Conversations tone

genotypist

Hey PWI-ers, let's talk.
This forum can be both a list of bugs as well as conversation between you and PWE. We can't promise everything will be addressed precisely how you want it to, but we can promise that everything will be read. For obvious reasons, we can't divulge information on release schedules or sales. Most everything else though, are up for discussions. Let's keep it civil and have a good time.

Cheers,
Genotype

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Would it ever be possible for Blademasters to be able to use all four rank 8 weapons? The only problem I see is that it's unfair to other classes because "they get 4 but we get one" but perhaps BMs could only use one at a time, and upon selecting another weapon to use all others would become greyed out or red like when you don't meet the requirements to wield something.

Pretty please

Zanryu - Lothranis

I want to talk about what the guy above me wants to talk about!

genotypist

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Would it ever be possible for Blademasters to be able to use all four rank 8 weapons? The only problem I see is that it's unfair to other classes because "they get 4 but we get one" but perhaps BMs could only use one at a time, and upon selecting another weapon to use all others would become greyed out or red like when you don't meet the requirements to wield something.

Pretty please

Not a bad idea, and one that I'd like to see as well.
I'll be honest, the R8 system is quite set at this point and the devs are happy with how it's turned out.
As to your suggestion, that would require tech that the game doesn't have at the moment. The restriction that was decided was to limit BMs to the weapon they chose upon completing, which functionally works, but doesn't let BMs change their decision (which was an acceptable downside).

genotypist

Zanryu - Lothranis wrote: »

I want to talk about what the guy above me wants to talk about!

Is... is that because he's you?

Miugre - Heavens Tear

I'm very much a fan of this idea.

I think my question at the moment is, how does the staff plan to handle hot-button issues? Take the recent Frost hypering argument, for example. Assuming the discussion stays civil (big "if," I know) and it keeps to one thread, would it be allowed? Also, how does the staff plan to follow up on persistent issues even if they lose the spotlight for a while?

These are just things I'm curious about. In the end, as a long-time critic of the lackluster communication systems between the playerbase, PWE, and wanmei, that this has the potential to go a long way to fixing those issues. Let's make this successful.

Toomaga - Heavens Tear

genotypist wrote: »

Is... is that because he's you?

I know this is not a suggestion but did you play Final Fantasy Tactics >_>?Your signature made me remember how fun that game wasb:laugh.


Ok but on topic:

1)The ability to lock skills on the hot bars so you don't drag them off by mistake, can't tell you how many times that has happened to me, it's so annoying xD.

2)A macro for armor, so you can switch between gear sets. And if PW is interested they could even make it something you can buy in the boutique to unlock that function permanently. I would gladly pay for that at a reasonable price.

3)For barbarians, this is tall order as it is but I am sure myself and many many others would love the idea to allow barbarian transformations to be race specific. For example Tiger-->White Tiger, Panda-->Panda Form, Wolf--->Wolf. The panda was a nice start, I think it could be taken a step further.

That's all for now, just throwing some old ones out thereb:thanks.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Perhaps.


Though, to be honest I don't see how it's unfair for BMs to have all four weapons. They would have to pay 2m per weapon, and it's of the same gear tier as any of the other weapons of classes that use only one weapon to unlock all their skills. Blademasters, as it stands, can only use one path to the same effectiveness as other classes can use all of their skills. It'd be nice for what I said to be implemented, or for a revamp that allows for Blademasters to purchase all four and use them. Being stuck with one weapon on a class meant to use multiple weapons makes very little sense.

darknessofmy

Increase level cap(106-107 or more) with 5x harder then before.

Tsyn - Raging Tide

1)The ability to lock skills on the hot bars so you don't drag them off by mistake, can't tell you how many times that has happened to me, it's so annoying xD.

This is a bit off on a tangent but I'd still like to see it implemented, if possible.

I'd like to see the ability to rearrange genie skills without having to learn them in the specific order that you want them to be in, the same way you can rearrange icons on the "normal" skillbar. I'm a massive PvPer and I rearrange my genie skills... a lot. It would be convenient if I could stop wasting both time and spirit on this. XD

Tsukyini - Raging Tide

Toomaga - Heavens Tear wrote: »

1)The ability to lock skills on the hot bars so you don't drag them off by mistake, can't tell you how many times that has happened to me, it's so annoying xD.

It would also be nice for icons representing consumables to be greyed out when you run out, instead of disappearing from the bar completely.

Also there have been times when my client has crashed, and when I log back in my bars have items/genie skills completely rearranged.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Perhaps.


Though, to be honest I don't see how it's unfair for BMs to have all four weapons. They would have to pay 2m per weapon, and it's of the same gear tier as any of the other weapons of classes that use only one weapon to unlock all their skills. Blademasters, as it stands, can only use one path to the same effectiveness as other classes can use all of their skills. It'd be nice for what I said to be implemented, or for a revamp that allows for Blademasters to purchase all four and use them. Being stuck with one weapon on a class meant to use multiple weapons makes very little sense.

I have to agree with everything he said, but one thing I would like to point out is this:

The fact that a bm in 'mediocre' gear is an easy one shot to MANY classes/people even if the 'killer' has the same gear roughly as the bm, aka not quite end game gear, but still enough to one shot the bm with ease... even if they have the right marrow on, do you all feel that there is a balance issue specifically with bms in game?

My bm is by far my favorite class to play, (sadly that is only true for pve) but I and many other people on my server avoid bms like the plague for mass pvp (more so for nw, arguably a farming instance), their survivability is quite atrocious in mass pvp, once we get up close (and get up close we must to even have a chance to kill) we end up dying so fast its not even funny, I and other find it the opposite of fun being such an easy kill to others. (I know we have our magical marrow, but it seems to pail in comparison to the def levels seekers have, the deaden nerves sins have, as well as their stealth, focused mind, etc, the barbs have their real badass shields to survive a insane amount of damage, yet all a bm really has is their marrows, and well they kind of suck when so many people are opting for a range/mage class for nw, making it that much harder for a bm to live there, and actually get some points.

We can't even stun lock anymore efficiently, which so makes killing others oh so much harder. (Please do note that I am not saying its impossible for bms to kill, but it sure is ridiculously hard especially with all the people running around that can one shot 90% of the bms in game.)

Anyways to reiterate that question up there, do the devs feel that bms need a rework, since it seems they are avoided to some extent for nws?

----

One other thing I want to bring up that I know is being discussed in another thread is the fact that purify is completely and overpowered in pve/even in Nation Wars, I know its on the r8 recast weapons, which that is no guarantee but it is on the r9 on the final recast, the skill really is rather over overpowered. I guess what I am trying to get at is will ha users ever get a skill on a weapon that is equally and arguably as badass as the weapon skill purify? (I do realize we have God of Frenzy which does allow us to have huge spike damage depending on the refines of out weapon, but meh that skill seems to pale in comparison to the "PURIFY" skill on magic weapons. (Its hard enough as it is now to kill a magic class, people are definitely getting smarter about how to avoid a ha class, then they turn right around, and completely own the HA class, but when you add the purify skill on the weapon into the mix it becomes that much harder to do anything against them.)

To reiterate that too... what do you plan on doing to help balance out the purify skill for nw, perhaps will ha users get a skill that offsets the power of purify?

P.s I realize this is long, so thank you for taking time out and reading it, (assuming you did) and i for one hope you will be able to reply and give an answer on those questions i had up there.

P.S.S... I realize this second question may have been answered already on that thread, it can be easy to miss when the thread move so fast, regardless I do apologize for the extra work if you already answered it.

Slivaf
The "Self proclaimed" Legendary Blademaster

genotypist

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I'm very much a fan of this idea.

I think my question at the moment is, how does the staff plan to handle hot-button issues? Take the recent Frost hypering argument, for example. Assuming the discussion stays civil (big "if," I know) and it keeps to one thread, would it be allowed? Also, how does the staff plan to follow up on persistent issues even if they lose the spotlight for a while?

These are just things I'm curious about. In the end, as a long-time critic of the lackluster communication systems between the playerbase, PWE, and wanmei, that this has the potential to go a long way to fixing those issues. Let's make this successful.

I'd say the recent matter of using Hyper Exp in FCC is fairly indicative of how we'd like to address player issues. We'll be honest as much as possible. I'm fairly sure there'll be those who won't accept our answers at face value, but that's to be expected.

Discussion is always allowed. V4liance has made that blatantly clear during his time as CM, I'd say. However, if an easy fix can make everybody happy, we'd already have done so. The crux of the matter is game functionality always has multiple angles to take into consideration, because no matter what we do, we will always upset some segment of our playerbase (you can't satisfy everybody all the time). So in the case of Hypers in FCC, that decision has a time and a place (aka after careful deliberations).

Regarding following up on persistent issues. I can't say we have any one approach. We deal with problems as they arise. Sometimes an issue can't be fixed the way we want, so it's unavoidable. Rubber-banding for instance (though to be fair, if you played PWI in 2008, you'll see that this has been alleviated quite a lot). In other cases, discussions with our developers have convinced us that it's better to stick with the status quo.

Of course, sometimes a bug or longstanding gripe does fall through the cracks. We're trying to change our approach to discussions with players so that those are addressed.

genotypist

Toomaga - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I know this is not a suggestion but did you play Final Fantasy Tactics >_>?Your signature made me remember how fun that game wasb:laugh.

Yes! Brownie points to you for noticing. There's quite a lively modding community for that game, both on the Playstation and the PsP, if you're ever interested in giving it another go.

Toomaga - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Ok but on topic:

1)The ability to lock skills on the hot bars so you don't drag them off by mistake, can't tell you how many times that has happened to me, it's so annoying xD.

2)A macro for armor, so you can switch between gear sets. And if PW is interested they could even make it something you can buy in the boutique to unlock that function permanently. I would gladly pay for that at a reasonable price.

3)For barbarians, this is tall order as it is but I am sure myself and many many others would love the idea to allow barbarian transformations to be race specific. For example Tiger-->White Tiger, Panda-->Panda Form, Wolf--->Wolf. The panda was a nice start, I think it could be taken a step further.

That's all for now, just throwing some old ones out thereb:thanks.

Ah, unfortunately we're not trying to solicit suggestions for PWI in this forum. That's where the suggestions forum comes in. The Suggestions tag is misleading, and I apologize for that. I'm only soliciting suggestions on how we can raise the level of discussions, deal with bugs, as well as approaches to this particular Quality Corner subforum specifically.

genotypist

Tsukyini - Raging Tide wrote: »

Also there have been times when my client has crashed, and when I log back in my bars have items/genie skills completely rearranged.

This seems really odd. Definitely not an intended behavior, though I wonder if we can't address the crash directly (so the re-arrangements don't happen).

Can you get me more info on how this rearranging bars occur? V4liance has a submissions guideline you can fill out in the stickies that'll really help me track it down and make sure it doesn't happen again.

The__Sun - Dreamweaver

TW scheduling is messed up and the 2nd time slot at the moment is on Monday at 8pm, but it should be Saturday at 2pm as it was previous to the latest update. Last week we were told it would be fixed for this last TW week before map reset but it has not, and many people missed out on TW because of it.

Toomaga - Heavens Tear

genotypist wrote: »

This seems really odd. Definitely not an intended behavior, though I wonder if we can't address the crash directly (so the re-arrangements don't happen).

Can you get me more info on how this rearranging bars occur? V4liance has a submissions guideline you can fill out in the stickies that'll really help me track it down and make sure it doesn't happen again.

Oh fair enough, and yes I have seen the modding community there a few times, I might come and give the game a go againb:chuckle.

DoodsWH - Sanctuary

Oh Oh what about the r9 dagger display texture that is "missing" honestly if i could choose the black look that my laptop has isntead of the white my desktop that would be sweet. if those arent really what they looked like, what do they really look like? should i post this seperatly in the quality section? b:laugh

genotypist

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I have to agree with everything he said, but one thing I would like to point out is this:

The fact that a bm in 'mediocre' gear is an easy one shot to MANY classes/people even if the 'killer' has the same gear roughly as the bm, aka not quite end game gear, but still enough to one shot the bm with ease... even if they have the right marrow on, do you all feel that there is a balance issue specifically with bms in game?

I'm not on the game design team, so I would honestly be lying if I spoke for them in this matter. However, I can say a couple things that are universally true:

1) In a class-based game where the classes aren't all carbon-copy replicas of each other, 1v1 encounters are simply never going to be balanced. Even 2v2 encounters are really unfair depending on class compositions. Looking at the PvP content we provide (TW, Theater of Blood, NW, etc), it's obvious to see that the goal has always been to entice collaborative play.

2) When you have more than 1 class, by definition you're going to have a best and a worst in any given metric. Buffing the lowest class simply demotes the second-lowest into that unenviable last position. Granted, the delta shouldn't be so huge that it's unfair, and by your assertion, BMs are in this easily one-shot-able category (an opinion that I don't agree with, to be frank). In such a case, bring up specific cases. We can discuss specific cases using logs as evidence much better than generalizations.

genotypist

The__Sun - Dreamweaver wrote: »

TW scheduling is messed up and the 2nd time slot at the moment is on Monday at 8pm, but it should be Saturday at 2pm as it was previous to the latest update. Last week we were told it would be fixed for this last TW week before map reset but it has not, and many people missed out on TW because of it.

Got it, The... Sun.
Do me a favor and make this issue its own thread using V4liance's submission guidelines. That'll make sure it won't get lost in this thread. We'll look into it.

genotypist

DoodsWH - Sanctuary wrote: »

Oh Oh what about the r9 dagger display texture that is "missing" honestly if i could choose the black look that my laptop has isntead of the white my desktop that would be sweet. if those arent really what they looked like, what do they really look like? should i post this seperatly in the quality section? b:laugh

This is a known issue. We're looking into it, thanks.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

genotypist wrote: »

I'm not on the game design team, so I would honestly be lying if I spoke for them in this matter. However, I can say a couple things that are universally true:

1) In a class-based game where the classes aren't all carbon-copy replicas of each other, 1v1 encounters are simply never going to be balanced. Even 2v2 encounters are really unfair depending on class compositions. Looking at the PvP content we provide (TW, Theater of Blood, NW, etc), it's obvious to see that the goal has always been to entice collaborative play.

2) When you have more than 1 class, by definition you're going to have a best and a worst in any given metric. Buffing the lowest class simply demotes the second-lowest into that unenviable last position. Granted, the delta shouldn't be so huge that it's unfair, and by your assertion, BMs are in this easily one-shot-able category (an opinion that I don't agree with, to be frank). In such a case, bring up specific cases. We can discuss specific cases using logs as evidence much better than generalizations.

It is absolutely based on gear, but I do guess I was exaggerating a bit back there, but still, I don't see many bms in nation wars at all. So many people have left bms behind in favor of other classes for nw. I do understand what you said about the aspect that it may seem unfair for certain classes in a mass pvp setting. However I do still have the opinion that blademasters shields really are quite useless in mass pvp, it can really leave them open for a world of pain in nw/tw especially with all the archers and seekers running around, we use altar marrow magical to protect from all the mages in pvp that can really HURT, a seeker or archer sees that, and boom we get hurt quite a bit from the physical end, but again that depends on their weapon. The balance of power really seems to be in the favor of ranged/mage classes in mass pvp, I know I struggle to kill them, while they can easily gang up on me when I have to get up close to do anything, while they stay at a safe range, and its more... uncommon for them to have to deal with more than one person on them.

One thing I notice even with altar marrow magical demon, the hits from mages still average somewhere around 5k+ per hit, that along with the damage from physical attacks, I go down quite ridiculously fast, but again it all depends on their gear/my gear/hp, a charm etc, I don't generally have this problem on my other 2 ha classes that I have nwed with, don't get me wrong I still die, but it feels oh so much more relaxing on them, and from what I have watched from sins... most seem to be at ease with dying, as they can still kill quite fast, telestun, spark, and their hits far outdamage a bm in very similar gear, it really is far easier for a sin to keep up the chi to pull off that combo, albeit it is easier for many people to survive that tactic from many sins, but still they do have an easier time killing others.

I do realize there is a plethora of things to take into consideration when trying to make sure things are balanced, but this does not change the fact that.. Nation wars just does NOT seem appealing at all on my bm, i'll stick with other classes for that. (Hell I know of a bm on my server that 'quit' nw on his bm, and he nor I are that horrible in pvp, he ended up on a psy at like level 75 I think it was, and he was getting just as much points on his psy as he was his bm... so yea... I am so not the only one that is finding playing a BM in nation wars to be quite lackluster. I can't and will not give an exact number, because obviously not all bms feel the same way, but really I do rarely see any bms at all in nation wars.

EDIT: I guess what I am trying to say is this, a bm in somewhat decent gear like +5ish g16ish gear gets absolutely punished (slightly exaggerating, but still... its not fun being easily killed before we even know where the attack is coming from and even when we do we are often dead before we even get one hit in) while all the other classes seem to do quite well with similar gear. (Speaking of nation wars, they are indeed more than fine for any other instance.) edit2: It just seems unfair that bms do not really have the means to survive to even attempt to kill others in mass pvp, barbs have their shields, sins their stealth, and seekers ranged attacks actually do some rather decent damage, bms really have no other choice but to get close to do some rather decent damage to others, which in turns really leaves them open to an onslaught of attacks from others both physical, and magical.

KozyStrike - Archosaur

when coin reward for dq71 will be fixed?

i looked into forums and found this by this date 11-14-2012, 10:07 AM

v4liance wrote: »

Hey everyone,

We know you're unhappy with this change, and I'm going to be looking into it.

We'll be speaking with the developers to get more information on the DQ item price decrease.

I'm really sorry about surprising you guys like this, and I'll do my best to keep you better informed in the future.

- Val

will it be fixed?
i miss grinding

ovenusarmanio

KozyStrike - Archosaur wrote: »

when coin reward for dq71 will be fixed?

i looked into forums and found this by this date 11-14-2012, 10:07 AM




will it be fixed?
i miss grinding

It got replaced by a coin farming quest, as stated by v4liance in that thread.

Here are the quotes for it:

v4liance wrote: »

Hey folks,

New update:

We've been working with the developers to create an alternative method of coin farming for low to mid level players, and we're hoping to have this new system available before too long.

No promises on when this will be out, but I'm very hopeful that it will be live within 4-6 weeks.

Again, I'll keep you all posted as I learn more.

- Val

You should try out the Jolly Old Jones Bounty Order quests, and be sure to report any bugs from them. I've been hearing it's pretty buggy.

genotypist

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

[Intelligent BM feedback]

I get what you mean Slivaf, and I wish I were in a position to be able to give you insightful answers on the matter. I'll bring it up at the next opportunity with those who have a say in the matter. Though to be perfectly honest, they'd take the feedback with a grain of salt because they have tools and better data than I do (though they did say that they won't ignore it).

genotypist

KozyStrike - Archosaur wrote: »

when coin reward for dq71 will be fixed?

i looked into forums and found this by this date 11-14-2012, 10:07 AM

will it be fixed?
i miss grinding

Hmmm. I seem to remember that Jones' new quests (in the latest content patch on the 20th) was supposed to make up for the lousy coin rewards. That was the intention anyways. We couldn't revert the change, but we did try to make up for it in other ways.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

genotypist wrote: »

I get what you mean Slivaf, and I wish I were in a position to be able to give you insightful answers on the matter. I'll bring it up at the next opportunity with those who have a say in the matter. Though to be perfectly honest, they'd take the feedback with a grain of salt because they have tools and better data than I do (though they did say that they won't ignore it).

^^ Thank you, and I do realize it may not change at all, despite my feelings on the matter, which I am obviously not the only one feeling that way while playing a blademaster in nation wars, still I do appreciate you giving it your best to alleviate my fears/concerns about bms being arguably the weakest in mass pvp settings.

Regardless of what happens with that, thanks for taking the time to hear my... worries about the blademaster class in nation wars, because as I edited in that previous post, they really are quite awesome in any other instance, except maybe territory wars, but in tw, its more or less fine as bm's are suppose to be kamikaze to help out their team, not to mention there are no tokens to be gained in TW. lol

genotypist

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

I know double posting is the bane of all evil but I wanted to make this it's own post in case you'd like me to move it to it's own thread. I have noticed a LOT of the newer quests place quest items in your inventory. The problem with this is that some things just don't work if you're quest box is full. Is this an intentional design decision and we can expect that for all future quests? For example the punica fruit and perfect flesh in the jolly old jones orders, or the little mask thingies in AEU, or fairy box keys from BH, which is just a quest item to open fairy boxes.

Excellent point. I don't think we've considered this before.
Can you get me a write-up separately, with its own repro steps? I'd like to quickly run through it and I'll get an answer for you.

Blue__Lycan - Sanctuary

Just curious.. what do you guys consider an easy fix to a hard one? It seems like your guy's power over the game is different then I'd expect. Per example: I would think changing the DQ item prices back would be easier then making new quests entirely for coins.

Don't get me wrong I'm not ungreatful, I'm just really not sure what you guys would actually be able to do.

Also I'd like to ask why the Barb/Veno form thread hasn't had a comment on it yet being as popular a topic as it is. I mean if you can't give an accurate answer yet that's fine with me but can you at least tell us you saw the thread? Really though I'm really glad you guys decided to add this forum.

Sizzer - Raging Tide

Blue__Lycan - Sanctuary wrote: »

I mean if you can't give an accurate answer yet that's fine with me but can you at least tell us you saw the thread? Really though I'm really glad you guys decided to add this forum.

Well they've said they cannot answer all the topic's but they will make sure every thread will be read.f:sneaky

Decus - Dreamweaver

Just want to bump this to the top as it was buried. (Maybe a sticky is in order?)