people can do the same to you. That means both that you don't need to necessarily hit 40k every hit (though the 40k hits are nice) and you need to be able to handle getting several 2-3k hits at once, and deal with occasional 10k hits on you. Both of those are hard with a DoT build.

Argenesis - Raging Tide

JoSD it is, but nobody commented on the question of stage 2 nirvy vs stage 3 nirvy, I'd like to hear some opinions. Also, if I get the upgraded rank 9 ring, should I use a skycover at all with refines, or just say **** it and sue a cloud stir for the attack and channeling?

Adroit - Lost City

Argenesis - Raging Tide wrote: »

JoSD it is, but nobody commented on the question of stage 2 nirvy vs stage 3 nirvy, I'd like to hear some opinions. Also, if I get the upgraded rank 9 ring, should I use a skycover at all with refines, or just say **** it and sue a cloud stir for the attack and channeling?

I prefer stage 3 nv, but those choices are close enough where it probably won't even matter what you choose, you can just go off whatever appeals to you more. You will still want to use a skycover (or some pdef ring) along with upgraded r9 ring for when you are self buffed, but it is definitely possible to get both rings and switch them out as necessary.

Argenesis - Raging Tide

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

I prefer stage 3 nv, but those choices are close enough where it probably won't even matter what you choose, you can just go off whatever appeals to you more. You will still want to use a skycover (or some pdef ring) along with upgraded r9 ring for when you are self buffed, but it is definitely possible to get both rings and switch them out as necessary.

Noted. I think I'll prefer stage 2 Nirv over stage three but I can give the stage 2 a test drive first. And one last question...What would come first, the sky cover or the cloud stir? Or is that just preference?

Adroit - Lost City

Argenesis - Raging Tide wrote: »

Noted. I think I'll prefer stage 2 Nirv over stage three but I can give the stage 2 a test drive first. And one last question...What would come first, the sky cover or the cloud stir? Or is that just preference?

I would definitely suggest sky cover, the only time I really use my magic ring is when 1v1ing a magic class.. and every once in a while when I'm full buffed. Probably 99% of the time I'm using my pdef ring, kinda feel squishy without it.

MadSkiIIz - Sanctuary

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

A while back I looked at the difference in survivability vs the extra damage that josds vs dots offered, it was around 40% more survivability vs ~10-15% more damage. Assuming you could afford either, I don't really think it is a tough choice.. josd build is obviously better.

mmm this comment made me a little sad. You say it wont be a tough choice, but I think +15% dmg over +40% survivability its a very tough choice...

The way u look at it is what I call the pokemon mentality...we'll take turns hitting eachother and whoever kills the other first wins. In which case, yes +40% survive will easily win. But looking at it like this is basically expecting 2 three year old kids face off in a buttonsmashing contest.

But the higher ur skill the less ur survivability will matter, and the more ur damage will matter. Basically hitting others without getting hit urself. Its all about ur positioning...with proper damage estimation there are only 2 risks, even without survivability. You either get locked in place forever, which can be countered by genie, or u get bursted, which with decently refined gear will hardly ever happen without u seeing it coming (cuz only sins can burst u from full blind), and when u see it coming it cant be countered by Apot/Genie/Repositioning with Purify speed or Distance Shrink

I hope it makes sense to u that the importance of defense vs offense is not 1 : 1 when u hit others without gettin hit urself.

@Circe, im kinda talking about pretty much finalized gear, on our gear, garnets and citrine would be much more effective than on finalized gear ofcourse so I defo agree that it can be better, but JOSDs vs DoTs Id always choose DoTs is what im trying to say ^^

XSonOfCircex - Sanctuary

I agree, if you're +12 you have a large enough HP pool that citrines only offer about a 15% increase in HP, and you'll have enough pdef from the rings that garnets are almost redundant. I'd still agree with Adroit on this though, while the +15ish % increase in survivability would no doubt be nice, I already hit pretty damn hard, and if I really need to hit harder that's why I have extreme poison and spark on my genie, but those are for when I'm in a situation where I don't need the survivability option. I'd rather be as tanky as possible and have the option to use my genie to survive more or kill more than put all my eggs in the "Imma keel chu fast" basket and then be struggling to stay alive with genie and apoth barely getting me through and needing to kite too much to kill. I find that with +12 my damage is so high, even with only perfect gems (icebournes are a work in progress as soon as I stop being sick and my internet stops hating me) I hit very hard. While those DoTs would obviously make me hit harder, I hit hard enough. Of course, that's as a sage wiz who does almost exclusively mass pk in terms of pk scenairos (TW/NW) so if you've got different priorities you might look at it differently.

Adroit - Lost City

MadSkiIIz - Sanctuary wrote: »

mmm this comment made me a little sad. You say it wont be a tough choice, but I think +15% dmg over +40% survivability its a very tough choice...

The way u look at it is what I call the pokemon mentality...we'll take turns hitting eachother and whoever kills the other first wins. In which case, yes +40% survive will easily win. But looking at it like this is basically expecting 2 three year old kids face off in a buttonsmashing contest.

But the higher ur skill the less ur survivability will matter, and the more ur damage will matter. Basically hitting others without getting hit urself. Its all about ur positioning...with proper damage estimation there are only 2 risks, even without survivability. You either get locked in place forever, which can be countered by genie, or u get bursted, which with decently refined gear will hardly ever happen without u seeing it coming (cuz only sins can burst u from full blind), and when u see it coming it cant be countered by Apot/Genie/Repositioning with Purify speed or Distance Shrink

I hope it makes sense to u that the importance of defense vs offense is not 1 : 1 when u hit others without gettin hit urself.

@Circe, im kinda talking about pretty much finalized gear, on our gear, garnets and citrine would be much more effective than on finalized gear ofcourse so I defo agree that it can be better, but JOSDs vs DoTs Id always choose DoTs is what im trying to say ^^

JOSD builds will help you be where you need to be to kill your opponents (i.e. positioning). Full dot builds get wrecked by end game DD classes.. where I can absorb a little damage and get where I need to be to kill a target, a dot build would be forced more towards the outskirts of any pk.. and really any r9rr +12 char starts looking your direction and a dot build would really have to think twice about trying to finish off a target or bail before the damage starts coming in. To add to that, full josd builds do ridiculous damage as is.. it's not like you'll suddenly be able to kill opponents you couldn't kill before.. with no dots in armor you can still totally shet on just about anything you target with a spark combo.. I just think you are focusing on the wrong thing. Basically, I can tell you we have plenty of damage to kill stuff as is without the need for dots, and josds allow you to make it out of many more situations alive + a better ability to be where you need to be to take down opponents (e.g. 2 end game archers out somewhere kinda isolated, where a josd could could run in and try to ninja one/both of the archers.. more than likely a dot build would have to steer clear and rely on support to even get close)