Perfect World International: R999 BM vs R999 Barb (Sanctuary)

TheDan - Sanctuary

Some long footage of me facing an equally skilled and similar geared barb opponent. Both using chi drain genies making it hard to combo or do anything at all. Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZ7Oqj3eceE

HrunsPanda - Archosaur

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

Some long footage of me facing an equally skilled and similar geared barb opponent. Both using chi drain genies making it hard to combo or do anything at all. Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZ7Oqj3eceE

thats gonna be a long vid i guess ? did anyone ever die or did you grow tired ?

edit: oh that actually goes pretty fast.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

Taken from max damage and max damage setups (minus DoT's ofc)

G16 vana fist at 3.33 does more than double the average DPS of R999 axe skill spam (high end base damage was used, attack level, crit, and GoF accounted for)

(47k raw for axe vs 97k raw fist)

Purify makes this useless vs casters but the 47k seems to do the job there with a bit of luck since the hp pool is low enough that GoF spikes actually matter

It seemed like both of you were trying to rush the fight by any means necessary up to and including just standing on each others face when the opponent was antistunned plus prayers to the purge gods.

So ya, axes are still herp derp vs other meles eh?

TheDan - Sanctuary

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

Taken from max damage and max damage setups (minus DoT's ofc)

G16 vana fist at 3.33 does more than double the average DPS of R999 axe skill spam (high end base damage was used, attack level, crit, and GoF accounted for)

(47k raw for axe vs 97k raw fist)

Purify makes this useless vs casters but the 47k seems to do the job there with a bit of luck since the hp pool is low enough that GoF spikes actually matter

It seemed like both of you were trying to rush the fight by any means necessary up to and including just standing on each others face when the opponent was antistunned plus prayers to the purge gods.

So ya, axes are still herp derp vs other meles eh?

Would that also factoring in the 100 STR from the r999 set bonus too? I've never really used the damage calculator before so I wouldn't know, and I'm also too lazy lol.

He made it very hard for me to switch into my APS gear because he was constantly spamming mighty swing, purge and bestial rage, along with blood rush so I'd need the defenses in case he arma'd me at half life and purged.

The main problem with fists is that I wouldn't have been able to by-pass solid shield for a finishing kill using fists alone, nor would I have been able to tank arma at half life while purged. Reckless rush on the other hand can deal up to 10k damage after charm tick on heavy armors below 50% HP for a finishing blow through solid shield without giving him too much chi in return from bestial rage or proc'ing the Blood Rush morai skill buff as often.

I was building chi with the TT100s hoping to catch him while he was purged and land a reckless rush on him below 50% through his solid shield. My tt99 LA is only +7 so I avoided the G16 fists cause I only have 13k hp with them. I played pretty conservatively near the end cause I was trying to lock him down on chi so he couldn't arma. The only way I could safely kill him without endangering myself by giving him chi or extra phys attack from blood rush was hoping for spike damage zerk crits followed by a reckless rush through his solid shield lol.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

He made it very hard for me to switch into my APS gear because he was constantly spamming purge and bestial rage, along with blood rush so I'd need the defenses in case he arma'd me at half life and purged.

The main problem with fists is that I wouldn't have been able to by-pass solid shield for a finishing kill using fists alone, nor would I have been able to tank arma at half life while purged. Reckless rush on the other hand can deal up to 10k damage after charm tick on heavy armors below 50% HP for a finishing blow through solid shield without giving him too much chi in return from bestial rage or proc'ing the Blood Rush morai skill buff as often.

I wrote out a lot of valid points including Fist sets that are only 20 def levels or 2 clicks away from r999 def along with easy strats to abuse it.

Then I realized, 97k vs 47k high end (claws are like 115k high end LOL)

So 3 bullet points

1) Bestial rage/taking hits skills are the biggest issue with fist strats in a chi burner matchup. Living arma is great but you die to it enough in the vid that this is a pretty moot point.

2) Doubling your average damage output while still being able to spike 15% below full r999 (unless you just swap back) changes the matchup enough that even Solid Shield has a minimal impact.

3) Tanking each others faces is boring to play and boring to watch. If either of you had gone full turtle the fight would only have ended in an arma zerk crit. YOLO it up

Yes its using 100 str R999 on both. Drop that (I may be the only one obsessed with a -.1 R8R chest) and fists are around 85k top end with claws at 92ish.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

Double post but eh

I used high end damage to give axes all the edge I could mid/low damage comparisons are just pathetic

with server lag and skill spam axes are about .66 average however they do burst damage at up to 1 with high CD instants thrown in.

axes gain another 1.1-1.05 multiplier vs full JOSD, fists stay the same or take a .95 multiplier

even at even damage (at absolute best axes are 20-30% lower dps wise and they can only keep that up for about 5 seconds every minute or 2) fists gain more chi

Not hating on the Dervish at all here or on axe burst combo's in general. They're fantastic and are a vital part of bm pvp in most if not all matchups. Just gotta go fast sometimes

TheDan - Sanctuary

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

He made it very hard for me to switch into my APS gear because he was constantly spamming purge and bestial rage, along with blood rush so I'd need the defenses in case he arma'd me at half life and purged.

The main problem with fists is that I wouldn't have been able to by-pass solid shield for a finishing kill using fists alone, nor would I have been able to tank arma at half life while purged. Reckless rush on the other hand can deal up to 10k damage after charm tick on heavy armors below 50% HP for a finishing blow through solid shield without giving him too much chi in return from bestial rage or proc'ing the Blood Rush morai skill buff as often.

I wrote out a lot of valid points including Fist sets that are only 20 def levels or 2 clicks away from r999 def along with easy strats to abuse it.

Then I realized, 97k vs 47k high end (claws are like 115k high end LOL)

So 3 bullet points

1) Bestial rage/taking hits skills are the biggest issue with fist strats in a chi burner matchup. Living arma is great but you die to it enough in the vid that this is a pretty moot point.

2) Doubling your average damage output while still being able to spike 15% below full r999 (unless you just swap back) changes the matchup enough that even Solid Shield has a minimal impact.

3) Tanking each others faces is boring to play and boring to watch. If either of you had gone full turtle the fight would only have ended in an arma zerk crit. YOLO it up

Yes its using 100 str R999 on both. Drop that (I may be the only one obsessed with a -.1 R8R chest) and fists are around 85k top end with claws at 92ish.

1. Agreed, unless your APS gear puts you at significant lower survival rate which was my case haha, I stayed in 3.33 TT100s cause my LA is only +7.

2. I'd think this is the case 50% of the time, since bestial rage would be on half the time, I think the axe spike damage would be more viable during the duration of bestial rage, and still have similar damage out-put including reckless rush. After Bestial Rage is off then fists are the way to go to re-gain the chi and damage.

3. Yeah, if I had the option of gear APS gear I'd probably have been using my APS set up more, but my LA is only +7 so I kind of stayed away from it except for building chi lol.

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

Double post but eh

I used high end damage to give axes all the edge I could mid/low damage comparisons are just pathetic

with server lag and skill spam axes are about .66 average however they do burst damage at up to 1 with high CD instants thrown in.

axes gain another 1.1-1.05 multiplier vs full JOSD, fists stay the same or take a .95 multiplier

even at even damage (at absolute best axes are 20-30% lower dps wise and they can only keep that up for about 5 seconds every minute or 2) fists gain more chi

Not hating on the Dervish at all here or on axe burst combo's in general. They're fantastic and are a vital part of bm pvp in most if not all matchups. Just gotta go fast sometimes

Yeah, the damage is quite nice with a good APS set up, if I had my APS gears refined I probably would have been doing this without fearing the arma purge lol. Just with my current set up +10 g16 fists 3.33 puts me down to 13k hp with my LA gear on, probably would've died instantly each time.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

1. Agreed, unless your APS gear puts you at significant lower survival rate which was my case haha, I stayed in 3.33 TT100s cause my LA is only +7.

R8R kinda removes the need for LA

2. I'd think this is the case 50% of the time, since bestial rage would be on half the time, I think the axe spike damage would be more viable during the duration of bestial rage, and still have similar damage out-put including reckless rush. After Bestial Rage is off then fists are the way to go to re-gain the chi and damage.

Unless axes now bypass damage % reduction BR is just purge pole + stunlock time (unless they're low enough that you can burst bypass)

3. Yeah, if I had the option of gear APS gear I'd probably have been using my APS set up more, but my LA is only +7 so I kind of stayed away from it except for building chi lol.

Well the option is there and thats my point, again I may be the only one obsessed with a -.1 R8R chest (that 100 str from 3 set r999 ) but once you finish your refines on R999 armor its not like theres any paths to improve DPH or survival. But there are a few to jack up DPS without losing survival.

Yeah, the damage is quite nice with a good APS set up, if I had my APS gears refined I probably would have been doing this without fearing the arma purge lol. Just with my current set up +10 g16 fists 3.33 puts me down to 13k hp with my LA gear on, probably would've died instantly each time.

Lol ya I wasnt hating on your play there or saying "Y U NO TT100" I was simply giving ya some food for thought on a way to improve your HA matchups. G12 gear just cant cut it vs R999 due to the **** def and i would never activity recommend using it aside from chi building. G 15 with better than 1st cast R9 def is perfectly usable though.

TL;DR In my comments aside from the "well that was a touch boring to watch"I wasn't hating on the fight playstyle etc. Rare for me but eh. I was pointing out the now ignored fact that fists still molest heavies and that there are ways to build for int these days without saccing survivability and while using up to 3 r999 items.

Theres this mental illness in a lot of the posts I read where full R999 axe is the only viable build and no matchup will ever need or want a different weapon. This is true with purify users. 5 classes in the game lack that proc and ye ole shiny damage hoses have a very nice niche there. You can make do with a r999 pure axe set in these fights but it is still less than ideal.

And before someone brings up the "loss" of axe spam, we is bm's. A long time ago in a galaxy far far away we swapped weapons up to 3 times a second.

TheDan - Sanctuary

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

TL;DR In my comments aside from the "well that was a touch boring to watch"I wasn't hating on the fight playstyle etc. Rare for me but eh. I was pointing out the now ignored fact that fists still molest heavies and that there are ways to build for int these days without saccing survivability and while using up to 3 r999 items.

Theres this mental illness in a lot of the posts I read where full R999 axe is the only viable build and no matchup will ever need or want a different weapon. This is true with purify users. 5 classes in the game lack that proc and ye ole shiny damage hoses have a very nice niche there. You can make do with a r999 pure axe set in these fights but it is still less than ideal.

And before someone brings up the "loss" of axe spam, we is bm's. A long time ago in a galaxy far far away we swapped weapons up to 3 times a second.

Yeah, I get you. Btw the reckless rush skill does bypasses % damage reduction, that's why I was saying it's an excellent way to bypass solid shield as a finishing blow with axes. Though for me it was still hard to kill the barb since he has like 30k hp + standing so 10k on reckless rush still puts him at 5k hp below half life. I got him to like below 2-3k hp multiple times but he simply had too much hp to drop before a charm tick lol.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

Yeah, I get you. Btw the reckless rush skill does bypasses % damage reduction, that's why I was saying it's an excellent way to bypass solid shield as a finishing blow with axes. Though for me it was still hard to kill the barb since he has like 30k hp + standing so 10k on reckless rush still puts him at 5k hp below half life. I got him to like below 2-3k hp multiple times but he simply had too much hp to drop before a charm tick lol.

Ya I figured reckless bypassed from the way your using it/solid shield example. I was stating that other axe skills dont bypass.

I like the idea of Dps spam to reckless kill point>esc>swap>reckless, seems legit.

2-3k survive sounds like its only a zerk crit from dead however

A) His armor is still mostly +10
2-3k in human is 9-10k in tiger (so what....8k+ live at +12 human 18k+ in tiger?)
C) Full R999 +12 axes are the best damage you will get from that route period.

In other words at full refine R999 will not tank arma will not kill and will still give you **** chi gain. Full R999 is a necessary evil vs purify but the kill options are narrow enough (even with morai) that a skilled endgame player (Ok these are almost non existent but still why gear to kill idiots?) can create a situation where you cannot kill them sans back to back to back to back zerks crits. So basically its the same as every other gear cap we've ever had...we just cant fist robes anymore.