Puppies are hung from ceiling fans every time...

HideYoHubby - Archosaur

Jarkhen - Archosaur wrote: »

Arix, Omes, Authentic, off the top of my head. I know Xhalf_pintX and Taxi have both come close, but I don't think either actually got a oneshot. Finalizer came kind of close with a 21k zerk crit.

(For those not on archosaur, that's: seeker, seeker, wizard, sin, barb, and seeker, respectively)

Reflects pretty well what I thought, naming seekers is sorta pointless tbh. I`m sure Aur, iseek, aki, etc. can pull the same off as other seekers, its just the gear. Pretty sure taxi/gundum/etc. can 1shot those archers with arma zerk crit, getting in position to land those is a whole other thing though. I still would of expected to see more players outside 3 classes (Seeker, Barb & wizzie) that have obvious 1shot abilities.

Zsw - Dreamweaver

Jarkhen - Archosaur wrote: »

And psy w/ white voodoo.

Not to mention...

Your bm is running around -not- in magic marrow? What? Equalizing that alone (and adding +44 str and changing the bm's level to 105, since you neglected to do that on the BM while doing it on the archer) gave me 794012 effective HP against phys and 838806 effective HP against mag. I didn't bother with the calc for the rest, but:

Missing at least one self-buff: BM
Missing demon buffs: Wizard, Cleric
Missing buffs entirely: Psychic
Not level 105: BM, Assassin, Seeker
Using Matchless Wings instead of Heaven Ravager (what?): Wizard, Cleric, Veno, Psychic, Mystic
Gear not max stats: Wizard, Cleric, Veno, Psychic, Mystic
Gear missing +44 from engravings: Everything except archer

At least equalize the calcs if you're going to do a comparison like this.

Additionally, you claim that only seekers have "off the charts" effective HP, and only with phys. I'd like to point out that the -one- class where I actually fixed the discrepancies in the calc (BM) had 794102 / 838806 effective HP once I corrected it. The archer, when I ran the calc, had 533283 / 486591. That's a 49% / 72% higher effective HP for the BM than the archer - nowhere near equal. A screenshot, if you must: http://i.imgur.com/Hx0EHY7.png. That's archer on the left, BM on the right.

Psy with white voodo do no damage, so thats why I did not calculate for that. Psys will go into black voodo when they go for the kill. That's when you focus them.

I know I may have made some mistakes judging by the variance in numbers. It was kind of messy juggling 10 builds around, and I kept discovering mistakes every time. I thought I gave all the calcs demon buffs but apparently I still missed some, thats my fault.

The psychic i definitely calculated with buffs. I think I did not save it with buffs on though.

I am pretty sure I put max stats in HP for all of them. I may have missed on the magic, but it should be very minor.

I choose Matchless Wings due to the calculator showing that Matchless Wings yield greater effective HP for physical defense than Heaven Ravager did, and Arcanes generally prefer to stack more Pdef than Mdef.

I admit that my comparisons were somewhat sloppy. Although I do not believe they are too far off. I'd say the % error would be somewhere around 3-6%. I'm too tired to fix all the calculations and recalculate though.

I agree that Bms have a higher effective hp than archers, as well as seekers are barbs. But these are all heavy armored tank classes. Compared to the arcane classes, the effective HP is still roughly the same. So generally if an archer get 1 shot, we can 1 shot an arcane too.

My analysis illustrates that archers are not as at risk of getting 1 shot all the time as they do have rather high effective HP. It also illustrates that if an archer were to get 1 shot, an arcane would be at equal risk of getting 1 shot. Getting purged would drop one's effective hp by about 70%. So the main point of this is that purge is not the worst proc on an end game weapon. (since archers getting 1 shot was used as an argument as to why purge is the worst proc.)

If Archers and casters are already at risk of getting 1 shot as is, getting purged would almost guarantee their death immediately. If casters are hard to kill, then archers are equally hard to kill. Although the difference is, purge procs can make them easier to kill by dropping their effective hp.

Bhavyy - Raging Tide

That's very interesting. A caster is just as likely to get 1 shot with magic damage as an archer is? (Genuinely asking if that's what your analysis shows)
Also does your effective HP include charm ticks?
Also LOL seekers..
Highest effective HP and second highest in damage. And they say they're not OP? XD

Azura - Lost City

I've never seen an endgame archer (full +12, all josd) getting one shotted while being fully buffed. I've seen them getting ganked fully buffed, and dying. I've seen wizards doing spark + a fire attack to one shot an endgame archer, and that's about it. I think anyone who is walking around with +12 and josd cannot be one shot if they are fully buffed, imo.

Zsw - Dreamweaver

Bhavyy - Raging Tide wrote: »

That's very interesting. A caster is just as likely to get 1 shot with magic damage as an archer is? (Genuinely asking if that's what your analysis shows)
Also does your effective HP include charm ticks?
Also LOL seekers..
Highest effective HP and second highest in damage. And they say they're not OP? XD

As weird as it may seem, that is exactly what the analysis shows. (If they are using the exact build I linked in the PwCalc) Characters with the same effective HP are equally likely to get 1 shot. I did do a bit of testing to verify and it does seem to hold true. (If you want, get another caster with roughly equal effective hp as you, and have people hit both of you. You guys should take roughly the same number of hits to die) A caster could switch their necklace to magical if they're 1v1ing another caster though. Although a build with higher defenses will favor cleric heals and heals from pots more than a character with higher HP, if they have the same effective HP.

Effective HP doesn't calculate charm ticks, but there is a simulator included in the spreadsheet that can simulate survival with a charm.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »

BM - 943,827; 453,890
Wizard - 565,305; 435,505
Cleric - 416,689; 421,084
Barb - 970,647; 466,516
Veno - 433,040; 450,439
Assassin - 480,122; 438,084
Psychic - 431,563; 437,482
Mystic - 547,340; 436,115
Seeker - 1,250,571; 601,405


BM - 125,532
Wizard - 117,794
Archer - 98,730
Cleric - 117,554
Barb - 286,144
Veno - 99,222
Assassin - 110,728
Psychic - 107,870
Mystic - 89,011
Seeker - 138,716

Now redo all of these taking into account proper or multiple build strategies, buff options (self and other class), skill usage options, spark skills vs no spark skills, damage output in 10 seconds with spark skills, damage output in 10 seconds without spark skills, autoattack option skills...

Essentially, if this was reality - everyone would be playing barbs and seekers, and barbs and seekers would be gods in PvP. Yet quite the opposite is what happens in reality.

Bhavyy - Raging Tide

There's more to pvp than effective HP and effective damage.
As he already mentioned this is an estimate and doesn't take into account debuffs or any survivability skills like plume shell, invoke, arcane defense, crit, gof etc.

Another thing though, seekers are really op in pvp and barbs are pretty op too. Both can pretty much 1 shot any class and both are the tankiest classes in the game.

The thing i find most interesting is that on refines alone pretty much it seems that archers can have higher effective HP than equally refined and sharded mystics and wizards who have higher base phy def and mag def because of the buffs. Archers dont get any buff that contributes to survivability really... evasion doesnt count >.>

Zsw - do you think you could make a separate thread on this with your slightly more accurate calculations when you've done them? I fear we are straying off topic.


"... Every time a rank 9 archer has a warsoul of earth/wraith gate int cape"

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

Bhavyy - Raging Tide wrote: »

There's more to pvp than effective HP and effective damage.
As he already mentioned this is an estimate and doesn't take into account debuffs or any survivability skills like plume shell, invoke, arcane defense, crit, gof etc.

Another thing though, seekers are really op in pvp and barbs are pretty op too. Both can pretty much 1 shot any class and both are the tankiest classes in the game.

The thing i find most interesting is that on refines alone pretty much it seems that archers can have higher effective HP than equally refined and sharded mystics and wizards who have higher base phy def and mag def because of the buffs. Archers dont get any buff that contributes to survivability really... evasion doesnt count >.>

Zsw - do you think you could make a separate thread on this with your slightly more accurate calculations when you've done them? I fear we are straying off topic.


"... Every time a rank 9 archer has a warsoul of earth/wraith gate int cape"

Dude

it's the same **** as the 40mil lunar cape

Except it's 4 mil

???

I mean sure I can't stick anything but perfect citrines on it but it's not as if I'mma use it for pvp...

Bhavyy - Raging Tide

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Dude

it's the same **** as the 40mil lunar cape

Except it's 4 mil

???

I mean sure I can't stick anything but perfect citrines on it but it's not as if I'mma use it for pvp...

lul.. you have R9 wtf do you have a 4m cape for. Lower refines, lower stats, lower shards.

Decus - Dreamweaver

Bhavyy - Raging Tide wrote: »

lul.. you have R9 wtf do you have a 4m cape for. Lower refines, lower stats, lower shards.

Swapping for fists?

I actually like the WoE personally, due to the str bonus. I'd probably not keep it on during PvP though.

XSonOfCircex - Sanctuary

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Dude

it's the same **** as the 40mil lunar cape

Except it's 4 mil

???

I mean sure I can't stick anything but perfect citrines on it but it's not as if I'mma use it for pvp...

First, it's a difference of 2-4 in strength that you need to have not in dex, not to mention increased dex on top of it for more crit, and increased vit for hp. Plus lunar refines a lot better... If you can afford r9 there's no reason to be going around with a cape that level, even for pve, at least if you plan to do any instances that are even remotely difficult. If PVE for you just means running a bh once in a while then sure.

And a wizard genie sparking and 1 shotting is not 1 shotting since by definition spark is an attack. It just is a super awesome one...
f:cool

Anyway, a puppy is hung from a ceiling fan whenever an archer uses alacrity on someone right after they pop speed apoth. f:strive

Iyania - Heavens Tear

XSonOfCircex - Sanctuary wrote: »

Anyway, a puppy is hung from a ceiling fan whenever an archer uses alacrity on someone right after they pop speed apoth. f:strive

I never do that. I just use my buff to override their holy path/speed pot. It has less cooldown and no spark cost.

Bhavyy - Raging Tide

Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Swapping for fists?

I actually like the WoE personally, due to the str bonus. I'd probably not keep it on during PvP though.

WoE as opposed to a t2 or t3 helm that gives about 20 dex, more hp and a lower str requirement? ... You have r9, buy a decent helmet and cape. It's not as if g16 is hard to get. Archers don't need the cape for 5aps with fists do they.

Decus - Dreamweaver

Bhavyy - Raging Tide wrote: »

WoE as opposed to a t2 or t3 helm that gives about 20 dex, more hp and a lower str requirement? ... You have r9, buy a decent helmet and cape. It's not as if g16 is hard to get. Archers don't need the cape for 5aps with fists do they.

I use the g15 helm. I just meant I can see some viability =p