R8 fist or R8 axe?

Rubybeard - Archosaur

I will be 100 soon, and i got 200k rep ready for R8 weapon, just wondering which 1 is worth to take since bms can only choose 1 R8 weapon right.

So which 1 you guys think? fist or axe?

b:shockedb:shocked

CapnK - Sanctuary

Rank 8 fists are bad compared to what's currently available, namely relatively easy to get G15/G16 fists. Ignore them.

Likewise Rank 8 axe is decent but outclassed by G15/G16/rank 9 stuff. Although it can get Spirit Blackhole which can potentially be dangerous in mass pvp.

Rank 8 pole is a good choice because it can also get Spirit Blackhole, giving you a purge option without it being on your axes.

Rank 8 sword isn't bad, it's the strongest sword available to us that can get God of Flame. Although again G16 beats it in base damage.

Saethos - Raging Tide

Spirit Blackhole on an axe is good minus that it can't proc on anything that already debuffs. Si it can't proc on HF, fissure, Aeolian, Ocean's Edge, Draw Blood, you know, all the important skills. It's nice to have though.

I have a r8r axe which has defense levels. This allows me to remain as a threat with my debuffs, amps, and stuns, but it keeps me alive rather well. I keep an attack level axe on my shortcut bar and quickly switch when I need to kill. It's a good strategy, so I would recomend axe so you can tank while doing your job pretty well with fissure and HF.

Fists are...I've seen a BM with r8r fists with defense levels and interval and he uses them in PvP for chi gaining while staying safe. It works well for him, but I don't think I'd ever will myself to do it. He also carries t3 attack level fists.

Sword...I don't recommend. There aren't many applications for what you can get on the sword.

Poleblade is nice if it has purge since you can use Farstrike with it, but you can also Drake's Ray with an axe, so it's ultimately up to you.

Personal preference: Axe; Defense levels.

Loshon - Archosaur

I chose r8 sword, but that's because I wanted to be unique. but yeah, if you can get spirit blackhole on the r8r spear, that would be best way to go. procs helluva lot more than the monarch spear and damage is decent.. not g16, but the possible uber purge would prove invaluable in tw and nw.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Loshon - Archosaur wrote: »

I chose r8 sword, but that's because I wanted to be unique. but yeah, if you can get spirit blackhole on the r8r spear, that would be best way to go. procs helluva lot more than the monarch spear and damage is decent.. not g16, but the possible uber purge would prove invaluable in tw and nw.

Unfortunately it's not invaluable in TW and NW. It's group PvP - you're better off CCing, Amping, and doing Damage (and tanking!).

1v1 its nice.

Overall, 98% of the time you're better off just working to kill your target than doing lower damage and praying for a purge.

I did some long term tests, the proc seems to be about 10% most of the time. Sometimes as high as 20%, and at other times as low as 1% 6 of my tests and ended up at once in 80-100 swings, yuck. I kinda just stopped counting swings and watched the clock at that point.

It's a neat toy, and if you get a lucky proc - good for you. But you're setting yourself up to do less damage, take more damage, and you're focusing away from your job of CC, Amping, and Damage when you should have an Archer, Sin, or Veno worrying about that.

Bottom line - It's not dependable, at all. If you end up refining and sharding it, it will still never do as much damage as some random N3 Axe.

Axe vs Pole:

In 10 seconds, the pole hits 10 times. The axe hits 9 times.
Axe has one more aoe that does not have a carrier attack that is proc-able.
Pole has farstrike.


Most will go for pole for that extra hit every 10 seconds. I went with axe for versatility so I can still use my axe skills and do a good stun lock while swinging away with the purge axe.

Zarkin_Baxil - Raging Tide

I have r9r axe and r8r pole. The pole has defence levels on it, I was going to try and reroll for purge but I decided to keep defence levels. If I dig the flag in NW I switch to the pole for more defence. If you aren't going r9 then go with r8r axe with defence levels. If you are going r9 at some point then get the pole, if not get the axe.

Rubybeard - Archosaur

Zarkin_Baxil - Raging Tide wrote: »

I have r9r axe and r8r pole. The pole has defence levels on it, I was going to try and reroll for purge but I decided to keep defence levels. If I dig the flag in NW I switch to the pole for more defence. If you aren't going r9 then go with r8r axe with defence levels. If you are going r9 at some point then get the pole, if not get the axe.

Yep i have decided, since i am not much a cash buyer, so i am going r8 axe, and just gonna save up some money to get g15/g16 fist/ claw

thanks for all the replies guys b:laugh

Rubybeard - Archosaur

CapnK - Sanctuary wrote: »

Rank 8 fists are bad compared to what's currently available, namely relatively easy to get G15/G16 fists. Ignore them.

Likewise Rank 8 axe is decent but outclassed by G15/G16/rank 9 stuff. Although it can get Spirit Blackhole which can potentially be dangerous in mass pvp.

Rank 8 pole is a good choice because it can also get Spirit Blackhole, giving you a purge option without it being on your axes.

Rank 8 sword isn't bad, it's the strongest sword available to us that can get God of Flame. Although again G16 beats it in base damage.

but r8 fist have more damage comparing to g15 fist/claw without refine right?

Loshon - Archosaur

I did some long term tests, the proc seems to be about 10% most of the time. Sometimes as high as 20%, and at other times as low as 1% 6 of my tests and ended up at once in 80-100 swings, yuck. I kinda just stopped counting swings and watched the clock at that point.

I didn't realize the proc rate was that low... Interesting. I suppose r8r axe is better.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Loshon - Archosaur wrote: »

I didn't realize the proc rate was that low... Interesting. I suppose r8r axe is better.

It's be said either 15 or 20%. When I first got it, it was 1 in 5 swings. Then I used it in NW and it never proc'ed. So I went back and did some longer tests, and the statistics went down. People with R8r purge pole report about the same, save my exceedingly ridiculous bad luck with the "never procs" trials.

CapnK - Sanctuary

Rubybeard - Archosaur wrote: »

but r8 fist have more damage comparing to g15 fist/claw without refine right?

Yes that's true. When you start refining G15 beats R8 and still loses to R8 recast. G16 blows them all out of the water.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Rubybeard - Archosaur wrote: »

Yep i have decided, since i am not much a cash buyer, so i am going r8 axe, and just gonna save up some money to get g15/g16 fist/ claw

That's what I did and it was great for bridging tt90 green to Morai Axes. Now they're useless. Considering G15, G16, Morai, and R9, r9r, r9t3 all out perform it its just a temporary axe.

Rubybeard - Archosaur wrote: »

but r8 fist have more damage comparing to g15 fist/claw without refine right?

Without refine, yes. With refine, no (depending on adds). R8 and r8r both refine poorly but have large bases. However G15 quickly out paces r8 and even out paces r8r by +9/+10 with decent adds.

The other huge consideration is r8 doesn't come with -int. R8r can get -int but it's something like 1:250 odds and won't happen. G15 will out dd both usually just because of the 25% aps difference between 4.0 and 5.0

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

It's be said either 15 or 20%. When I first got it, it was 1 in 5 swings. Then I used it in NW and it never proc'ed. So I went back and did some longer tests, and the statistics went down. People with R8r purge pole report about the same, save my exceedingly ridiculous bad luck with the "never procs" trials.

I think people assumed purge proc rates were similar to zerks so SS=15% then purge must = 15% and GoF=20% so Spirit Blackhole=20% but thats wrong. The archer forums have done a ton of research and found the purge rates to be somewhere between 8-10% for purge and 12-15% for Spirit Blackhole.

~~~

If I got to do it over again I'd get pole. For these reasons:
Fists are... ****. We had someone with 2 x -int chest and so they could be 5.0 r8r fists and they got 26 attack levels. Pretty godlike stats, yet they were still only about as good as G15 claws, and not upgradeable. Btw, +10 r8r fists and +10 G15 are only about +4 G16 claws. G16 way out DD's any other option.
Axe: As stated an aoe purge would be amazing. It also would surprise an enemy because they wouldn't suspect your axes to purge them. But as stated above the axes won't purge with any skill that applies a different debuff, and axes are only used with skills and 90% of them apply debuffs.
Sword: ... Low dd and we never use a sword. Just not alot of opportunities.
Pole: I really only use Pole for two reasons now, anyways. Purging and a single ranged attack. But I'm stuck using tt99 Monarch Spear for my purge. It'd be nice upgrading both the DD of my pole and the rate of its purge.